1,000 Boats To Push Flood Waters From Chao Phraya River

[sirchai]

The gift that keeps giving and giving....

"triple the rate of drainage from 2 knots to 6 knots".........

What ever he is smoking...I want some..

Must have been hand rolled from AFGH...

[h90]

Wow they're actually going ahead with this sadly embarrassing folly then.

It would seem so....

In the past I have been an advocate of letting Thailand persue commerical nuclear power if it so desired, but seeing as any commerical nuclear development plan would have the esteemed minister of science involved, I think I will withdraw my support for commerical nuclear development in Thailand while the esteemed Khun Plopadrop is in office...:jap:

My opinion: I am pro nuclear power, but not now and not with these people.

I read some suggested places, which were also silly. Most probably the places were suggested on base of which important person has there land for sale instead of safety or being close to the places which need the electric.

[sirchai]

The gift that keeps giving and giving....

"triple the rate of drainage from 2 knots to 6 knots".........

What ever he is smoking...I want some..

Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra yesterday inspected the Charoenrat Water Pumping Station in Tambon Klong Dan of Samut Prakan's Bang Bo district.

And did she see something, or did any thing happen? Shouldn't INSPECTORS inspect, instead of DARK MATTER?..

[MaxYakov]

Boats displace water so having 1,000 will actually raise the water level equal to the total displacement of all the boats. Drop one ice cube into a glass of water to view the effect.

Now, the only thing remotely connected to the reality of potentially having some marginal affect would be to tether all the boats at bridges so that they are anchored stationary, bows facing upstream, then fire up the engines in an effort to increase the flow rate and help move water downstream slightly faster.

What's that you say? Oh, they plan to use sailboats. Never mind.

Contemplate the possibility that all those boats are already in the water at this very moment

Shhhh ... He's submitted his application to the Ministry of Science and Technology. You could ruin his chances.

[MaxYakov]

Maybe a 1000 Nuclear aircraft carriers anchored near the end of the river and at full cruise power would have some effect but I doubt there is enough room.

There wouldn't be enough room in Nana, Soi Cowboy and Pat Pong, if they were all given liberty on the same day, that's for sure.

[BuckarooBanzai]

The series of shots shows the construction of LA's flood control channel, it's finished operation during non flood periods, and fully functioning during flood conditions. The bottom shot show a channel which is not lined with concrete.

The top shot is the original LA River, which was paved over (very early shot, notice the old car on the right). It would have been better to allow some leakage back into the ground along the way, like the bottom picture which is the San Gabriel river. Both have dams at the base of the mountains which act as part time flood collectors and most time recreational areas. Even Sepulveda Dam (seen in many commercials and TV shows) is a flood control (usually) dry dam.

In the old times in areas like Thailand or Egypt, flooding was good for the fields as new rich silt was deposited to make farming better. Now with the control of the rivers, more silt goes out to sea, in Egypt the Aswan dam collects the silt, probably making the situation worse by raising the seabed, reducing the flow, like what happens in the US by New Orleans.

River management and flood mitigation are expensive and often have unintended consequences. Building for the eventual Maximum flood is more expensive, and usually not approved due to costs. And large projects often, regardless of where you live, are breeding grounds of corruption.

River bypasses are used commonly throughout the world. A small example can be seen below. This particular bypass is in Bad Oeynhausen in Germany. They can be quite benign and are simply used to provide a short clean path for flood waters.

I would liken the construction of such a flood bypass for Bangkok as similar in scope to the building of a major roadway.

Your comments on graft and corruption are indeed true but it appears that you advocate no solution is the best solution?

Perhaps they should move Bangkok to the Khorat Plateau?

[MaxYakov]

<snip>

Plodprasop urged more owners of large vessels to join the project, in which the government will pay for the gasoline used.

<snip>

at a cost of... ???

300 Baht/day per vessel, of course. :jap:

Edited October 9, 2011 by MaxYakov

[Crushdepth]

I blame the media. In a sane country journalists would have shredded anyone pushing such a ridiculous idea and the minister would probably get chucked. Where is the outrage?

