Aggressiveness Towards Farangs Lately

[parallaxtech]

Spot on. When the OP refers to children as "green fruit" I find that very disturbing indeed.

You don't pick, touch, or eat green fruit. So, what is your problem with that? As I said from the getgo I am not interested in anyone under 18. Some of you either can't read or are just blockheads. Those of you who want to commit a felony by attacking someone who asks your wife or daughter the time, directions, or how they are doing

in school, good-luck to you. Girls can easily handle chitchat or even a comeon. There is no reason for a male to intervene unless it is out of her control. You can not be there all the time so it's best that you know she can take care of things on her own.

[robsamui]

This is fascinating - if also a bit alarming.

I've been living here for 12 years now (Samui) and I think RickThai has put his finger on it.

10-12 years ago there were two elements involved. One was the attitude of the Thais who had come here from the mainland to find work. That community seemed to be quite pleasant and I never experienced any problems or hostility from them. But the Samui Thais were hostile aggressive and resentful. I myself had several unpleasant experiences and I read and heard of many others. (I'm not going to get distracted by launching into examples as this could fill pages . . .)

Since that time, and right up until the last 12 months or so, everything seemed to have levelled out. Local Govt representatives and farang communities have become integrated to some degree, police now seem to actually listen to both sides of a traffic accident (not simply 'farang pays') and I've met and got to know some delightful local people.

But in the last 2-3 years fewer tourists have been arriving. It's a knock-on effect that hits the hotels and resorts first then the reduction in spending gets passed down to the shops and cafes and eventually results in the ordinary Thai folks who rarely ever see a farang finding that their income is somehow dwindling. It's a kind of 'have cake and eat it' - many Thais were resentful when lots of farangs appeared but then got to enjoy the money they brought in and now are angry with white faces once again, this time because there are less of them.

And another point. There have been several very hard-hitting editorials in the last few months in The Nation newspaper, outspokenly criticising the Thai nation for its blind nationalism and inability to adjust to the world around them. The vein here is obvious: Thailand has its head up its bottom and can't compete economically with the superior farang world and is losing out as a competitive player, both in Asia and internationally. This was written in English and certainly won't have appeared in the Thai newspapers but the word will have spread - and if not the 'word' itself then no doubt the sentiments and feelings behind the message. Yet more resentment to add to the pile.

I'm curious to see how all this is going to play out - but I don't have any jolly feelings about it all . . .

R

Did you write this ten years ago?? "Superior farang world" mired in debt.

ERM - - read what I wrote!

I was referring to what Thai editor of The Nation has been writing about the competitiveness of the Thai nation. Sorry if I used too many words for you.

And anyway - when was the last time you saw Thai engineers working on a civil engineering project anywhere in the farang world??

R

Edited October 13, 2011 by robsamui

[parallaxtech]

Who in their right mind believes it is normal to have a wife 70 years younger? Or worry that their own wife is 24 years younger and is way too old? What is this talk about 16 year old girls on fake IDs, many of whom are pregnant? And as to references to human beings, potentially wives, as black bananas, fresh fruit and green fruit, well this is all beyond me.

If the OP seriously means all these things, then I am not surprised he is having some problems. What sympathy had has now gone!

======================================================================================================================================

Unlike others I don't impose morality on anyone. Nobody on TV or even a monk would pass a morality test, so it's a fool's errand. If friends or others want to date much younger women or even a kangaroo, more power to them. It's their choice and has nothing to do with any relationship I have with them. As they say, "The moral majority is neither." The only place I draw the line is with the law. If someone I know is breaking it I warn them of the consequences.

Never asked for sympathy, but only wanted two things:

1. To warn others about these pikeys/gypsies

2. To ask if I should have the guy arrested (answer was no)

\Roo: You should close this thread as it keeps getting off topic and I received the answers I needed. Somebody else can start a topic on "Relationships with Thai women" if they want.

[BangrakBob]

friends with marsupial persuasions....what next?

[RickThai]

RickThai, may I suggest you just leave Thailand and go back to your country of origin, if you are such a racist.

Not sure what you are going on about.

My comment about Eastern European and Asian tourists was based upon my observations.

