The Dangers Of Cultural And Historical Ignorance: Thai Opinion

[webfact]

EDITORIAL

The dangers of cultural and historical ignorance

The Nation

Yet another asinine display of our lack of cultural awareness puts Thailand in an unwanted spotlight

A few years ago, a beer bar on Sukhumvit Road thought it would be cute, or a good marketing ploy, to have its staff dress up in Nazi uniforms and give "Sieg Heil" salutes to people passing by.

It didn't take long for the operators to realise that it was a bad idea. The looks from the faces of passers by - and the fact that the gimmick didn't attract many customers - was enough to seal the fate of that asinine marketing stunt.

The intersection where the bar was located was frequented by foreign men on a night out. An encounter with a prostitute may have been on the list of activities for some of the visitors, but drunk or sober, all had enough sense to realise what constitutes common decency in the case of this bar's ridiculous ploy. It was the customers' shunning the bar's bad taste that got the owners to react.

A couple of years ago, there was uproar after a Thai wax museum in Pattaya put up highway billboards using the image of a saluting Adolf Hitler. The billboards quickly came down after the incident drew a fierce response from the Israeli and German embassies.

The museum management was quick to go into damage control mode, apologising for any offence it had caused and maintaining that they weren't celebrating the fascist dictator but pointing out that he is an important historic figure.

A few weeks ago in Chiang Mai, teenage girls from the Sacred Heart High School dressed up in full Nazi and SS Guard uniforms to celebrate their annual sports day. There isn't much actual sport held on that day; it's more of a fun-and-games activity, an opportunity to express oneself. Nevertheless, quite what they thought the Nazis have to do with fun and games is anyone's guess.

Of course they knew who Hitler was and knew what his regime did to six million Jews and minority peoples just decades ago. The questions here, therefore, are: What were the girls thinking? What had they learned at school? Does the school think it was all right?

The school said it wasn't aware of the plan because the students, in line with tradition, kept it to themselves until the parade day. Maybe so. We will never know the truth, although it is doubtful that none of the teachers or administrators knew.

Also, is it right to pass the buck to the students? Perhaps it is our education system, our entire society, or just our complete ignorance and indifference to the pain and suffering in the history in the other parts of the world. That may best explain why some Thai people are indifferent to atrocities and the pains that are suffered elswhere.

Our education system has been accused by some of fostering ultra-nationalist sentiment suggesting that the Thai race, whatever that means, is superior to others. True or not, many people in neighbouring countries despise us for our attitude toward them.

We don't even have to look as far as Germany and what happened there over half a century ago. Thailand's deep South serves as a reminder of how bad things can get if the issue of cultural and historical differences turn nasty. We must also be aware of the lack of empathy displayed in our attitude to migrant workers, as well as stateless highlanders.

Ignorance and indifference are something that exist not only in Thailand. Mistreatment of minorities occurs even in the most liberal societies. That, however, doesn't mean we have to adopt the attitude, which can eat into the national soul slowly but very surely. And given Thailand's political circumstances, the danger may be twice as high.

-- The Nation 2011-10-03

[Thai at Heart]

Whilst this article is limited to nazi parades and the such, a lack of understanding of the mistakes made in history either by Thailand or by others, consigns Thailand to make the same mistakes also.

How many constitutional re-writes is it so far?

[hellodolly]

Hard to believe the Nation could come out with such a insightful article.

I was amazed by the following item

quote

"Our education system has been accused by some of fostering ultra-nationalist sentiment suggesting that the Thai race, whatever that means, is superior to others."

That has been a attitude I have seen over and over again. All to often I have heard Thai used as a excuse to justify some goofy thing.

The article shows how little Thai's know of the world in general. This is a situation that will continue as long as schools are not forced to maintain a standard of credibility.

This means teach students how to do do mathematics teach them of Thailand's place in the world.

Teach them how to think with out the aid of a computer. Don't get me wrong computers are great tools bit that is all they are. Teach them how to use them as a tool not as a reason not to learn.