Anyway, I'm heading down to the river side with a paddle to do my bit.

[mgreijm]

Fondly thinking back when Dr Ploppie was the DG of the Royal Forest Department, what a funny man......the year after he became DG he announced that forest cover in Thailand increased because of his actions, actually he was true.....he "just changed the definition of forest" in which trees larger than 2 m suddenly were counted and thus increased the amount of forest from one year to the other There are some great leaders in Thailand with some very innovative ideas, keep them coming ... perhaps he should use his wealth as richest Minister of the Govt instead to assist the country

[KarenBravo]

If there was any doubt about the efficacy of the Thai education system, then, that doubt has been removed by comments from the Science and Technology minister.

It's quite obvious that the man was asleep during physics classes.

[Dellboy218]

What's next, turn your desk fans against the wind when a hurricane hits?

What a wonderful analogy you two, made my morning. I wonder if anyone special owns the boats or is selling the diesel required or in fact owns the construction company that will put the bridges back up that they will tear down. Perhaps now they will look at dredging the rivers of centuries of silt and general crap (!) and then identify and preserve their flood plains. This echoes the article in that other newpspaper that cannot be named when a dozen boats tied to what is probably now a damaged bridge supposedly increased river flow by 20%!!! Well, isnt the new slogan Miracle Thailand? It certainly is!

[Dag]

Helicopters are next in line to help....apparently.

Oh....and then.....there is a plan afoot to lift all of the boats out of the river to reduce the level....

[warfie]

Fondly thinking back when Dr Ploppie was the DG of the Royal Forest Department, what a funny man......the year after he became DG he announced that forest cover in Thailand increased because of his actions, actually he was true.....he "just changed the definition of forest" in which trees larger than 2 m suddenly were counted and thus increased the amount of forest from one year to the other There are some great leaders in Thailand with some very innovative ideas, keep them coming ... perhaps he should use his wealth as richest Minister of the Govt instead to assist the country

There's an idea!

Simply redefine "flood" to mean "waters less than 2m" and, problem solved!

[elgato]

This is a joke, right?

[warfie]

Fondly thinking back when Dr Ploppie was the DG of the Royal Forest Department, what a funny man......the year after he became DG he announced that forest cover in Thailand increased because of his actions, actually he was true.....he "just changed the definition of forest" in which trees larger than 2 m suddenly were counted and thus increased the amount of forest from one year to the other There are some great leaders in Thailand with some very innovative ideas, keep them coming ... perhaps he should use his wealth as richest Minister of the Govt instead to assist the country

There's an idea!

Simply redefine "flood" to mean "waters less than 2m" and, problem solved!

Damnit! I meant "waters greater than 2m"

[finnomick1]

I've been reading about this, but is this idea even feasible? Will it actually speed up the outflow or will it just create dangerous waves that crash against the river bank?

It sounds like a pilot telling a bunch of passengers about to crash to start flapping their arms.

No it is not feasible. The PTP minister is a laughing-stock on forums all over Thailand and most especially Thai language forums.

Any floating object displaces its own weight of fluid.

— Archimedes of Syracuse

1000 floating objects traveling in the same direction at the same time displace their combined weight of fluid upwards and outwards.

____cup-O-coffee of Thailand

What will really be laughable is that the water will indeed move in a direction and at a greater rate, but I suspect not in the direction hoped for. The force of 1000 boats and their inertia will cause more displaced water to flow over the embankments and into the public sector due to 1,000 boats moving into the area.

The wake alone, as they plow downstream will also create havoc. They are not bring the flow with them because they will be going faster than the flow, and instead be slicing the water and grading it to the left and the right. The water being pushed to the left and the right will not be able to recede back because of the string of wakes by the follow on boats adding to the outward push or force of the lateral displacement.

If you ever sat in a canoe when a slow moving, larger boat trawled by, you'll get an idea. Now multiply that times 1000. Anyway, we'll find out come October 11.