Last November, while on a fishing/snorkleing trip, my wife and I spent some time talking to the Captain of the ship (a Thai). Most of the tourists were Russian and they were, for the most part, very pushy and agressive. I mentioned this to the Captain and he replied that he didn't care for Russian tourists because they were too demanding and never tipped anyone. He also said he was seeing more and more of them than in the past. According to the Captain, the only people who tipped him during this particular trip, were my wife and me, and two people from South Africa.

That is just one observation of course, but I think it was relevant to the topic, about if (and subsequently) why Thais may or may not be becoming more agressive with foreigners. The changing demographics of the tourists can have a big impact on the locals in terms of finances and attitudes.

As for being a racist, I have been married to a Thai for 36 years. I have lived in sereral countries (Thailand, Italy, Taiwan) and have visited about 40 more countries.

I have enjoyed and made friends with people in every country I have visited, but I do believe that, in general ways, cultural upbringing influences the behavior of some nationalities.

I can usually tell a German from an Italian from the way the carry themselves and interact with others. Is that racist? Or just being observant? Cultural clues are there, you just have to look for them.

Regards,

RickThai

[smokie36]

Spot on. When the OP refers to children as "green fruit" I find that very disturbing indeed.

You don't pick, touch, or eat green fruit. So, what is your problem with that? As I said from the getgo I am not interested in anyone under 18. Some of you either can't read or are just blockheads. Those of you who want to commit a felony by attacking someone who asks your wife or daughter the time, directions, or how they are doing

in school, good-luck to you. Girls can easily handle chitchat or even a comeon. There is no reason for a male to intervene unless it is out of her control. You can not be there all the time so it's best that you know she can take care of things on her own.

I know what you meant. I'm more disturbed by your general attitude towards females. To suggest at 16 the girl is "green fruit" but at 18 would be "ripe for picking" is not only insulting but to most of us it really is downright appalling for a man of your age.

Each to his own....referring to your original post I'm not surprised at all by the reaction of this Thai man....he obviously has a decent understanding of what you're all about.

[rubin]

RickThai, may I suggest you just leave Thailand and go back to your country of origin, if you are such a racist.

Not sure what you are going on about.

My comment about Eastern European and Asian tourists was based upon my observations.

Last November, while on a fishing/snorkleing trip, my wife and I spent some time talking to the Captain of the ship (a Thai). Most of the tourists were Russian and they were, for the most part, very pushy and agressive. I mentioned this to the Captain and he replied that he didn't care for Russian tourists because they were too demanding and never tipped anyone. He also said he was seeing more and more of them than in the past. According to the Captain, the only people who tipped him during this particular trip, were my wife and me, and two people from South Africa.

That is just one observation of course, but I think it was relevant to the topic, about if (and subsequently) why Thais may or may not be becoming more agressive with foreigners. The changing demographics of the tourists can have a big impact on the locals in terms of finances and attitudes.

As for being a racist, I have been married to a Thai for 36 years. I have lived in sereral countries (Thailand, Italy, Taiwan) and have visited about 40 more countries.

I have enjoyed and made friends with people in every country I have visited, but I do believe that, in general ways, cultural upbringing influences the behavior of some nationalities.

I can usually tell a German from an Italian from the way the carry themselves and interact with others. Is that racist? Or just being observant? Cultural clues are there, you just have to look for them.

Regards,

RickThai

Rick, OK racist not racist is up to you. However, generalisations like ALL Russians, ALL Mid-Eastern people, ALL English is not so good. There are good and bad people in each nation. Will you like if I say ALL British are alcoholics? I think you won't

[grumpyoldman]

Rubin, I'm not seeing where Rick says "ALL", I'm seeing "most", and I'd say there is a difference.

I'm from the U.S. and I'd agree and not be offended, if someone where to say "Most Americans are loud and most Americans are fat". In fact, I'd say that's pretty close to the truth.

Anyway, we are off topic, best to get back to the OP's disturbing attitudes toward women. "Green fruit" yeeeeeeeesh..........

[insertmembernamehere]

The OP says that his youthful girlfriend calls him: "uan" (อ้วน) and says it means, "slightly fat." It means "fat," not slightly fat.

As I said before, I wonder if you used your Lonely Planet phrasebook Thai to ill effect at some point in the past.

