The First Red Shirt District Officially Opened And Recognized Today

[backtonormal]

So much hatred for the redshirts and the way thai's are trying to live thier lives in thier country. What have the thais done to you people personally to breed such hatred? If you have such destest and hatred of the country and the people why are you here?

agenda, script and mostly fear

[backtonormal]

So this is part of the reconciliation process, of course the present Govt won't criticise it. It's turning into a banana republic run by monkeys.

name and shame before reconcilliation

[yoshiwara]

Always hilarious to read forum red 'oh so reasonable' apologetics for a policy led and promoted by Jatuporn. Shameless or what?

Edited October 9, 2011 by yoshiwara

[spud1]

Always hilarious to read forum red 'oh so reasonable' apologetics for a policy led and promoted by Jatuporn. Shameless or what?

Perhaps they could explain how sectarianism as ever been of benefit to any country.They can't see the forest for the trees.

[Mosha]

Can't be a Banana Republic, bananas are yellow.

[softgeorge]

Always hilarious to read forum red 'oh so reasonable' apologetics for a policy led and promoted by Jatuporn. Shameless or what?

And also hillarious to read how many on here think that having a red shirt district is going to create a Nazi Thailand or a Pol Pot regime. They seem so worried that farangs are going to be rounded up and moved to camps or be part of the new Killing Fields. The End is NOT NIGH.

[softgeorge]

Always hilarious to read forum red 'oh so reasonable' apologetics for a policy led and promoted by Jatuporn. Shameless or what?

Perhaps they could explain how sectarianism as ever been of benefit to any country.They can't see the forest for the trees.

Australia has strong Liberal and Labour areas as I am sure that the U.S has strong Republican and Democrat areas has this cause anarchy in these countries?

[rreddin]

So much hatred for the redshirts and the way thai's are trying to live thier lives in thier country. What have the thais done to you people personally to breed such hatred? If you have such destest and hatred of the country and the people why are you here?

Why do you talk about hatred? Being critical is the same as being hateful for you?

No hatred of red-shirts, just a very serious dislike of those self-important Pheu Thai UDD MPs. Please also keep in mind that 'red-shirts' and 'Thais' are NOT the same.

As to the 'why are you here', well I doubt all posters are, there's no need to be to be able to post you know. Who knows (and who really cares) where you are at this moment. Totally irrelevant, my dear chap

Chooka is correct. Welcome to the Thai Vengance Forum. It is a place populated by some who think with their small head, have limited experience of the country no matter how long they have lived here, who have no vote and few rights in this country, but who think they know what is best for all Thais. These same people want all the rights and freedoms of their home country, but deny them to Thais. At best, such people have contempt for Thais, at worst it is "a very serious dislike". With such guests in their country, it is little wonder that, in general, Thais do not like or trust farangs.

It is a valid question to ask: why are such people here? The attraction for some farangs is, the cheap and easy sex, cheep booze and for some, the drugs. Regrettably, they are ruining it for the rest of us who are here and their continuing outpouring of vitriol only hinders our chances of achieving improved rights.

Ruble: (1) Members of the red shirt movement ARE Thai. They have the franchise and are exercising their choice. You do not have to agree with them, but there is nothing you can do about it, so accept it. (2) "Hatred" means to dislike something greatly. Therefore, by your own words, you hate those Thais who also happen to be members of a certain political party. Your post is not only political in nature, it also has a hint of xenophobia. (3) To restore political balance, point me to where you and others have posted in this forum about [your] "very serious dislike of those self-important" Democrat MPs while they were in government.

[rubl]

Thanks for the obfuscation, straight answers seem not your strength.

If you don't like that the answer does not conform to your preconceived notions than don't ask me these questions, because you will not get a different answer. I would suggest then to stick with the posters that give you one liner answers on how much they hate the Red Shirts - you won't need to go through the frustrations my answers seem to give you.

And no, so far i do not see the elected government being anywhere close to a dictatorship. As we can see here in this overwhelmingly critical forum - even the most rabidly insulting posts are allowed to be posted. And i see more than a few very critical articles in the different newspapers. I see the PAD being allowed to hold their events. parliament is functioning, the opposition regularly criticizing the government.

Furthermore - the vast majority of political prisoners are actually supporters of this government, and not its opponents. Which dictatorship again, please?

