Nissan Leaf In Bangkok

[Tonykalniev]

Hi guys,

Here I come again, with my electric vehicle ranting. However, rather it being a rant about my dream, it finally became a reality.

Last month, I tested my second electric car (first one was the Tesla Roadster). It was The Nissan Leaf. It was an unforgettable experience. All thanks to Eton Imports, who promised to help introduce EV's in Thailand. They are planning to introduce 4 EV's.

The car was silent when you just used the same technology as the Nissan March: press the start button without the key. Then you have a joystick-like transmission. Slide it into drive and off we are...silently.

The car accelerate fast! 0-100km/h in 7 seconds. That is the same as the Honda Civic Euro type R. Then you have eco mode, which dramatically reduces the speed, but gives way more range.

Stuck in traffic (that's Bangkok for ya), I had the opportunity to look at the gadgets of the vehicle, as well as its interior dimensions. The car is very similar to a normal car. I currently drive a Toyota Yaris, my brother has a 2004 Honda Jazz and my mother has a 2011 Honda Jazz Hybrid (read my other topic). All normal buttons, same setup of airflow, same steering wheel, same seats, same pockets, etc. The center console had a similar design, except for its software. The navigation was set for Japan. I pressed to buttons and for 2 seconds I was so confused why Bangkok actually indicated it had charging stations! That was actually Tokyo. Then another screen comes up that displays what of your electronics are draining your battery. It shows the amount of voltage the A/C, radio, motor, lights and so on "burn". Because this is an electric car, most parts are custom designed to be as energy efficient as possible. The total amount of voltage that the electronics drained (radio and A/C at 25C) was 1.2V, which is in other words: nothing*.

*I read an article recently that showed Nissan introducing a new system for Japanese buyers. When your house has a power cut, the Nissan Leaf would use its battery to power the house. A full battery would allow 2 days of power for the entire house!!!*

The interior is so much more spacious than my bro's 2004 Honda Jazz. Front and back leg space is as if you were in a Mercedes s class. The boot is fine; larger than the Yaris, but smaller than the 2011 Honda jazz. Vision is great, with no dead spot to be seen, unlike its counterparts.

The ride is smooth. After driving it for an hour, I almost forgot that it was an EV, until you hit the accelerator and get pushed back into your seat and you hear that awesome whine like a jet airplane.

The odometer was interesting. No more rev count, no more gas tank sign. there was a big bar on the top that indicates regenerative braking and power output. On the right you had your battery %. And in the middle the speed you were doing. One note I still remember to this day is when I gave turn signals. The sounds was very different from your average car. It was quite pleasant.

Well, that's it folks. Join me next week Saturday for the next car in Eton's line-up, The Tesla Roadster in Bangkok! Until then, have a look at the following pictures:

Edited August 5, 2011 by Tonykalniev

[aussiebebe]

Very interesting post. A recent Top Gear episode from the UK looked at the Nissan March, full of praise, but the presenter's trip to the beach was disrupted by a lack of charging infrastructure. They ending up getting a tour of Lincoln castle, doing brass rubbings in the Cathedral, fishing, playing scrabble and getting lewd tattoos to while away the 13 hours charge time. Ultimately they suggested tongue-in-cheek that either a Dodgems-type overhead power system or electrified tracks on roads would be more viable solutions to transport.

Watching the episode and reading about these cars online, eventually I stumbled across news of a US company Joule Unlimited which just last month received two US patents for their system of producing ethanol and diesel from photosynthetic microorganisms. It actually works right now on a small scale and the huge challenge is to see whether it can mass-produced on a 5,000 acre site the company have just leased in New Mexico. Somehow this seems more plausible than relying on ฿500,000 car batteries which last 3 years on repeated quick-charges or 5-10 years through normal usage.

[beano2274]

UK price for the leaf 30,000GBP, if you look after the batteries properly might get 10 years out of them. They just did a comparison on Top Gear.

It was not the March on Top Gear but the Nissan Leaf, and James drove the Peugoet Ion.

Edited August 5, 2011 by beano2274

[Tonykalniev]

Top Gear set it up. They drained the batteries before the episode was filmed. They also staged the Tesla Roadster. They don't enjoy EV's as they are silent and have no smell.