Rant over

[metisdead]

One post with inflammatory hyperbole has been removed. When replying to certain parts of a post, learn to use the Insert quotation feature, makes it easier to understand.

[nong38]

Understanding world history and not just the local chosen bits would bring great benefits to the thai people and the education system. Understanding alternative customs and cultures should aslo be addressed especially if you dealing with this on a regular basis as with atrading partner for example.

[hanuman2543]

"suggesting that the Thai race, whatever that means, is superior to others. "The biggest contibution the Thais made to the world is the invention of gogo bars. Really a reason to feel superior.

[jombom]

Given the fact that this part of the world is creating the Asean area, some education about other cultures and customs in the region would be helpful.

There is far too much super-nationalism in this region, leading to dangerous border tensions, in many places.

[geriatrickid]

"suggesting that the Thai race, whatever that means, is superior to others. "The biggest contibution the Thais made to the world is the invention of gogo bars. Really a reason to feel superior.

Actually, the contribution Thailand makes is that it is a food exporter. In a world with food shortages, the ability to create a surplus is a valuable contribution that helps maintain world peace. It may not be flashy, but if it is a major contribution.

In respect to the Nation's opinion peace, it was spot on and it is a shame that those who were making excuses for the students as poor naive innocent dears don't read the article a few times until the points sink in.

[CMX]

I too was surprised by the source of this opinion. It showed knowledge and some sophistication.

Reversing this Thai trend will depend upon better training of a far better and bigger teacher corps. And that won't happen until national power brokers take a similar point of view. As with all nations, such developments will take resources - and unfortunately, time.

Presently, only an international spotlight (with a risk to tourism) seems to get attention in Government.

[rkidlad]

A lot of 'foreigners' on here defended the Nazi parade by saying stuff like 'Don't be offended so easily' and 'This happened 1000's of miles away from Thailand. Why should they know and/or care?'They should know because it was 6 million 'human beings' who died. Thais are also 'human beings'. Also, it happened during 'World' War 2. I remember when first studying about all of this as a kid. It was horrifying. At the same time, I was keen to learn more. I think this was when I understood the importance of knowing about history. Even knowing about the history of 'foreigners' far, far away. P.s I'm not Jewish.

[hanuman2543]

"suggesting that the Thai race, whatever that means, is superior to others. "The biggest contibution the Thais made to the world is the invention of gogo bars. Really a reason to feel superior.

Actually, the contribution Thailand makes is that it is a food exporter. In a world with food shortages, the ability to create a surplus is a valuable contribution that helps maintain world peace. It may not be flashy, but if it is a major contribution.

In respect to the Nation's opinion peace, it was spot on and it is a shame that those who were making excuses for the students as poor naive innocent dears don't read the article a few times until the points sink in.

I meant more contributions like literature, important technical inventions, invention of new medicines etc. The new price of the rice thanks to the populist measures of the government will lead to that poor countries have to pay more for a staple food. If that is a valuable contribution is at least questionable .

Edited October 3, 2011 by hanuman2543

[Xangsamhua]

In respect to the Nation's opinion peace, it was spot on and it is a shame that those who were making excuses for the students as poor naive innocent dears don't read the article a few times until the points sink in.

What were the girls' parents thinking when they saw what their daughters were designing and sewing or getting made up for the day?

[Suttisan]

Most Thais don't even know about the Khmer Rouge, they love Angry Birds though

[robblok]

A lot of 'foreigners' on here defended the Nazi parade by saying stuff like 'Don't be offended so easily' and 'This happened 1000's of miles away from Thailand. Why should they know and/or care?'They should know because it was 6 million 'human beings' who died. Thais are also 'human beings'. Also, it happened during 'World' War 2. I remember when first studying about all of this as a kid. It was horrifying. At the same time, I was keen to learn more. I think this was when I understood the importance of knowing about history. Even knowing about the history of 'foreigners' far, far away. P.s I'm not Jewish.

I still stand by this view. THere are more important things to know and learn like the history of the countries that surround them.

