British kick-boxer to be extradited to Thailand over murder of US Marine

[lennois]

Nisa, I have previously listed the source for the conflicting reports of the GF.

The source cannot be linked to or quoted on Thaivisa due to legal issues, see the forum rules.

The name of the newspaper is Phuket Wan, and the report was that she was asleep, was woken by the noise, went to the livingroom to see the vidtim on the ground and 'a man' leaving through the broken glass/door.

Now where are your answers to my yes or no questions, or do you have to ignore this too?

So which is more likely, the witness keeps changing her story or the notoriously useless thai press misreports it?

I would suggest the latter but I'm sure either is quite possible.

One things for sure, our local 'random' policeman can use as many caps as he likes when he says there are NO witnesses, doesn't change the fact he actually has no idea.

[Nisa]

Nisa, I have previously listed the source for the conflicting reports of the GF.

The source cannot be linked to or quoted on Thaivisa due to legal issues, see the forum rules.

The name of the newspaper is Phuket Wan, and the report was that she was asleep, was woken by the noise, went to the livingroom to see the vidtim on the ground and 'a man' leaving through the broken glass/door.

Now where are your answers to my yes or no questions, or do you have to ignore this too?

So which is more likely, the witness keeps changing her story or the notoriously useless thai press misreports it?

I would suggest the latter but I'm sure either is quite possible.

One things for sure, our local 'random' policeman can use as many caps as he likes when he says there are NO witnesses, doesn't change the fact he actually has no idea.

To be fair, he first said there was no witnesses, then said there was no credible witnesses and then said the witness "recanted" ... none of which he has been able to back up but that hasn't stopped him from going down this road as far as he can. But we should forgive him because we know how police love to act like defense attorneys and do everything in their power to discount facts when it comes to taking in evidence against a suspect.

[lennois]

Nisa, I have previously listed the source for the conflicting reports of the GF.

The source cannot be linked to or quoted on Thaivisa due to legal issues, see the forum rules.

The name of the newspaper is Phuket Wan, and the report was that she was asleep, was woken by the noise, went to the livingroom to see the vidtim on the ground and 'a man' leaving through the broken glass/door.

Now where are your answers to my yes or no questions, or do you have to ignore this too?

So which is more likely, the witness keeps changing her story or the notoriously useless thai press misreports it?

I would suggest the latter but I'm sure either is quite possible.

One things for sure, our local 'random' policeman can use as many caps as he likes when he says there are NO witnesses, doesn't change the fact he actually has no idea.

To be fair, he first said there was no witnesses, then said there was no credible witnesses and then said the witness "recanted" ... none of which he has been able to back up but that hasn't stopped him from going down this road as far as he can. But we should forgive him because we know how police love to act like defense attorneys and do everything in their power to discount facts when it comes to taking in evidence against a suspect.

I haven't read his every post but it in his most recent he went for "And I repeat, there are NO witnesses to the actual event, the one witness has given contradictory evidence and as such her testimony will be ripped to shreds."

Perhaps he just missed the word credible

Edited September 13, 2011 by lennois

[hehehoho]

And finally we're getting somewhere yes, there are no direct quotes from girl, only conflicting reports. Do you have direct quotes from the girl, especially from a news source outside of Thailand?? Or only newspaper reports, which happen to conflict others.

Edited September 13, 2011 by hehehoho

[hehehoho]

Have you decided on how many knives the accused apparently stole from the 7-11 yet Nisa? You seemed to be unsure.

Not that it would matter much given the blood stained knife found at the scene of the murder was reported by the police as a different knife altogether.

You also seem to be holding onto your forensic evidence claim, what forensic evidence is there? A simple list with the sources linked please. Not likely's or probablys like your last attempt.

Where is your report of the RTP even having the accused's fingerprints and DNA? Or do you not know if they even have them?

Please answer, thanks.

Nisa?

Nisa?

Edited September 13, 2011 by hehehoho

[Nisa]

Have you decided on how many knives the accused apparently stole from the 7-11 yet Nisa? You seemed to be unsure.

Not that it would matter much given the blood stained knife found at the scene of the murder was reported by the police as a different knife altogether.