I read new tech everyday. There was another post which compared petrol, diesel, biofuel coal and solar. Then it compared how many acres of land each needs to power one car, either to extract or produce. solar wins by far!

please watch the below show for more detail on how to combine both solar and EV:

http://www.youtube.com/user/fullychargedshow#p/u/11/PZyvjXHlBvA

And the excuse of the battery lasting 5-10 years, think of what time of batteries will be then. The Nissan leaf's batteries are 98% recyclable, as the company itself promised. They take the old packs and refurbish them.

Price of course is a different issue. Give EV's a chance. They are better than what there is now.

[thaicbr]

Ok. Tony i will bite.

What is the range of the Leaf on a full charge at an average 90kmh?

[beano2274]

Ok. Tony i will bite.

What is the range of the Leaf on a full charge at an average 90kmh?

Under 100kms!!!!!!!!!!

Edited August 5, 2011 by beano2274

[beano2274]

If you want the fast charger 500Volt DC, it costs around US$16,800.

[MoonRiverOasis]

Tonykalniev[/b]']

The car accelerate fast! 0-100km/h in 7 seconds

I think you mean 0-75 km/hr in 7 seconds, (the Nissan Leaf does 0-100 in 11-12 secs range) - Off the line it feels faster than this, due to it's electric motor making max. torque at 0 RPM, but the torque tails off as revs increase, so actual acceleration times to driving speeds are more like a 1.3L - 1.4L gasoline engine.

[thunder30101]

I dont get it with electric cars, with most countries electrical grids already maxed out most of the year where are they going to get all this extra power for these cars ??? And greenhouse gas ??? you are just trading one source for another that power comes mostly from dirty coal fired plants. And what about all that production of lithium and other exotic materials going in these cars. Just another dream from the environmental crowd.

[Tonykalniev]

Tonykalniev[/b]']

The car accelerate fast! 0-100km/h in 7 seconds

I think you mean 0-75 km/hr in 7 seconds, (the Nissan Leaf does 0-100 in 11-12 secs range) - Off the line it feels faster than this, due to it's electric motor making max. torque at 0 RPM, but the torque tails off as revs increase, so actual acceleration times to driving speeds are more like a 1.3L - 1.4L gasoline engine.

It is 7 seconds with one driver and sport mode. It has been tested many times. and that is why nissan has made an RC of the leaf with its original components.

Ok guys, Its good you are commenting and getting creative. But that "changing the power source to another" excuse is getting old. first off, should keep our current technology? do you know how much more polluting it is to run your 1 car on fuel??? do the logistics and R&D a little before commenting.

secondly, EV can be charged from clean sources. think of someone living near a mountain = wind power, near a stream = hydro power, thailand = solar power...I found out you can setup a refurbished (old) solar set for 20,000 baht that will slash your electric bills by more than half. do double that and you will have enough power to save electricity for your house AND your car per month. The organisation is called the Appropriate Technology Association (ATA). The are non-profit... if you are interested. think of it as a down-payment for less than a year of petrol....

[MoonRiverOasis]

Tonykalniev[/b]']

The car accelerate fast! 0-100km/h in 7 seconds

I think you mean 0-75 km/hr in 7 seconds, (the Nissan Leaf does 0-100 in 11-12 secs range) - Off the line it feels faster than this, due to it's electric motor making max. torque at 0 RPM, but the torque tails off as revs increase, so actual acceleration times to driving speeds are more like a 1.3L - 1.4L gasoline engine.

It is 7 seconds with one driver and sport mode. It has been tested many times. and that is why nissan has made an RC of the leaf with its original components.

I'm beginning to wonder whether you actually timed it. There's no way it'll do 0-100 in much less than 11 secs, no matter how much you charge the batteries, what mode you use, nor how petite the single driver is.

There were some internet myths floating around a few months ago stating 0-60mph was 7 secs, but they were based on pre-production rumors and completely incorrect - it would appear you've got your numbers from these?

EDIT: While we're at it, I'm curious what ETON said regarding the Thai price?

