Street Fighting Man

[alobar]

So there we were, a rag tag bunch of ex-pats, shooting the sh't over some beers, discussing particle physics, the best burger in town, and Rod Stewart's lyrics. All of a sudden a hostile voice turned our heads to a heated and apparent domestic argument between a Thai man and woman.

The man was completely engaged in his anger (as well as completely in his cups), then threw down his motor scooter and began fully assaulting the woman with kicks, punches and pushes. It was clearly something to NOT get in the middle of, yet common decency, a western sense of chivalry, instinct to protect, the late hour as well as a separate group of beer fueled folks who had only been in Thailand for an hour and a half thought immediate intervention the best idea.

It quickly began to resemble the end seen of Frankenstein with shouts of 'burn im' as people started picking up chairs, bottles and sticks. It was not heading for a good outcome. There is no right and wrong way to handle these situations, and many schools of thought on farang involvement. The police had been called, for what that's worth, but there was genuine violence in the air as well as on the ground. The more seasoned locals were pleading for a much more restrained response- and while i don't suppose anyone would have stood back had this gone to a life threatening level- there is an awkward bit of non involvement that is necessary I think, to gauge, asses, and let a cultural drama unfold.

Anyone who has ever worked in or around police work knows that the most volatile scenes in the world are domestic calls.The couple did alternately reconcile with hugs and soft tones for moments before re-engaging in violence, with the woman bearing the brunt of it.

I'm sure most folks on here have been witness to or party to a similar situation. I was wondering what of the many many options of response people employed.

In the end a sort of dangerous Farang posse formed- and fortunately the police did arrive, as neither side seemed to want to back down.

There were equal shouts of 'it's a Thai thing and we don't understand it, and it could turn on us in a heartbeat', mixed with genuine concern for the safety of an un 'armed' opponent, mixed with sullied ego's of drunken farangs who thought they had been slighted. It had the portent of a very bad situation.

[uptheos]

Get involved in a Thai dispute at your peril.........you will not win, no matter how many of you there are.

[Rama]

Doesn't matter what religious persuasion you are, standing by while a woman is beat up is very bad karma. Better to suffer a little than to let a woman be beat up. Most men that beat up women have no balls when it comes to a man has been my personal experience. Doesn't matter if Thai or foreign. You don't have to fight, just stand between. Almost all men back down when confronted. The response that it's a "Thai thing" is correct - it's a uneducated low class "Thai thing" and not a Buddhist thing to do nothing, just as it is in any country to not want to get involved out of fear for one's own skin.

[slapout]

Rama; Just an observation, when an outsider gets in between the cowardly man and the wife he is abusing, they need to have eyes in the back of their head. That woman can turn into a wildcat if her spouse is threatened or made to lose face. About the only success I have seen comes thru intervention of near family. (children, sister, etc)

Otherwise, expect to either slap them both down or endure the physical assault of both.

[Ulysses G.]

Get involved in a Thai dispute at your peril.........you will not win, no matter how many of you there are.

I agree, but sometimes it is hard to do nothing other than call the police.

[saintofsilence]

Have seen a similar situation on Pattaya beach and there was one cop he stood back and watched also.

[james24]

I think there is a limit to how far you can let it go. Whether Thailand or anywhere else, if a man stands back whilst a woman is getting a complete kicking right in front of them, then that is wrong 100%. All this "dont get involved" stuff is an excuse, its pretty obvious that man is too scared to get involved.

In my opinion a punch or a kick is too far.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

How would you know the background?

What if she deserved it?

But yeah, if it goes too far then you could try to calm things down. But likely not by standing in between them.  And you better be fluent in Thai too, because communication remains crucial no matter how physical it gets.   (Both to the people in the dispute as well to any bystanders, and then to police when they show up.)

If you're not fluent in Thai, you're not equipped to resolve this no matter how tough you are.

Edited August 3, 2011 by WinnieTheKhwai

[Mestizo]

How would you know the background?

What if she deserved it?

But yeah, if it goes too far then you could try to calm things down. But likely not by standing in between them.  And you better be fluent in Thai too, because communication remains crucial no matter how physical it gets.   (Both to the people in the dispute as well to any bystanders, and then to police when they show up.)

If you're not fluent in Thai, you're not equipped to resolve this no matter how tough you are.

[uptheos]

If you're not fluent in Thai, you're not equipped to resolve this no matter how tough you are.

Spot on!

[tomahawk]

I had not been in Thailand long when I encountered this same situation. I could not speak one word of Thai but I used to be in law enforcement and this kind of crap is same everywhere. I just got between the guy and woman and held up my hand and said "stop", which I am sure guy did not know English but still figured it out. He kept yelling and shaking his fist but he was half my size for one thing and like a other posting said these types are usually gutless anyway, so he got on his bike and rode away. There were many Thai people watching but no one got involved. I am not advising anyone what to do, only reporting an incident.

As for posting who says maybe she deserved it, many women have done me wrong but I never hit them. This is a gutless and cowardly act and if woman is no good just leave or throw her out but no excuse for beating women.

[tomahawk]

I had not been in Thailand long when I encountered this same situation. I could not speak one word of Thai but I used to be in law enforcement and this kind of crap is same everywhere. I just got between the guy and woman and held up my hand and said "stop", which I am sure guy did not know English but still figured it out. He kept yelling and shaking his fist but he was half my size for one thing and like a other posting said these types are usually gutless anyway, so he got on his bike and rode away. There were many Thai people watching but no one got involved. I am not advising anyone what to do, only reporting an incident.