You also seem to be holding onto your forensic evidence claim, what forensic evidence is there? A simple list with the sources linked please. Not likely's or probablys like your last attempt.

Where is your report of the RTP even having the accused's fingerprints and DNA? Or do you not know if they even have them?

Please answer, thanks.

Nisa?

Nisa?

Already answered re: forensics but still waiting for you to show the QUOTE(s) from the girlfriend where she changed her story. I've provided the quote from her showing she witnessed the murder but you still refuse to provide any QUOTE(s) from her where she stated different.

If you read many of the newspapers stories, there are reports which state he stole two knives. I simply wrote knive(s) because all the facts are not in, just as I wrote 'QUOTE(s) in the above statement in case there is more than one. You lack of understanding of such basic things as well as latching onto such silly things while ignoring the big picture or relevant things makes debating with you kind of pointless.

[Nisa]

And finally we're getting somewhere yes, there are no direct quotes from girl, only conflicting reports. Do you have direct quotes from the girl, especially from a news source outside of Thailand?? Or only newspaper reports, which happen to conflict others.

The only direct quote from the girl, which appears in a number of news sources both local and globally, state she was there.

You seem to be very confused about credible reporting and credible witnesses.

Edited September 13, 2011 by Nisa

[Nisa]

I haven't read his every post but it in his most recent he went for "And I repeat, there are NO witnesses to the actual event, the one witness has given contradictory evidence and as such her testimony will be ripped to shreds."

Perhaps he just missed the word credible

What doesn't appear to be credible is your claim she is not credible.

Why is she not credible? Again, I ask for just one QUOTE from HER where she changed her story. Or show one report of anyone saying she has changed her story. There are numerous incorrect and/or contradictory things in numerous news accounts of this incident but only one quote, that I am aware of, from the girl and it says she was there when the murder took place.

Also, all reports appear to indicate the victim was giving the girl a ride home and that he was stabbed twice when he got of his bike and then ran inside. This jives completely with the girls story of seeing the suspect approach with his hands in his pockets, then producing a knife and stabbing the victim twice before they ran inside.

So, please explain why this girl is not credible ... beyond as usual reports (especially English Thai newspapers) put out contradictory information.

Edited September 13, 2011 by Nisa

[Nisa]

Already answered re: forensics

I thought you were telling us there was blood on the knives? Where is it reported that Aldhouse's blood, or any other forensic evidence linking him to the murder scene (DNA?). Or were you simply making it up that Aldhouse is forensically linked to the murder scene?

but still waiting for you to show the QUOTE(s) from the girlfriend where she changed her story.

As pointed out already (and even quoted by you) the report cannot be linked here due to Forum Rules. It is a newspaper report.

I've provided the quote from her showing she witnessed the murder but you still refuse to provide any QUOTE(s) from her where she stated different.

Can you repost the direct quote from her please? Along with your reports of the forensic evidence linking Aldhouse to the murder scene.

If you read many of the newspapers stories, there are reports which state he stole two knives. I simply wrote knive(s) because all the facts are not in,

So you don't know what he stole (if he stole anything) from the 7-11, is that correct?

Ok, you win ... there will be no forensic evidence in the case and the blood on the knives will be determined to be from a dog without doing any forensic testing. And yes, because I am not personally sure if he stole 1 or 2 knives then he probably didn't steal anything ... he must be innocent. Thanks for this incredible bit of lawyering on your part ... Perry Mason would be proud.

But I have to ask Mr. Mason ... what of your continued claims of the witness to the murder not being credible? Do you think that you can sway the judges in the case to believe she is not credible because of a reporter(s) reporting inaccurately as opposed to there not being one instance showing she SHE SAID anything but that she was there when the murder took place?

Edited September 13, 2011 by Nisa

[Oberkommando]

Given there is only one semi-competent forensic scientist in the whole country (and even the Malaysians think she's incompetent and she's facing legal proceedings accordingly), I wouldn't rely on Thai forensics to prove anything.

It must be a very scary thought having to face the Thai justice system, for anyone, innocent or guilty that hasn't sufficient funds or the right contacts to buy their way out.

[Nisa]

It must be a very scary thought having to face the Thai justice system, for anyone, innocent or guilty that hasn't sufficient funds or the right contacts to buy their way out.

