Uk Citizenship & Esol

[housepainter]

As some of you may know my wife and I have arrived in the UK following our successful Settlement Visa Application.

Many of you may well be in the same position or hoping to be.

We started to take the tentative steps of getting her into the system. The obvious concerns being a NI number and the requirements of the Citizenship Test. NI no problem and a form is in the post. But the citizenship test ...............?

The Citizen's Advice Bureau is a good place to start and we made an appointment; outlined our concerns and are due back in a few days time.

All is well there then.

But ........................................ the Citizenship Test, the need for an ESOL Course and possibly the combination of the two as a course of learning had to be determined. We contacted a local College offering the ESOL entry and actual Levels of 1,2 and 3 and turned up to enroll.

However, the UK Government has a regulation that states that though my wife, being married to a UK citizen, is entitled to free study. The cost being £6k if you have to pay. But she can not commence any study [ unless we pay] before a year has passed.

She must have been here a whole year! That's from the passport stamp arrival date.

In contrast the regs. state that after 6 months we are 'checked' on to see if all is well; then after a further 18 months we are informed [if all is well] that she has indefinate leave to stay.

What seems madness is the fact that she is being required to take and pass a Citizenship Test requiring Level 3 ESOL but is being denied the right to study until she has been here for one year. That's a whole year wasted! It seems that they would class her as an 'international student' and therefore subject to paying international fees. Those being most expensive at £6k.

There is now no option open to us for free study. There are no courses whatsoever.

I was advised by the College to write to my MP and suggest that you do too. It is important to influence a government who seem hell bent on stopping ALL immigration - not the wrong immigration that does need to be tackled. in fact such a one size fits all approach seems openly racist.

I, like many of you, worked all my life, paid all my contributions and have a legitimate marriage - in all senses of the word. I should be helped, as should my wife, and not barred from the free education that the Government acknowledge she is entitled too but only after a whole year of residency. That is especially important in view of the time scale they choose to impose.

Finally, I was also informed by the College that at a recent conference they were told that the Government is looking to extend that two year period to five.

Again I would suggest that your opposition to this be made known to your MP.

One letter carries a lot of weight as MPs believe it reflects the views of many more constituents. There is real power in a single individual letter and we should use this opportunity to influence the harsh attitude currently in vogue as regards immigration.

[Thongkorn]

I don't know where you get 6K from , If she has been here a year it is cheaper about £200 thats what i paided. I was asked to pay £600 pound but waited for a year before she went on an ESOL course. make certain that she is assest before starting, because a friend of mine got put on the wrong level.

Edited September 7, 2011 by Thongkorn

[AyG]

What I don't understand is why the taxpayer should ever pay for the cost of an immigrant learning English.

Nobody forces an immigrant to live in Britain - it's a personal choice, and one factor in that choice should be the cost of learning the language.

[7by7]

As Thongkorn says, £6K is way over the top for an ESOL course. The figures he quotes are far more average.

There is much else in the OP which is misinformed or just plain wrong; too much to correct all the mistakes here.

For the facts, see Knowledge of life and language in the UK and the links from there.

It should also be remembered that if someone's English is good enough they can take the LitUK test instead; a far cheaper and quicker option if it's possible.

Plus, of course, if someone has already satisfied this requirement to obtain ILR then they do not need to do so again if applying for British citizenship.

The OP is correct about possible changes to the immigration rules, including increasing the qualifying time for ILR. There is currently a public consultation being carried out by the government. VisaPlus has posted a link to this before, but I can't find it. Maybe he'll post it again.

[7by7]

There is currently a public consultation being carried out by the government. VisaPlus has posted a link to this before, but I can't find it. Maybe he'll post it again.

Now found it: here. The consultation closes on 6th October, so complete it ASAP.

It was actually Vinny who first posted the link; apols to him.

