Learning A Martial Art In Pattaya

[Gerry290]

I agree with Krav Maga being just thuggery

How much Krav Maga training have you done to come to the conclusion that " I agree with Krav Maga being just thuggery " ?

[englishinsiam]

I agree with Krav Maga being just thuggery

How much Krav Maga training have you done to come to the conclusion that " I agree with Krav Maga being just thuggery " ?

I've been to seminars in Spain and UK and have friends/associates that train in it.

[Gerry290]

I agree with Krav Maga being just thuggery

How much Krav Maga training have you done to come to the conclusion that " I agree with Krav Maga being just thuggery " ?

I've been to seminars in Spain and UK and have friends/associates that train in it.

So what is "thuggish" about Krav Maga then?

What we do at Krav Maga Pattaya is certainly not "thuggish". It is effective civilian orientated Krav Maga and we also work on modern versions of Fairbairn WWII type Combatives and lots of strategy, drills, and Reality self Defense training inspired by Geoff Thompson too.

I am a British Combat Association member instructor.

We may do full contact drills on occasion e.g. "Animal Day" drills, "milling" drills, full contact baton and knife defenses, but there is nothing "thuggish" about that type of training, it is good street savvy reality self defense training. (The full on stuff is consensual for those who want to do the harder training, beginners keep it light of course).

In fact your WT Sifu here in Pattaya is a knows Geoff Thompson well and translated his books into German. Your Sifu likes the Geoff Thompson approach too. ;-)

And I am a big fan of Wing Chun too, I like that "Blitz Defense" that GM Kanzspec created for a quick self defense solution. I think Blitz Defense and Krav Maga are very similar. It is all great stuff. Train and enjoy what you do! :-)

Krav Maga is nothing more than strikes, punches, knees, elbows, and come to think of it just about every other martial art is made of strikes, punches, kicks etc etc. There is nothing special about Krav Maga, it is just another way of training for street self defense.

To be honest, it is the "individual" and their combative mindset that will win on the street, not the style of martial art.

There are plenty of drills of training the way we do Krav Maga training here in Pattaya on youtube. All the stuff we do is focused on live contact application, e.g gear up and try it out with contact and speed. We do not overly focus on perfect "technique" , we train Krav Maga more in the idea of "hit the bad guy, first, fast, and escape"

Our training clips going back several years are on www.youtube.com/kravmagathailand

I am always interested in positive discussion on self defense, but not in slagging matches etc.

Cheers

Gerry

[Awohalitsiktoli]

I agree with Krav Maga being just thuggery

How much Krav Maga training have you done to come to the conclusion that " I agree with Krav Maga being just thuggery " ?

I've been to seminars in Spain and UK and have friends/associates that train in it.

So what is "thuggish" about Krav Maga then?

What we do at Krav Maga Pattaya is certainly not "thuggish". It is effective civilian orientated Krav Maga and we also work on modern versions of Fairbairn WWII type Combatives and lots of strategy, drills, and Reality self Defense training inspired by Geoff Thompson too.

I am a British Combat Association member instructor.

We may do full contact drills on occasion e.g. "Animal Day" drills, "milling" drills, full contact baton and knife defenses, but there is nothing "thuggish" about that type of training, it is good street savvy reality self defense training. (The full on stuff is consensual for those who want to do the harder training, beginners keep it light of course).

In fact your WT Sifu here in Pattaya is a knows Geoff Thompson well and translated his books into German. Your Sifu likes the Geoff Thompson approach too. ;-)

And I am a big fan of Wing Chun too, I like that "Blitz Defense" that GM Kanzspec created for a quick self defense solution. I think Blitz Defense and Krav Maga are very similar. It is all great stuff. Train and enjoy what you do! :-)

Krav Maga is nothing more than strikes, punches, knees, elbows, and come to think of it just about every other martial art is made of strikes, punches, kicks etc etc. There is nothing special about Krav Maga, it is just another way of training for street self defense.

To be honest, it is the "individual" and their combative mindset that will win on the street, not the style of martial art.