Do us all a favour........ What happens to the water after the inertia has no more effect ? Doh, it goes back where it came from...with waves too. And, think of all the cr*p that will be stirred up from the river bed during this operation. Just try pushing water across a hand basin with your hand -- what happens to it ? You need Moses here to sort out the problem, NOT 1000's of boats.....

[Artisi]

What's next, turn your desk fans against the wind when a hurricane hits?

What a wonderful analogy you two, made my morning. I wonder if anyone special owns the boats or is selling the diesel required or in fact owns the construction company that will put the bridges back up that they will tear down. Perhaps now they will look at dredging the rivers of centuries of silt and general crap (!) and then identify and preserve their flood plains. This echoes the article in that other newpspaper that cannot be named when a dozen boats tied to what is probably now a damaged bridge supposedly increased river flow by 20%!!! Well, isnt the new slogan Miracle Thailand? It certainly is!

Where did you get the idea from that the boats will pull down the bridges, the "bollard pull" of a tug-boat especially designed for this type of work has a very small capacity to actually "pull" - a 200 ton tug-boat might on a good day achieve 20 - 25 ton pull. whereas the load from the water flow acting on any bridge supports in the river would probably a greater risk than the boats, actually the boats pulling up-stream would help counter act the load on the bridge supports which would be a plus.

[FOODLOVER]

What's next, turn your desk fans against the wind when a hurricane hits?

SAIL BOATS!

[OzMick]

What's next, turn your desk fans against the wind when a hurricane hits?

What a wonderful analogy you two, made my morning. I wonder if anyone special owns the boats or is selling the diesel required or in fact owns the construction company that will put the bridges back up that they will tear down. Perhaps now they will look at dredging the rivers of centuries of silt and general crap (!) and then identify and preserve their flood plains. This echoes the article in that other newpspaper that cannot be named when a dozen boats tied to what is probably now a damaged bridge supposedly increased river flow by 20%!!! Well, isnt the new slogan Miracle Thailand? It certainly is!

Where did you get the idea from that the boats will pull down the bridges, the "bollard pull" of a tug-boat especially designed for this type of work has a very small capacity to actually "pull" - a 200 ton tug-boat might on a good day achieve 20 - 25 ton pull. whereas the load from the water flow acting on any bridge supports in the river would probably a greater risk than the boats, actually the boats pulling up-stream would help counter act the load on the bridge supports which would be a plus.

Correct ! But that bollard pull is also the amount of effect that the boat is having on the river flow (Newton's 3rd), and given the size of the flow, approaches the scientific minimum known as SFA.

[OzMick]

This is the land contour from north of Auttaya South to the bay. A flood control channel although expensive would protect all of the communities south of it's inlet if sized appropriately. The slope shows it would be a very simple construction project. It would not need to be a concrete structure. The first southern 75 km stretch would protect Bangkok and the rest of the northerly section would protect Auttaya. If they were serious about flood control they have to invest in more than the gasoline for motorboat taxis. The path of the channel could be adjusted to minimize impact on the public and as it would remain dry during the major portion of the year could be crossed in many places without bridges. The laminar flow would transport water very quickly from the north to the bay. The extreme northern inlet could be located close to Pa Mok and the inlet south could be located close to Ratchakham.

So what would you say is the degree of difference between the laminar flow of the Chaophraya and the mooted flood control channel and how much difference would that actually make, do you reckon?

Meandering rivers have chaotic flow where flood channels should result in laminar flows. Big difference in how energy is expended and the overall speed of the volume of water. I have given you enough to go on to Google the differences for yourself as I can give you no specifics.

Yep that would help the flow considerably especially if they added REAL pumping stations.. It need not be concrete but should have rock banks to prevent erosion, I've noticed there are several rivers here in Bangkok that have natural banks and roads running next to them one in particular has a drainage klong on one side and a wide flowing river on the other and they are constantly rebuilding the roads and the river bank as the flowing river erodes the bank below water level.