One would think this to be the case in just about any country where you are accused of murder.

[F1fanatic]

The first version I heard of this crime was that he was at home when stabbed - not getting off his motorbike?

I'm fairly sure he is guilty from what I've heard, but even so - he deserves a fair trial, and he won't receive one in Thailand.

Anybody who thinks 'trial by public opinion' is OK needs to read about some of the cases where the media told everyone the 'guilty party' was guilty (and most took this as 'gospel') - only to have to recant when it was proven they weren't the murderer....

This is bad enough at the best of times but when the death penalty is involved it is even more important for a completely fair trial and absolute proof - not guilt 'cos everybody is sure that is the case.....

[Nisa]

The first version I heard of this crime was that he was at home when stabbed - not getting off his motorbike?

I'm fairly sure he is guilty from what I've heard, but even so - he deserves a fair trial, and he won't receive one in Thailand.

Anybody who thinks 'trial by public opinion' is OK needs to read about some of the cases where the media told everyone the 'guilty party' was guilty (and most took this as 'gospel') - only to have to recant when it was proven they weren't the murderer....

This is bad enough at the best of times but when the death penalty is involved it is even more important for a completely fair trial and absolute proof - not guilt 'cos everybody is sure that is the case.....

Agree he deserves a trial.

Why do you believe he will not get a fair trial in Thailand? Do you have some credible links or info to show that Thailand is motivated or benefits from locking up innocent farangs (or any people) in a case like this or has a higher rate than the rest of the world's court system in convicting innocent people?

Just an FYI ... the death penalty has been taken off the table in this case. The death penalty is also very seldom carried out in Thailand. I think 2-people have been executed in the last 8 or 10 years.

Edited September 13, 2011 by Nisa

[F1fanatic]

The first version I heard of this crime was that he was at home when stabbed - not getting off his motorbike?

I'm fairly sure he is guilty from what I've heard, but even so - he deserves a fair trial, and he won't receive one in Thailand.

Anybody who thinks 'trial by public opinion' is OK needs to read about some of the cases where the media told everyone the 'guilty party' was guilty (and most took this as 'gospel') - only to have to recant when it was proven they weren't the murderer....

This is bad enough at the best of times but when the death penalty is involved it is even more important for a completely fair trial and absolute proof - not guilt 'cos everybody is sure that is the case.....

Agree he deserves a trial.

Why do you believe he will not get a fair trial in Thailand? Do you have some credible links or info to show that Thailand is motivated or benefits from locking up innocent farangs (or any people) in a case like this or has a higher rate than the rest of the world's court system in convicting innocent people?

Just an FYI ... the death penalty has been taken off the table in this case. The death penalty is also very seldom carried out in Thailand. I think 2-people have been executed in the last 8 or 10 years.

How long have you lived here?? Do you honestly think the Thai justice system is based on justice??

I'm v sorry but I can't be arsed to look up links - google it for yourself.

As I said before, it sounds as if he is guilty BUT, whilst the UK courts are not exactly perfect, I trust them more than Thai courts.

He would be a foreigner not understanding the language or legal system in Thailand. At least he can make a case in his own language in the UK.

[Richard4849]

Give it up about a trial in the UK for the love of God. There was no crime there, no jurisdiction there. In other words AIN'T GONNA HAPPEN.

[Nisa]

The first version I heard of this crime was that he was at home when stabbed - not getting off his motorbike?

I'm fairly sure he is guilty from what I've heard, but even so - he deserves a fair trial, and he won't receive one in Thailand.

Anybody who thinks 'trial by public opinion' is OK needs to read about some of the cases where the media told everyone the 'guilty party' was guilty (and most took this as 'gospel') - only to have to recant when it was proven they weren't the murderer....

This is bad enough at the best of times but when the death penalty is involved it is even more important for a completely fair trial and absolute proof - not guilt 'cos everybody is sure that is the case.....

Agree he deserves a trial.

Why do you believe he will not get a fair trial in Thailand? Do you have some credible links or info to show that Thailand is motivated or benefits from locking up innocent farangs (or any people) in a case like this or has a higher rate than the rest of the world's court system in convicting innocent people?