As for being the target of disdain by locals for going with a girl 24 years one's junior, that could mean that the man is 48 and the woman is 24 (of course it could mean the man is 82 and the woman is 58 too...), but whatever the case, the Thais are certainly used to this situation. No man with a younger woman stands out in a crowd as being out of the ordinary here. And it might be mentioned that in the big city of Bangkok, it is not uncommon to see well-stationed older men with younger satellites.

As for taking the piss out of the OP for his "green fruit" reference, even if he is serious and not being baiting, who cares? Thailand is world famous for this sort of thing; try turning the other cheek. Given the maturity factor here with the women, I'd say quite a few 24-year-old Thai ladies are mental green fruit.

[maccaroni man]

The OP says that his youthful girlfriend calls him: "uan" (อ้วน) and says it means, "slightly fat." It means "fat," not slightly fat.

As I said before, I wonder if you used your Lonely Planet phrasebook Thai to ill effect at some point in the past.

As for being the target of disdain by locals for going with a girl 24 years one's junior, that could mean that the man is 48 and the woman is 24 (of course it could mean the man is 82 and the woman is 58 too...), but whatever the case, the Thais are certainly used to this situation. No man with a younger woman stands out in a crowd as being out of the ordinary here. And it might be mentioned that in the big city of Bangkok, it is not uncommon to see well-stationed older men with younger satellites.

As for taking the piss out of the OP for his "green fruit" reference, even if he is serious and not being baiting, who cares? Thailand is world famous for this sort of thing; try turning the other cheek. Given the maturity factor here with the women, I'd say quite a few 24-year-old Thai ladies are mental green fruit.

+1

[itishothere]

As for taking the piss out of the OP for his "green fruit" reference, even if he is serious and not being baiting, who cares? Thailand is world famous for this sort of thing; try turning the other cheek.

I have to say, that I care. I really do. I don't think referring to young women as 'green fruit' is right. Nor do I think referring to the local population as monkeys, or other derogatory terms is right. (Not in this thread, but I have heard it elsewhere.) Where do you draw the line?

And maybe Thailand is world famous. But for what? For older men flashing their wealth around and bedding girls young enough to be their grand-daughters? I would agree that there are many young girls desperate to break out of their poverty. But to turn them into sexual playthings for our benefit just because we have more money than them is wrong.:jap:

[limbos]

As for taking the piss out of the OP for his "green fruit" reference, even if he is serious and not being baiting, who cares? Thailand is world famous for this sort of thing; try turning the other cheek.

I have to say, that I care. I really do. I don't think referring to young women as 'green fruit' is right. Nor do I think referring to the local population as monkeys, or other derogatory terms is right. (Not in this thread, but I have heard it elsewhere.) Where do you draw the line?

And maybe Thailand is world famous. But for what? For older men flashing their wealth around and bedding girls young enough to be their grand-daughters? I would agree that there are many young girls desperate to break out of their poverty. But to turn them into sexual playthings for our benefit just because we have more money than them is wrong.:jap:

That may be wrong itshothere, but that's been the case since the profession started and isn't this the oldest profession in the world?

The OP's train of thought does leave a bitter taste and makes me slightly uncomfortable though.

[RickThai]

parallaxtech,

Maybe you were trying to be clever or funny with your analogy, but as many posters have pointed out, referring to women (Thai or otherwise) as fruit just waiting to be picked, is at best, insensitive, and at worst, miscogynistic.

Aso, if women your age are "black fruit", what does that make you? "Black falong"??

No wonder so many women are turning to other women for affection and long-term relationships.

Another consideration in this case might be religion. As many of you know, Koh Samui has a sizeable population of Muslims.

Thais who are Buddhists are taught to be very tolerant. I think this is well represented in Thailand as a whole.

However, Thais who are Muslims may not be as likely to be so tolerant (especially when it comes to female relatives).

Lastly, everything I've posted (and most other posts as well) on this topic do consist of generalizations (rubin), but the very topic itself is a generalization, and so, by definition, any attempts to reasonably answer the topic will contain generalizations.

Rubin,

I apologize if I have offended you or anyone else (as I've already stated this in another post), but for the record, my comment was about people of certain Nationalities (i.e. cultural differences) not about race.

Russians, Eastern Europeans, and Mid-eastern peoples for instance comprise several different races.

