Thai Immigration Crackdown On Ed Visas

[TheShockMaster]

I'm guessing the "student" isn't invited to this then?....

[Amras]

We are not talking about tourism. We are talking about the right for foreigners to stay here long term purely because they want to. That's what I'm saying Thailand doesn't owe us. They don't owe us the right to just choose to stay here, the same as most other countries around the world. You can't just pick a country and decide to live there purely because you want to (Without a legitimate job, studying etc).

You avoid subject foreigner men with Thai wife and children.

If live on farm, not need much money, grow crop, swap foods with family.

Not everyone have 400,000bht in bank, so can not have married VISA

You want man abandon wife and child, go home?

To Amras: Yet people do pick countries and live there because they want to. I think the issue you are describing is one's ability to be productive to the hosting country. A sort of quid-pro-quo factor. Thailand does not seem to have a calculation for how much each foreigner spends while they are here. It is certainly much more than the average Thai family or single person, I'll warrant. Thailand does not take this into account, and does not consider issuing and "Expenditure" visa, whereby the foreigner is guaranteeing they will spend X amount of Bahts per month, and provide the receipts and documents to prove it, as well as how much interest the Thai banks and government made off of their money sitting in a Thai bank account. How about an "Expenditure" visa? Let's dispense with all the crap about jumping through hoops using ED visas and such in order to remain her.

It's the money that counts.

To Olaf: Well said. What happens if the foreigner is deported and subsequently abandons his wife / husband and children? Will the foreigner be a dead-beat parent, and will the government pick up the tab and provide the missing support money to the Thai spouse and half-half children? I think and "Expenditure" visa would clear away all the crap and take the bite out of the whining foreigners who spend too much time worrying about other foreigners getting more than their share of the pie.

And that's the crux of it: the foreigners who do most of the complaining, whereas the Thais generally seem to be more fairer in their corrupt little ways. It's all about the money, and not whether or not someone is attending a class. Did anyone stop to think how much that non-attending student is contributing to the economy each month? No! I didn't think so.

Time for another kind of visa that describes a foreigners right to remain in the Kingdom as long as they are spending a required amount. Until then, people remain in Thailand because they like it. They will use any means made available to them by corrupt or non-corrupt Thai authorities. This begs the question: Why in Hell do other foreigners care? Shut your pie holes and enjoy the life that you have made for yourself and don't rock the boat. You don't even know the people whom you are passing judgment on. Olaf stated it nicely. Do you want to condemn a Thai family to poverty just so you can sleep cozy at night over a set of principles made impractical by this chaotic environment?

I understand your point, and agree on an emotional level. But if your married you can quite easily get an Non-O visa without any proof of funds as long as you do border runs. Should it be easier if your married, of course I agree, as you have invested in a family in Thailand and obviously will be contributing to the country.

I don't think money should be the right attitude for granting visa's. I am not aware of any other country that does it or looks at how much an individual would spend in said country in granting a visa, so why should Thailand? It would mean that anyone with money could simply, pay their way to live here no matter who they are. Would this open a can of worms, then others complain, why is the amount so high, why do I have to show how much I spend etc.

The ED visa has no effect on a family if your married, as there are other visa options for married couples and families. It also doesn't matter if we spend more than an average Thai. It is still THEIR country and not ours, and just because we may have more money, doesn't mean we should be automatically entitled to do as we please (stay here because we just want too). They can't just decide to up and move to the US or Australia without a reason, so in all fairness why should we?

The point still is, it is EASY to get a VISA and abide by the conditions of said ED visa. Other's countries are MUCH more strict on their visa policies, attendance at school etc. I'm sure if said student in the OP wasn't attending class but still learning Thai (as many uni students are enrolled, don't go to class but still learn the material) it wouldn't be an issue. Fact is he was using a VISA for purposes other than those for which it was granted which is why it was denied. Not only because he didn't go to class.

Regardless of whether or not Thailand should be easier to stay in etc (even though it is already fairly easy to find a legit way of staying here), it is how it is, you accept the Visa conditions when you apply for it and if you want to risk doing something else and get caught ok, but just don't complain when you do or things get harder. Rules are rules and sadly to function as a society they generally need to be followed.

[homeslice]

No matter what has been said on the topic, in the past and presently, Thailand has been, is, and will continue to be a corrupt country that finds ways to squeeze money from the pockets of foreigners. This is nothing more than a shock to the system and we will return to "Thai normalcy" as soon as "whomever" has profited from the occasion, albeit a bit lighter in the pocket.

Personally, I think if we live in a "world economy" then why don't we have the ability to live in "the world"? If this were the situation, governments would compete for populace through diminished economic taxation and increased benefits. Novel concept isn't it?