Edited August 6, 2011 by MoonRiverOasis

[Tonykalniev]

Tonykalniev[/b]']

The car accelerate fast! 0-100km/h in 7 seconds

I think you mean 0-75 km/hr in 7 seconds, (the Nissan Leaf does 0-100 in 11-12 secs range) - Off the line it feels faster than this, due to it's electric motor making max. torque at 0 RPM, but the torque tails off as revs increase, so actual acceleration times to driving speeds are more like a 1.3L - 1.4L gasoline engine.

It is 7 seconds with one driver and sport mode. It has been tested many times. and that is why nissan has made an RC of the leaf with its original components.

I'm beginning to wonder whether you actually timed it. There's no way it'll do 0-100 in much less than 11 secs, no matter how much you charge the batteries, what mode you use, nor how petite the single driver is.

There were some internet myths floating around a few months ago stating 0-60mph was 7 secs, but they were based on pre-production rumors and completely incorrect - it would appear you've got your numbers from these?

EDIT: While we're at it, I'm curious what ETON said regarding the Thai price?

Well, if you want go to test drive it at eton. its free. all you need is to make an appointment.

Of course the price is based on the thai tax (200%),. imported from japan at 900,000 baht, it becomes 2,700,000 baht. Its rediculous. that is not his fault, but the government. but if it is priced at 900,000 baht in thailand, would you buy it? its cheaper than most cars, faster and never pay fuel, oil changes, never morry about maintenance for the next 7 years or so, other than tires and brakes...

so try it, time it, decide...

[MoonRiverOasis]

It is 7 seconds with one driver and sport mode. It has been tested many times. and that is why nissan has made an RC of the leaf with its original components.

I'm beginning to wonder whether you actually timed it. There's no way it'll do 0-100 in much less than 11 secs, no matter how much you charge the batteries, what mode you use, nor how petite the single driver is.

There were some internet myths floating around a few months ago stating 0-60mph was 7 secs, but they were based on pre-production rumors and completely incorrect - it would appear you've got your numbers from these?

EDIT: While we're at it, I'm curious what ETON said regarding the Thai price?

Well, if you want go to test drive it at eton. its free. all you need is to make an appointment.

Of course the price is based on the thai tax (200%),. imported from japan at 900,000 baht, it becomes 2,700,000 baht. Its rediculous. that is not his fault, but the government. but if it is priced at 900,000 baht in thailand, would you buy it? its cheaper than most cars, faster and never pay fuel, oil changes, never morry about maintenance for the next 7 years or so, other than tires and brakes...

so try it, time it, decide...

Someone got something wrong there - there's only 10% excise tax on Electric and Hybrid cars in TH, so even with the 80% import duty, interior tax and VAT, the total taxes on 900K Baht CIF would be 1,047,640 Baht.

I'm not getting into the Electric vs Oil debate as it's futile - at this point in time in Thailand, oil wins and electric loses no matter how you cut it. Hopefully that'll change in the future though..

[Tonykalniev]

here is a link that shows it clearly. sorry i didnt take a video of it myself.

http://www.youtube.com/user/fullychargedshow#p/u/9/6m_iIbX0gmA

now range: 200 km full charge. obviously it various on your driving. if 90km/hr, it will be around ~140km...200km is for 70 cruising...However, nissan stated that even if you push your car and have every electronic gadget on, you will never lower your range less than 100km...which seems fair enough.

I didnt have the time to test this cruising range...sorry about that. Nevertheless, i am not a automotive journalist, just a guy with a dream...

[Tonykalniev]

It is 7 seconds with one driver and sport mode. It has been tested many times. and that is why nissan has made an RC of the leaf with its original components.

I'm beginning to wonder whether you actually timed it. There's no way it'll do 0-100 in much less than 11 secs, no matter how much you charge the batteries, what mode you use, nor how petite the single driver is.

There were some internet myths floating around a few months ago stating 0-60mph was 7 secs, but they were based on pre-production rumors and completely incorrect - it would appear you've got your numbers from these?

EDIT: While we're at it, I'm curious what ETON said regarding the Thai price?

Well, if you want go to test drive it at eton. its free. all you need is to make an appointment.

Of course the price is based on the thai tax (200%),. imported from japan at 900,000 baht, it becomes 2,700,000 baht. Its rediculous. that is not his fault, but the government. but if it is priced at 900,000 baht in thailand, would you buy it? its cheaper than most cars, faster and never pay fuel, oil changes, never morry about maintenance for the next 7 years or so, other than tires and brakes...

so try it, time it, decide...