As for posting who says maybe she deserved it, many women have done me wrong but I never hit them. This is a gutless and cowardly act and if woman is no good just leave or throw her out but no excuse for beating women.

[millwall_fan]

The OP has raised an interesting issue and most eloquently assessed all the options. I guess we'll never really know what we'd do until we found ourselves in that situation. Me? With a couple of Leos for fortification and a Farang posse as back up, a woman (regardless of nationality) being attacked. Sure, I'd have a dig.. and then scarper as soon as Plod arrived or the natives looked like they were taking his side.

[venturalaw]

The problem is that as a foreigner (Thai too for that matter), there are no guaranties of legal protections. For instance, what if the Thai aggressor is related to a high ranking police official? You for all your chivalry are toast. It is for that reason, and that reason only, that I will never voluntarily become involved in a Thai dispute under any circumstances.

[Tokay]

Get involved in a Thai dispute at your peril.........you will not win, no matter how many of you there are.

Every now and then Thais lose. However, the odds are against you.

[uptheos]

Get involved in a Thai dispute at your peril.........you will not win, no matter how many of you there are.

Every now and then Thais lose. However, the odds are against you.

Yes indeed, if there are other Thai's around re-inforcements will arrive extremely fast. Don't even think about farang re-inforcements, even if they are around. I repeat, no matter how big and strong you are - you get into the middle of a Thai dispute at your own peril.

[cerbera]

if they are doing this in public the chances are they are on drugs or are drunk. even the most greng jai interventinon wouldnt help. I didnt read all of the details. but if the women starts getting hit i would intervene,

probably quite effectively.

dont like bullys

[xen]

I had not been in Thailand long when I encountered this same situation. I could not speak one word of Thai but I used to be in law enforcement and this kind of crap is same everywhere. I just got between the guy and woman and held up my hand and said "stop", which I am sure guy did not know English but still figured it out. He kept yelling and shaking his fist but he was half my size for one thing and like a other posting said these types are usually gutless anyway, so he got on his bike and rode away. There were many Thai people watching but no one got involved. I am not advising anyone what to do, only reporting an incident.

As for posting who says maybe she deserved it, many women have done me wrong but I never hit them. This is a gutless and cowardly act and if woman is no good just leave or throw her out but no excuse for beating women.

From what i have seen and experienced with some Thais , your action has probably not solved the situation but just postponed the conclusion . You caused him a loss of face and if he is guttless like you assume he is, what he will do is either get revenge on you in some underhanded method, maybe by setting you up or paying some shooter to get you one night . But more likely he give the woman an even worse beating for being the cause of him loosing face.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

From what i have seen and experienced with some Thais , your action has probably not solved the situation but just postponed the conclusion . You caused him a loss of face and if he is guttless like you assume he is, what he will do is either get revenge on you in some underhanded method, maybe by setting you up or paying some shooter to get you one night . But more likely he give the woman an even worse beating for being the cause of him loosing face.

You mean there is any face left to be lost when already beating a woman in public? Hit rock bottom right there.

It seems a lot of you don't truly get 'face' (or greng jai for that matter). Clearly there is a way of intervening that prevents the woman from ending up in hospital, while saving some face all around, fig leaf or not.

[mamborobert]

Take the Thai issue (as a male aggressor) out of the equation and is it really and different?

Domestic violence is not a Thai only issue by any means.

Near where I live there is an Uk guy in his late 50's and him and his partner have regular blues. Police have been called numerous times, she has had black eyes, he has been stabbed and hospitalised. No Thai intervened because the young Lady (31) does not have any family here, having said that there were complaints about the noise (hence the police attending). This has been going on for two plus years at least once a month. End result they got married, and still it goes on once a month like clock work. Continuously fuelled by alcohol and jealousy by both parties.

I still say hello to the (now) wife and have a yack, but to her husband have not said a word to him for a year, he knows what I think as I have made it abundantly clear.....but it carries on sometimes quietly and sometimes noisly behind closed doors. His wife is actually more embarrassed for him because she knows that I as the nearest farang to him want nothing to do with him at all tahn she is for his or her acts of violence. All the local Thais see that I have nothing to do with him and know why as when a few have asked I have openly told them.

And at the end of it...the wife absolutley adores her husband for reasons that I will never work out. I would never get between her and him in a blue because if she thought he was going to get decked it becomes "my husband right or wrong", and she is capable of extreme violence (has slashed him who she loves with a knife a few times)...but he knows what will happen to him later if I see him do something and if I front up it usually tones down ......I say usually, liquid courage is a horrible and gutless thing, much like striking a woman.

I will deck him in a heartbeat....but much later, never when she is around and riled up...done it twice before and he said nothing to no one, including his wife. Afterwards I actually felt bad about it and still have some doubts as the guy is 10 yeasr older than me and intoxicated at the time...it did not make me feel better as I know it still goes on my only hope is that less often and less violent, but I really think thats deluding myself. I don't think I achieved much as far as stopping anything at all, all that has been established locally is a difference in behaviour amongst two farangs as to what is considered acceptable. The same differences that exist with Thai as well I guess.

the weird thing for me was that NO Thai would get involved as she had no family here at all and was in an established relationship, but there was certainly an explicit expectation for me as a a local farang to get involved to try and sort it out (other women in the compound would talk with my wife, often whilst I was there, something should be done blah blah blah, all stop look at me type stuff, and that was the subtle go. So maybe it is farangs sort out farangs and thais sort out Thais.

Edited August 4, 2011 by mamborobert