As far as I know we have no political prisoners in Thailand. You may refer to LM charged or jailed people, but that's not the same. Ask k. Chalerm who just set up a special watchdog on LM and computer crimes

For the rest I'm trying to ignore some posts, maybe need to use the 'ignore' option again. Maybe just wait for the book

Edited October 10, 2011 by rubl

[Cayenne]

In a time when the country is trying to be united in helping people cope with the floods, we see the red shirts yet again try to remind everyone why they want to be different. We don't see any red shirt MPs like Jatuporn go out and help the flood relief efforts now do we? Far too busy going around launching red shirt districts here and there, and keep in mind we the tax payers are paying his MP salary to do this as well. Quite pathetic...

[yoshiwara]

Always hilarious to read forum red 'oh so reasonable' apologetics for a policy led and promoted by Jatuporn. Shameless or what?

Perhaps they could explain how sectarianism as ever been of benefit to any country.They can't see the forest for the trees.

Australia has strong Liberal and Labour areas as I am sure that the U.S has strong Republican and Democrat areas has this cause anarchy in these countries?

There is a fundamental difference between the democratic process and what Jatuporn and his mates are trying to implement. Try a different tack in trying to whitewash one of the leaders of anarchy and mayhem.

[siampolee]

Australia has strong Liberal and Labour areas as I am sure that the U.S has strong Republican and Democrat areas has this cause anarchy in these countries?

Pertinent comment.

I am sure one is not obliged to kow tow to the local Red Shirt Poo Yai either to ensure a peaceful life.

However I ,and I am sure the citizens of the aforementioned countries haven't noticed any members of those political groups causing chaos, mayhem , civil disorders arson and inciting armed opposition to the law keeping authorities on such a scale as we saw from the Red Shirt movement here in Thailand a year ago.

Whilst political demonstration in the aforementioned countries can and do become somewhat "lively" at times those demonstrations are the work of committed believers in their parties policies rather than paid agitators last year in Bangkok, who were later conned by their leaders and their pie in the sky promises.

I am sure that the rabid Australian hasn't gone on the rampage inciting arson in Australia since his return where probably he is now living on welfare payments.

Edited October 10, 2011 by siampolee

[yoshiwara]

So much hatred for the redshirts and the way thai's are trying to live thier lives in thier country. What have the thais done to you people personally to breed such hatred? If you have such destest and hatred of the country and the people why are you here?

Why do you talk about hatred? Being critical is the same as being hateful for you?

No hatred of red-shirts, just a very serious dislike of those self-important Pheu Thai UDD MPs. Please also keep in mind that 'red-shirts' and 'Thais' are NOT the same.

As to the 'why are you here', well I doubt all posters are, there's no need to be to be able to post you know. Who knows (and who really cares) where you are at this moment. Totally irrelevant, my dear chap

Chooka is correct. Welcome to the Thai Vengance Forum. It is a place populated by some who think with their small head, have limited experience of the country no matter how long they have lived here, who have no vote and few rights in this country, but who think they know what is best for all Thais. These same people want all the rights and freedoms of their home country, but deny them to Thais. At best, such people have contempt for Thais, at worst it is "a very serious dislike". With such guests in their country, it is little wonder that, in general, Thais do not like or trust farangs.

It is a valid question to ask: why are such people here? The attraction for some farangs is, the cheap and easy sex, cheep booze and for some, the drugs. Regrettably, they are ruining it for the rest of us who are here and their continuing outpouring of vitriol only hinders our chances of achieving improved rights.

Ruble: (1) Members of the red shirt movement ARE Thai. They have the franchise and are exercising their choice. You do not have to agree with them, but there is nothing you can do about it, so accept it. (2) "Hatred" means to dislike something greatly. Therefore, by your own words, you hate those Thais who also happen to be members of a certain political party. Your post is not only political in nature, it also has a hint of xenophobia. (3) To restore political balance, point me to where you and others have posted in this forum about [your] "very serious dislike of those self-important" Democrat MPs while they were in government.

'Hatred' here does not mean to dislike something greatly. It is a qualitative leap. A poor attempt to paint those opposing Thaksin's apologists as anti-Thai. Note that now it is 'anti-Thai' to be anti-red. I wonder whether in the light of the PTP government policy shambles that the pre-election 'pro-poor' slogans are being quietly dropped? Giving voters rubbish 'your village is red' campaigns will certainly not cause the north eastern landowners any loss of sleep at all. Much better that then implementing the promised minimum wages that are not happening.