As for the Brits (I am a US Citizen), I've found them to be mostly standup guys and a lot of fun to drink with (back when I drank), but I'm sure they, like most nationalities, including the US, display some pecularities that others might think odd (warm beer, for chrissakes, maybe they really are ALL alcoholics?).

So have at them, doesn't bother me in the least .

And yes, I agree with grumpyoldman, that a lot of Americans do come across as "loud and fat". Just visit a Club Med and compare the French with the Americans.

I also agree that the "culture differences" discussion is off topic!.

Best to all,

RickThai

Edited October 14, 2011 by RickThai

[sbk]

As for taking the piss out of the OP for his "green fruit" reference, even if he is serious and not being baiting, who cares? Thailand is world famous for this sort of thing; try turning the other cheek.

I have to say, that I care. I really do. I don't think referring to young women as 'green fruit' is right. Nor do I think referring to the local population as monkeys, or other derogatory terms is right. (Not in this thread, but I have heard it elsewhere.) Where do you draw the line?

And maybe Thailand is world famous. But for what? For older men flashing their wealth around and bedding girls young enough to be their grand-daughters? I would agree that there are many young girls desperate to break out of their poverty. But to turn them into sexual playthings for our benefit just because we have more money than them is wrong.:jap:

That may be wrong itshothere, but that's been the case since the profession started and isn't this the oldest profession in the world?

The OP's train of thought does leave a bitter taste and makes me slightly uncomfortable though.

I didn't get the impression that the 16 year old girl in the story was doing any other work than a market stall, every woman/girl is not fair game and are not all prostitutes. Perhaps not what you meant to suggest.

[limbos]

As for taking the piss out of the OP for his "green fruit" reference, even if he is serious and not being baiting, who cares? Thailand is world famous for this sort of thing; try turning the other cheek.

I have to say, that I care. I really do. I don't think referring to young women as 'green fruit' is right. Nor do I think referring to the local population as monkeys, or other derogatory terms is right. (Not in this thread, but I have heard it elsewhere.) Where do you draw the line?

And maybe Thailand is world famous. But for what? For older men flashing their wealth around and bedding girls young enough to be their grand-daughters? I would agree that there are many young girls desperate to break out of their poverty. But to turn them into sexual playthings for our benefit just because we have more money than them is wrong.:jap:

That may be wrong itshothere, but that's been the case since the profession started and isn't this the oldest profession in the world?

The OP's train of thought does leave a bitter taste and makes me slightly uncomfortable though.

I didn't get the impression that the 16 year old girl in the story was doing any other work than a market stall, every woman/girl is not fair game and are not all prostitutes. Perhaps not what you meant to suggest.

SBK, definitely not trying to say that all girls are prostitutes, maybe I misunderstood the post, i thought itshothere was referring to prostitutes, as you point out SBK, he may not be doing this, hence my respond is out of place in that context.

Not my response regarding the OP's train of thought though!

[itishothere]

I didn't get the impression that the 16 year old girl in the story was doing any other work than a market stall, every woman/girl is not fair game and are not all prostitutes. Perhaps not what you meant to suggest.

SBK, definitely not trying to say that all girls are prostitutes, maybe I misunderstood the post, i thought itshothere was referring to prostitutes, as you point out SBK, he may not be doing this, hence my respond is out of place in that context.

Apologies if my post was misleading. I was not referring to prostitutes, who I agree, are many in number here, and often know exactly what they are doing. It was the ordinary people, girls, women, kids, etc who I see spoken to and treated as if they were prostitutes, or as SBK says, fair game that I was trying to defend.

Many tourists and ex-pats here have a very patronising and dismissive attitude with Thais simply because they have more wealth. I hate it when I go to dinner and see people in the restaurant who you just know could probably buy the entire place, treat the staff like sh#t. Yes the food may be cheap, but that doesn't mean to say the people are too.

Anyway, I am going off topic. So apologies again. And why am I wide awake at 6 in the morning???

[limbos]

Agree with you itshothere on your pov regarding how women in general are sometimes treated in the LOS, one can not paint all Thai women with the same brush. Definately misunderstood your post!

Unfortunately some of the Westerners seem to lose perspective on how to behave sometimes.

[grumpyoldman]

I also agree that the "culture differences" discussion is off topic!.

I think not Rick, maybe this is the genesis of the OP.