Someone got something wrong there - there's only 10% excise tax on Electric and Hybrid cars in TH, so even with the 80% import duty, interior tax and VAT, the total taxes on 900K Baht CIF would be 1,047,640 Baht.

I'm not getting into the Electric vs Oil debate as it's futile - at this point in time in Thailand, oil wins and electric loses no matter how you cut it. Hopefully that'll change in the future though..

Yep. i have research the tax here as well. thailand has no clear tax structure for ev. I guess the owner of eton has incorporated his profit as well. Just digging for this info gives you a headache mate. He brought in the tesla and it will cost about 8.5 million baht, which is exactly the 200% tax, because the tesla is not the top model...

[MoonRiverOasis]

Yep. i have research the tax here as well. thailand has no clear tax structure for ev. I guess the owner of eton has incorporated his profit as well. Just digging for this info gives you a headache mate. He brought in the tesla and it will cost about 8.5 million baht, which is exactly the 200% tax, because the tesla is not the top model...

The excise tax for electric vehicles has been clear and concise for several years now - it's 10% excise tax, the same as Hybrids. All other taxes (import, interior and VAT) as per normal.

No research necessary for me, it's part of my job

[Tonykalniev]

Yep. i have research the tax here as well. thailand has no clear tax structure for ev. I guess the owner of eton has incorporated his profit as well. Just digging for this info gives you a headache mate. He brought in the tesla and it will cost about 8.5 million baht, which is exactly the 200% tax, because the tesla is not the top model...

The excise tax for electric vehicles has been clear and concise for several years now - it's 10% excise tax, the same as Hybrids. All other taxes (import, interior and VAT) as per normal.

No research necessary for me, it's part of my job

allright. I dont know the tax here very well. but those are the prices stated by eton. anyway, I am going to convert my toyota yaris into an electric car soon. can you tell me the process for registration? it is an existing body chassis so safety is still there, but total refurbishment of the power-train. it will be fully electric. do i just need to show what i am going to change to it?

[Tarric]

Tonykalniev[/b]']

The car accelerate fast! 0-100km/h in 7 seconds

I think you mean 0-75 km/hr in 7 seconds, (the Nissan Leaf does 0-100 in 11-12 secs range) - Off the line it feels faster than this, due to it's electric motor making max. torque at 0 RPM, but the torque tails off as revs increase, so actual acceleration times to driving speeds are more like a 1.3L - 1.4L gasoline engine.

It is 7 seconds with one driver and sport mode. It has been tested many times. and that is why nissan has made an RC of the leaf with its original components.

Ok guys, Its good you are commenting and getting creative. But that "changing the power source to another" excuse is getting old. first off, should keep our current technology? do you know how much more polluting it is to run your 1 car on fuel??? do the logistics and R&D a little before commenting.

secondly, EV can be charged from clean sources. think of someone living near a mountain = wind power, near a stream = hydro power, thailand = solar power...I found out you can setup a refurbished (old) solar set for 20,000 baht that will slash your electric bills by more than half. do double that and you will have enough power to save electricity for your house AND your car per month. The organisation is called the Appropriate Technology Association (ATA). The are non-profit... if you are interested. think of it as a down-payment for less than a year of petrol....

I dont wish to be too condescending but a 20,000bht solar power sytem isnt going to be able to put out anywhere near enough of a charge to make a Nissan Leaf carbon neutral. A single new 250W solar panel in Thailand will set you back around 25,000bht, thats just the panel let alone the installation, inverter and wiring costs. That 250W panel even if one of high effeciency (which would cost far more than 25k) it would still only put out roughly 1-1.25KW/h of electricity per day. So unless you got the bargain of the century I highly doubt you are coming within even 10% of the electricity used by your car.

I'm not down on electric vehicles, my company tried to sell electric vehicles with a range of 250km based upon the Ford Fiesta platform to the government and private enterprise but no one in Thailand was willing to play ball. I understand why, if you get stuck in one of Bangkok's famous traffic jams your choices are either roast or run out of electricity.

Also Nissan's numbers arent based on having the A/C on flat chat all the time as you have to in Thailand.