[softgeorge]

I have a solution. Why don't they make all the other areas that aren't redshirt areas Yellow shirt areas that should keep the farangs happy. No wait that won't work either because the farangs will complain there are more redshirts and they have more area. Maybe just accept that you have freely come to a country that is prodominantly redshirt and has an elected government which you do not like. Apply for citizenship and at the next election have your say and vote for whom you think is best and accept the decision of the majority.

[Buchholz]

In a time when the country is trying to be united in helping people cope with the floods, we see the red shirts yet again try to remind everyone why they want to be different. We don't see any red shirt MPs like Jatuporn go out and help the flood relief efforts now do we? Far too busy going around launching red shirt districts here and there, and keep in mind we the tax payers are paying his MP salary to do this as well. Quite pathetic...

Mustn't forget that during the flooding, they had important football game to play in Cambodia and an opportunity to meet the Party financier.

.

[whybother]

I have a solution. Why don't they make all the other areas that aren't redshirt areas Yellow shirt areas that should keep the farangs happy. No wait that won't work either because the farangs will complain there are more redshirts and they have more area. Maybe just accept that you have freely come to a country that is prodominantly redshirt and has an elected government which you do not like. Apply for citizenship and at the next election have your say and vote for whom you think is best and accept the decision of the majority.

You don't get it, do you? The problem isn't that they have been declared "Red shirt" areas. The problem is that they have been declared "Anything" areas.

When do they start stopping people who aren't red shirt supporters from going into particular shops?

[Buchholz]

Thanks for the obfuscation, straight answers seem not your strength.

If you don't like that the answer does not conform to your preconceived notions than don't ask me these questions, because you will not get a different answer. I would suggest then to stick with the posters that give you one liner answers on how much they hate the Red Shirts - you won't need to go through the frustrations my answers seem to give you.

And no, so far i do not see the elected government being anywhere close to a dictatorship. As we can see here in this overwhelmingly critical forum - even the most rabidly insulting posts are allowed to be posted. And i see more than a few very critical articles in the different newspapers. I see the PAD being allowed to hold their events. parliament is functioning, the opposition regularly criticizing the government.

Furthermore - the vast majority of political prisoners are actually supporters of this government, and not its opponents. Which dictatorship again, please?

As far as I know we have no political prisoners in Thailand. You may refer to LM charged or jailed people, but that's not the same. Ask k. Chalerm who just set up a special watchdog on LM and computer crimes

For the rest I'm trying to ignore some posts, maybe need to use the 'ignore' option again. Maybe just wait for the book

The government's War Room for LM should not be confused with either of the government's other War Rooms...

Energy war room established

October 10, 2011

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/new/national/Energy-war-room-established-30167277.html

nor

Flood war room set to swing into action

October 8, 2011

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=503839&view=findpost&p=4750878

[jaidam]

Can't help but think these "red villages", or more specifically their political saviour would be better off removing certain undesirables from the villages to avoid conflict. Usually missions of total control starts by removing educated peoples such as doctors and teachers. Dissenting voices or voices of realism are of course not de rigeur.

They could learn alot from Prime minister Hun Sen about how to carry out the necessary purges. I'm sure he remembers the drill.

chant after me "For the greater good..."

[TAWP]

I have a solution. Why don't they make all the other areas that aren't redshirt areas Yellow shirt areas that should keep the farangs happy. No wait that won't work either because the farangs will complain there are more redshirts and they have more area. Maybe just accept that you have freely come to a country that is prodominantly redshirt and has an elected government which you do not like. Apply for citizenship and at the next election have your say and vote for whom you think is best and accept the decision of the majority.

Apart from being wrong on the facts that the red shirts somehow would be a majority in Thailand, you are still wrong in point that this is something many of us would like to see - even if it somehow ended up proving that the red shirts was a vocal minority.

The freedom from oppression by these extremist-groups include the freedom to live in your village without having to conform to a political view or suffer the consequences.

Or do you support the village heads reading out loud who voted for 'the enemy' in a village and having them be labeled as 'dogs'?

I do not, no-matter who they voted for.

[tonbridgebrit]

So much hatred for the redshirts and the way thai's are trying to live thier lives in thier country. What have the thais done to you people personally to breed such hatred? If you have such destest and hatred of the country and the people why are you here?

+1

This is a democracy and we are guests here. They vote and we can like it or not. But the bottom line is: Leave if you you will!

I wish most of you would!

Tiger

+2

The thai people voted in an election and it seems this has upset a lot of foreigners because they did get the government they wanted in a country that is not even thier own. Boo Hoo the yellow shirts didn't win. I have to agree there does seem to be a lot of hatred for thai people who do not support the views of the foreigners or do things the way a farang would do it. There is always an option if you do not agree with or like the Thai lifestyle.