Did you get educated on the killing fields ? I did not why.. because it happened so far away and so long ago. Why hold the Thais up to other standards. If i could choose between them understanding more important things like math / English or this I know what i choose. And yes its a matter of If because you cant cram everything in a young brain. In Europe yes we should learn about WW2, here.. not so much, just enough to know your offending ppl.

Still I think they should understand its not a good idea to dress up as a Nazi.

[cmsally]

Me thinks the Nation has been reading Thai Visa.

Having never seen the use of "asinine" in the Nation before and having used it myself in the Nazi parade topic a few days ago. Also the discussion of Thai race came up in that topic as well.

This could be fun; maybe we could start a few other topics and have direct influence on the Nation editorial.

Can I put forward a few other topics: such as the use of self parody and constructive criticism in developing a society

Then we can have : how far can moral and social issues be ignored in the interest of economic gain

Edited October 3, 2011 by cmsally

[animatic]

Me thinks the Nation has been reading Thai Visa.

Having never seen the use of "asinine" in the Nation before and having used it myself in the Nazi parade topic a few days ago. Also the discussion of Thai race came up in that topic as well.

This could be fun; maybe we could start a few other topics and have direct influence on the Nation editorial.

Can I put forward a few other topics: such as the use of self parody and constructive criticism in developing a society

Then we can have : how far can moral and social issues be ignored in the interest of economic gain

I thought the same thing.

Several of the points have been discussed here on TVF about this story.

I find it satisfying that someone at 'The Nation' slogs through the debris and food fights, and finds the real nuggets of well thought out ideas, and quite appropriately writes about it.

It touched on the ultra-nationalism in Thailand, and that no doubt is a core issue for the education and attitudes of Thais, that has led to this debacle.

Thailand is a very young nation at a cross roads of cultures, and early on Nationalism was used as a method of molding and holding together disparate groups into one homogenized group ; 'Thais'.

The problem is now that the job is done, nation built, it is self-perpetuating, it rolls on to the detriment of the nation and it's people, and maintains it's skewed image of itself, and that of it's attitudes towards it's neighbors and the world.

Also interesting to see them admit Thais are hated by their neighbors for their superoir attitude towards them. Honesty long overdue.

Edited October 3, 2011 by animatic

[Misterwhisper]

One doesn't need to wonder how this ultra-nationalist attitude is fostered when one looks into Thai history books. The Thais throughout the centuries only did great deeds, created a florishing, sophisticated, just civilization. The aggressors always were the "others", i.e. the Burmese (especially the Burmese!), the Khmer, the Lao. They were unsophisticated, murderous savages who only had one thing in mind: to destroy that peace-loving nation that was Siam or, to be more precise, her pre-cursor city states. No word that in fact the Thai themselves wrestled territories from the Khmer, the Lao and - yes - even the Burmese, more often than not by way of bloody warfare. In the process, they "acquired" (adopted?) a lot of the cultural traits of these peoples which they nowadays so despise. Classical Thai dance is basically an almost identical copy (down to the costumes) of Khmer classical ballet. Classical architecture is largely copied from the Lao and - again - the Khmer. One only has to get a brief glimpse of "Wat Arun" to recognise that it's distinctly Khmer in style. Even food: Curries based on coconut milk (particularly in northern Thailand) are Burmese in origin. The Thai script is a derivative of Pali and Khmer and thus hardly "original".Now, one cannot really hold this against the Thais. Many countries have to one larger or lesser degree adopted and modified some of the cultural achievements of their neighbours. But point out to a modern Thai how much of their "superior" culture is actually the product of other peoples and in the majority of cases you will earn a frown or even downright animosity for your refusal to acknowledge Thailand's cultural superiority or at least question it.

[cmsally]

Me thinks the Nation has been reading Thai Visa.

Having never seen the use of "asinine" in the Nation before and having used it myself in the Nazi parade topic a few days ago. Also the discussion of Thai race came up in that topic as well.

This could be fun; maybe we could start a few other topics and have direct influence on the Nation editorial.

