Regarding Hotel Deaths

[The Snark]

Some food for thought. The following information is from eyewitness reporting of myself and a partner.

Three business were observed. One was a large established condominium, one a newly built resort, and one a large boutique hotel.

All three businesses were approached on multiple occasions by 'service companies' that primarily supply institutional chemicals. These chemicals are touted by the companies to cover virtually every need in a hotelier, short and long term style business. The chemicals offered run the gamut from paints and finishes to every kind of cleaning agent to drain cleaners to water treatment to septic tank treatment etc.

The chemicals are offered, sold, by sales pitches. That is exactly what it implies. The common information given, paraphrased, runs along the lines of 'you can use this for cleaning chairs, carpet, walls' and so on.

The training in the proper use of these chemicals is minimal and not especially professional. The persons being trained, housekeeping staff and managers are not notably savvy in chemical use. The training for personal protection during use is at best cursory. Where a chemical should and should not be used is also cursory or non existent.

The actual content of the chemicals sold is rarely mentioned. No Material Safety Data Sheets (MSDS) are given. What literature for usage that is supplied is mostly rudimentary. Use precautions are rudimentary or non existent. Records of what chemicals are bought and where they are used are not normally kept.

One instance of note I witnessed was a powerful insecticidal agent being used to clean furniture including the table surfaces in a restaurant.

PS I would add, the difficulty of getting the real info of what chemicals are is not limited to Thailand. Web surf your common pesticides like ant and roach killer, go to well known companies sites, then try to find what the active ingredients are inside the colorful containers.

Edited May 27, 2011 by The Snark

[deejah]

on top of that

i was shocked to learn

a few years back

they use asbestos in new buildings in thailand

i think they are probably still doing this

absolutely shocking!!!

[happyrobert]

Snark

you

might

be

on

to

something

here

I

think.

[travelmann]

The problem is NOBODY CARES or will do anything about it.

[moe666]

Where is your link to the actual deaths, more BS to cloud the actual details.

[craigt3365]

Where is your link to the actual deaths, more BS to cloud the actual details.

The various "hotel" deaths are easily Googled. Several articles here on TV.

I don't see the OP as trying to cloud the details. Just reporting his personal experiences.

[justcruisin]

Where is your link to the actual deaths, more BS to cloud the actual details.

The OP did not mention any deaths.

As a previous certified chemical dispenser myself in the Aviation Agricultural business I see many chemicals in Thailand that have been banned in most western countries still being used here.God forbid they dont have any 245-T left.(Chlordiform another bad one)

The problem is two fold.

(1)banned chemicals still being manafactured for the Asian market coupled with absoloutely no training or use of MSDS's.

(2) The greed of western chemical companies to continue manafacturing and supplying chemicals that have been proven to be

carcineogenic or toxic to humans and banned in the west and then market in countries with lax laws.No comprehension of the facts.

Anyone can decide they will be a chemical applicator here with no background or idea what they are doing.

The same applies to nearly all trades here in the LOS,electrician,plumber etc. with zero capability or skills.

The recent deaths of tourists attests to this.

[deejah]

pure evil

[slapout]

A coup;e of the pest control companies in CM still had Chlordane in stock, last year. They stocked up several years ago when they heard it was banned from import. When you watch the mixing of chemical concentrate by some of these people, you just shake your head and stay far away from the drift.

[llso]

I think I have mentioned this before. I belive we are seeing and is the beginning of a cancer epidemic in Thailand. I know of several Thai's usually older family members who have already died from cancer. I remeber a few years ago at her house in Issan there were some active termites in the floor above the bathroom. My brother in law bought some reallt potent insecticide and with a plastic bag as a glove and a handkerchef as a mask began to spray it on the ceiling with the poison rolling down his arm and the liquid raining down on the basket of toothbrushes below. I absolutelly fraked out and went to the corner store and bought all new toothbrushes and threw the contaminated ones outsomewhere where they wouldn't be reclaimed. They all thought I was crazy Falang and said just needed to rinse the toothbrushes off. I can only wonder how thgis type of contamination and others happens here( I am currently in Thailand) every single day!

LL

[GreenSnapper]

The problem here is the total lack of education. Not just in the poor classes, but also in the upper classes.

[The Snark]

Where is your link to the actual deaths, more BS to cloud the actual details.

I reported no deaths. However, I am protecting myself, my partner, and three close friends of hers. I have eye-witnessed several incidents including two typical anaphylactic reactions and when one certain cleaning agent was being used, all three maids at one establishment had chronic rash and itching on arms, face and eyes, even though they wore gloves.

[The Snark]

Please allow me to mention some other tidbits.

Gasoline:

The complete warning used to read, "For use as a motor fuel only. Contains lead." It now just reads, "For use as a motor fuel only."

The complete warning actually reads, "For use at a motor fuel only. Avoid skin and eye contact. In case of contact, flush with clear water for 15 minutes. Children and pregnant women must remain 50 feet from where fuel is being dispensed. Contains carcinogens. Can cause birth defects and developmental debilities. Cannot be made non toxic."

The petroleum industry has lobbied so strongly for so many years against the complete label it has been trimmed to that vague statement. They still dispute to this day that it causes cancer because, although all lab animal tests have found cancers, the industry argues those tests may not apply to humans.