Yes, +3

If this was back home in Britain, and a load of foreigners claimed that we are stupid for voting in OUR government, well, we the British people would throw away our traditional 'British reserve' and shove those words up where the sun don't shine. I've lived here in Thailand for some time now, and I'm willing to show tolerance to fellow foreigners who ridicule and laugh at the locals. But after a few beers in a few bars, I might revert back to how I think and feel when back home !!!

[yoshiwara]

So much hatred for the redshirts and the way thai's are trying to live thier lives in thier country. What have the thais done to you people personally to breed such hatred? If you have such destest and hatred of the country and the people why are you here?

+1

This is a democracy and we are guests here. They vote and we can like it or not. But the bottom line is: Leave if you you will!

I wish most of you would!

Tiger

+2

The thai people voted in an election and it seems this has upset a lot of foreigners because they did get the government they wanted in a country that is not even thier own. Boo Hoo the yellow shirts didn't win. I have to agree there does seem to be a lot of hatred for thai people who do not support the views of the foreigners or do things the way a farang would do it. There is always an option if you do not agree with or like the Thai lifestyle.

Yes, +3

If this was back home in Britain, and a load of foreigners claimed that we are stupid for voting in OUR government, well, we the British people would throw away our traditional 'British reserve' and shove those words up where the sun don't shine. I've lived here in Thailand for some time now, and I'm willing to show tolerance to fellow foreigners who ridicule and laugh at the locals. But after a few beers in a few bars, I might revert back to how I think and feel when back home !!!

In the UK governments are not voted in, they are formed from elected MPs. Same for Thailand. The argument here is not ridiculing or laughing at locals. It is, however, difficult not to laugh at the antics of the red leadership such as Jatuporn and the wet arguments put up by the forum Thaksin apologists. The ridicule is saved for the red cheerleaders who are in a hole and still keep digging.

Edited October 10, 2011 by yoshiwara

[nicknostitz]

In the UK governments are not voted in, they are formed from elected MPs. Same for Thailand. The argument here is not ridiculing or laughing at locals. It is, however, difficult not to laugh at the antics of the red leadership such as Jatuporn and the wet arguments put up by the forum Thaksin apologists. The ridicule is saved for the red cheerleaders who are in a hole and still keep digging.

This post is exactly what "ridiculing locals" means.

There are many arguments that can be brought against Thaksin and this government (elected by locals), yet you and your ilk ridicule the choice of those locals, not even bothering to come up with a coherent argument. Reading through this forum i am reminded of why at times here in Thailand i am deeply embarrassed to be a westerner that lives here.

Any explanation that does not conform to your hate mongering you swipe away as "Thaksin apologists" or "Red cheerleading". This behavior in any normal human conversation between grown ups in real life would be the end of the conversation, but as this is the internet...

Do you actually know what you are ridiculing? Have you ever been in one of the now thousands of Red Shirt villages, and talked with the locals?

Why don't you, for the sake of a somewhat intelligent and well mannered conversation at least formulate a coherent argument based on factual knowledge when you criticize the Red Shirt village movement instead of just ridiculing anyone that does not agree with your views? Sometimes you (and others) should step back and have a slightly deeper look at what you post and then maybe get to the epiphany that what you accuse these Red Shirts of - intolerance - you yourself are spreading here on this forum.

Good night.

[Buchholz]

Why do you talk about hatred? Being critical is the same as being hateful for you?

No hatred of red-shirts, just a very serious dislike of those self-important Pheu Thai UDD MPs. Please also keep in mind that 'red-shirts' and 'Thais' are NOT the same.

As to the 'why are you here', well I doubt all posters are, there's no need to be to be able to post you know. Who knows (and who really cares) where you are at this moment. Totally irrelevant, my dear chap

Chooka is correct. Welcome to the Thai Vengance Forum. It is a place populated by some who think with their small head, have limited experience of the country no matter how long they have lived here, who have no vote and few rights in this country, but who think they know what is best for all Thais. These same people want all the rights and freedoms of their home country, but deny them to Thais. At best, such people have contempt for Thais, at worst it is "a very serious dislike". With such guests in their country, it is little wonder that, in general, Thais do not like or trust farangs.

It is a valid question to ask: why are such people here? The attraction for some farangs is, the cheap and easy sex, cheep booze and for some, the drugs. Regrettably, they are ruining it for the rest of us who are here and their continuing outpouring of vitriol only hinders our chances of achieving improved rights.