[jdinasia]

No matter what has been said on the topic, in the past and presently, Thailand has been, is, and will continue to be a corrupt country that finds ways to squeeze money from the pockets of foreigners. This is nothing more than a shock to the system and we will return to "Thai normalcy" as soon as "whomever" has profited from the occasion, albeit a bit lighter in the pocket.

Personally, I think if we live in a "world economy" then why don't we have the ability to live in "the world"? If this were the situation, governments would compete for populace through diminished economic taxation and increased benefits. Novel concept isn't it?

Your concept isn't novel ... it is just plain stupid. Competing for populace .... oh yeah ... you'll get all the population you ever wanted. Most of which will never contribute ... or do you just mean that to be for people that actually already have money? They pretty much don't have a problem living in most places already

[chunktal]

We are not talking about tourism. We are talking about the right for foreigners to stay here long term purely because they want to. That's what I'm saying Thailand doesn't owe us. They don't owe us the right to just choose to stay here, the same as most other countries around the world. You can't just pick a country and decide to live there purely because you want to (Without a legitimate job, studying etc).

You avoid subject foreigner men with Thai wife and children.

If live on farm, not need much money, grow crop, swap foods with family.

Not everyone have 400,000bht in bank, so can not have married VISA

You want man abandon wife and child, go home?

To Amras: Yet people do pick countries and live there because they want to. I think the issue you are describing is one's ability to be productive to the hosting country. A sort of quid-pro-quo factor. Thailand does not seem to have a calculation for how much each foreigner spends while they are here. It is certainly much more than the average Thai family or single person, I'll warrant. Thailand does not take this into account, and does not consider issuing and "Expenditure" visa, whereby the foreigner is guaranteeing they will spend X amount of Bahts per month, and provide the receipts and documents to prove it, as well as how much interest the Thai banks and government made off of their money sitting in a Thai bank account. How about an "Expenditure" visa? Let's dispense with all the crap about jumping through hoops using ED visas and such in order to remain her.

It's the money that counts.

To Olaf: Well said. What happens if the foreigner is deported and subsequently abandons his wife / husband and children? Will the foreigner be a dead-beat parent, and will the government pick up the tab and provide the missing support money to the Thai spouse and half-half children? I think and "Expenditure" visa would clear away all the crap and take the bite out of the whining foreigners who spend too much time worrying about other foreigners getting more than their share of the pie.

And that's the crux of it: the foreigners who do most of the complaining, whereas the Thais generally seem to be more fairer in their corrupt little ways. It's all about the money, and not whether or not someone is attending a class. Did anyone stop to think how much that non-attending student is contributing to the economy each month? No! I didn't think so.

Time for another kind of visa that describes a foreigners right to remain in the Kingdom as long as they are spending a required amount. Until then, people remain in Thailand because they like it. They will use any means made available to them by corrupt or non-corrupt Thai authorities. This begs the question: Why in Hell do other foreigners care? Shut your pie holes and enjoy the life that you have made for yourself and don't rock the boat. You don't even know the people whom you are passing judgment on. Olaf stated it nicely. Do you want to condemn a Thai family to poverty just so you can sleep cozy at night over a set of principles made impractical by this chaotic environment?

You do not have a "right" to stay in any country on any visa, not just Thailand. You are granted a "privilege" to stay based on certain conditions. If you do not abide by those conditions, you can have the privilege revoked and be sent on your way, pretty simple for most people to understand.

No complaints or whining from me, if the government chooses to crack down on people who abuse the system, I say good on them. After all it is their country not yours and not mine, we are guests and should follow our hosts rules whether they suit you or not.

[Jawnie]

I'm on an ED visa and attend classes so I have no particular issue of Thailand ensuring ED visas are not abused. However, my concern is whether there will be some standard by which to determine whether ED visa holder is really studying or not. In the situation that started all of this, the skeptical Thai immigration official laid some Thai language on the unsuspecting applicant, who then did poorly. That is hardly a credible method upon which to make such a determining. As seems to be the MO for the Thai government, things operate on a whim and the rest of us take the brunt.

That point here is that I question whether Thai immigration officials are the right people to evaluate progress in Thai language relative to an applicants time on the ED visa. Who gives the test, who does the grading, who determines who is "in" and who is "out". Thai language is not easy and I find Thais have great difficulty pronouncing English and English speakers have great difficulty pronouncing Thai. Similar with listening comprehension. In the case here, did the applicant know he was going to be informally tested or was it a "pop quiz" as they say?

In order for this new level of scrutiny on ED visa to be credible, it's going to need a credible and predictable evaluation process - I'm not sure immigration officials are the right people for that.

[jdinasia]

SEVEN years on an Ed visa for studying Thai? They guy mentioned in the OP should have been all over it ... not standing mute

[cup-O-coffee]

We are not talking about tourism. We are talking about the right for foreigners to stay here long term purely because they want to. That's what I'm saying Thailand doesn't owe us. They don't owe us the right to just choose to stay here, the same as most other countries around the world. You can't just pick a country and decide to live there purely because you want to (Without a legitimate job, studying etc).

