South African Family's Phuket Holiday Nightmare

[swillowbee]

Exactly - if he offered old/worn US dollars, the hotel can refuse to accept them. But that does not make him guilty of attempting to pass fake notes.

We really need to know what was the outcome of sending the notes to Bangkok for checking. Were they fake or not, and if not, what crime was he guilty of?

Simon

Maybe i am being naive, but i don't think it is fair to always assume there is a scam going on whenever a farang is nabbed for something...

... naive? ... I would say, yes, ozzieovaseas ... probably.

... were Thailand not so interminably infected with corruption, there might be a natural bias of this event as an honest bust, rather than a scam ... but, let's face it, Thailand has used up all of it's credibility chips ... corruption is now pervasive, and no Thai is untouched by it on near daily a basis, regardless their place in Thai society ... roughly 65% of all Thais polled now accept corruption, as long as they benefit by it (recent ABAC polling ... amongst younger Thais, that percentage is 70+%, indicating that the cultural institutionalization of corruption in Thailand is rooted deeply and trending worse).

... here for a decade+ now, I no longer assume the best of Thais, but the worst ... I protect myself ... except with Thais I know very, very well, for a long time, and to whom I have certain recourse ... more often than not, I am correct for doing so.

... Thailand is where I find useful a sage bit of rationale, Occam's Razor ... it roughly hypothesizes: given that all explanations are possible, the simplest explanation, with the fewest extraneous variables, is likely the correct explanation.

... so, follow me here ... this is Thailand ... Thai culture is deeply corrupted ... the Royal Thai Police are widely acknowleged as amongst the most corrupt of Thai institutions ... the Royal Thai Police are involved in this event ... ipso facto, the probability is that it is a scam.

... it is pretty Jack simple.

... indemic corruption ... the Land of Smile's legacy, little better than any Sub-Sahara African country ... I trust the Royal Thai Police no more than their Nigerian cousins, and I have "friends" (in as much as I am willing to bribe them for their assistance) in very high places in the Royal Thai Police (2 of whom are generals with full authority over their districts) ... institutionalized corruption is but a reflection of the cultural values expressed by the Thai population.

... here in Thailand, we do not have the liberty of trust ... assuming otherwise is a fool's bet, putting you and the people who rely upon you at very certain risk.

... sad.

Edited October 5, 2011 by swillowbee

[Nisa]

It would be pretty insane for the police to trump up fake US Bill charges since this would require US authority involvement.

Bottom line is it appears the guy only spent 1 night in jail and then was cleared within the month even though he did pass fake bills. Sounds to me like he got treated very fairly and things would be no different in most other countries ... including the possibility of being taken advantage of by a lawyer.

I can understand his frustration but based on what we know now, it sounds like he should be directing his anger at the lawyer and the travel agency that gave him bogus bills.

[arch77778]

What proof is there that the Travel Agency gave fake notes.

[Nisa]

What proof is there that the Travel Agency gave fake notes.

There is no "proof" of anything at this point but was simply taking both the South Africans words and the police's word that appear to indicate he did in fact pass fake notes unknowingly and that he got the notes from the Travel Agency.

[Arkady]

This sounds like a scam organized between the bank teller and local police to rip off the $1,000 and get his family to pay a bribe on top. If the guy knowingly had fake dollars, he would most likely have changed it in smaller amounts and with money changers rather than banks. Of course it is possible that he was ripped off with fake dollars in South Africa but the fact that the family complained of being shaken down by the police for bribes suggests strongly that it was a scam.

This is an old trick of Thai bank employees. They switch their own fake dollars and call the police. I remember a case when one tried it on a young German girl on Surawong Road in Bangkok. She looked like a backpacker and the bank teller didn't realise she was actually travelling with her parents. Her father was forced to pay a bribe to get her out of prison but made a fuss with the German Embassy and the media which got the story out. The girl had some $100 bills folded up small and squeezed into one of those money belts with a small zip compartment in the leather. She tried to change one of them with the bank foreign exchange booth and the bank clerk suspiciously kept her waiting while he called his friend, the bent cop. The fake bill that the police claimed the girl had passed was not folded and it she was able to show the media her little stash of folded up bills which to my mind was pretty conclusive. The police let her go and pretended they had not extorted the father and no action was taken against them or the crooked banker.

I once reported a crooked foreign exchange teller from a Bank of Ayudhya who had a card trick of counting out one of the Thai bank notes he was giving the customer twice. If you noticed it, then he gave you the hidden bill, but of course most people didn't notice but he made a big pantomime of counting the bills very slowly in front of you. Of course, I got no reply when I reported this crook to the Senior Executive Vice President in charge of retail banking. Perhaps he was involved in the various retail banking scams personally.

[Netfan]

What's insane about being put in jail for passing counterfeit bank notes? And keeping you there if you're unable to post bail?

What's insane is that you believe everything you read in the papers.

I wasn't aware they had the results back. Actually, I wasn't aware they sent the notes for testing, I thought he was asked to pay for the notes to be sent for testing but I can't see where he actually did that.

EXACTLY.

No one knows anything about what really happened.