The averageThai in 2010 used 2055kw/h of electricity per year, so thats roughly 5.63kw/h per day. A 2.0Kw system that puts around 8-9kw/h a day and costs over 400,000bht at least, my company is looking at getting into the market and bringing that down closer to 300k but its still expensive when its mainly being used to fuel a car.

Edit: The Nissan Leaf will use 1kw/h per 5.47km, so if you drive 50km's a day thats all of the power generated from a 9 panel 2.0Kw solar power system.

Also i'm all for clean vehicles, my personal belief is that hydrogen power is the future both for cars and commercial generation. However solar has a place for homes where energy usage is overall much less than a car.

Edited August 6, 2011 by Tarric

[Tonykalniev]

Yes i do know the prices for the new solar panels and i was surprised when i read the article myself too. Here it is:

http://www.bangkokpo...solar-solutions

one solar panel at 400 baht is nice. the guy had a bill of 4400 baht per month. a 20,000 baht setup made him slash it by half to 2500 per month. I think that is effective. if you do double that you could essentially go off the grid, especially if you have an electric car.

my bill currently is 2000 baht. his setup would almost get me off the grid. once i have an electric car, just install that double setup and you are set...so 40,000 is needed i guess...

Edited August 6, 2011 by Tonykalniev

[Tarric]

Yes i do know the prices for the new solar panels and i was surprised when i read the article myself too. Here it is:

http://www.bangkokpo...solar-solutions

one solar panel at 400 baht is nice. the guy had a bill of 4400 baht per month. a 20,000 baht setup made him slash it by half to 2500 per month. I think that is effective. if you do double that you could essentially go off the grid, especially if you have an electric car.

my bill currently is 2000 baht. his setup would almost get me off the grid. once i have an electric car, just install that double setup and you are set...so 40,000 is needed i guess...

I understand that solar systems can be made quite cheaply, however most of us arent going to messing around with defective solar panels and old car batterys. For the rest of us to put it together safely it would cost as I said a couple of hundred thousand baht. Also being carbon neutral and not having an electricity bill are two very different things in Thailand, if you get the feed in tariff for producing clean energy you get 11bht per kw/h, however buying electricity costs only 3bht per kw/h.

I admire what your trying to do, I really do, but I dont really think its possible with the best of the current solar technology let alone with a bunch of old car batterys and defective panels.

If you drive even 100km per day thats 18.28kw/h of energy you would need a 4.5KW solar power system just to break even, to give you some sort of an idea even with top of the range panels thats 18 panels. Plus the required inverter for selling back power to the grid when you werent charging your car the cost would be quite large the inverter itself costs 150k+ retail, the guys you point out have no such issue as they are just storing the energy in car batterys (which is incredibly dangerous without the proper overcharge and overload protection).

I only point this out because I am in the solar power system industry for a living and I know how expensive this technology is especially in a place like Thailand. However if you've got your heart set on carbon neutrality i'm sure my company could help you out in a couple of months when we start business.

[Tonykalniev]

Yes i do know the prices for the new solar panels and i was surprised when i read the article myself too. Here it is:

http://www.bangkokpo...solar-solutions

one solar panel at 400 baht is nice. the guy had a bill of 4400 baht per month. a 20,000 baht setup made him slash it by half to 2500 per month. I think that is effective. if you do double that you could essentially go off the grid, especially if you have an electric car.

my bill currently is 2000 baht. his setup would almost get me off the grid. once i have an electric car, just install that double setup and you are set...so 40,000 is needed i guess...

I understand that solar systems can be made quite cheaply, however most of us arent going to messing around with defective solar panels and old car batterys. For the rest of us to put it together safely it would cost as I said a couple of hundred thousand baht. Also being carbon neutral and not having an electricity bill are two very different things in Thailand, if you get the feed in tariff for producing clean energy you get 11bht per kw/h, however buying electricity costs only 3bht per kw/h.

I admire what your trying to do, I really do, but I dont really think its possible with the best of the current solar technology let alone with a bunch of old car batterys and defective panels.

If you drive even 100km per day thats 18.28kw/h of energy you would need a 4.5KW solar power system just to break even, to give you some sort of an idea even with top of the range panels thats 18 panels. Plus the required inverter for selling back power to the grid when you werent charging your car the cost would be quite large the inverter itself costs 150k+ retail, the guys you point out have no such issue as they are just storing the energy in car batterys (which is incredibly dangerous without the proper overcharge and overload protection).

