Thai Police Suspect They Have Found Bodies Of 169 Missing Red-Shirts

[Siripon]

Whatever the spin anybody tries to put on this strange story, I would be astonished if anything politically substantive came of it. Long and careful negotiations have taken place between the newly democratically elected government and their opponents to keep out of each others' faces on anything of importance. There will be plenty of hot air from political loudmouths of all sides (and, correspondingly and entertainingly, on all the assorted internet forums), but the major players seem to understand the delicate balance of things at the moment. I doubt there will be any game changing moves in the near future, and finding evidence of mass-murder by the military (however genuine or fake) would be a very big game changer.

The spin has already been done and has been successful. The aim wasn't for anything politically substantive to come from it, seeing as there was absolutely no evidence of there being any red shirts, and actually all evidence pointing to there NOT being any red shirts buried there.

The aim was to plant the idea that they ARE mass graves of red shirts or that there ARE mass graves of red shirts out there somewhere. Even though the story was effectively retracted by R.A. the red shirts and the PTP are still talking up the idea that there are missing red shirts buried there.

I agree, apart from the above, the whole thing is a lesson in distraction and diversion from Surapong's blunder regarding the Japanese visa and possibly the debate on Pheua Thai policies tomorrow and Wednesday.

The investigation is ordered by Pojaman's brother!

Too obvious boys, more practice in deception is required.

[Siam Simon]

Whatever the spin anybody tries to put on this strange story, I would be astonished if anything politically substantive came of it. Long and careful negotiations have taken place between the newly democratically elected government and their opponents to keep out of each others' faces on anything of importance. There will be plenty of hot air from political loudmouths of all sides (and, correspondingly and entertainingly, on all the assorted internet forums), but the major players seem to understand the delicate balance of things at the moment. I doubt there will be any game changing moves in the near future, and finding evidence of mass-murder by the military (however genuine or fake) would be a very big game changer.

Dear Simon, I can agree with most, but the very last sentence spoils it. The very mentioning of 'mass-murder by the military' indicates you're not really objective. The topic indicates that one or two years ago around 165 bodies were buried, having been moved from elsewhere. Nothing more, nothing less. Why the mention of a real/fake mass-murder by the military? What would you say if I mentioned 'at this moment there is no indication that any of the bodies might be related to brutally murdered yellow-shirts, from the time when the police was acting on the previous PM's Samak/Somchai's orders.'?

Indeed, while purporting to not having formed an opinion, his last bit attempts to re-associate the original "spin", that he refers to, by reinforcing the notion of the title, "169 Missing Red-Shirts"

.

It's like trying to debate Christian fundamentalists at times on here .

[Siam Simon]

Whatever the spin anybody tries to put on this strange story, I would be astonished if anything politically substantive came of it. Long and careful negotiations have taken place between the newly democratically elected government and their opponents to keep out of each others' faces on anything of importance. There will be plenty of hot air from political loudmouths of all sides (and, correspondingly and entertainingly, on all the assorted internet forums), but the major players seem to understand the delicate balance of things at the moment. I doubt there will be any game changing moves in the near future, and finding evidence of mass-murder by the military (however genuine or fake) would be a very big game changer.

The spin has already been done and has been successful. The aim wasn't for anything politically substantive to come from it, seeing as there was absolutely no evidence of there being any red shirts, and actually all evidence pointing to there NOT being any red shirts buried there.

The aim was to plant the idea that they ARE mass graves of red shirts or that there ARE mass graves of red shirts out there somewhere. Even though the story was effectively retracted by R.A. the red shirts and the PTP are still talking up the idea that there are missing red shirts buried there.

You could well be right, and that's the angle I'm most interested in, but it's worth waiting for a bit more detail first.

[TAWP]

It's like trying to debate Christian fundamentalists at times on here .

Indeed, it is annoying when people argue without proof and revert back to 'this is my belief and I have a right to it' when pressured.

So, again, what mass-murder are you talking about? So, is it your belief that somewhere in the country there is a mass-grave of red shirts?

[Siam Simon]

It's like trying to debate Christian fundamentalists at times on here .

Indeed, it is annoying when people argue without proof and revert back to 'this is my belief and I have a right to it' when pressured.

