Middle Class May Rebel Against Populist Policies: Thai Opinion

[lannarebirth]

Did the middle class rebel against the military that was increasing it's budget to an obscene level and were giving the coup takers billion baht bonuses? Did the middle class rebel against the free electricity scheme from Abhisit, the depletion of the disaster fund in the South to buy votes? The answer is no. The middle class will not rebel, the elite will rebel. The elite wants to keep the income gap as wide as possible. They want to use their maid Khadaffi style and they like to go on ordering the mass killing of protestors without impunity. Thailand is still a major rural society. Huge chance that the Bangkok MIddle Class has lots of family members who are poor. They realize that it is cheaper to pay a bit more tax (or even better allow the government to collect more tax from the elite who never paid their fair share and impose capital gain tax which was only imposed on Thaksin by the courts and on no one else) to give their friends and family in the country side a better education and more tools to make a great living. The Middle Class want to rebel against the filthy rich and certain other circles. Newsletters not papers, like the Nation support the wrong people for centuries by misrepresenting the facts.

What you have stated is slanted and not true. Thaksin ABSOLUTELY owed capital gains tax on his ownwership of Shin Corp. That he attempted several fraudulent schemes to hide that ownership should have got him additional charges. He could have sold his shares off in the market if he chose to and he would have incurred no capital gains tax, but he was afraid that the sale of so many shares would drive the price down, so he committed fraud instead.

Yours and others adoration of this man simply amazes me. In the end, I guess that says more about you and them, than it does about him.

[sfbandung]

The Nation is basically a partisan rag? I'm finding their editorial fairly one track.

Populist policies are popular, hence they get people elected. Whilst the article is hard to follow and contradictory, the gist I'm getting is that it will piss off somewhere between 2,400 and 60,000 people.

I'm sure they're shaking in their boots at the miniscule electoral ramifications. Apart from the fact that almost every elected government on earth make outrageous promises to get elected. Then they break them. This at least is one area where Thailand is exactly the same as developed nations like Australia, the US, UK, Europe etc etc etc.

Oh my Buddha! The politicians have been lying again!!

Please get it right. That nice Mr Abhisit and his angelic party of Democrats never lie, never do anything wrong, and run the country in the most fair and impartial way imaginable to the educated well heeled (and only they count as everyone else is a moron who shouldnt be allowed a vote) and would never dream of supporting anything that might be against the interests of the people and only lose elections because that devious square faced man splashes the cash and all the intellectually challenged who shouldnt have a vote have been totally brain washed by legions of red shirted hypnotic genii with cloaks of invisibility so all those nicey nicey isoc men who only want to ensure the best for the people cant actually see them and protect the people of limited intelligence from being exposed to their wicked ways

I'm sensing some sarcasm here ...

Funny post though, ta.

[Tywais]

Who are these small number of people that pay taxes?

Everyone who is a salaried worker in any registered business, on the books with an income over a modest threshold.

That 'modest' threshold is 20k/month before tax liability kicks in.

[Bakseedaa]

Did the middle class rebel against the military that was increasing it's budget to an obscene level and were giving the coup takers billion baht bonuses? Did the middle class rebel against the free electricity scheme from Abhisit, the depletion of the disaster fund in the South to buy votes? The answer is no. The middle class will not rebel, the elite will rebel. The elite wants to keep the income gap as wide as possible. They want to use their maid Khadaffi style and they like to go on ordering the mass killing of protestors without impunity. Thailand is still a major rural society. Huge chance that the Bangkok MIddle Class has lots of family members who are poor. They realize that it is cheaper to pay a bit more tax (or even better allow the government to collect more tax from the elite who never paid their fair share and impose capital gain tax which was only imposed on Thaksin by the courts and on no one else) to give their friends and family in the country side a better education and more tools to make a great living. The Middle Class want to rebel against the filthy rich and certain other circles. Newsletters not papers, like the Nation support the wrong people for centuries by misrepresenting the facts.