There are plenty of drills of training the way we do Krav Maga training here in Pattaya on youtube. All the stuff we do is focused on live contact application, e.g gear up and try it out with contact and speed. We do not overly focus on perfect "technique" , we train Krav Maga more in the idea of "hit the bad guy, first, fast, and escape"

Our training clips going back several years are on www.youtube.com/kravmagathailand

I am always interested in positive discussion on self defense, but not in slagging matches etc.

Cheers

Gerry

Have any of you KM guys wanted to rent jet skis across from Royal Garden Mall? (Read the other thread on jet ski rip offs). That might be interesting Perhaps strikes, punches, knees, elbows and "teeth" might persuade them not to rip you off! But, of course, I am joking Joking aside, have any of you actually had to use KM in a real street fight? What happened?

[Gerry290]

have any of you actually had to use KM in a real street fight? What happened?

Yes used KM more than once, and I still got my good looks.

But there was a problem in using Krav Maga on the street because I did karate/kickboxing since 1984 too (I'm a 4th dan too) and anytime I used Krav Maga I can never figure out did I actually knock the attacker out with a Krav Maga right cross or a kickboxing right cross?!?!!

OK I am joking and sort of not joking either on the bigger picture...

Point is this to sort of quote Bruce Lee who said something like " a punch is just a punch and a kick is just a kick "...

[medvedpooh]

Just want to let you guys know that Pattaya Aikikai Aikido has closed down due to some personal issues of the instructors.

When training starts?

[morphic]

I agree with Krav Maga being just thuggery

How much Krav Maga training have you done to come to the conclusion that " I agree with Krav Maga being just thuggery " ?

I've been to seminars in Spain and UK and have friends/associates that train in it.

So what is "thuggish" about Krav Maga then?

What we do at Krav Maga Pattaya is certainly not "thuggish". It is effective civilian orientated Krav Maga and we also work on modern versions of Fairbairn WWII type Combatives and lots of strategy, drills, and Reality self Defense training inspired by Geoff Thompson too.

I am a British Combat Association member instructor.

We may do full contact drills on occasion e.g. "Animal Day" drills, "milling" drills, full contact baton and knife defenses, but there is nothing "thuggish" about that type of training, it is good street savvy reality self defense training. (The full on stuff is consensual for those who want to do the harder training, beginners keep it light of course).

In fact your WT Sifu here in Pattaya is a knows Geoff Thompson well and translated his books into German. Your Sifu likes the Geoff Thompson approach too. ;-)

And I am a big fan of Wing Chun too, I like that "Blitz Defense" that GM Kanzspec created for a quick self defense solution. I think Blitz Defense and Krav Maga are very similar. It is all great stuff. Train and enjoy what you do! :-)

Krav Maga is nothing more than strikes, punches, knees, elbows, and come to think of it just about every other martial art is made of strikes, punches, kicks etc etc. There is nothing special about Krav Maga, it is just another way of training for street self defense.

To be honest, it is the "individual" and their combative mindset that will win on the street, not the style of martial art.

There are plenty of drills of training the way we do Krav Maga training here in Pattaya on youtube. All the stuff we do is focused on live contact application, e.g gear up and try it out with contact and speed. We do not overly focus on perfect "technique" , we train Krav Maga more in the idea of "hit the bad guy, first, fast, and escape"

Our training clips going back several years are on www.youtube.com/kravmagathailand

I am always interested in positive discussion on self defense, but not in slagging matches etc.

Cheers

Gerry

I think the comment about Krav Maga being pure thuggery was taking a previous point out of context. The point was that Krav Maga may be very effective in a life and death situation but it may also be overkill in many other situations. You need to have a range of tools available to meet a range of potential situations and different martial arts offer different tools and techniques. For example, Aikido or Jujitsu may offer a simple and harmless method of taking an attacker off balance or restraining them in a way that is effective but causes no real harm. I have been attacked and used a simple technique I learned from Japanese Jujitsu to take the man off balance and quickly end the attack. I was a beginner at the time so this say a lot about the technique, although I admit the attacker was just a big drunk, not a hardened thug. If attacked by a hardened thug a harder response would ne required. But if all I had know at the time was how to elbow/knee/punch my assailant into a pulp I might have seriously hurt that person which would have been both inappropriate and may have resulted in my own arrest.