Can I put forward a few other topics: such as the use of self parody and constructive criticism in developing a society

Then we can have : how far can moral and social issues be ignored in the interest of economic gain

I thought the same thing.

Several of the points have been discussed here on TVF about this story.

I find it satisfying that someone at Nation slogs through the debris and food fights,

and finds the real nuggets of well thought out ideas, and quite appropriately writes about it.

It touched on the ultra-nationalism in Thailand,

and that no doubt is a core issue for the education and attitudes of Thais.

Thailand is a very young nation at a cross roads of cultures, and early on Nationalism was used as a method of molding and holding together disparate groups into one homogenized group 'Thais'. The problem is now that the job is done, it is self-perpetuating, it rolls on to the detriment of the Nation and it's image of itself and that of it's neighbors and the world. Also interesting to see them admit Thais are hated by their neighbors for their superoir attitude towards them. Honesty long overdue.

One almost wonders if the author wrote it in the departure lounge of Suvarnabhumi Airport and is well out of here by now!

[Felt 35]

fostering ultra-nationalist sentiment suggesting that the Thai race, whatever that means, is superior to others

Well what fit better than Nazi uniforms then?

[BigRick]

A lot of 'foreigners' on here defended the Nazi parade by saying stuff like 'Don't be offended so easily' and 'This happened 1000's of miles away from Thailand. Why should they know and/or care?'They should know because it was 6 million 'human beings' who died. Thais are also 'human beings'. Also, it happened during 'World' War 2. I remember when first studying about all of this as a kid. It was horrifying. At the same time, I was keen to learn more. I think this was when I understood the importance of knowing about history. Even knowing about the history of 'foreigners' far, far away. P.s I'm not Jewish.

Why do you mention only 6 million jews who died during that war? Almost 60 countries participated in WW2 and total human losses were more than 78 million people!

Of those 78 million 20 million were Chinese killed by the Japanese(Brutally in some cases) but they don't get a Holocaust memorial. The way the Thais gloss over the Japanese atrocities in Thailand is amazing. Most Thais refuse to acknowledge their governments cooperation with the Japanese or the fact they basically gained huge amounts of land at the expense of Cambodia. I wonder if they have a wax chairman Mao? He killed a lot of his own countrymen like Stalin.

[animatic]

Me thinks the Nation has been reading Thai Visa.

Having never seen the use of "asinine" in the Nation before and having used it myself in the Nazi parade topic a few days ago. Also the discussion of Thai race came up in that topic as well.

This could be fun; maybe we could start a few other topics and have direct influence on the Nation editorial.

Can I put forward a few other topics: such as the use of self parody and constructive criticism in developing a society

Then we can have : how far can moral and social issues be ignored in the interest of economic gain

I thought the same thing.

Several of the points have been discussed here on TVF about this story. I find it satisfying that someone at Nation slogs through the debris and food fights, and finds the real nuggets of well thought out ideas, and quite appropriately writes about it.

It touched on the ultra-nationalism in Thailand,and that no doubt is a core issue for the education and attitudes of Thais.

Thailand is a very young nation at a cross roads of cultures, and early on Nationalism was used as a method of molding and holding together disparate groups into one homogenized group 'Thais'. The problem is now that the job is done, it is self-perpetuating, it rolls on to the detriment of the Nation and it's image of itself and that of it's neighbors and the world. Also interesting to see them admit Thais are hated by their neighbors for their superoir attitude towards them. Honesty long overdue.

One almost wonders if the author wrote it in the departure lounge of Suvarnabhumi Airport and is well out of here by now!

Actually I think he was already hated enough not to care.

And that is even MORE rare here.

Edited October 3, 2011 by animatic

[JeremyBowskill]

"suggesting that the Thai race, whatever that means, is superior to others. "The biggest contibution the Thais made to the world is the invention of gogo bars. Really a reason to feel superior.

Thats a bit harsh you seem to have left out the invention of som tam and shameless nose picking in public too!