You avoid subject foreigner men with Thai wife and children.

If live on farm, not need much money, grow crop, swap foods with family.

Not everyone have 400,000bht in bank, so can not have married VISA

You want man abandon wife and child, go home?

To Amras: Yet people do pick countries and live there because they want to. I think the issue you are describing is one's ability to be productive to the hosting country. A sort of quid-pro-quo factor. Thailand does not seem to have a calculation for how much each foreigner spends while they are here. It is certainly much more than the average Thai family or single person, I'll warrant. Thailand does not take this into account, and does not consider issuing and "Expenditure" visa, whereby the foreigner is guaranteeing they will spend X amount of Bahts per month, and provide the receipts and documents to prove it, as well as how much interest the Thai banks and government made off of their money sitting in a Thai bank account. How about an "Expenditure" visa? Let's dispense with all the crap about jumping through hoops using ED visas and such in order to remain her.

It's the money that counts.

To Olaf: Well said. What happens if the foreigner is deported and subsequently abandons his wife / husband and children? Will the foreigner be a dead-beat parent, and will the government pick up the tab and provide the missing support money to the Thai spouse and half-half children? I think and "Expenditure" visa would clear away all the crap and take the bite out of the whining foreigners who spend too much time worrying about other foreigners getting more than their share of the pie.

And that's the crux of it: the foreigners who do most of the complaining, whereas the Thais generally seem to be more fairer in their corrupt little ways. It's all about the money, and not whether or not someone is attending a class. Did anyone stop to think how much that non-attending student is contributing to the economy each month? No! I didn't think so.

Time for another kind of visa that describes a foreigners right to remain in the Kingdom as long as they are spending a required amount. Until then, people remain in Thailand because they like it. They will use any means made available to them by corrupt or non-corrupt Thai authorities. This begs the question: Why in Hell do other foreigners care? Shut your pie holes and enjoy the life that you have made for yourself and don't rock the boat. You don't even know the people whom you are passing judgment on. Olaf stated it nicely. Do you want to condemn a Thai family to poverty just so you can sleep cozy at night over a set of principles made impractical by this chaotic environment?

I understand your point, and agree on an emotional level. But if your married you can quite easily get an Non-O visa without any proof of funds as long as you do border runs. Should it be easier if your married, of course I agree, as you have invested in a family in Thailand and obviously will be contributing to the country.

Boom!

I don't think money should be the right attitude for granting visa's. I am not aware of any other country that does it or looks at how much an individual would spend in said country in granting a visa, so why should Thailand? It would mean that anyone with money could simply, pay their way to live here no matter who they are. Would this open a can of worms, then others complain, why is the amount so high, why do I have to show how much I spend etc.

Money is what makes the world go round, or haven't you heard? You haven't heard of any other country that looks at how much an individual spends? Bwahhaaaaa! (USA)

The ED visa has no effect on a family if your married, as there are other visa options for married couples and families. It also doesn't matter if we spend more than an average Thai. It is still THEIR country and not ours, and just because we may have more money, doesn't mean we should be automatically entitled to do as we please (stay here because we just want too). They can't just decide to up and move to the US or Australia without a reason, so in all fairness why should we?

Contrary to your view, the ED visa is like a chocolate bar with a different wrapper. The chocolate is the same, but the wrapper is different. You certainly do not know what you are talking about when you suggest this and that about visas, and how they correlate to a person's ability to remain here in the kingdom.

It is their country and not ours! Give me a break please! I bitch about Thais all the time, but I will be the first one to say they are absolutely amazing people if you know how to deal with them. Isn't that the rule of thumb around the world? Know how to deal with people and learn to accept their terms when in Rome! Please do not compare Thaioland with facist USA or Australia, whi9ch is quickly becoming that way! Just my view mate!

The point still is, it is EASY to get a VISA and abide by the conditions of said ED visa.

What condition? I know the process! What condition are you talking about. Are you an expert on the matter? I am.

Other's countries are MUCH more strict on their visa policies, attendance at school etc.

So what! We're in Thailand! The L.O.$ You say its their country and then flop to this statement!

I'm sure if said student in the OP wasn't attending class but still learning Thai (as many uni students are enrolled, don't go to class but still learn the material) it wouldn't be an issue. Fact is he was using a VISA for purposes other than those for which it was granted which is why it was denied.

And how exactly do you know this? Do you actually believe that reporter?

Not only because he didn't go to class.

Not going to class is not a reason to focus on. He is not the bad person. The gate is broken and the cattle are getting out. Do you shoot the cattle or do you fix the gate?