Just an FYI ... the death penalty has been taken off the table in this case. The death penalty is also very seldom carried out in Thailand. I think 2-people have been executed in the last 8 or 10 years.

I'm v sorry but I can't be arsed to look up links - google it for yourself.

He would be a foreigner not understanding the language or legal system in Thailand. At least he can make a case in his own language in the UK.

How about just elaborating your reasoning (using facts) as to why you believe he will not get a fair trial in Thailand. Certainly you must be aware of some facts to make such a statement.

As for the language, I find this to be a rational point but not one that holds any weight legally. He will be provided a translator and/or bilingual attorney if he doesn't hire his own. People all over the world (even in the UK) face trials who don't speak the local language. But again, I find this to be a valid concern and just wondering if there is anything else (factual) to back up the claim he will not receive a fair trial in Thailand.

Edited September 13, 2011 by Nisa

[F1fanatic]

Give it up about a trial in the UK for the love of God. There was no crime there, no jurisdiction there. In other words AIN'T GONNA HAPPEN.

OK sorry. I don't know enough about the law to realise he can't be 'tried' in the UK. But I still think he should be.

[Nisa]

There is a VERY TINY possibility using some old law that a murderer "possibly" could be prosecuted in the UK but this is HIGHLY unlikely.

The UK authorities have already determined there is enough evidence to send him to Thailand for trial and there is also near zero chance he will win the fight for extradition based on human rights as Thailand and the UK have a mutually agreed upon extradition treaty which they would not have entered into or would withdraw from if these concerns existed. Not to mention that if he did win then it would be a green light for every UK citizen to come to Thailand commit horrendous crimes (short of murder) and then return to the UK with no fear what-so-ever of being prosecuted.

It is just not going to happen ... it is going to take some time but he is going to sit in jail in the UK (receiving no credit for this time if convicted) until he is extradited to Thailand to face trial.

[F1fanatic]

The first version I heard of this crime was that he was at home when stabbed - not getting off his motorbike?

I'm fairly sure he is guilty from what I've heard, but even so - he deserves a fair trial, and he won't receive one in Thailand.

Anybody who thinks 'trial by public opinion' is OK needs to read about some of the cases where the media told everyone the 'guilty party' was guilty (and most took this as 'gospel') - only to have to recant when it was proven they weren't the murderer....

This is bad enough at the best of times but when the death penalty is involved it is even more important for a completely fair trial and absolute proof - not guilt 'cos everybody is sure that is the case.....

Agree he deserves a trial.

Why do you believe he will not get a fair trial in Thailand? Do you have some credible links or info to show that Thailand is motivated or benefits from locking up innocent farangs (or any people) in a case like this or has a higher rate than the rest of the world's court system in convicting innocent people?

Just an FYI ... the death penalty has been taken off the table in this case. The death penalty is also very seldom carried out in Thailand. I think 2-people have been executed in the last 8 or 10 years.

I'm v sorry but I can't be arsed to look up links - google it for yourself.

He would be a foreigner not understanding the language or legal system in Thailand. At least he can make a case in his own language in the UK.

How about just elaborating your reasoning (using facts) as to why you believe he will not get a fair trial in Thailand. Certainly you must be aware of some facts to make such a statement.

As for the language, I find this to be a rational point but not one that holds any weight legally. He will be provided a translator and/or bilingual attorney if he doesn't hire his own. People all over the world (even in the UK) face trials who don't speak the local language. But again, I find this to be a valid concern and just wondering if there is anything else (factual) to back up the claim he will not receive a fair trial in Thailand.

As I said before, how long have you lived here?

I'm willing to bet money that anyone who has lived here for a few years knows that the justice system depends on money.

I could tell you two stories from people I know that lived here, but obviously can't.

As I said in an earlier post, the first time I read about this the victim was at home, not getting off his motorbike.

Anyway, a bargirl from the Freedom Bar will have zero credibility with the judges, whether she has changed her story or not.

Edited September 13, 2011 by F1fanatic

[Nisa]

Agree he deserves a trial.

Why do you believe he will not get a fair trial in Thailand? Do you have some credible links or info to show that Thailand is motivated or benefits from locking up innocent farangs (or any people) in a case like this or has a higher rate than the rest of the world's court system in convicting innocent people?