I thought LSD, was a thing of the past..!

[Colin Yai]

When these people earn middle class incomes to match their middle class jobs, then Thailand will begin to become a healthy democracy where no one needs to accept or expect bribes.

I disagree with that ...

Corruption is a state of mind, and it is NOT associated with the income level !

Here, the richest are the most corrupt, mafia-style ...

The richest people are corrupt Mafia!, that's a ridiculous Statement! I do not believe a word :lol: :lol:

[dcutman]

If these figures are accurate, it suggests that while the tax system is "fair" in that it makes those who can afford it pay the most, the fact remains that too few people are paying tax.

For a healhy economy and democracy, you need to boost income for the huge numbers of people who are doing what in the West are regarded as middle-class jobs. It is astounding that doctors, dentists, nurses, teachers, policemen earn so little.

When these people earn middle class incomes to match their middle class jobs, then Thailand will begin to become a healthy democracy where no one needs to accept or expect bribes.

Not disagreeing with you but wondered if you could name a couple of healthy democracies so I will know what one looks like.

I would as well.

A couple is a bit of a stretch I think. Lets just start at one and see.

Edited September 7, 2011 by dcutman

[Thai at Heart]

If these figures are accurate, it suggests that while the tax system is "fair" in that it makes those who can afford it pay the most, the fact remains that too few people are paying tax.

For a healhy economy and democracy, you need to boost income for the huge numbers of people who are doing what in the West are regarded as middle-class jobs. It is astounding that doctors, dentists, nurses, teachers, policemen earn so little.

When these people earn middle class incomes to match their middle class jobs, then Thailand will begin to become a healthy democracy where no one needs to accept or expect bribes.

Not disagreeing with you but wondered if you could name a couple of healthy democracies so I will know what one looks like.

I would as well.

A couple is a bit of a stretch I think. Lets just start at one and see.

To me the definition of a healthy democracy, is whether or not political corruption has a high likelihood of being punished, and the system can withstand such sanctions without collapsing. It ain't much, but as Churchill said, "Democracy is the worst system of government - 'apart from all the others'

[plumeria]

If these figures are accurate, it suggests that while the tax system is "fair" in that it makes those who can afford it pay the most, the fact remains that too few people are paying tax.

For a healhy economy and democracy, you need to boost income for the huge numbers of people who are doing what in the West are regarded as middle-class jobs. It is astounding that doctors, dentists, nurses, teachers, policemen earn so little.

When these people earn middle class incomes to match their middle class jobs, then Thailand will begin to become a healthy democracy where no one needs to accept or expect bribes.

Not disagreeing with you but wondered if you could name a couple of healthy democracies so I will know what one looks like.

Amen. You hit the nail on the head. Tell where is better and I'll start packing to go there.

What totally confuses me are WHAT populist policies???

There are no policies, just cronies lining up to rape and pillage the country and bleed it dry. Exactly what is anyone talking about that will help the struggling average man and woman trying to make ends meet, put their kids through school and minimize their debts?

I think the basis of the article is built on sand. 1% are getting ludicrously rich and most of the rest of the country are saddled with mortgages, monthly payments for stuff they cannot afford to buy cash and interest payments to moneylenders. As the Thai saying goes: "Kings of hire purchase."

Any reader will get much better news, opinion, perspective, insight and facts on TVF than the Post or Nation.

[kerryk]

If these figures are accurate, it suggests that while the tax system is "fair" in that it makes those who can afford it pay the most, the fact remains that too few people are paying tax.

For a healhy economy and democracy, you need to boost income for the huge numbers of people who are doing what in the West are regarded as middle-class jobs. It is astounding that doctors, dentists, nurses, teachers, policemen earn so little.

When these people earn middle class incomes to match their middle class jobs, then Thailand will begin to become a healthy democracy where no one needs to accept or expect bribes.

Not disagreeing with you but wondered if you could name a couple of healthy democracies so I will know what one looks like.

I would as well.