I only point this out because I am in the solar power system industry for a living and I know how expensive this technology is especially in a place like Thailand. However if you've got your heart set on carbon neutrality i'm sure my company could help you out in a couple of months when we start business.

Thanks for pointing this out to me. I also know of certain dangers involved. However, rather than doing nothing, I want to show how to become aware of energy usage. This is one step forward that doesnt involve high cost (only for the rich people). A Tesla roadster is only for those that can afford it. I dont have such a budget.

It would be great to work with you. I have a Toyota Yaris and soon will be converting it into an electric car. The conversion has an issue. If I am stuck in traffic, the motors dont regenerate so the alternators dont charge the 12 volt batteries. I need to make a solar roof for the car (similar to my profile picture) so that it can charge the 12 volt batteries. Do you think you can design such a solar panel? It has to have a smooth design the same dimensions as the original metal roof. I know it may be costly, but again, it is for a design perspective and a show piece.

Thanks again

[WarpSpeed]

Ultimately they suggested tongue-in-cheek that either a Dodgems-type overhead power system or electrified tracks on roads would be more viable solutions to transport.

Curious, why would that be tongue in cheek? Broader thinkers might recognize a real solution in that type of system..

Edited August 6, 2011 by WarpSpeed

[thaicruze]

Does everything incide feel as cheap as it looks?

[transam]

Does everything incide feel as cheap as it looks?

inside

[WarpSpeed]

Yep. i have research the tax here as well. thailand has no clear tax structure for ev. I guess the owner of eton has incorporated his profit as well. Just digging for this info gives you a headache mate. He brought in the tesla and it will cost about 8.5 million baht, which is exactly the 200% tax, because the tesla is not the top model...

The excise tax for electric vehicles has been clear and concise for several years now - it's 10% excise tax, the same as Hybrids. All other taxes (import, interior and VAT) as per normal.

No research necessary for me, it's part of my job

Yes, this is what Eton is petitioning the government to change as well as other import tax structure pertaining to electric cars.. It seems that if the governments import tax structure is relative to actual logic and process and not just an excuse to line the pockets of wealthy politicians or other then their argument is valid..

Edited August 6, 2011 by WarpSpeed

[Tonykalniev]

Hi guys, if you are interested in Ev life, check the following website. It is a good documentary of Life with Tesla. Sign in with your e-mail and check your email. you will have a free copy of the documentary.

http://lifewithtesla.com/life-with-tesla-the-documentary/

[Tarric]

Yes i do know the prices for the new solar panels and i was surprised when i read the article myself too. Here it is:

http://www.bangkokpo...solar-solutions

one solar panel at 400 baht is nice. the guy had a bill of 4400 baht per month. a 20,000 baht setup made him slash it by half to 2500 per month. I think that is effective. if you do double that you could essentially go off the grid, especially if you have an electric car.

my bill currently is 2000 baht. his setup would almost get me off the grid. once i have an electric car, just install that double setup and you are set...so 40,000 is needed i guess...

I understand that solar systems can be made quite cheaply, however most of us arent going to messing around with defective solar panels and old car batterys. For the rest of us to put it together safely it would cost as I said a couple of hundred thousand baht. Also being carbon neutral and not having an electricity bill are two very different things in Thailand, if you get the feed in tariff for producing clean energy you get 11bht per kw/h, however buying electricity costs only 3bht per kw/h.

I admire what your trying to do, I really do, but I dont really think its possible with the best of the current solar technology let alone with a bunch of old car batterys and defective panels.

If you drive even 100km per day thats 18.28kw/h of energy you would need a 4.5KW solar power system just to break even, to give you some sort of an idea even with top of the range panels thats 18 panels. Plus the required inverter for selling back power to the grid when you werent charging your car the cost would be quite large the inverter itself costs 150k+ retail, the guys you point out have no such issue as they are just storing the energy in car batterys (which is incredibly dangerous without the proper overcharge and overload protection).

I only point this out because I am in the solar power system industry for a living and I know how expensive this technology is especially in a place like Thailand. However if you've got your heart set on carbon neutrality i'm sure my company could help you out in a couple of months when we start business.