Just an FYI ... the death penalty has been taken off the table in this case. The death penalty is also very seldom carried out in Thailand. I think 2-people have been executed in the last 8 or 10 years.

I'm v sorry but I can't be arsed to look up links - google it for yourself.

He would be a foreigner not understanding the language or legal system in Thailand. At least he can make a case in his own language in the UK.

How about just elaborating your reasoning (using facts) as to why you believe he will not get a fair trial in Thailand. Certainly you must be aware of some facts to make such a statement.

As for the language, I find this to be a rational point but not one that holds any weight legally. He will be provided a translator and/or bilingual attorney if he doesn't hire his own. People all over the world (even in the UK) face trials who don't speak the local language. But again, I find this to be a valid concern and just wondering if there is anything else (factual) to back up the claim he will not receive a fair trial in Thailand.

I'm willing to bet money that anyone who has lived here for a few years knows that the justice system depends on money.

I could tell you two stories from people I know that lived here, but obviously can't.

Basically it sounds like you have come to this conclusion by listening the curmudgeon expats.

As for money ... isn't that the way it works in most of the world? People with power and money can buy their way out of trouble and/or hire the best lawyers?

But even if he could buy his way out of a conviction in Thailand ... how does this relate to his not receiving a fair trial? Sounds like you get a fair trial if you cannot buy your way out of an acquittal.

Edited September 13, 2011 by Nisa

[F1fanatic]

And you're still refusing to say how long you've lived here!

No, I know 2 true stories about expats and the justice system, regardless of the books etc.

Somehow I suspect you're American and determined to believe anything you're told.

Personally, I've come to learn (in the West as well as Thailand) to think for myself.

[Nisa]

As I said in an earlier post, the first time I read about this the victim was at home, not getting off his motorbike.

Anyway, a bargirl from the Freedom Bar will have zero credibility with the judges, whether she has changed her story or not.

Because this is what "you" read initially, are you now incapable of reading the more detailed and updated accounts?

You are clearly clueless as to how statements and witness accounts are evaluated if you really believe she will have no (or even little) credibility simply because she works at a bar or is a single parent let alone your unsubstantiated belief she is a bargirl. Most witnesses in crimes like this are not nuns or upstanding citizens as they don't hang out at bars or are on the street at 2 or 3 AM in the morning. Her credibility will largely depend on her honesty/consistency in statements and any motivation she may have to lie. To date I have not seen 1 quote from her showing she has changed her story or have I read any news report claiming she changed her story or have I read anything that anyone of the suspects lawyers have claimed she lacks credibility or has any reasonable reason been given as to why she would lie.

[Richard4849]

No, I know 2 true stories about expats and the justice system, regardless of the books etc.

Care to fill us in? Criminal or civil? What issues? What happened?

[metisdead]

A post with racist overtones has been removed as well replies to that post.

Another post overly critical of the legal proceedings in Thailand has been removed:

15) Not to use ThaiVisa.com to post any material which is knowingly or can be reasonably construed as false, inaccurate, invasive of a person's privacy, or otherwise in violation of any law. You also agree not to post negative comments criticizing the legal proceedings or judgments of any Thai court of law.

[Nisa]

And you're still refusing to say how long you've lived here!

No, I know 2 true stories about expats and the justice system, regardless of the books etc.

Somehow I suspect you're American and determined to believe anything you're told.

Personally, I've come to learn (in the West as well as Thailand) to think for myself.

LMAO --- "I" believe anything I hear???? Sounds to me like you are projecting based on your own words.

How long have I been here?? What in the world does that have to do with you being completely unable to back up your claim that he will not receive a fair trial here.

You claim to think for yourself but choose to believe what 2 people told you as undoubted truth??? Just in this thread it is easy to point out more than two people who have said things that are 100% untrue and many others (like yourself) that say things they either can't or are unwilling to back up.

And by the way .. if you talk to the vast majority of people convicted of crimes in any country, they will also have horrible "true" and unfair stories to tell you.

[lennois]

I haven't read his every post but it in his most recent he went for "And I repeat, there are NO witnesses to the actual event, the one witness has given contradictory evidence and as such her testimony will be ripped to shreds."