The fact that the drainage klong is only a few meters from the flowing river adds even more erosion as the water is leeching underneath between the 2. After only a year or 2 of erosion the road begins to get that washboard effect again and the river banks are flattening out, using large rocks to support the river bank would economically curb this process and pay for itself with years of maintenance free service from the road and the river bank....

Depth, width and bottom inconsistency create resistance to flow of which all have extreme effects on the rate of a rivers flow.. Done right and they could even install low flow, electric generating turbines to make good use of the additional water flow in the season without adversely effecting the intended purpose of faster water evacuation.

I'll tell you something else, this would give those poor folks in the line of these floods far more to like the government for then tax refunds on new cars or tablet computers all of which may end up underwater the next rainy season..

Energy is neither created or destroyed. The ONLY way to obtain electrical energy from a flow of water is to reduce it's kinetic energy (velocity), which is defeating the intended purpose of the channel.

Of course you could use the electricity to power pumps, thus increasing the flow rate, allowing you to extract more electrical energy, and then put in more pumps,......................

[JayBangkok]

What we need is OTOP!

One Tampon One Pint - some enterprising individual will be able to sell them once the floods are over.

[rixalex]

It sounds like a pilot telling a bunch of passengers about to crash to start flapping their arms.

AKA pissing in the wind.

[RickBradford]

From the Thai press today:

"Mr. Plotprasop said that, the method of spreading the water out into the Gulf of Thailand, will employ 1000 ships to push the water, and the Security Center is confident that the water level will definitely decrease."

So there.

[thaimite]

You need Moses here to sort out the problem, NOT 1000's of boats.....

BUT

even with Moses, as soon as he put his arms down the waters went back to their previous level drowning everybody

Next plan please.

[renaissanc]

I'm surprised that our beloved politicians have not suggested pushing the moon away so that the high tide changes by a week, thereby allowing the water from the North to flow into the sea. It seems so obvious!

[wana]

everyone should go to the river ,fill up and take home a bucket of water and flush it down their toilet ......

[Dellboy218]

What's next, turn your desk fans against the wind when a hurricane hits?

What a wonderful analogy you two, made my morning. I wonder if anyone special owns the boats or is selling the diesel required or in fact owns the construction company that will put the bridges back up that they will tear down. Perhaps now they will look at dredging the rivers of centuries of silt and general crap (!) and then identify and preserve their flood plains. This echoes the article in that other newpspaper that cannot be named when a dozen boats tied to what is probably now a damaged bridge supposedly increased river flow by 20%!!! Well, isnt the new slogan Miracle Thailand? It certainly is!

Where did you get the idea from that the boats will pull down the bridges, the "bollard pull" of a tug-boat especially designed for this type of work has a very small capacity to actually "pull" - a 200 ton tug-boat might on a good day achieve 20 - 25 ton pull. whereas the load from the water flow acting on any bridge supports in the river would probably a greater risk than the boats, actually the boats pulling up-stream would help counter act the load on the bridge supports which would be a plus.

That was, as I am sure you knew, a little tongue in cheek. It does depend though on how they are connected to the bridge and whether they use any protection. Wire ropes can make a mess. And what type of work are these tugs designed for? Doesnt say anything in this article. Previously they mentioned 400HP tugs further up river. These are very small tugs presumably designed to to pull small barges. But pulling on a wire rope without any protection for hours on end. I think I would want that bridge examined.

[h90]

I'm surprised that our beloved politicians have not suggested pushing the moon away so that the high tide changes by a week, thereby allowing the water from the North to flow into the sea. It seems so obvious!

they only need to towing it with the boats

[renaissanc]

This is a bit off topic ... What I like about ThaiVisa is that we can make fun of the politicians here, such as Plotprasop's proposal. The Bangkok Post censors any comment, which is not as serious as what you would find in the Letters page of The Times of London. It's no surprize that their News Forum numbers have dropped so much.

[thaimite]

If these politicians could suck as well as they can blow all that needs to be done is to get a bus load of them at the river banks.

They could all then suck in a mouthful, drive to Pattaya and spit it out.

Problem solved