Ruble: (1) Members of the red shirt movement ARE Thai. They have the franchise and are exercising their choice. You do not have to agree with them, but there is nothing you can do about it, so accept it. (2) "Hatred" means to dislike something greatly. Therefore, by your own words, you hate those Thais who also happen to be members of a certain political party. Your post is not only political in nature, it also has a hint of xenophobia. (3) To restore political balance, point me to where you and others have posted in this forum about [your] "very serious dislike of those self-important" Democrat MPs while they were in government.

'Hatred' here does not mean to dislike something greatly. It is a qualitative leap. A poor attempt to paint those opposing Thaksin's apologists as anti-Thai. Note that now it is 'anti-Thai' to be anti-red. I wonder whether in the light of the PTP government policy shambles that the pre-election 'pro-poor' slogans are being quietly dropped? Giving voters rubbish 'your village is red' campaigns will certainly not cause the north eastern landowners any loss of sleep at all. Much better that then implementing the promised minimum wages that are not happening.

The effort of attempting to link being anti-red into anti-Thai is a new spin.

It would certainly work to control any Thais in the Red villages.

.

[Buchholz]

In the UK governments are not voted in, they are formed from elected MPs. Same for Thailand. The argument here is not ridiculing or laughing at locals. It is, however, difficult not to laugh at the antics of the red leadership such as Jatuporn and the wet arguments put up by the forum Thaksin apologists. The ridicule is saved for the red cheerleaders who are in a hole and still keep digging.

This post is exactly what "ridiculing locals" means.

There are many arguments that can be brought against Thaksin and this government (elected by locals), yet you and your ilk ridicule the choice of those locals, not even bothering to come up with a coherent argument. Reading through this forum i am reminded of why at times here in Thailand i am deeply embarrassed to be a westerner that lives here.

<snip>

So now the red foreign cheerleaders are classed as "locals". Interesting.

And that ridiculing the damaging efforts of a Jatuporn or an Arisaman somehow requires additional coherence as to why it's damaging. Also interesting.

As for embarrassed, I'm much more embarrassed when encountering the sort of reaction in foreigners who share the Red mantra in thinking violence is the solution:

<snip>

we the British people would throw away our traditional 'British reserve' and shove those words up where the sun don't shine.

<snip>

after a few beers in a few bars, I might revert back to how I think and feel when back home !!!

[jayboy]

As for embarrassed, I'm much more embarrassed when encountering the sort of reaction in foreigners who share the Red mantra in thinking violence is the solution:

And where are these foreigners who believe red violence is the solution? I don't know any and I certainly haven't seen any such opinions expressed on this forum.

I do know of foreigners who are apologists for military violence against civilians,illegal coups, feudal fantasies and directed judicial intervention.But that's a different matter.

[TAWP]

Does any of your non-democratic rantings, your obvious disregard for peoples right to disagree with your cheer-leading, has anything to do with the topic: That the first Red Shirt district has opened and being recognized by Red shirt MPs?

[phiphidon]

Does any of your non-democratic rantings, your obvious disregard for peoples right to disagree with your cheer-leading, has anything to do with the topic: That the first Red Shirt district has opened and being recognized by Red shirt MPs?

TAWP, have a look again at your statement "your obvious disregard for peoples right to disagree with your cheer-leading". Now on reflection, wouldn't you agree that is precisely what you are displaying?

[softgeorge]

In the UK governments are not voted in, they are formed from elected MPs. Same for Thailand. The argument here is not ridiculing or laughing at locals. It is, however, difficult not to laugh at the antics of the red leadership such as Jatuporn and the wet arguments put up by the forum Thaksin apologists. The ridicule is saved for the red cheerleaders who are in a hole and still keep digging.

This post is exactly what "ridiculing locals" means.

There are many arguments that can be brought against Thaksin and this government (elected by locals), yet you and your ilk ridicule the choice of those locals, not even bothering to come up with a coherent argument. Reading through this forum i am reminded of why at times here in Thailand i am deeply embarrassed to be a westerner that lives here.

<snip>

So now the red foreign cheerleaders are classed as "locals". Interesting.

And that ridiculing the damaging efforts of a Jatuporn or an Arisaman somehow requires additional coherence as to why it's damaging. Also interesting.