Thanks for pointing this out to me. I also know of certain dangers involved. However, rather than doing nothing, I want to show how to become aware of energy usage. This is one step forward that doesnt involve high cost (only for the rich people). A Tesla roadster is only for those that can afford it. I dont have such a budget.

It would be great to work with you. I have a Toyota Yaris and soon will be converting it into an electric car. The conversion has an issue. If I am stuck in traffic, the motors dont regenerate so the alternators dont charge the 12 volt batteries. I need to make a solar roof for the car (similar to my profile picture) so that it can charge the 12 volt batteries. Do you think you can design such a solar panel? It has to have a smooth design the same dimensions as the original metal roof. I know it may be costly, but again, it is for a design perspective and a show piece.

Thanks again

I admire you will to lead by example and by willing to cop the costs that come along with being the first to adopt new technologys.

If you know of a few people interested in roof panels for their vehicles I can ask my supplier if they would be interested in making a limited line of roof based solar panels. I dont think the panel sizing is going to be the issue though, engineering the roof so it accepts the panel without weakening the structure and watertightness of the car is going to be the challenge, I know of some manufacturers in Thailand who make flexible light panels, you could always find some way to affix them flush to the roof with some heavy duty adhesive, the air rushing over the panels would keep them down at high speed especially if you perhaps affixed a small wind deflector.

If you find enough people interested in the flexible panels I could set up some form of group buy for you with a manufacturer I know in Thailand.

Edit: If you can work out the requirements for fitting the panel i'll set what I can do finding a custom sized flat panel.

Edited August 6, 2011 by Tarric

[WarpSpeed]

You know what boggles the mind is the closed mindedness of most these days. Over a hundred years ago there was NO infrastructure for automobiles either and it was built over time with far less resources to look towards.

For example at that time there was few if any paved roads and "0", read "NO" fueling stations and to put one up was far more complicated and time consuming then just installing a few electrical wires and a charger which was also in it's infancy BTW..

The longer people hem and haw about what's not possible and avoiding the inevitable whether this form of vehicle or some other the longer it will take to actually implement such a change and the more complicated and costly it will be. JFYI the answer for the future is not an all encompassing solution but a conglomeration of many different technologies and that's the conclusion we have to come to unlike petrol vehicles there is no single system better then the others nor are ANY of them completely green alternatives as they all have their own singular draw backs on the environment..

I saw an alternative highway project proposal the other day on YouTube that has the potential to resolve many of these infrastructure issues while saving heaps of money once implemented and providing masses of jobs. It's on par with the initiative laid down by Eisenhower that everyone thought was to costly, unnecessary and impossible to implement at the time but as was proposed it was never intended to be an overnight solution and it isn't but look at it today.

President Obama is losing a great opportunity here to bolster the economy, put people to work nationally and leave his own legacy of a modern energy grid system and green energy solution for the entire nation..

Here's the link:

It's a bit long, complicated and difficult to watch and obviously the proposer did not have a professional budget to work with but if you focus on the message and not the way it's presented the thinking is sound and logical..Check it out and send on the link maybe someone in a powerful position will be insightful enough to recognize it's feasibility and infrastructure changing potential.

Edited August 6, 2011 by WarpSpeed

[Tarric]

You know what boggles the mind is the closed mindedness of most these days. over a hundred years ago there was NO infrastructure for automobiles either and it was built over time with fart less resources to look towards.

For example at that time there was few if any paved roads and "0", read "NO" fueling stations and to put one up was far more complicated and time consuming then just installing a few electrical wires and a charger which was also in it's infancy BTW..

The longer people hem and haw about what's not possible and avoiding the inevitable whether this form of vehicle or some other the longer it will take to actually implement such a change and the more complicated and costly it will be. JFYI the answer for the future is not an all encompassing solution but a conglomeration of many different technologies and that's the conclusion we have to come to unlike petrol vehicles there is no single system better then the others nor are ANY of them completely green alternatives as they all have their own singular draw backs on the environment..

I saw an alternative highway project proposal the other day on YouTube that has the potential to resolve many of these infrastructure issues while saving heaps of money once implemented and providing masses of jobs. It's on par with the initiative laid down by Eisenhower that everyone thought was unnecessary and impossible to implement at the time but as was proposed it was never intended to be an overnight solution and it isn't but look at it today.