So, to a man with only a hammer every problem looks like a nail. The moral of the story is every martial art has something to offer depending on the situation.

[shartin]

Hi all,

Many thanks for the numerous repleis. It has been most interesting following this thread. In case anyones wondering, Ive decided that I think Im going to try the Wing Tsun for a bit and see how that goes. Wish me luck!

Many thanks

R

Edited June 30, 2011 by Rimmer
link to another forum removed see rule 10

[braverrouge]

Just want to let you guys know that Pattaya Aikikai Aikido has closed down due to some personal issues of the instructors.

When training starts?

Good question and to be honest, I don't know.

I will be moving to Bangkok in a couple of weeks and haven't found anyone to take over the classes.

[englishinsiam]

In fact your WT Sifu here in Pattaya is a knows Geoff Thompson well and translated his books into German. Your Sifu likes the Geoff Thompson approach too. ;-)

And I am a big fan of Wing Chun too, I like that "Blitz Defense" that GM Kanzspec created for a quick self defense solution. I think Blitz Defense and Krav Maga are very similar. It is all great stuff. Train and enjoy what you do! :-)

Krav Maga is nothing more than strikes, punches, knees, elbows, and come to think of it just about every other martial art is made of strikes, punches, kicks etc etc. There is nothing special about Krav Maga, it is just another way of training for street self defense.

To be honest, it is the "individual" and their combative mindset that will win on the street, not the style of martial art.

I am always interested in positive discussion on self defense, but not in slagging matches etc.

Cheers

Gerry

I know of Geoff Thompson from my Karate days too he was writing for Combat back in 1985 - god I'm old now :-) Blitz Defence is a great read and completely goes into the mindset of the fight. It's all very well learning the moves but unless you get the right mindset and approach and learn what your body is telling you, then you will lose in a fight. And Blitz defence gets into the heart of it. If you can get an English copy then I reccomend you read it.

So you know Ron then? A very unassuming man but for 62 years old very quick and strong. He's just finished translating Sifu's next book and apparently it's a monster of a book I'm hoping to get a copy of it once it's been released. Unless Ron gets one pre release which I think he usually does.

Send me a PM I have an open mind and would be interested to come and see what you guys do there.

The KM I saw before was full of Ego's and I don't like that maybe my judgement was clouded, and I am happy to change my opinion and maybe learn something in to the bargain. Just as long as the times don't clash with WT :-)

Hi all,

Many thanks for the numerous repleis. It has been most interesting following this thread. In case anyones wondering, Ive decided that I think Im going to try the Wing Tsun for a bit and see how that goes. Wish me luck!

Many thanks

R

We look forward to meeting you and getting to know you after I return to Pattaya :-) You will learn a lot and have some great fun with us.

I have told Ron you will be calling him once he's back from Germany

[Aikido]

I've been pracitising Aikido since the early 90's as a transition from my ju jitsu and judo days, ive only had to use Aiki twice in real situations and i can only speak from experience but i have to say its served me very well.

of course anyone could come unstuck it all depends who gets the first one in and if its a good one .

[englishinsiam]

I've been pracitising Aikido since the early 90's as a transition from my ju jitsu and judo days, ive only had to use Aiki twice in real situations and i can only speak from experience but i have to say its served me very well.

of course anyone could come unstuck it all depends who gets the first one in and if its a good one .

We can all be felled by an unseen sucker punch.

I always say though make it a good un or I'm coming to get ya

[Awohalitsiktoli]

I've been pracitising Aikido since the early 90's as a transition from my ju jitsu and judo days, ive only had to use Aiki twice in real situations and i can only speak from experience but i have to say its served me very well.

of course anyone could come unstuck it all depends who gets the first one in and if its a good one .

We can all be felled by an unseen sucker punch.