Could just as easily have been counterfeit as not.

There is an FBI presence in Thailand. Why didn't or why hasn't the Thai police department involved the FBI if they are so sure the notes were counterfeit? Maybe, just maybe it's because there was no crime here, other than extortion on the part of the Thai lawyers and police?

[Richard4849]

What's insane about being put in jail for passing counterfeit bank notes? And keeping you there if you're unable to post bail?

What's insane is that you believe everything you read in the papers.

I wasn't aware they had the results back. Actually, I wasn't aware they sent the notes for testing, I thought he was asked to pay for the notes to be sent for testing but I can't see where he actually did that.

EXACTLY.

No one knows anything about what really happened.

Could just as easily have been counterfeit as not.

There is an FBI presence in Thailand. Why didn't or why hasn't the Thai police department involved the FBI if they are so sure the notes were counterfeit? Maybe, just maybe it's because there was no crime here, other than extortion on the part of the Thai lawyers and police?

The Secret Service, not the FBI, would have been called in.

How do you know they weren't?

[Jimi007]

This sounds like a scam organized between the bank teller and local police to rip off the $1,000 and get his family to pay a bribe on top. If the guy knowingly had fake dollars, he would most likely have changed it in smaller amounts and with money changers rather than banks. Of course it is possible that he was ripped off with fake dollars in South Africa but the fact that the family complained of being shaken down by the police for bribes suggests strongly that it was a scam.

This is an old trick of Thai bank employees. They switch their own fake dollars and call the police. I remember a case when one tried it on a young German girl on Surawong Road in Bangkok. She looked like a backpacker and the bank teller didn't realise she was actually travelling with her parents. Her father was forced to pay a bribe to get her out of prison but made a fuss with the German Embassy and the media which got the story out. The girl had some $100 bills folded up small and squeezed into one of those money belts with a small zip compartment in the leather. She tried to change one of them with the bank foreign exchange booth and the bank clerk suspiciously kept her waiting while he called his friend, the bent cop. The fake bill that the police claimed the girl had passed was not folded and it she was able to show the media her little stash of folded up bills which to my mind was pretty conclusive. The police let her go and pretended they had not extorted the father and no action was taken against them or the crooked banker.

I once reported a crooked foreign exchange teller from a Bank of Ayudhya who had a card trick of counting out one of the Thai bank notes he was giving the customer twice. If you noticed it, then he gave you the hidden bill, but of course most people didn't notice but he made a big pantomime of counting the bills very slowly in front of you. Of course, I got no reply when I reported this crook to the Senior Executive Vice President in charge of retail banking. Perhaps he was involved in the various retail banking scams personally.

I'm guessing you didn't read this:

Major General Pekad said today that a check of records at Chalong Police Station revealed that Mr Sequeira was held in a cell for just one night and released the following day, September 3, on 300,000 baht bail. The money was later repaid to Mr Sequeira's lawyer, Major General Pekad said.

At no time was Mr Sequeira's passport surrendered, Major General Pekad said. Immigration officials at the airport would have held him if he had attempted to leave before the case was settled, Major General Pekad said.

A check showed three occasions on which Mr Sequeira converted US dollars to baht at Phuket banks - for $400, $1000 and $1050.

All the $100 notes in the second transaction were fakes, Major General Pekad said, along with some notes in the third transaction. In the man's hotel room, Major General Pekad said, police found another $1480 in fake notes.

Police opted not pursue any charges against Mr Sequeira because they believed he had been supplied with the fake notes from a legitimate source in South Africa and was an innocent party. ''The money that Mr Sequeira says was paid to police appears to have all gone to his lawyer,'' Major General Pekad said.

The lawyer has been interviewed and told poice that he and his associates were paid for their time and the work they put in on the case.

[tombkk]

There is an FBI presence in Thailand. Why didn't or why hasn't the Thai police department involved the FBI if they are so sure the notes were counterfeit? Maybe, just maybe it's because there was no crime here, other than extortion on the part of the Thai lawyers and police?

The Secret Service, not the FBI, would have been called in.

How do you know they weren't?

Now that was easy: Because we know that everything that was to be known about this case was reported in the initial newspaper article!

Otherwise, they wouldn't have been any use in following this thread up to page 10 now, would there?

[ParadiseLost]

Major General Pekad said today that a check of records at Chalong Police Station revealed that Mr Sequeira was held in a cell for just one night and released the following day, September 3, on 300,000 baht bail. The money was later repaid to Mr Sequeira's lawyer, Major General Pekad said.

At no time was Mr Sequeira's passport surrendered, Major General Pekad said. Immigration officials at the airport would have held him if he had attempted to leave before the case was settled, Major General Pekad said.

A check showed three occasions on which Mr Sequeira converted US dollars to baht at Phuket banks - for $400, $1000 and $1050.

All the $100 notes in the second transaction were fakes, Major General Pekad said, along with some notes in the third transaction. In the man's hotel room, Major General Pekad said, police found another $1480 in fake notes.