Perhaps he just missed the word credible

What doesn't appear to be credible is your claim she is not credible.

Why is she not credible? Again, I ask for just one QUOTE from HER where she changed her story. Or show one report of anyone saying she has changed her story. There are numerous incorrect and/or contradictory things in numerous news accounts of this incident but only one quote, that I am aware of, from the girl and it says she was there when the murder took place.

Also, all reports appear to indicate the victim was giving the girl a ride home and that he was stabbed twice when he got of his bike and then ran inside. This jives completely with the girls story of seeing the suspect approach with his hands in his pockets, then producing a knife and stabbing the victim twice before they ran inside.

So, please explain why this girl is not credible ... beyond as usual reports (especially English Thai newspapers) put out contradictory information.

lol wot, easy there tiger. Where did I claim she wasn't credible? Was just stating he probably wanted to say no credible witness rather than say NO witness then talk about the witness.

I have no reason to doubt the credibility of the witness, but I have no idea if she is credible or not.

[F1fanatic]

As I said in an earlier post, the first time I read about this the victim was at home, not getting off his motorbike.

Anyway, a bargirl from the Freedom Bar will have zero credibility with the judges, whether she has changed her story or not.

Because this is what "you" read initially, are you now incapable of reading the more detailed and updated accounts?

You are clearly clueless as to how statements and witness accounts are evaluated if you really believe she will have no (or even little) credibility simply because she works at a bar or is a single parent let alone your unsubstantiated belief she is a bargirl. Most witnesses in crimes like this are not nuns or upstanding citizens as they don't hang out at bars or are on the street at 2 or 3 AM in the morning. Her credibility will largely depend on her honesty/consistency in statements and any motivation she may have to lie. To date I have not seen 1 quote from her showing she has changed her story or have I read any news report claiming she changed her story or have I read anything that anyone of the suspects lawyers have claimed she lacks credibility or has any reasonable reason been given as to why she would lie.

And that's exactly the point... "updated accounts".

Presumably you don't know Freedom bar..... But it doesn't matter, if you think Thai courts will consider a bargirl's account reputable (whether changed or not), you clearly don't know Thailand at all! She would get a better hearing in a UK court as long as her story hasn't changed.

[F1fanatic]

And you're still refusing to say how long you've lived here!

No, I know 2 true stories about expats and the justice system, regardless of the books etc.

Somehow I suspect you're American and determined to believe anything you're told.

Personally, I've come to learn (in the West as well as Thailand) to think for myself.

LMAO --- "I" believe anything I hear???? Sounds to me like you are projecting based on your own words.

How long have I been here?? What in the world does that have to do with you being completely unable to back up your claim that he will not receive a fair trial here.

You claim to think for yourself but choose to believe what 2 people told you as undoubted truth??? Just in this thread it is easy to point out more than two people who have said things that are 100% untrue and many others (like yourself) that say things they either can't or are unwilling to back up.

And by the way .. if you talk to the vast majority of people convicted of crimes in any country, they will also have horrible "true" and unfair stories to tell you.

What the hell are you talking about?!!

I've made it clear that I think he is probably guilty but would like him to receive a fair trial!!

[hehehoho]

Ok, you win ... there will be no forensic evidence in the case and the blood on the knives will be determined to be from a dog without doing any forensic testing.

Why are you talking about the future? You said there was forensic evidence linking Aldhouse to the murder scene. Was this a figment of your imagination or can you show a source to your claim? (please answer without reverting to childish nonsense as per previous, thanks.)

But I have to ask Mr. Mason ... what of your continued claims of the witness to the murder not being credible? Do you think that you can sway the judges in the case to believe she is not credible because of a reporter(s) reporting inaccurately as opposed to there not being one instance showing she SHE SAID anything but that she was there when the murder took place?

As I have always said, the reports of her testimony are conflicting, her actual reports may be conflicting or they may not, do you know that they are just conflicting reports? Source please.

Thanks.

[Richard4849]

What makes anyone think that his trial wouldn't be fair? The guy he allegedly killed was not wealthy, not influential, and there is nO one behind the scenes with any interest whatsoever in pushing through the prosecution of an innocent man. It's not like he killed the local mafia boss's son. Just two ordinary young sexpat nobodies.