I always say though make it a good un or I'm coming to get ya

When I was in High School, I was hit once by a very large "idiot" who hit me with a sucker punch. It came out of nowhere. Down I went. It is really hard to defend against that no matter what defense techniques you know. I suppose it helps to learn to "expect the unexpected."

Edited July 2, 2011 by Awohalitsiktoli

[Aikido]

From what ive seen of Krav maga it looks like a mix of Judo an Jitsu, kind of a modern day rounded art as is MMA.

I would love to try theese arts to see what they could add to my skills, but alas im a bit old to learn new tricks.

I developed my art through visiting many dojos and practising Aiki against other style's like Katate, ju jitsu, Kung <deleted>, Thai boxing and so on it helps develop reflexes and prepares you for various attacks which is good, as in a real situation you never know whats really comming.

Off course the best thing to do if possible is run away :jap:

There's no superior art just superior martial artists.

Edited July 3, 2011 by Aikido

[Awohalitsiktoli]

From what ive seen of Krav maga it looks like a mix of Judo an Jitsu, kind of a modern day rounded art as is MMA.

I would love to try theese arts to see what they could add to my skills, but alas im a bit old to learn new tricks.

I developed my art through visiting many dojos and practising Aiki against other style's like Katate, ju jitsu, Kung <deleted>, Thai boxing and so on it helps develop reflexes and prepares you for various attacks which is good, as in a real situation you never know whats really comming.

Off course the best thing to do if possible is run away :jap:

There's no superior art just superior martial artists.

These two questions are for the Aikido experts:

1) Do you think it is possible to learn, say, 10-15 effective/practical moves (or even less) and win most street fights?

2) Do you think it is possible to combine Aikido and KM? Say, the ten best Aikido moves plus the ten best KM moves?

I am asking because of the many choices Aikido offers (too many, IMHO). The choices are, of course, great if you want to become an expert. But what I am talking about here is not professional competition; rather, I am talking about defeating the typical bar-stool idiot who has no martial arts training. I think Aikido is valuable because it allows you to position yourself properly and overcome an opponent (even one much larger than yourself) without "killing him." I think, from what I have seen on the internet, KM is valuable in close-up street fighting with your back against the wall ( when you have failed to position yourself properly). If I can digress, I was thinking Aikido would be something the great Mohammed Ali would be drawn to ("dance like a butterfly and sting like a bee"); KM would be something for Tyson or Maciano would be drawn to (bite his ear off if you need to). Combine the most effective elements of the two and surely you would end up with something devastating. Just an idea.

[morphic]

I find this thread interesting, partly because I like and practice martial arts and partly because of the frequent references to street/bar fights.

I wonder how many violent confrontations the average person here has experienced in their years visiting Thailand and elsewhere.

I have had two I think, in 12 years of visiting plus a couple more before that. None of these have led to anything too serious, but I do remember in my pre-martial arts days being unsure of what to do in those situations. The only encounter after having started martial arts about 10 years ago was far easier, I remembered a basic technique, didn't panic, didn't get hurt, handled my attacker without hurting him and all ended well.

But now that I am out of the danger years (20s and 30s) I just don't seem to get into confrontational situations, that is the best form of self-defence. So when I do jujitsu/judo etc, it hasn't been with self-defence in mind for years, its just fun and good for fitness.

[Awohalitsiktoli]

I find this thread interesting, partly because I like and practice martial arts and partly because of the frequent references to street/bar fights.

I wonder how many violent confrontations the average person here has experienced in their years visiting Thailand and elsewhere.

I have had two I think, in 12 years of visiting plus a couple more before that. None of these have led to anything too serious, but I do remember in my pre-martial arts days being unsure of what to do in those situations. The only encounter after having started martial arts about 10 years ago was far easier, I remembered a basic technique, didn't panic, didn't get hurt, handled my attacker without hurting him and all ended well.

But now that I am out of the danger years (20s and 30s) I just don't seem to get into confrontational situations, that is the best form of self-defence. So when I do jujitsu/judo etc, it hasn't been with self-defence in mind for years, its just fun and good for fitness.