In Uan's mind and with his cultural background it's quite o.k. to chat up a 16 year old girl, ask her where she goes to school, his views on women overall etc. (ad nauseum), whereas the (quite possibly) Muslim father or uncle sees this as way out of bounds. Cultural differences (?), absolutely.

Food for thought..............

[theblether]

Back on topic

I've noticed an increase in aggression from many farang men recently in Chiang Mai, and they don't have to look far to get a Thai male to take the bait. I witnessed three outrageous and uncalled for farang acts of aggression in one two week period. Please note, witnessed, I wasn't involved.

I think you need to be deranged to go looking for a fight in Thailand, but this year I've noticed a fair few guys strutting about like peacocks looking for someone to peck. One sure way to get pecked is to hit on a 16 year old girl in front of her father, so if I was the OP I would take the hint and modify my behaviour.

I haven't been to Koh Samui or the other islands outwith of Phuket, however the anecdotal evidence I'm hearing from many people is that they are attracting a lot of undesirables, especially to the full moon parties. It looks like a series of pressure cookers waiting to explode.

There seems to be a back story building with the OP and he should go have a look in the mirror, as these back stories have a habit of building into big stories.

[outofoz]

Bruce, please take a picture of them. If I wanted black bananas I could find plenty in my orchard back home. Like most men here, I came for the fresh fruit. My wife is 24yrs younger, but I still feel she is way too old. My buddies who are ten years older have girlfriends/wives much younger than mine and it bothers me. That's the wonderful thing about life, though, you can choose anyone you like. If you prefer an old beater more power to you. I'll take the sleek new model.

funny how you expressed outrage in your OP...seems clearer now that the thai gentleman was on to you

[outofoz]

funny i should see this topic....i just moved back to lamai after 10 months....dont have any enemies here in fact dont mix much with the thai locals in lamai at all, dont go out to bars or anything - keep myself to myself really....used to always love my morning trip to the market for noodles and coffee... a few days ago at 8am i returned to my bike to find dog crap in the footwell....i thought weird for a dog to pass and poop in my footwell...didnt think anything of it - then today the same thing happened. someone clearly thinks it is funny to put dog crap in the white womans bike....its the first time i have felt truly targeted and unwelcome.

I intend on getting my good thai friend from chaweng to come with me tomorrow and have a few words with the sellers around where i leave my bike....personally i think it is the guys who sit on the wall of the familymart opposite lamai market. My friend is going to be furious when i tell him - he will consider it an extreme loss of face to him and thai people that they should do this.

Its beyond me why they would do this to me makes me sad and feeling targeted now......if i were a tourist i would not think much of the land of smiles or samui right now.......

It's those random and unexplained acts that can be so disconcerting

[joe84330]

funny i should see this topic....i just moved back to lamai after 10 months....dont have any enemies here in fact dont mix much with the thai locals in lamai at all, dont go out to bars or anything - keep myself to myself really....used to always love my morning trip to the market for noodles and coffee... a few days ago at 8am i returned to my bike to find dog crap in the footwell....i thought weird for a dog to pass and poop in my footwell...didnt think anything of it - then today the same thing happened. someone clearly thinks it is funny to put dog crap in the white womans bike....its the first time i have felt truly targeted and unwelcome.

I intend on getting my good thai friend from chaweng to come with me tomorrow and have a few words with the sellers around where i leave my bike....personally i think it is the guys who sit on the wall of the familymart opposite lamai market. My friend is going to be furious when i tell him - he will consider it an extreme loss of face to him and thai people that they should do this.

Its beyond me why they would do this to me makes me sad and feeling targeted now......if i were a tourist i would not think much of the land of smiles or samui right now.......

It's those random and unexplained acts that can be so disconcerting

ya that's malice. premeditated. probably you'll never know why. probably doesn't matter too much either because there won't be any satisfactory resolution to the matter. doesn't matter if you're in thailand or topeka. some people are just going to be shitty no matter what.

[sambala]

I was in Samui in August. I visit every summer for 3 weeks with my family. I always have a night or 2 out with farang mates who live on the island and I usually drive.