A couple is a bit of a stretch I think. Lets just start at one and see.

To me the definition of a healthy democracy, is whether or not political corruption has a high likelihood of being punished, and the system can withstand such sanctions without collapsing. It ain't much, but as Churchill said, "Democracy is the worst system of government - 'apart from all the others'

Singapore is not corrupt but hardly what one would call a healthy democracy. Maybe you need to amend your definition.

[tigermonkey]

This next statement will be controversial.

How about a form of Poll Tax, if you pay Tax, even a small amount, you get to vote.

Not really so controversial -- I had already heard this proposal expressed by PAD during the airport occupation. It has the same appeal to democratic principles as the proposal ( during the same occupation) to give a second vote to all university graduates.

Edit to add: ...and everyone pays Tax already through the VAT.

Edited September 7, 2011 by tigermonkey

[kerryk]

Did the middle class rebel against the military that was increasing it's budget to an obscene level and were giving the coup takers billion baht bonuses? Did the middle class rebel against the free electricity scheme from Abhisit, the depletion of the disaster fund in the South to buy votes? The answer is no. The middle class will not rebel, the elite will rebel. The elite wants to keep the income gap as wide as possible. They want to use their maid Khadaffi style and they like to go on ordering the mass killing of protestors without impunity. Thailand is still a major rural society. Huge chance that the Bangkok MIddle Class has lots of family members who are poor. They realize that it is cheaper to pay a bit more tax (or even better allow the government to collect more tax from the elite who never paid their fair share and impose capital gain tax which was only imposed on Thaksin by the courts and on no one else) to give their friends and family in the country side a better education and more tools to make a great living. The Middle Class want to rebel against the filthy rich and certain other circles. Newsletters not papers, like the Nation support the wrong people for centuries by misrepresenting the facts.

What you have stated is slanted and not true. Thaksin ABSOLUTELY owed capital gains tax on his ownwership of Shin Corp. That he attempted several fraudulent schemes to hide that ownership should have got him additional charges. He could have sold his shares off in the market if he chose to and he would have incurred no capital gains tax, but he was afraid that the sale of so many shares would drive the price down, so he committed fraud instead.

Yours and others adoration of this man simply amazes me. In the end, I guess that says more about you and them, than it does about him.

In terms of democracy, populist policies and the middle or lower class don't you have to ask who won the last three elections and where is he now? Just asking :jap:

[tigermonkey]

If these figures are accurate, it suggests that while the tax system is "fair" in that it makes those who can afford it pay the most, the fact remains that too few people are paying tax.

For a healhy economy and democracy, you need to boost income for the huge numbers of people who are doing what in the West are regarded as middle-class jobs. It is astounding that doctors, dentists, nurses, teachers, policemen earn so little.

When these people earn middle class incomes to match their middle class jobs, then Thailand will begin to become a healthy democracy where no one needs to accept or expect bribes.

Not disagreeing with you but wondered if you could name a couple of healthy democracies so I will know what one looks like.

I would as well.

A couple is a bit of a stretch I think. Lets just start at one and see.

I'll go with Switzerland .

[bkkjames]

They could balance the budget by recruiting 50000 farangs to work for TAT on their 8 billion baht miracle campaign as global ambassadors-and tax the crap out of them.

Or just cut the excess from the requested budget and take the money from one pocket and put it in the other.

[MaiChai]

This would be the small number of educated people who pay taxes who can never win an election against the uneducated and largely unemployable country masses?

Its a bit like Robin Hood, robbing the rich to give to the poor, but its the middle income earners being robbed not the rich.

Maybe only tax payers should be allowed to vote? Now that might balance things out a bit? You might also equate that to anyone with half a brain who can think for themselves should be allowed to vote? It would cut out the low kao swigging low lives with rotted brains who would vote for anyone who pays them 500 baht or another bag of low kao? Harsh but true.

Edited September 7, 2011 by MaiChai

[housepainter]

May ................................

as in could .........................

as in the moon may be a diamond

or

the colour red could be an electric banana.