I think the reference to street/bar fights is related to the fact that many of the fights expats get into are street fights in a bar (alcohol related). I have had one violent confrontation in Thailand (two in the USA, so three total) with a Thai male 1/2 my age. I managed to create a situation that resulted in neither one of us getting seriously hurt. I understand what you are saying about the danger "testosterone" years But in Thailand it is not unheard of for a young Thai kwi to try to beat the shit out of an "old expat." I saw it happen in Pattaya! I think there is a lot of anger among young Thai males (20-30s) towards expats in general (things have changed). I expect that anger to increase, especially given the recent election and the inevitable economic decline that will follow. Of course, it is best to not do things to "get into confrontational situations." Sometimes, no matter how hard you try to avoid it, your number comes up for no reason (other than you are being harassed by an idiot) and you must act. It is best to be prepared so that you do not "panic" and can take appropriate action.

[englishinsiam]

These two questions are for the Aikido experts:

I am asking because of the many choices Aikido offers (too many, IMHO). The choices are, of course, great if you want to become an expert. But what I am talking about here is not professional competition; rather, I am talking about defeating the typical bar-stool idiot who has no martial arts training. I think Aikido is valuable because it allows you to position yourself properly and overcome an opponent (even one much larger than yourself) without "killing him." I think, from what I have seen on the internet, KM is valuable in close-up street fighting with your back against the wall ( when you have failed to position yourself properly). If I can digress, I was thinking Aikido would be something the great Mohammed Ali would be drawn to ("dance like a butterfly and sting like a bee"); KM would

This is what we try to avoid in Wing Tsun the Arsenal of 150 set movements. We only really have 4 set movements and they are based on responses to an attack.

When I was training in Karate and Tae Kwon Do we had Kata's and Forms with maybe 80-120 movements and as many differentapplications for those Katas/Forms.

When your up against it try and remember more than 10 but all the time your remembering your reaction times are increasing when you have the same responses to an attack it's easier to get them into your muscle memory. Hence Bruce Lee's famous quote 'less is more'.

I find this thread interesting, partly because I like and practice martial arts and partly because of the frequent references to street/bar fights.

I wonder how many violent confrontations the average person here has experienced in their years visiting Thailand and elsewhere.

I have had two I think, in 12 years of visiting plus a couple more before that. None of these have led to anything too serious, but I do remember in my pre-martial arts days being unsure of what to do in those situations. The only encounter after having started martial arts about 10 years ago was far easier, I remembered a basic technique, didn't panic, didn't get hurt, handled my attacker without hurting him and all ended well.

But now that I am out of the danger years (20s and 30s) I just don't seem to get into confrontational situations, that is the best form of self-defence. So when I do jujitsu/judo etc, it hasn't been with self-defence in mind for years, its just fun and good for fitness.

When I was younger I was a hothead nothing I'm proud of and I was frequently in fights, but as I've got older I'm 40 now I realised I couldn't keep going that way and I suppose you can say grew up.

The only time I have hit someone in Pattaya was a few months ago on Second Road an idiot on a Motorbike was riding the wrong way and struck my bike. Luckily I stayed on and chased him some Motorcycle Taxi guys saw it and managed to stop him.

Obviously being a 20 something indestructible Thai lad he didn't have a helmet on. I calmly got off my bike and chainpunched him to the floor maybe 8-10 to the nose in little over a second. His face was a mess but he deserved it he could have killed us both quite easily.

The MC Taxi guys just pat me on the back and told me he was a Dek Durr (Bad boy) and deserved it.

I went on my way and saw no more of him.

Other than that I am a peacemaker I have stopped a few Farang from kicking off with others. But when it's Thai on Thai I keep well away and thats the only real advice I can give on that. Thais fight to survive Brits fight to win there is a big difference.

[englishinsiam]

There's no superior art just superior martial artists.

Maybe not but there are inferior Martial Arts, I've seen the rubbish some people are sprouting and the practitioners wont stand a chance in the real world.