As for embarrassed, I'm much more embarrassed when encountering the sort of reaction in foreigners who share the Red mantra in thinking violence is the solution:

<snip>

we the British people would throw away our traditional 'British reserve' and shove those words up where the sun don't shine.

<snip>

after a few beers in a few bars, I might revert back to how I think and feel when back home !!!

Some on here are still living in and have the cold war mentality. If someone supports the freedoms of Thais to do and say what they want in thier own country then they are branded a "Red Lover" as in the cold war people were branded commie lovers. I do not support red's, yellows or whoever but I do support thier basic rights and freedoms to do as they please within the law in thier country. Some on here if they had thier way they would restrict these freedoms of how Thai's live thier lives as they do not match thier personal farang ideology for thier own little utopia. This is not our country and we are not prisoners here. If a hoard of foreigners came into your country and starting dictating how this should be done and what you can and can't do I am sure that you would tell them to bugger off in not so polite terms. Some will argue that they are speaking for Thailand and Thais and they know what is best for them. Do you really know what is best for them and did they ask you to speak for them? I would guess some speak for themselves and what they think is best for them and thier own little utopia in someone elses backyard.

[gl555]

Some on here are still living in and have the cold war mentality. If someone supports the freedoms of Thais to do and say what they want in thier own country then they are branded a "Red Lover" as in the cold war people were branded commie lovers. I do not support red's, yellows or whoever but I do support thier basic rights and freedoms to do as they please within the law in thier country. Some on here if they had thier way they would restrict these freedoms of how Thai's live thier lives as they do not match thier personal farang ideology for thier own little utopia. This is not our country and we are not prisoners here. If a hoard of foreigners came into your country and starting dictating how this should be done and what you can and can't do I am sure that you would tell them to bugger off in not so polite terms. Some will argue that they are speaking for Thailand and Thais and they know what is best for them. Do you really know what is best for them and did they ask you to speak for them? I would guess some speak for themselves and what they think is best for them and thier own little utopia in someone elses backyard.

Well you know what? You're right, this is their country. I definitely do not support the Red Shirts. I do however support a military coup should the present government continue on its present path. Who are certain farangs to complain about coups since this is a common occurrance and part of Thailand? This is after all their country.

Edited October 11, 2011 by gl555

[nicknostitz]

Does any of your non-democratic rantings, your obvious disregard for peoples right to disagree with your cheer-leading, has anything to do with the topic: That the first Red Shirt district has opened and being recognized by Red shirt MPs?

The irony is quite overwhelming.

I have to wade through post after post of people comparing the Red Shirt villages to Pol Pot/Nazis/Italian Fascists, and the same posters agonizing over possible intolerance within these communities towards differing opinions - without ever having been in one of those villages, or having spoken with anyone connected to the Red Shirt Village movement. Yet here in this web based community anyone who does not follow the majority line of hate-the-Red-Shirts-no-matter-what is hounded as Red Shirt cheerleader. Can't you see that you are doing exactly what you accuse the Red Shirts of doing?

I have no disregard for people who disagree with me. I have already said that concerns over possible intolerance in these new Red Shirt villages are justified, and that has to be watched. But to straight away jump to the conclusions of this being the sign of a Pol Pot System to come without any documented evidence of such wide-spread abuses is hyperbole. It is your right to disagree with the idea of Red Shirt villages. You want to make a case, then please substantiate your statements with factual evidence, such as large amounts of inhabitants of these villages not being able to return to their homes for fear of persecution.

I base my argumentation that so far i do not see any evidence. I am well aware of the fact that in Red rural areas it is not easy for outspoken opponents of the Red life is not easy, and the same counts for Democrat dominated areas in the South, where life for Red Shirts is often not easy, which is an unfortunate aspect of such social conflicts. But i do not see the incidents of administrative injustice, the murders and the streams of refugees that would justify the tone of posts i read here.

Which again brings me to the point of a complete disregard of the choices Thais make for themselves here in their own country evident in many of the posts here. Face it - there are maybe 2000, if not 4000 villages in Thailand that have so far declared themselves Red Shirt villages. That means that there are possibly a 6-figure number, if not more, of Thais who have declared their political views in this way. As long as this choice is not accompanied by Human Rights violations such as persecution of political opponents (and note: the idea of these Red Shirt villages was born out of persecution against Red Shirts - read the HRW report, for example, what happened in the aftermath of last year's crackdown) it is a perfectly legitimate choice of these Thais to declare their villages as Red Shirt villages.

The only undemocratic thing here i can see here are the vitriolic posts of the Red Shirt haters.