[housepainter]

The £6k figure was quoted to me by the College staff as being the charge made to an International Student. That is, my wife would not be classed as being married to a UK citizen but as a visiting student about to study. Therefore the International student fees would apply.

£6k for a course that I found on the web at being a maximum of under £800.

Still in doubt? Check the cost of study to International Students.

[chiang mai]

There is currently a public consultation being carried out by the government. VisaPlus has posted a link to this before, but I can't find it. Maybe he'll post it again.

Now found it: here. The consultation closes on 6th October, so complete it ASAP.

It was actually Vinny who first posted the link; apols to him.

I'm personally grateful for you posting the link to the consultation document 7B7 but I think it would really help lots of people here who are perhaps "dithering" at present, if you could perhaps summarize the salient points, most specifically the proposed changes in timescales, I think that would help many? Just for clarity - I think this is your domain in respect of offering clarification on such issues.

[7by7]

This is the Home Office announcement which lists the salient points.

This is Vinny's original topic, which discusses the proposed changes.

[chiang mai]

This is the Home Office announcement which lists the salient points.

This is Vinny's original topic, which discusses the proposed changes.

Many thanks, the Home Office document summarizes things nicely, for anyone who's interested.

[kunash]

The OP is correct about possible changes to the immigration rules, including increasing the qualifying time for ILR. There is currently a public consultation being carried out by the government. VisaPlus has posted a link to this before, but I can't find it. Maybe he'll post it again.

If this is introduced next year, do you think this would effect everyone who is currently on a two year settlement viisa, or only effect people who arrive after it has been introduced.?

[bobrussell]

As stated above there are many misconceptions in the original post. ESOL courses are widely available and considering the time and effort in providing these courses a few hundred pounds for three terms of study (part-time) seems very good value to me.

We paid about £300 for a year and that included Cambridge exam fees.

I agree that there is little justification in having this sum subsidised. i suspect it already has considerable hidden subsidy already.

I have not heard of a citizenship test but it sounds like a good idea. I suspect this is the Life In The UK test. Cost about £40 and not compulsory if you do an ESOL course.

I have not seen it written down that we are checked at six months to see if all is well and they sure as hell don't just inform you 18 months later that you have ILR. They inform you after you fill in a long form, provide lots more information and pay a grand that you are entitled to ILR if they agree you actually are!

A lot of hoops to jump through but none of them particularly unfair. That thousand pounds allows 'free' medical care, 'free' schools for your children and a lot else as well so pretty good value for money. I say this despite having to find nearly £1500 next month to pay for my wife and daughter to get ILR next month!

Five years to citizenship? Not unreasonable IMO. Five years to keep your nose clean and settle properly in the UK? Not unreasonable. Hopefully my family will be able to do it in three years rather than five but if it changes so be it.

[TexasRanger]

Great isn't it. We have houses in both countries, a great salary but just because the Mrs isnt at the standard of the LITUK test we have to find a course that isnt widely available. I have no problem learning languages but not everyone can and my Mrs is one of them, great with numbers but not language. As long as you can make yourself understood why should you have so many barriers to living with and being supported with your spouse? Crap!

[7by7]

The courses are widely available; ask your local college or education authority.

When starting the course you are assessed and then to satisfy the requirement for ILR all you have to do is improve by one level. Not difficult.

I simply cannot fathom why anyone would not want their partner to be able to communicate with their neighbours, find a job if they want one, participate in the life of their new home etc.

[TexasRanger]

The courses are widely available; ask your local college or education authority.

When starting the course you are assessed and then to satisfy the requirement for ILR all you have to do is improve by one level. Not difficult.

I simply cannot fathom why anyone would not want their partner to be able to communicate with their neighbours, find a job if they want one, participate in the life of their new home etc.

She can communicate, but cannot read to the level of LITUK.

And no, the course are NOT widely available, they are available in limited areas and if you happen not to live in one it is very difficult to arrange.

[7by7]

Did you read the link on this I provided earlier? If you did you will know that she does not have to pass the LitUK test!