[alexth]

I'd give Muay Thai a chance if I were you. It's great exercise, it's fun and it's pretty effective. It all depends on what you're looking to get out of a martial art. If you're looking for self defense techniques, you could go for BJJ or Krav Maga (too real for me) at Kombat Group

[alexth]

If you know what you're doing, Muay Thai could be much more effective than most of the other styles, except Sambo, BJJ or Krav Maga, where the practitioner doesn't have to be that skillful really to get a Muay Thai fighter into submission if he knows how to speculate a few moves

[englishinsiam]

The main problem with Muay Thai is the open guard leading to an open defence.

It's great to keep fit and strengthen your limbs and obviously if your physically fit then you stand a better chance in defending yourself than if you are unfit. But I'd put my money on a Western boxing, BJJ, KM or WT guy over an average Muay Thai guy any day of the week.

However if you let a Muay Thai guy kick your lower legs then you will most certainly know it, they can do some very powerful low kicks.

Edited July 5, 2011 by englishinsiam

[alexth]

A well fit and averagely skilled Muay Thai boxer could take a western boxer anytime. Can't speculate much regarding muay thai against BJJ, KM or Sambo, there are a lot of Xes in the equation, but in general I agree with englishinsiam's statement.

Now, to get back on topic, it all depends on that the op is expecting to get from training

Edited July 6, 2011 by alexth

[englishinsiam]

A well fit and averagely skilled Muay Thai boxer could take a western boxer anytime. Can't speculate much regarding muay thai against BJJ, KM or Sambo, there are a lot of Xes in the equation, but in general I agree with englishinsiam's statement.

Now, to get back on topic, it all depends on that the op is expecting to get from training

The OP is joining us at Wing Tsun our Sifu teaches no messing straight to the point attacks/responses to percieved/ongoing attacks.

I have trained with many Western Boxers and many Muay Thai and in my experience Western Boxing has a closer guard and they get in lower than Muay Thai which is more of a stand tall and slug it out style.

I'm more wary of a Boxer than a Thai Boxer not to say I'd underestimate either.

I agree any type of Boxing is great exercise they are fit blokes and if you get into a slug fest with either you will inevitably lose. Best thing is not to trade punches and kicks with them by fighting smarter.

Edited July 7, 2011 by englishinsiam

[tailspin]

Most of the comments here assume some sort of squaring off, handbags at dawn, set piece battle.

Great warriors usally end the festivities before it gets to this, by either avoidance or complete and total annihilation

Lots of martial arts have good and bad points.

Surprised no one mentioned muay thai reverse elbow.....it could be a life saver in a bar or crowded place.

The best and smartest fighter will usually win regardless of style....but he could also end up in the lock up!

Peace to all.

[medvedpooh]

Hello!

What's about aikido in Pattaya now? Are there any aikido aikikai dojos in Pattaya?

[raro]

Hello!

What's about aikido in Pattaya now? Are there any aikido aikikai dojos in Pattaya?

Still nothing. I had a talk with the Castra Gym in Soi Khao Noi and they would be ok to host the dojo (against their regular membership fee), but it would take a couple of people interested to start it. Thinking about it, I start a new thread about it in the Pattaya forum NOW.

[englishinsiam]

After considering Englishinsiamm's posts I did some research and located the following article.I found it to be relevant to the greater issue of surviving street confrontations.

http://www.geoffthompson.com/detailArticles.asp?id=154

Geoff Thompson talks a lot of sense he worked the doors of Coventry for over 20 years with a background in traditional Karate he has also looked at other things that work.....

One of these is the Wing Tsun Blitz Defence program he wrote a forward in GM Kernspechts book of the same name.

New practitioners to WT learn the Blitz defence program this aims to get you competent in self defence in about 6-9 months. You learn and repeat the basic principles for the majority of attacks you will face to get you a little more street smart.

After that you then get into the art of WT....

The BD program does not make you invincible but the average thug would be seen off by it.

If anyone wants to come to a session in Pattaya then pm me.

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