Regardless of whether or not Thailand should be easier to stay in etc (even though it is already fairly easy to find a legit way of staying here), it is how it is, you accept the Visa conditions when you apply for it and if you want to risk doing something else and get caught ok, but just don't complain when you do or things get harder. Rules are rules and sadly to function as a society they generally need to be followed.

Yes! You are right. The rules are the rules. NOT YOUR RULES, THEIR RULES! I apologize for shouting, but I do believe yo just said it is their country? So why do you quibble with your views on what is right and what IS? You did say it is their country, right? And how many times do I tell people the rules (THEIR RULES) and they summarily dismiss what I suggested and go out and do it their own way (sound of of Frank Sinatra in the background) and totally "F" it up.

Amras, you seem like a decent sort. I would love to have brewskie with you and tell you the bottom line. You may or may not like it. But the fact of the matter is that Thais absolutely hate foreigners who snitch and whine about the system. I cannot say I disagree with them, despite their nationalistic attitude towards the rest of the world. From the G-D@mn dogs to the crazy drivers. But I will tell you that if the Thais retain their "This is our country" attitude for very long, then they will be left in the distance and be raped by foreign corporations, who will bleed their resources and leave their children in ignorance and destitution.

But do I really care? No! Not really. There is a certain responsibility to life that one must realize in order to get along with one's brothers and sisters. Trying to be separate from the rest of humanity will only purchase a ticket to destruction and chaos.

This entire article is based upon one idiotic person's view of what he or she thought was said, and what really is!!!! I know this.

Hey Pattaya! Today you have elections! I have a personal message for all the politicians, it's from my heart. Really That's why I absolutely love the new PM and know things will be alright:

Thailand, sometimes I hate you but most of the time I love you; and I guess that makes me normal! You are closer to my heart than most!

Amras; take care and all the best! To the skeptics; get a life and get along!

[Naam]

We are not talking about tourism. We are talking about the right for foreigners to stay here long term purely because they want to. That's what I'm saying Thailand doesn't owe us. They don't owe us the right to just choose to stay here, the same as most other countries around the world. You can't just pick a country and decide to live there purely because you want to (Without a legitimate job, studying etc).

You avoid subject foreigner man with Thai wife and child.

If live on farm, not need much money, grow crop, swap foods with family.

Not everyone have 400,000bht in bank, so can not have married VISA

You want man abandon wife and child, go home?

you avoid subject Thai law.

Thai law not care if live farm not need much money.

Thai law want foreigner man comply with Thai law.

if foreigner man want Thai wife and child but no have money then take wife and child to foreigner land and no need for abandon!

[timekeeper]

We are not talking about tourism. We are talking about the right for foreigners to stay here long term purely because they want to. That's what I'm saying Thailand doesn't owe us. They don't owe us the right to just choose to stay here, the same as most other countries around the world. You can't just pick a country and decide to live there purely because you want to (Without a legitimate job, studying etc).

You avoid subject foreigner man with Thai wife and child.

If live on farm, not need much money, grow crop, swap foods with family.

Not everyone have 400,000bht in bank, so can not have married VISA

You want man abandon wife and child, go home?

you avoid subject Thai law.

Thai law not care if live farm not need much money.

Thai law want foreigner man comply with Thai law.

if foreigner man want Thai wife and child but no have money then take wife and child to foreigner land and no need for abandon!

.....................

[OlafStapleton]

We are not talking about tourism. We are talking about the right for foreigners to stay here long term purely because they want to. That's what I'm saying Thailand doesn't owe us. They don't owe us the right to just choose to stay here, the same as most other countries around the world. You can't just pick a country and decide to live there purely because you want to (Without a legitimate job, studying etc).

You avoid subject foreigner men with Thai wife and children.

If live on farm, not need much money, grow crop, swap foods with family.

Not everyone have 400,000bht in bank, so can not have married VISA

You want man abandon wife and child, go home?

To Amras: Yet people do pick countries and live there because they want to. I think the issue you are describing is one's ability to be productive to the hosting country. A sort of quid-pro-quo factor. Thailand does not seem to have a calculation for how much each foreigner spends while they are here. It is certainly much more than the average Thai family or single person, I'll warrant. Thailand does not take this into account, and does not consider issuing and "Expenditure" visa, whereby the foreigner is guaranteeing they will spend X amount of Bahts per month, and provide the receipts and documents to prove it, as well as how much interest the Thai banks and government made off of their money sitting in a Thai bank account. How about an "Expenditure" visa? Let's dispense with all the crap about jumping through hoops using ED visas and such in order to remain her.

It's the money that counts.

To Olaf: Well said. What happens if the foreigner is deported and subsequently abandons his wife / husband and children? Will the foreigner be a dead-beat parent, and will the government pick up the tab and provide the missing support money to the Thai spouse and half-half children? I think and "Expenditure" visa would clear away all the crap and take the bite out of the whining foreigners who spend too much time worrying about other foreigners getting more than their share of the pie.