There are two ways of satisfying this requirement.

• If your English ability is at ESOL entry level 3 or better then you should be able to understand the LitUK study materials and the test itself.
• If your English ability is below ESOL entry level 3 then, as already said, increasing by one level on an ESOL with citizenship course.

Unless you live on a remote Scottish island or similar you should be able to find a suitable course near you. Have you asked any local colleges or your LEA? If they can't help, remember that Google is your friend. Alternatively, if you can't manage any of these, tell us where you live and I'm sure that someone will be able to find a course close to you; subject to the above caveat about remote islands!

[TexasRanger]

Did you read the link on this I provided earlier? If you did you will know that she does not have to pass the LitUK test!

Unless you live on a remote Scottish island or similar you should be able to find a suitable course near you. Have you asked any local colleges or your LEA? If they can't help, remember that Google is your friend. Alternatively, if you can't manage any of these, tell us where you live and I'm sure that someone will be able to find a course close to you; subject to the above caveat about remote islands!

Yes I did read it and you will note I said she is not at the level to take LITUK so she will have to do a course. Do you really think I would post here if I hadn't looked for a course provider in my area?

[7by7]

Then as I said, if you can't find one tell us where you live and someone should be able to find one for you.

Alternatively; try here.

[TexasRanger]

Then as I said, if you can't find one tell us where you live and someone should be able to find one for you.

Alternatively; try here.

Thanks for the link but it shows no results for Plymouth area.

Cheers

[7by7]

£6k for a course that I found on the web at being a maximum of under £800.

With respect, what does this mean? Is it a maximum of £6000 or £800?

Ever since this requirement was first introduced for citizenship and then extended to ILR I have never heard of anyone, either on boards like this or personally, paying more than £600 for an ESOL with citizenship course; and that's at the full rate, not the discounted resident's rate you can pay after living in the UK for a year.

If your college wants to charge your wife £6000 for an ESOL with citizenship course; find a new college!

[7by7]

Then as I said, if you can't find one tell us where you live and someone should be able to find one for you.

Alternatively; try here.

Thanks for the link but it shows no results for Plymouth area.

Cheers

Good old DirectGov!

As I said, let Google be your friend!

'ESOL with citizenship course, Plymouth' got me this from City College, Plymouth.

It says 'skills for life,' this is usually the same as citizenship content; but you should, of course, check that this is a suitable course with the college. If it isn't, I'm sure they'll be able to point you towards one that is.

[MAJIC]

There is currently a public consultation being carried out by the government. VisaPlus has posted a link to this before, but I can't find it. Maybe he'll post it again.

Now found it: here. The consultation closes on 6th October, so complete it ASAP.

It was actually Vinny who first posted the link; apols to him.

Having read through the consultation period it looks like from your Home Office Posting,by the Home Secretary,that it will not come into effect until April 2012,

is that the way you read it as well? or have I missed something?

[housepainter]

The cost of courses at the main provider in my area reached just over £700. ESOL at £700. Clear?

That is for the wife of a British National who [she] has resided in the UK for upwards of 12 months. It's called FREE education.

However, a stay of under 12 months warrants the application of the International rates. Those fees for ESOL are £6 k.

That's Six Thousand Pounds.

Hence, we [my wife and I] have to wait for a whole year before my wife [she] can commence any of the pre-entry levels or the actual levels of 1,2 or 3.

Pleasingly, we have found a voluntary organisation that holds free conversation classes, for her, made up of foreign nationals, that my wife will now be attending weekly.

But it is outside of anything the UK Government certifies.

For those of you who may be facing a similar challenge consider contacting any organisations in ethic concentrated areas as they may have the knowledge and certainly the expertise to help you. A search on google / bing will help.

Edited September 16, 2011 by housepainter

[tigerjohn]

The cost of courses at the main provider in my area reached just over £700. ESOL at £700. Clear?