So, again, what mass-murder are you talking about? So, is it your belief that somewhere in the country there is a mass-grave of red shirts?

Please excuse me while I go and find a brick wall to bang my head against.

[kennkate]

I was under the impression that all Thai people had to carry ID. Did they all turn up without any ID ? If they did where are the ID cards.? Someone must know who they were.

Edited August 22, 2011 by kennkate

[Moruya]

I shall pin this here for reference.

For all you daft idle buggers that think of nothing but conspiracy theories - I await your responses to where these may have come from. Maybe all the dead redshirts from the million man-march found a time machine.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/39079.stm

Thanks to the BBC's news archives.

Choc dee!

[rubl]

Robert A. still at it

"As the bodies of 169 people were being disinterred from a mass grave in a temple in the town of Rayong, which of course may well not relate to the missing Red Shirt protesters killed in 2010 (unfortunately we have to assume they are more experienced in the disposal of the disappeared), Prayuth nevertheless reacted hysterically in defense. Instead of the kind of respectful silence, or perhaps a carefully considered statement of mourning, Prayuth decided to issued a threat. The good general stated that he would sue anyone who claimed that the Rayong temple bodies had any links to any military action."

http://robertamsterdam.com/thailand/?p=927

Having read most of the posts here I got the impression lots of people reacted hysterically, police, red-shirts, posters. I don't remember having read the good general would sue, only him urging calm

"Army chief General Prayuth Chan-ocha on Friday urged for calm following the discovery of three mass graves where 169 bodies were buried under suspicious circumstances in Rayong."

Maybe the good general should sue Robert A for defamation instead ?

(PS bodies being disinterred, in Robert A.'s post of the 20th of August 2011? I thought that would start tomorrow or so)

Edited August 22, 2011 by rubl

[overhaul38]

I think everyone should wait for a complete, unbiased (very important requirement) autopsy and investigation before speculating.

Edited August 22, 2011 by overhaul38

[whybother]

I think everyone should wait for a complete, unbiased (very important requirement) autopsy and investigation before speculating.

"before speculating" - Too late.

[RickThai]

I think the find says a lot about "Abhist''s (i.e. Yellow Shirt) government.

The very fact that the news only turned up after the new government took office, would raise the question of why wasn't this reported in the news when the bodies were initially brought in to be interred?

Even in Thailand you would think one of the abbots or one of the individuals who actually buried the bodies would have tipped off the newspapers or a radio station.

Oh yeah, I forgot that the "news" was heavily censored by the government during the "yellow shirt regime" and radio stations controlled with dissenting media sources squashed.

Seems to me only the governement could clandestinely bury that many people without the news getting out. Keep in mind that these bodies were all brought in and buried in two large batches, not a few at a time if you were talking about "unclaimed" corpses.

I'm sure "yellow government" supporters will come up with all kinds of hypothetical reasons why the mass buryings were totally above-board and had nothing to do with the "yellow" government.

I have to admire the creativeness that people use when trying to justify some unjustifiable act in support of somet belief they try to cling to.

Edited August 22, 2011 by RickThai

[whybother]

I think the find says a lot about "Abhist''s (i.e. Yellow Shirt) government.

The very fact that the news only turned up after the new government took office, would raise the question of why wasn't this reported in the news when the bodies were initially brought in to be interred?

Even in Thailand you would think one of the abbots or one of the individuals who actually buried the bodies would have tipped off the newspapers or a radio station.

Oh yeah, I forgot that the "news" was heavily censored by the government during the "yellow shirt regime" and radio stations controlled with dissenting media sources squashed.

Seems to me only the governement could clandestinely bury that many people without the news getting out. Keep in mind that these bodies were all brought in and buried in two large batches, not a few at a time if you were talking about "unclaimed" corpses.

I'm sure "yellow government" supporters will come up with all kinds of hypothetical reasons why the mass buryings were totally above-board and had nothing to do with the "yellow" government.

I have to admire the creativeness that people use when trying to justify some unjustifiable act in support of somet belief they try to cling to.

OMG! Words fail me.

edit: just imagine the number of brain washed red shirt supporters out there that still believe that these bodies are actually missing red shirt protesters.