Police opted not pursue any charges against Mr Sequeira because they believed he had been supplied with the fake notes from a legitimate source in South Africa and was an innocent party. ''The money that Mr Sequeira says was paid to police appears to have all gone to his lawyer,'' Major General Pekad said.

Aha.

Who got it right (based on this account)?

Money paid to cops was bail, which was returned.

Lawyers pocketed it.

Lack of intent = no prosecution.

I'm so good, sometimes I even impress myself.

You're the only one impressed...

What's insane is that you believe everything you read in the papers.

So this ''explanation" is immediately accepted as gospel - surely not just because it fits your take on this... Shows how easy it is to brainwash people.

It is possible this is the Thai authorities trying to save face and quite believable that they would ensure all moneys are returned - they were caught red handed.

Edited October 5, 2011 by ParadiseLost

[Richard4849]

I said "based on this account", didn't I?

If it doesn't throw any doubt into the equation for you, perhaps you're not quite partial.

[Nisa]

What's insane about being put in jail for passing counterfeit bank notes? And keeping you there if you're unable to post bail?

What's insane is that you believe everything you read in the papers.

I wasn't aware they had the results back. Actually, I wasn't aware they sent the notes for testing, I thought he was asked to pay for the notes to be sent for testing but I can't see where he actually did that.

EXACTLY.

No one knows anything about what really happened.

Could just as easily have been counterfeit as not.

There is an FBI presence in Thailand. Why didn't or why hasn't the Thai police department involved the FBI if they are so sure the notes were counterfeit? Maybe, just maybe it's because there was no crime here, other than extortion on the part of the Thai lawyers and police?

Surely they were. Not only would they need a US Rep to state the bills were fake but they would also at some point turn them over to US authorities.

[electau]

Using polymer notes and having different colours for denominations solves a lot of conterfeiting. The USA has never changed its colour or size of its bank notes and they are still paper.

They may well have been counterfeit. Did he have a formal receipt for the original banknote purchase in the RSA?

Did he file a formal complaint with his embassy?

[arch77778]

An update from the South African newspaper correspondent who wrote the original news item.

"I did read it and am also trying to get more info from Rennies over this "fake notes"saga.However,i was not aware that they were investigating this.I also got an email from the Thai Embassy and the author said all that had been published was not true,no money was demanded and given,the person had not been prosecuted or held against his will"

So,there will be a follow up story.

[tombkk]

An update from the South African newspaper correspondent who wrote the original news item.

"I did read it and am also trying to get more info from Rennies over this "fake notes"saga.However,i was not aware that they were investigating this.I also got an email from the Thai Embassy and the author said all that had been published was not true,no money was demanded and given,the person had not been prosecuted or held against his will"

So,there will be a follow up story.

Wow, thanks. Good news. Should there be a follow-up story, please post the link in this thread, because it may not make headline news at ThaiVisa and we'll miss it if it is posted somewhere in the general news.

[jimbeam1]

There is not enough information here -- specifically credible information -- to conclude that "correct legal procedures were not followed" (or were followed).

Of course, we are basing our opinions upon newspaper articles, but would you not agree that prior-agreed legal procedure was NOT followed, in that the senior police officer and relevant Honorary Consulate were not promptly informed of his arrest?

Wow I have managed to read all through this thread. I must say very amusing and entertaining.

I would like to thank simon43 for posting some of the very few credible comments.

I'm off to the local market now. To buy provisions for this evenings meal. Might even try using my ATM card.

[BigBikeBKK]

This story smells fishy. Why would anyone exchange their cash at a travel agency instead of a bank? Why would you bring US Dollars to Thailand instead of Thai Baht? It just doesn't make sense...

I've bought travelers checks from travel agencies, so why not currency exchange too? Why bring US$ to Thailand? Because it's nearly impossible to buy Thai Baht outside of Thailand and even if you could find some the exchange rate would be terrible. Duh!

[govekidao]

An accusation from an aggrieved holiday maker channeling his anger through a rookie journalist vs a counter-accusation originating from a senior member from one of the worlds most dishonest constabularies...

This story is totally indecipherable !!!

[SAffer]

An accusation from an aggrieved holiday maker channeling his anger through a rookie journalist vs a counter-accusation originating from a senior member from one of the worlds most dishonest constabularies...

This story is totally indecipherable !!!

I would agree with you, there is a real possibility of 2 wrongs making a great story for the papers.

[wana]

this whole story is undecipherable ..........

it comes down to whos more corrupt ?

thailand or south africa ,

if i had to flip a coin id say thai police/lawyer/money exchange office probably screwed this guy over because they thought he was wealthy ..............but its dam_n close !

the exchange in SA could have also screwed him over before he even got to thailand

nothing in this story is provable or disproveable

[SAffer]

this whole story is undecipherable ..........

it comes down to whos more corrupt ?

thailand or south africa ,

if i had to flip a coin id say thai police/lawyer/money exchange office probably screwed this guy over because they thought he was wealthy ..............but its dam_n close !

the exchange in SA could have also screwed him over before he even got to thailand

nothing in this story is provable or disproveable

Apparently Thailand still leads SA in the corruption scale... but rest assured we are doing our best to change that.