That is for the wife of a British National who [she] has resided in the UK for upwards of 12 months. It's called FREE education.

However, a stay of under 12 months warrants the application of the International rates. Those fees for ESOL are £6 k.

That's Six Thousand Pounds.

Hence, we [my wife and I] have to wait for a whole year before my wife [she] can commence any of the pre-entry levels or the actual levels of 1,2 or 3.

Pleasingly, we have found a voluntary organisation that holds free conversation classes, for her, made up of foreign nationals, that my wife will now be attending weekly.

But it is outside of anything the UK Government certifies.

For those of you who may be facing a similar challenge consider contacting any organisations in ethic concentrated areas as they may have the knowledge and certainly the expertise to help you. A search on google / bing will help.

i too was told my wife had to wait a year but wasnt quoated any figures, but while that year was passing i got my wife the lituk book and cd, she sat on the pc at home listening to the cd and practising the tests and reading what she could understand in the book, my wife doesnt need esol now she passed the test (£50 by the way) all with 15mth to spare? to me the lituk test is the easiest and best option,

[dowman73]

There is also a Thai/Version of the Life in the UK Test Book (available on Amazon)

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Life-UK-Test-Handbook-English/dp/0956573800

which has both English and Thai translation in, which came in handy whenever my wife got stuck on a section that she did not understand (House of Lords, MP's etc) and which I have to admit I did'nt either. She spent 3 month studying it and passed 1st time best £10 we spent.

[norrona]

My wife joined an ESOL course level 1 after only a month of being here(Nov 2010) and we was charged £8 per hour, she was my fiancee at the time as we didn't get married till March 2011 .

Again to take the level 2 course which she will be signing up for next month it is the same £8 per hour.

typically the courses are over 2 terms for 1 day a week and for 2 hours, total approx 50 hours of studying.

she has the certificates from cambridge for her level 1 pass.

What I have been told is after she has been married to me for 1 year (March 2012) is when I will see a reduction on the charge.

Edited September 16, 2011 by norrona

[bobrussell]

Devon County Council offer ESOL courses at their Adult Learning Centres including Plymouth. I guarantee they do not charge £6K for any of the courses.

[7by7]

The cost of courses at the main provider in my area reached just over £700. ESOL at £700. Clear?

That is for the wife of a British National who [she] has resided in the UK for upwards of 12 months. It's called FREE education.

However, a stay of under 12 months warrants the application of the International rates. Those fees for ESOL are £6 k.

That's Six Thousand Pounds.

No need to shout!

Who is this provider of ESOL with citizenship courses who wants to charge your wife £6000? They are vastly overcharging! As already said to you; find another.

[chiang mai]

Devon County Council offer ESOL courses at their Adult Learning Centres including Plymouth. I guarantee they do not charge £6K for any of the courses.

I agree totally, in fact, here's an email from Devon Adult Learning (County Council) that I received in response to the same point some months ago:

Thank you for your enquiry about ESOL.

Devon Adult Learning runs courses for ESOL for a period of 15 weeks per term. Included in this curriculum is Citizenship and is applicable towards the settlement requirements. The next course will be due to start 28th February 2011 but further details are online at www.devon.gov.uk where you will find course details and venues. Because your wife has not been resident in the UK for over 12 months, there will be an additional cost of £100 on the funded course price.

If you require any further information, contact details are online or through my email address.

Regards.

[uaelaelil]

My Wife has just started her ESOL course (last week)

When we went to sign up she had to be in the uk for 12 months to qualify was one of the rules. We paid £295 I think it was and her course runs for a whole year (1 evening a week) based in Wiltshire.

[norrona]

also with regard to the first bit about national insurance number and 'no problem we got a form for this'

you still need to present your wife and as much ID she has at the job centre to get the number!

it will be a weekday appointment and only at specified job centres so be ready if you work to take the day off work and escort them there....that's if there isn't one on your door step!