And that's the crux of it: the foreigners who do most of the complaining, whereas the Thais generally seem to be more fairer in their corrupt little ways. It's all about the money, and not whether or not someone is attending a class. Did anyone stop to think how much that non-attending student is contributing to the economy each month? No! I didn't think so.

Time for another kind of visa that describes a foreigners right to remain in the Kingdom as long as they are spending a required amount. Until then, people remain in Thailand because they like it. They will use any means made available to them by corrupt or non-corrupt Thai authorities. This begs the question: Why in Hell do other foreigners care? Shut your pie holes and enjoy the life that you have made for yourself and don't rock the boat. You don't even know the people whom you are passing judgment on. Olaf stated it nicely. Do you want to condemn a Thai family to poverty just so you can sleep cozy at night over a set of principles made impractical by this chaotic environment?

You do not have a "right" to stay in any country on any visa, not just Thailand. You are granted a "privilege" to stay based on certain conditions. If you do not abide by those conditions, you can have the privilege revoked and be sent on your way, pretty simple for most people to understand.

No complaints or whining from me, if the government chooses to crack down on people who abuse the system, I say good on them. After all it is their country not yours and not mine, we are guests and should follow our hosts rules whether they suit you or not.

Most civilized country accept the family have right live together, citizenship automatic (just paper chase)

I have created Thai persons am educating Thai persons and support extended Thai family therefore country 'mine' by any standard.

[bangkok101]

Ok, on the legitimate side of things: is an education visa a REQUIREMENT for foreigners to attend Thai language schools or any institute of learning in Thailand?

[homeslice]

No matter what has been said on the topic, in the past and presently, Thailand has been, is, and will continue to be a corrupt country that finds ways to squeeze money from the pockets of foreigners. This is nothing more than a shock to the system and we will return to "Thai normalcy" as soon as "whomever" has profited from the occasion, albeit a bit lighter in the pocket.

Personally, I think if we live in a "world economy" then why don't we have the ability to live in "the world"? If this were the situation, governments would compete for populace through diminished economic taxation and increased benefits. Novel concept isn't it?

Your concept isn't novel ... it is just plain stupid. Competing for populace .... oh yeah ... you'll get all the population you ever wanted. Most of which will never contribute ... or do you just mean that to be for people that actually already have money? They pretty much don't have a problem living in most places already

Thank you. I paused to consider what you had to say? (That my concept was "just plain stupid") I looked inside myself to see if some part of me was reacting to what you had said about me, particularly if some part of me were upset, prone to counterattack, or otherwise affected. I have found that when I am in that kind of reaction, there is typically something there for me to learn about myself, something for which I need to improve. In this instance, I found no reaction. Thus, you were simply sharing your opinion to which you are fully entitled and with which I have no argument. Therefore, "Thank you" seemed most appropriate. Inasmuch as you are entitled to your opinion, my opinion is that we think differently.

[TechnikaIII]

Ok, on the legitimate side of things: is an education visa a REQUIREMENT for foreigners to attend Thai language schools or any institute of learning in Thailand?

No, an ED visa is just a method for foreigners to stay in Thailand for longer Periods of time (after 90 Days, they either have to do a border run, or report to Immigration).

Edit 11:22

Here is some reading about that kind of visa.

http://www.thaivisa.com/279.0.html

Yes bangkok101, that is the intention of the ED visa, given that you didn't already have another visa, for another purpose. So, as I understand it, if you already had a work permit, or other legitimate visa, and chose to study whilst in Thailand, then the ED visa would not be required, so long as you studied in Thailand within the parameters of the visa you have. But it doesn't work the other way. For example, whilst studying on an ED visa, this would not give you a green light to take employment. For that, specific permission is mandatory.

MJCM's sarcasm is not helpful, especially as you are new to the forum. But sadly, MJCM's comment is indicative of the sort of smart arse crap you have to sort through at this place, in order to find useful information.

[BigFishEatLittleFish]

About time!

With tongue in cheek, , perhaps we have failed to grasp the subtlety of the situation? The relevant passage is: "So the officer looked at him and said, 'You have been learning Thai for six years already. Is that right? 'The answer was yes so the officer looked at a nearby fish tank and said inThai, 'The big fish eat the little fish." The foreigner looked at him without a clue."

So you see my friends, this was a signal by the desk officer for the farung to whip out his wallet, pull out 1000 baht, and slip it across the desk with a smile, no?

BIG FISH EAT LITTLE FISH, or one hand washes the other, or you scratch my back and I'll scratch yours? Kapeesh?

Edited July 10, 2011 by BigFishEatLittleFish

[arthurwait]

Pla yay geen pla lek

So what the answer?

Plah yai mee bpuat tong.