No chemical is ever tested and proven safe during a lifetime of exposure. Almost all toxic chemicals are assumed safe as long as used a certain way, until proven beyond question to not be safe. DDT was touted as safe. Plutonium in drinking water was considered acceptable at one time and place.

Burning household plastics produces carbon monoxide, hydrogen chloride (a powerful acid if it contacts mucus membranes or lungs) a cyanide compound and Poly Chlorinated Biphenyls. (PCBs, one of the most toxic chemicals known). The petroleum industry controls the warnings given regarding the disposal of plastics.

All household chemical warning labels assume the chemical will never be mixed with any other chemical. Cyanide, liquid and gas, chloroform, formaldehyde, carbon tetrachloride and a vast number of other extremely hazardous or deadly chemicals can be produced by combining relatively harmless household chemicals.

The bottom line is the opposite of what the media pumps in our faces day after day: Assume it is going to damage your health and avoid it or learn just what the heck it is you have in your environment. It is very easy to see how touts pushing chemicals in poorly educated third world countries can cause a few deaths now and then.

[IMA_FARANG]

I know there are that sort of problems here in Thailad....not only with those type of chemicals but with other products also.

It's easy to blame the Thais for all the problems...and I agree with some of that.

By pure coincidence yesterday my Thai wife was watching a show on Thai television here in Bangkok.

They had a segment about many "beauty"products commonly used in Thailand. It was all in Thai, which I can speak only a few words of at best, but they showed pictures and even samples (i.e. bottles and tubes with English lettering on them)of these products.

many of these products are being sold in Thailand and other arts of Asia, even though they are restricted or even banned in other countries...Europe included.

What particularly caught my attention was that many of these poducts were being marketed and promoted in Thailand by companies based in Europe...with absolutely no attempt by those companies to give any warning to Thai consumers that these products might be dangerous...much less that these products had been banned for sale except through a doctor's prescription in Europe, the U.S., or Canada and Australia.

The female Thai presenter kept pointing out that this product which could be bought in Thailand without a prescription could not be bought in one of those countries without a doctor's prescription.

Now you can say that proves how "stupid" Thai are if you want to...but doesn't it also prove how mercenary the companies in Europe and those other countries are to market them here in Thailand? Maybe, just maybe, the Thais can be excused by their lack of knowledge of the nature of these products. But how do you excuse the companies hat DO KNOW the nature of what they are selling here in Thailand...but seem to be more concerned wih making a profit then customer safety? To me, that is just pure greed.

But then Capitalisim is the wave of the future, isn't it?

[The Snark]

I know there are that sort of problems here in Thailad....not only with those type of chemicals but with other products also.

It's easy to blame the Thais for all the problems...and I agree with some of that.

By pure coincidence yesterday my Thai wife was watching a show on Thai television here in Bangkok.

They had a segment about many "beauty"products commonly used in Thailand. It was all in Thai, which I can speak only a few words of at best, but they showed pictures and even samples (i.e. bottles and tubes with English lettering on them)of these products.

many of these products are being sold in Thailand and other arts of Asia, even though they are restricted or even banned in other countries...Europe included.

What particularly caught my attention was that many of these poducts were being marketed and promoted in Thailand by companies based in Europe...with absolutely no attempt by those companies to give any warning to Thai consumers that these products might be dangerous...much less that these products had been banned for sale except through a doctor's prescription in Europe, the U.S., or Canada and Australia.

The female Thai presenter kept pointing out that this product which could be bought in Thailand without a prescription could not be bought in one of those countries without a doctor's prescription.

Now you can say that proves how "stupid" Thai are if you want to...but doesn't it also prove how mercenary the companies in Europe and those other countries are to market them here in Thailand? Maybe, just maybe, the Thais can be excused by their lack of knowledge of the nature of these products. But how do you excuse the companies hat DO KNOW the nature of what they are selling here in Thailand...but seem to be more concerned wih making a profit then customer safety? To me, that is just pure greed.

But then Capitalisim is the wave of the future, isn't it?

Exactly. A perfect case in point is when a huge chemical company in America found one of it's flagship products banned in America. The next year and for 3 consecutive years after, the production of the chemical increased. They were simply selling it overseas. Over the years production has continued, sometimes increasing. DDT is still produced by that wonderful company and sold in various countries who don't know (or care). And the kicker is many countries don't require warning labels at all on it and similar products when sold in large quantities. The warning labels are the responsibility of the buyers.

As another example, a very toxic pesticide, DDVP, has been hovering on the same edge of oblivion since 1981. (No pest strips etc). Although the EPA has enough data to ban it, the producing companies continue to fight the ban and produce the stuff. One of the common commercials: a happy looking baby in a crib with a strip hanging from the ceiling above it. Now recognized in the US as misleading and a clear health hazard, similar ads can be found all over the world to this present day.

Read about the DDVP debacle here: http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?chanID=sa004&articleID=000EDC34-3CC0-14C0-AFE483414B7F4945

Edited May 31, 2011 by The Snark

[The Snark]

I needed to add this one.

QUESTION! What is the most powerful contact pesticide known today? A bug spray so powerful that no critter has ever developed a resistance to it!

A: Distilled water with 1-2% dish washing detergent. Drowns all exoskeletal animals instantly. Spray liberally as required. (Sorry Raid, but you can't come close to its kill factor.)

Edited May 31, 2011 by The Snark