Edited August 22, 2011 by whybother

[TAWP]

I think the find says a lot about "Abhist''s (i.e. Yellow Shirt) government.

The very fact that the news only turned up after the new government took office, would raise the question of why wasn't this reported in the news when the bodies were initially brought in to be interred?

// rest of the rambling removed //

Proof that R.A. post was intended and perfectly executed - spin/lie/make stuff up for your paymaster Thaksin and see the red shirts and their apologists repeat the, later retracted, nonsense for years to come.

[animatic]

They dig up 'potters field' of indigent persons, in 3 wats and try to blame it on their enemies, and make their porkies from 2009 riots turn to truths in some eyes.... as soon as they have the upper hand. Distraction slight of hand and dis-information from the REAL stories of the day. The whole political story stinks to high heaven, nothing more than a mechanism to keep the Army and Dems on the back foot for a short while, while they try to get Thaksin back on Thai soil and finger back on the button.

Hardly believable that the army would hide victims in wats, when there is kilometers of jungle to make them completely disappear in.

[mca]

Hardly believable that the army would hide victims in wats, when there is kilometers of jungle to make them completely disappear in.

Or as in Tak Bai " So f#cking what?"

[Ricardo]

I have to admire the creativeness that people use when trying to justify some unjustifiable act in support of somet belief they try to cling to.

So you're a great fan of R.A. then ?

[LindsayBKK]

Well it seems that the bodies are from a cemetery, they needed to move bodies out.

Of course the red shirts would claim they were from the Red Shirts Rally but sorry

the bodies are more than 5 years old.

Nice try. Red Shirts just can't get out of the newspapers can they?

Edited August 23, 2011 by LindsayBKK

[webfact]

Police Chief: Transport of 165 Mysterious Bodies Lawful

The police chief says an investigation suggests that the 165 unidentified bodies found at temples in Rayong Province have been found to belong to people who died between 1998 and 2007.

National Police Chief, Police General Wichien Pojphosri said the investigation into the relocation of the 165 unidentified human bodies from the Buddha Prateep foundation in Chumphon Province to the Phuttasart Songkroh foundation in Rayong Province found that most of the corpses date back to between 1998 and 2007.

He noted that they are those of people who died in accidents and of disease in Chumphon and Surat Thani provinces and had no relatives.

Wichien added that 162 of the corpses were men and three were women, and only 18 have been identified.

Rayong Provincial Governor Thawatchai Terdphaothai said after a meeting with representatives from the Phuttasart Songkroh Foundation that the transportation of the bodies is legitimate and the process was transparent.

He believes that the issue will be settled soon and will not disrupt a cemetery clearing ceremony that is being organized by the foundation to be held in November.

The discovery of the bodies stirred up rumors about security officials having hidden bodies of red-shirt members who were killed in the bloody mayhem that ensued the crackdown of the red-shirt protest in May of 2010.

-- Tan Network 2011-08-23

[whybother]

I assume there will be retractions flying in from PTP and red shirt supporters ... not.

[animatic]

Hardly believable that the army would hide victims in wats, when there is kilometers of jungle to make them completely disappear in.

Or as in Tak Bai " So f#cking what?"

Yes, a qualified yes,

these 'potential victims' being from a much larger demographic group than the Tak Bai victims, but yes I agree the army wouldn't bother, and have much better and more permanent means. We'll just keep watching and parse the players and the sides they cleave towards.

.

This is politics using the dead indigent as cudgels in a political battle. And is morally reprehensible, but not unexpected. It seems any weapon is fair play against political enemies.

Edited August 23, 2011 by animatic

[londonthai]

... most of the corpses date back to between 1998 and 2007. ... officials having hidden bodies of red-shirt members who were killed in the bloody mayhem that ensued the crackdown of the red-shirt protest in May of 2010.

still, some of the 169 bodies are of the dead after 2007 and some might be from 2010. All the bodies should be examined, to exclude a possibility of missing tens/hundreds of people/bodies which disappeared in may 2010.

I would think that all mass graves since aprill 2010 should be diged up and bodies exhumed and their dna checked.

generally if there is no corpse, there is no crime and those responsible for murder can't be easily prosecuted.

there were stories about bodies found in the containers at the thai gulf.