[arthurwait]

I only got to the fourth page before getting bored.

Edited July 11, 2011 by arthurwait

[Geratul]

Well you can also put it in an other perspective. Honest people like to stay in Thailand on a normal base to stay with partner or whatever the reason is. But Thailand don't have any other possibility in visa-choice. But why is this country so paranoia? so overreacting is visa-requirements and you know also why... corruption is the word! For your info, you get a 1-year visa... but... every 3 months you need to go to immigration for a 3 months extention for the amount of THB 1,900,--???? and as extra also every 3 months, which is never at the same time, for your address confirmation (!!!!????) Is that a 1-year visa ??? You pay already for the visa and then another 4 x 1,900. Bingo !!!!! Let the cashier machine roll !!!!!!

When you ask the immigration officer why like this, she only smile, sure! Last time I went for my 3 months address confirmation, but my visa was only valid for 2 months.. she even don't look because her mobile phone was more interesting, and signed the paper.... looks very needed!

The point in Thailand is that they see foreigners as a WAM! Oh... explanation... WAM = Walking ATM Machine and that's all! Help full they are not at all. Why so paranoia? There are many foreigners in Thailand who are here as said earlier on a normal base. Have perhaps a Thai partner, life together, contribute to the society (with his own money) and so on. But no... Thailand want's more, more money!

Look to countries in the same region, for instance Malaysia... 1 year visa is 1 year visa! Even they offer a program called "Malaysia as you second homeland". That says enough, you have the feeling that you are "welcome" as a foreigner. Here in Thailand you have always the feeling to be treated like a 2nd hand citizen. Can you imagine? You contribute only to this society (in my case) and don't ask anything back, only to let me live my live... so why can't Thailand be more flexibel towards (honest and reliable) foreigners?

With other words, it would be better when Thailand review it's visa-requirements and not only look to money, money, money! and offer just like for instance Malaysia a visa-program which foreigners can apply for when they like to stay here to live a normal life. For sure one day the system will be changed for sure, because only of the present visa-requirements I will never invest in this country and keep my money abroad, better! But I've trust in the new to come government, which already had a concept for new visa's, but due to the coupe where stalled in the drawer. Let's hope they will open this file again very soon...

[thaibeachlovers]

If you have bought a condominium here with hard earned honest cash, your in your 40's and purchased whilst in Thailand on a O Visa your not married so have to resort to an education visa to be able to stay long term in your legally purchased condominium and fail a random Thai question by immigration when you have actually been attending you are well and truly fuc_ked.

Yes. Perhaps the guy in question was just startled, and took a while to comprehend, by which time the mini dictator had taken it on himself to be judge jury and executioner. Visa cancelled, no appeal. What sort of legal basis did the official have to make that decision? NONE.

dam_n, I hate petty bureaucrats from whatever country.

Unfortunately life is not fair and there's nothing to be done about it, short of becoming PM or whatever.

I too find it strange that so many that are fortunate enough to be able to stay legally and financially are so quick to stick it to those not so fortunate. Dog and manger spring to mind.

[SolarOhm]

Hey - there is NO RIGHT that a foreigner has to stay in Thailand. Get that straight for a start!

If you wish to stay then obey the law. failure to obey the laws of the land - whatever country you land in - is a sure way to get shot out like a bullet.

Stop trying to scam the system and obtain advantages by twisting the law.

If you are not old enough yet to retire - the solution is GROW Up.

Don't want to work in Thailand? GET A JOB!!

Can't get job? SET UP A BUSINESS!!

If you are prepared to contribute to Thailand you can stay - if you do not wish to contribute - the WHY should Thailand let you stay??

Change your attitude about obtaining a visa and your rights - read the rules and follow them - don't whinge that life is unfair to you - poor spoilt brat you are!!!

[a99az]

I don't see what all the fuss is about. People pay to do an Ed visa, then bunk off from school! It's a no brainer they lose out, and every one else wins, so if thats what they want, why not? They have PAID for it, up front and are plowing money into the schools. Very nice for the country and everyone should be happy, shouldn't they! Or have I missed something?

Or is it that someone missed out on the bung, oh dear me.

Yes, you've missed something: they are fraudulently claiming student status when they are clearly not students. Paying tuition at a visa mill/school does not make you a student.

How can you not possibly understand that?

As a teacher in Thailand, I understand it very well. The point is, why get so upset about it, it's the way Thais do things here. Like I said "Or is it that someone missed out on the bung, oh dear me"

[Trembly]

If you have bought a condominium here with hard earned honest cash, your in your 40's and purchased whilst in Thailand on a O Visa your not married so have to resort to an education visa to be able to stay long term in your legally purchased condominium and fail a random Thai question by immigration when you have actually been attending you are well and truly fuc_ked.