[JeremyBowskill]

<BR>

<BR>"suggesting that the Thai race, whatever that means, is superior to others. "The biggest contibution the Thais made to the world is the invention of gogo bars. Really a reason to feel superior.<BR>

<BR><BR><BR>Thats a bit harsh you seem to have left out the invention of som tam and shameless nose picking in public too!<BR>

<BR><BR><BR>Actually I think the Chinese invented the latter along with coughing up lung butter and gobbing it out on public transport but I could be wrong im not a historian.

[rkidlad]

A lot of 'foreigners' on here defended the Nazi parade by saying stuff like 'Don't be offended so easily' and 'This happened 1000's of miles away from Thailand. Why should they know and/or care?'They should know because it was 6 million 'human beings' who died. Thais are also 'human beings'. Also, it happened during 'World' War 2. I remember when first studying about all of this as a kid. It was horrifying. At the same time, I was keen to learn more. I think this was when I understood the importance of knowing about history. Even knowing about the history of 'foreigners' far, far away. P.s I'm not Jewish.

Why do you mention only 6 million jews who died during that war? Almost 60 countries participated in WW2 and total human losses were more than 78 million people!

If the students had dressed like Joseph Stalin, I would have mentioned the 20 million people he killed. No one dressed like Stalin that day. This is about the Nazi uniform wearing Thai students. I'm not saying one has a more significant importance over the other. I'm talking about the matter at hand and not trying to digress like so many others do.

We live in an era of the internet. This is not North Korea. I can pretty much find information online in Thailand about anything. It's not hard to bypass the blocked websites.

If someone had a fancy dress party and told me to dress like 'Emperor Hirohito' , I might be inclined to find out who he is. it's like getting a tattoo in a foreign language and not checking what it means.

I guess this is what we call 'common sense'.

[Neurath]

"The school said it wasn't aware of the plan because the students, in line with tradition, kept it to themselves until the parade day."

This statement goes right to the heart of the problem.

[serenitynow]

"The school said it wasn't aware of the plan because the students, in line with tradition, kept it to themselves until the parade day."

This statement goes right to the heart of the problem.

Plus, it's a lie.

[rkidlad]

A lot of 'foreigners' on here defended the Nazi parade by saying stuff like 'Don't be offended so easily' and 'This happened 1000's of miles away from Thailand. Why should they know and/or care?'They should know because it was 6 million 'human beings' who died. Thais are also 'human beings'. Also, it happened during 'World' War 2. I remember when first studying about all of this as a kid. It was horrifying. At the same time, I was keen to learn more. I think this was when I understood the importance of knowing about history. Even knowing about the history of 'foreigners' far, far away. P.s I'm not Jewish.

Why do you mention only 6 million jews who died during that war? Almost 60 countries participated in WW2 and total human losses were more than 78 million people!

You must differentiate between soldiers/civilians killed as a means to an end and those who were killed as an end in itself; i.e. Hitler's Final Solution.

Or are you saying that putting people in concentration camps while they watch their parents slaughtered while awaiting a slow painful death in a gas chamber is the same as a civilian who was killed in a bombing raid?

I'm sorry I disagree with you. It absolutely does not matter who soldiers or civilians were killed, I'm talking about total human deaths caused by Hitler's policy and further war against humanity. It does not matter who and how was killed. I don't have to differentiate jews from the others who were killed.

Well, you should differentiate for this article because it's used Thais dressing as Nazis as a reference point. If they used WW2 as a whole then you might have a point.

[SteeleJoe]

"suggesting that the Thai race, whatever that means, is superior to others. "The biggest contibution the Thais made to the world is the invention of gogo bars. Really a reason to feel superior.

You actually think the Thais invented them?!

[hanuman2543]

"suggesting that the Thai race, whatever that means, is superior to others. "The biggest contibution the Thais made to the world is the invention of gogo bars. Really a reason to feel superior.

You actually think the Thais invented them?!

Can you enlighten me?

[SteeleJoe]

I also knew about The Khmere Rouge. I also studied about the Vietnamese war which Involved the States and Vietnam...

And Korea, Australia, Thailand, the Phillipines, New Zealand and (very importantly) China and the USSR.

The importance of knowing your history!