There are as well stories about dead being fed at the crocodile farms associated with army, where nothing remains - the bones are digested as well and those feeding crocodiles are scared to talk, because they might be the next in the pound. I have heard about it from my cousins, but there won't be any news report or investigation, as nobody will talk and there are no remains

[whybother]

... most of the corpses date back to between 1998 and 2007. ... officials having hidden bodies of red-shirt members who were killed in the bloody mayhem that ensued the crackdown of the red-shirt protest in May of 2010.

still, some of the 169 bodies are of the dead after 2007 and some might be from 2010. All the bodies should be examined, to exclude a possibility of missing tens/hundreds of people/bodies which disappeared in may 2010.

I would think that all mass graves since aprill 2010 should be diged up and bodies exhumed and their dna checked.

generally if there is no corpse, there is no crime and those responsible for murder can't be easily prosecuted.

there were stories about bodies found in the containers at the thai gulf.

There are as well stories about dead being fed at the crocodile farms associated with army, where nothing remains - the bones are digested as well and those feeding crocodiles are scared to talk, because they might be the next in the pound. I have heard about it from my cousins, but there won't be any news report or investigation, as nobody will talk and there are no remains

Or maybe they're bodies from Thaksin's war on drugs.

[hammered]

... most of the corpses date back to between 1998 and 2007. ... officials having hidden bodies of red-shirt members who were killed in the bloody mayhem that ensued the crackdown of the red-shirt protest in May of 2010.

still, some of the 169 bodies are of the dead after 2007 and some might be from 2010. All the bodies should be examined, to exclude a possibility of missing tens/hundreds of people/bodies which disappeared in may 2010.

I would think that all mass graves since aprill 2010 should be diged up and bodies exhumed and their dna checked.

generally if there is no corpse, there is no crime and those responsible for murder can't be easily prosecuted.

there were stories about bodies found in the containers at the thai gulf.

There are as well stories about dead being fed at the crocodile farms associated with army, where nothing remains - the bones are digested as well and those feeding crocodiles are scared to talk, because they might be the next in the pound. I have heard about it from my cousins, but there won't be any news report or investigation, as nobody will talk and there are no remains

Or maybe they're bodies from Thaksin's war on drugs.

Whereever they are from it should be cleared up

[whybother]

Whereever they are from it should be cleared up

It has been, but that doesn't stop people speculating that there are red shirts there.

[hammered]

Whereever they are from it should be cleared up

It has been, but that doesn't stop people speculating that there are red shirts there.

So who are they? I missed the paperwork the authorities produced.

[whybother]

Whereever they are from it should be cleared up

It has been, but that doesn't stop people speculating that there are red shirts there.

So who are they? I missed the paperwork the authorities produced.

Read a few posts back.

[Siripon]

Whereever they are from it should be cleared up

It has been, but that doesn't stop people speculating that there are red shirts there.

So who are they? I missed the paperwork the authorities produced.

Ask Police chief Wichian from 8 posts above.

[hammered]

Whereever they are from it should be cleared up

It has been, but that doesn't stop people speculating that there are red shirts there.

So who are they? I missed the paperwork the authorities produced.

Read a few posts back.

cheers

[rubl]

There are as well stories about dead being fed at the crocodile farms associated with army, where nothing remains - the bones are digested as well and those feeding crocodiles are scared to talk, because they might be the next in the pound. I have heard about it from my cousins, but there won't be any news report or investigation, as nobody will talk and there are no remains

If you're running out of rumours and other postulations, PM me. I'm sure I can formulate a few more possibilities.

In the mean time, may I suggest that any bodies still buried somewhere will be dug up and identified by a team of police/army/UN/ICC with multi-page reports (and full of medical terms) being made available frequently. I'm sure when the government puts a request to the UN a grant can be made available for this highly sinister business. If necessary mobilise Robert A. c.s.

Edited August 23, 2011 by rubl

[RickThai]

I had to love all the 'creative" criticisms of my post on this topic. However, no one, came up with a rationale of why the mass buryings were not newsworthy when they were interred.

Remember, no matter what you believe: "A belief is just a thought you think!"

Edited August 23, 2011 by RickThai