Yes. Perhaps the guy in question was just startled, and took a while to comprehend, by which time the mini dictator had taken it on himself to be judge jury and executioner. Visa cancelled, no appeal. What sort of legal basis did the official have to make that decision? NONE.

dam_n, I hate petty bureaucrats from whatever country.

Unfortunately life is not fair and there's nothing to be done about it, short of becoming PM or whatever.

I too find it strange that so many that are fortunate enough to be able to stay legally and financially are so quick to stick it to those not so fortunate. Dog and manger spring to mind.

I see your misfortune and raise you the old adage of "fortune favours the well prepared".

If he was merely too startled to put into action 7 years of Thai lessons then he has the right to appeal in writing to the commander of that immigration police unit. He could probably even write it in Thai and do the subsequent interview in Thai and everything given his 7 years of study . . .

Do you call traffic policemen who ask suspected drunk drivers to walk in a straight line mini-dictators too? What about the ones that make you recite the alphabet backwards?

It would never have happened had he even bothered to go to 1, 2, or maybe 3 hours a week of classes instead of the official requirement of 4, or if he had just had the imagination to enrol in an embroidery or Muay Thai class instead.

I'm not revelling in his misfortune because it wasn't misfortune; it was shit drills. He was a minor candidate for the Darwin Award in the Expat Abilities category, end of. Empathizers take note.

I don't know him from Adam so I have no pity or bile for him either way, but taking him as a representative example of many, I'm finding it hard to muster sympathy for those who fiddle a system and get caught out by an error that would be embarrass a schoolboy.

Edited July 14, 2011 by Trembly

[Tokay]

21 pages of haters.

[OlafStapleton]

If you are prepared to contribute to Thailand you can stay - if you do not wish to contribute - the WHY should Thailand let you stay??

Change your attitude about obtaining a visa and your rights - read the rules and follow them - don't whinge that life is unfair to you - poor spoilt brat you are!!!

I say already, I contribute Thai citizen to Thailand and farm to Thai family.

I contribute high school education to Thai wife, university education to Thai daughter.

I think I should be allow live on farm with wife, with child, work farm.

Thailand thinks not.

but

Thailand not care what foreigner contribute, only what money foreigner have left.

Edited July 16, 2011 by OlafStapleton

[SolarOhm]

If you have bought a condominium here with hard earned honest cash, your in your 40's and purchased whilst in Thailand on a O Visa your not married so have to resort to an education visa to be able to stay long term in your legally purchased condominium and fail a random Thai question by immigration when you have actually been attending you are well and truly fuc_ked.

Yes. Perhaps the guy in question was just startled, and took a while to comprehend, by which time the mini dictator had taken it on himself to be judge jury and executioner. Visa cancelled, no appeal. What sort of legal basis did the official have to make that decision? NONE.

dam_n, I hate petty bureaucrats from whatever country.

Unfortunately life is not fair and there's nothing to be done about it, short of becoming PM or whatever.

I too find it strange that so many that are fortunate enough to be able to stay legally and financially are so quick to stick it to those not so fortunate. Dog and manger spring to mind.

If you made the wrong move and paid cash for a condo in Thailand then you have rocks in your head.

Instead of paying cash you could have established a company - and obtained a work permit and visa that would have enabled you to stay in Thailand. You could have even borrowed money with which to acquire a condo.

The only difference is - because you did it the wrong way you did not achieve what you really wanted??

Perhaps it is not too late to reverse the process. Either borrow against the condo and set up a legitimate company etc - or sell the condo and use the proceeds appropriately.

[gleeglee]

I am led to believe that you are required to attend 70% of classes, The ministry of education inspect classes so that they conform with the law, I asked at the ministry and you have to attend classes within the school not via skype. and each school has a capacity of students according to classrooms registered at the MoE and they are not allowed to exceed the classroom availability.

The MoE also does not recognise an online TEFL course either.

Walen is not affected by this or? Do those Skype students need to attend the classrooms now too?

The issue seems to be that the guy was with the guy not being able to speak Thai at a very basic level. Pla yay geen pla lek. So super easy. If you learn online you do actually attend a class, and many students do not learn online because they need visa, this is one of the way we teach. If there is a problem with this kind of visa it will be because people like this.

The moral of the story is learn some Thai, at least at a basic level. It needs to be evident that you go to school and learn. He did not ask him to translate passages from Shakespeare into Thai, did he?

Alas, poor Somkid, I knew him well. :D

Do I need an education visa to study online, or can I use a retirement visa ?

[slapout]

Not sure where Glee got his "led to believe" info, but at least he is putting some opinion out for some to ponder. This would include students as well as those claiming to run completely legal language schools. Before the blame/finger is pointed at those students who are not following the rules/guidelines of the system, maybe a 'closer' scrutiny of the schools themselves are in order.