President Obama is losing a great opportunity here to bolster the economy, put people to work nationally and leave his own legacy of modern energy grid system and green energy solution for the entire nation..

Here's the link:

It's a bit long, complicated and difficult to watch and obviously the proposer did not have a professional budget to work with but the thinking is sound and logical..

I agree about the close mindedness in principle, however its human nature to think something relatively difficult is impossible till it is in fact accomplished.

We dont currently have the technology for charging batterys quickly and effectively without damaging their usage lifetime, nor do most nations have the infrastructure to create the electricity required for these cars to actually be green at all. It can and will be done however in the current economic climate it is looking more like being decades not years away.

That is why its my firm belief that hydrogen power cars will be sucessful they combine the potential zero emissions of electric vehicles with the convenience and familiarity of just being able to fill up your car and keep driving. The psyche of the general public is the key, thats why the electric car didnt catch on at the beginning of the 20th century, it is also why hydrogen powered cars can be a success because they are perceived as working in the same way as petrol cars by the general public, you put a gas or liquid in and then you go off and drive.

If the United States government invested some of trillions in stimulus wasted on Wall St bankers private jets they could of subsidised development of hydrogen filling stations and further develp and reduce the cost of hyrdogen powered vehicles through R&D. The intellectual property rights alone would be worth trillions in the long run as other nations attempted to catch up with the United States's green car and energy programs.

[WarpSpeed]

You know what boggles the mind is the closed mindedness of most these days. over a hundred years ago there was NO infrastructure for automobiles either and it was built over time with fart less resources to look towards.

For example at that time there was few if any paved roads and "0", read "NO" fueling stations and to put one up was far more complicated and time consuming then just installing a few electrical wires and a charger which was also in it's infancy BTW..

The longer people hem and haw about what's not possible and avoiding the inevitable whether this form of vehicle or some other the longer it will take to actually implement such a change and the more complicated and costly it will be. JFYI the answer for the future is not an all encompassing solution but a conglomeration of many different technologies and that's the conclusion we have to come to unlike petrol vehicles there is no single system better then the others nor are ANY of them completely green alternatives as they all have their own singular draw backs on the environment..

I saw an alternative highway project proposal the other day on YouTube that has the potential to resolve many of these infrastructure issues while saving heaps of money once implemented and providing masses of jobs. It's on par with the initiative laid down by Eisenhower that everyone thought was unnecessary and impossible to implement at the time but as was proposed it was never intended to be an overnight solution and it isn't but look at it today.

President Obama is losing a great opportunity here to bolster the economy, put people to work nationally and leave his own legacy of modern energy grid system and green energy solution for the entire nation..

Here's the link:

It's a bit long, complicated and difficult to watch and obviously the proposer did not have a professional budget to work with but the thinking is sound and logical..

I agree about the close mindedness in principle, however its human nature to think something relatively difficult is impossible till it is in fact accomplished.

We dont currently have the technology for charging batterys quickly and effectively without damaging their usage lifetime, nor do most nations have the infrastructure to create the electricity required for these cars to actually be green at all. It can and will be done however in the current economic climate it is looking more like being decades not years away.

That is why its my firm belief that hydrogen power cars will be sucessful they combine the potential zero emissions of electric vehicles with the convenience and familiarity of just being able to fill up your car and keep driving. The psyche of the general public is the key, thats why the electric car didnt catch on at the beginning of the 20th century, it is also why hydrogen powered cars can be a success because they are perceived as working in the same way as petrol cars by the general public, you put a gas or liquid in and then you go off and drive.

If the United States government invested some of trillions in stimulus wasted on Wall St bankers private jets they could of subsidised development of hydrogen filling stations and further develp and reduce the cost of hyrdogen powered vehicles through R&D. The intellectual property rights alone would be worth trillions in the long run as other nations attempted to catch up with the United States's green car and energy programs.

Hydrogens problem is a serious safety issue though and it also has the potential to be converted to a very serious bomb threat in the wrong hands so with the current world unrest I think it's highly unlikely to get a really close look for quite some time if ever until it can be properly contained..

Edited August 6, 2011 by WarpSpeed