May ......................... perhaps ..................... possibly .....................

No news - Next.

[lannarebirth]

Did the middle class rebel against the military that was increasing it's budget to an obscene level and were giving the coup takers billion baht bonuses? Did the middle class rebel against the free electricity scheme from Abhisit, the depletion of the disaster fund in the South to buy votes? The answer is no. The middle class will not rebel, the elite will rebel. The elite wants to keep the income gap as wide as possible. They want to use their maid Khadaffi style and they like to go on ordering the mass killing of protestors without impunity. Thailand is still a major rural society. Huge chance that the Bangkok MIddle Class has lots of family members who are poor. They realize that it is cheaper to pay a bit more tax (or even better allow the government to collect more tax from the elite who never paid their fair share and impose capital gain tax which was only imposed on Thaksin by the courts and on no one else) to give their friends and family in the country side a better education and more tools to make a great living. The Middle Class want to rebel against the filthy rich and certain other circles. Newsletters not papers, like the Nation support the wrong people for centuries by misrepresenting the facts.

What you have stated is slanted and not true. Thaksin ABSOLUTELY owed capital gains tax on his ownwership of Shin Corp. That he attempted several fraudulent schemes to hide that ownership should have got him additional charges. He could have sold his shares off in the market if he chose to and he would have incurred no capital gains tax, but he was afraid that the sale of so many shares would drive the price down, so he committed fraud instead.

Yours and others adoration of this man simply amazes me. In the end, I guess that says more about you and them, than it does about him.

In terms of democracy, populist policies and the middle or lower class don't you have to ask who won the last three elections and where is he now? Just asking :jap:

There's no democracy without a justice system. It's just a persistant lie we tell ourselves.

Edited September 7, 2011 by lannarebirth

[kerryk]

Did the middle class rebel against the military that was increasing it's budget to an obscene level and were giving the coup takers billion baht bonuses? Did the middle class rebel against the free electricity scheme from Abhisit, the depletion of the disaster fund in the South to buy votes? The answer is no. The middle class will not rebel, the elite will rebel. The elite wants to keep the income gap as wide as possible. They want to use their maid Khadaffi style and they like to go on ordering the mass killing of protestors without impunity. Thailand is still a major rural society. Huge chance that the Bangkok MIddle Class has lots of family members who are poor. They realize that it is cheaper to pay a bit more tax (or even better allow the government to collect more tax from the elite who never paid their fair share and impose capital gain tax which was only imposed on Thaksin by the courts and on no one else) to give their friends and family in the country side a better education and more tools to make a great living. The Middle Class want to rebel against the filthy rich and certain other circles. Newsletters not papers, like the Nation support the wrong people for centuries by misrepresenting the facts.

What you have stated is slanted and not true. Thaksin ABSOLUTELY owed capital gains tax on his ownwership of Shin Corp. That he attempted several fraudulent schemes to hide that ownership should have got him additional charges. He could have sold his shares off in the market if he chose to and he would have incurred no capital gains tax, but he was afraid that the sale of so many shares would drive the price down, so he committed fraud instead.

Yours and others adoration of this man simply amazes me. In the end, I guess that says more about you and them, than it does about him.

In terms of democracy, populist policies and the middle or lower class don't you have to ask who won the last three elections and where is he now? Just asking :jap:

There's no democracy without a justice system. It's just a persistant lie we tell ourselves.

I would add free press to your statement but what does that mean?

[Crushdepth]

This next statement will be controversial.

How about a form of Poll Tax, if you pay Tax, even a small amount, you get to vote.

Not really so controversial -- I had already heard this proposal expressed by PAD during the airport occupation. It has the same appeal to democratic principles as the proposal ( during the same occupation) to give a second vote to all university graduates.

Edit to add: ...and everyone pays Tax already through the VAT.

If you buy your food and other stuff through local markets and family businesses you do not pay VAT.