[bunnaag]

Well you can also put it in an other perspective. Honest people like to stay in Thailand on a normal base to stay with partner or whatever the reason is. But Thailand don't have any other possibility in visa-choice. But why is this country so paranoia? so overreacting is visa-requirements and you know also why... corruption is the word! For your info, you get a 1-year visa... but... every 3 months you need to go to immigration for a 3 months extention for the amount of THB 1,900,--???? and as extra also every 3 months, which is never at the same time, for your address confirmation (!!!!????) Is that a 1-year visa ??? You pay already for the visa and then another 4 x 1,900. Bingo !!!!! Let the cashier machine roll !!!!!!

When you ask the immigration officer why like this, she only smile, sure! Last time I went for my 3 months address confirmation, but my visa was only valid for 2 months.. she even don't look because her mobile phone was more interesting, and signed the paper.... looks very needed!

The point in Thailand is that they see foreigners as a WAM! Oh... explanation... WAM = Walking ATM Machine and that's all! Help full they are not at all. Why so paranoia? There are many foreigners in Thailand who are here as said earlier on a normal base. Have perhaps a Thai partner, life together, contribute to the society (with his own money) and so on. But no... Thailand want's more, more money!

Look to countries in the same region, for instance Malaysia... 1 year visa is 1 year visa! Even they offer a program called "Malaysia as you second homeland". That says enough, you have the feeling that you are "welcome" as a foreigner. Here in Thailand you have always the feeling to be treated like a 2nd hand citizen. Can you imagine? You contribute only to this society (in my case) and don't ask anything back, only to let me live my live... so why can't Thailand be more flexibel towards (honest and reliable) foreigners?

With other words, it would be better when Thailand review it's visa-requirements and not only look to money, money, money! and offer just like for instance Malaysia a visa-program which foreigners can apply for when they like to stay here to live a normal life. For sure one day the system will be changed for sure, because only of the present visa-requirements I will never invest in this country and keep my money abroad, better! But I've trust in the new to come government, which already had a concept for new visa's, but due to the coupe where stalled in the drawer. Let's hope they will open this file again very soon...

What are you talking about.If you have a one year visa you do not have to extend it every 3 months and pay 1900 Bath.You have to report every 90 days and that costs nothing.

Edited July 25, 2011 by bunnaag

[Mario2008]

A 1 year visa means you have to leave the country every 90 days. You don't have to pay to enter again, but need to pay to enter another country before returning to Thailand.

What is talked about are 90 day extensions, for which you have to pay every 90 days and at the same time do a 90 day report.

[soomak]

Great news! But they should have done it years ago!

Even though these "students" can take care of them self, it shows clearly that they do not wish to integrate themselves. If you do not have sufficient qualifications to get a job in a foreign country and you are not retired, the least you can do is to learn the language, integrate yourself and then try to positively contribute to the society. Those who just want to be here without doing anything, should not be here!

That's bullschit ! If they can afford to live here without having to work but make a contribution to the economy and don't make a nuisance of themselves, why shouldn't they be here ?

If they're happy to deal with the disadvantages of not speaking Thai, what's the problem?

The armchair morality on this forum is astonishing sometimes and it is usually people with similar holier-than-thou attitudes who end up disillusioned with Thai society when, despite their language skills, they experience discrimination at the hands of some of the more duplicitous members of the indigenous population.

Frankly, if foreigners were given some rights and protection under Thai law, they might be more inclined to learn the language.

Because if you just stay here without doing anything but spending your savings from abroad (you do not add REAL value to the economy), you might be fine, and so will Thailand for a while. But you will be bringing in foreign capital, which will add significant purchasing power to the Thai economy (which is a good thing). But if enough foreigners do like that, one day the Thai economy might be, to some degree, depending on this increased inflow of foreign capital. Then as Thailand slowly gets more expensive, one day all these foreigners might say "Hey, life in Thailand is to expensive, lets go to the Philippines", then suddenly thailand will be missing some percent of their domestic consumption, which could prove catastrophic to the Thai economy.

In the late 90'ies, Thailand felt the effect of a sudden loss of foreign capital, and now, with good reason, they are very protective when it comes to being dependent on foreign capital (why do you think the recent financial crisis hardly reached Thailand). So you might think that one single foreigner will not matter a lot, but imagine just 100,000 foreigners spending 5-10 times more that the average Thai, that would be more than 1% of the total domestic consumption.

Sorry, but you are completely wrong.

Thailand is dependent on foreign money: 2/3 of the Thai GDP comes from exports, which depend on price competitiveness.

Foreigners living in Thailand may be responsible for 1% of GDP, and even if they all leave within 5 years, that will not cause any crisis (except in Pattaya).

And another mistake:

When you spend your money from abroad money here, you add value to the economy. This money translates into more spending by the people earning the salaries.

Economics 101.

Edited September 21, 2011 by soomak