So i was in Chaweng and driving our rented minivan. It was after 2am in the morning. My friend wanted to stop to pop in a shop and purchase a drink. So i pulled over and a songthrew was trying to get past my vehicle and was struggling to squezze past my minivan, so I pulled up and over a bit further to help him get past. As he past my minivan he stopped and put his foot to the floor on his accelerator and blew black smoke into my vehicle. I knew at this point he was upset! So my mate gets back in my minivan and as i start to drive along I find that the Songthrew driver has stopped in the middle of the road delibratley to stop me getting past. The songthrew driver then gets out his vehicle and starts pointing at my vehucle and starts waving his arms in the air and shouting! I put my window down and in my limited thai start apologising and saying I want no troouble etc. But by now there is an audiance of a few thai men listening and taking note of what he saying. My mate has also jumped out of vehicle tot ry and calm the situation down. The Songthrew driver comes to my vehicle window, together with another thai guy and within a split second I have been punchend in the eye, not by the Songthrew driver but by the guy who was listening to what he had to say! I thought here we go, no other farangs around, and about 10-15 thai guys around the vehicle! At this point my mate gets back in my minivan very quickly. I am again reiterating that we dont want any truoble etc. But I thought we were goners. The songthrew driver had left his vehicle door open, So i ddid have an option to get past his vehicle, but I would have had to take his door off! Not a good idea! I think he then realised himself that things were about to get out of hand and moved his vehicle so I caould get past.

Anyway scarey situation and in my 8 years of visiting Samui I never had any dramas like this at all, and I am hoping it was an isolated incident as I have an house in Plai Leam and are looking to retire to the island over the next few years.

Any comments on this are welcome and i do apologise for the spelling mistakes.

[Birdman]

I drive on Samui since 20+ years. Nothing bad happened so far. The only bad situation was years ago on the highway a few kms before Pattaya during rush hour.

Someone knocked on my window and I saw a very angry Thai Chinese shouting that he is the bus driver from a big tour bus appr 80 meters behind me and because of my driving he had to brake abruptly, an d that to the discomfort of all the Korean tourists in the bus.

I know exactly about Thai drivings after xxx.xxx kms here on all kind of roads and I honestly could not realize any bad driving by me, but anyway apologized to the furious bus driver. Now he wanted that I leave my car, which was in the middle of that jam among many of other cars, just like his bus the 80 meters behind, go to that bus and apologize to the Korean tourists in that bus. I told him again that I am really sorry, but to that I could not agree, said friendly goodbye and closed the window.

Now the bus driver rushed to his bus, came back completely in rage with a baseball bat, shouted that I had to apologize to the Korean Tourists with that bat threatening over his head and as I did not open the window again trying somehow to ignore him he started to smash on my car...

so things like that can happen everywhere, not Samui specific

[BigC]

i must admit i haven't read every post on this topic but there semms

to be more agression from forangs to forangs than Thais to forangs. As far as being rascist goes.

Don't eve go there. everyone has rascisome in them to an extend. It is nothing to get serious about.

In different parts of the world they have different things that effend people.

For example Thais don't like to have black skin. if someone takes the micheal out of another Thai and call the DUm DUM then the Thai does not seem to get effended neither when you call a Thai woman fat. they just take it as an observation.

though i would probably have a sore face if i called a fat english woman fat even though it would be a fact.

anyway if people want to get highlu strung for no need about rasisme. then how do forangs feel about being called forangs.

I mean if we are all equal then surely we should be called Westerners or ENglishman,German,Italian etc.

I don't care for me it is just a word. i have more important things to worry about and if someone calls me fat and i am fat then i take it as a compliment and try do do soething about it.

As for young girls being prostitutes.

In allot of cases there are many parties to blame.

1st people to blame is that girls parents.

2nd is the people that provide a market for these young girls.

3rd is probably the drug seen and greed.

personally when i see an old man with grey hair about 50 years up with a girl that looks about 18 i feel like smashing what ever teeth out of the old man. There again i do not see the young lady fighting to get away.

So i think to myself if i get to 60 years plus and i am approach by a young atttractive girl. Would i turn her down. would i get a chance like this back home.

i doubt it.

It is important to rememeber who aproaches who.

Anyway it al evens out.

normally old people fall in love with these young girls. leave there families behinde and end up without a pot to piss in within a few years and the young girl then has a fartherless kid and the rest of her life is mapped out with drugs and prostituition.

what ever wil be will be.

Personally i do think it is wrong but there is a whole network to blame.