Bangkok In For 1-Metre Flooding, Says Expert

[whybother]

If she "Is Now Meeting With A Lot Of Opposition", it would seem to imply that the "some politicians are willing to let people suffer in order to get rid of the government" people are her own. Certainly it is they without a plan. So, what's the game here?

I said from day one when it was cetain Bangkok was going to be hit flooding that it started to become a political issue, with the yellow shirts, BKK govt trying to protect BKK at the expense of the rest of the country, poor people red shirts, and blame the PM for the Mother Natures flood.

Who's blaming the PM for the flood?

It seems that Yingluck is doing exactly the same thing as the Bangkok governor in relation to protecting Bangkok.

[harsh4]

It is great that the government has some independent expert advice from a foreign expert.

Also this can be a very subtle ploy to allow the foreigners to announce the difficult news while the government can be shown in a better light by emphasising their relief and humanitarian work.

Unfortunately the article then starts to sink in credibility because another 'foreign expert' who is anomous makes claims which could only be described as inflammatory.

Who ever this 'foreign expert' is has a good grasp of Thai Culture because of his use of the term "sweet things" or subtly say that the government spokesperson has a "sweet mouth" or pak wan.

Unfortunately the quote "Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra was now meeting with a lot of opposition" could be interpreted many ways because the subject of the sentence was left to the readers own particular bias.

...

Was it 'opposition' to

• her plans for flood relief?
• her plans to save Bangkok?
• her plans then to flood Bangkok?

Or was it that she was meeting with 'opposition' politicians in an effort to have a more unified approach and not to act like a "dysfunctional family"

Keep in mind this 'Dutch expert' was invited here by the government...gives him the latitude to throw in some politically relevant comments to give the analysis some spin ? If he can spell out specific figures and specific advice on how to tackle what he believes is inevitable that would be more helpful ?

[Chris Lawrence]

Who let the water build up in the dams to such an extent that masses were released downstream at the height of the monsoon season? High tides are predicted well in advance and push many miles upstream so a man made confluence seemed almost inevitable, or am I imagining some mischief making?

Hanlon's razor: Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.

That was a great quote ... spot on :jap:

In Australia we suffered from the same commercially based thinking.

From 2003 Australia was in the grip of a prolonged drought affecting the water supplies to the capital cities and much of the arable farmland.

When the rains came in 2009, we were loathed to waste this precious resource and stored as much as we could in our system of dams.

Then, when the flooding rains arrived in early 2011 we had little excess storage capacity and this strongly contributed the flooding of South-East Queensland, particularly Brisbane.

I'm sure that the same thinking was applied to conserving water for the Thai farmers by retaining more water then usual in the dams for use in the next irrigation period with little spare capacity for flood mitigation.

So ... I agree with your Hanlon's razor quote!

And to expand on it ... with Sir Bernard Ingham saying "cock-up before conspiracy" or as he more elegantly put it ...

"Many journalists have fallen for the conspiracy theory of government. I do assure you that they would produce more accurate work if they adhered to the cock-up theory."

Ref http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanlon%27s_razo

What will be done after the flooding is to see who is responsible for any cock-ups?

What has the Governor of Bangkok been doing to lobby for improved flood mitigation programs to protect his city.

How did the flood mitigation experts advise and meteorologists forecasts assist or hinder the operation?

The Prime Minister although only in the job a few months will also need to look at how information was interpreted and then conveyed back out to the public.

Was the response from all Government agencies swift enough?

Apart form the reflecting on how the operation to save Bangkok goes, this was a huge natural disaster. In Australia, the rains that came haven't been seen for many years. I can't remember the level of flooding in the outback that occurred. It was just a natural disaster. Hard to guard against them.

Hope everyone remains safe.

[Estrada]

Let us hope you are right!

But the Dutch have controlled water,especially sea water for hundreds of years,

there is even a County in England (EAST ANGLIA) which was/is 6 feet below sea level,

which is now first class farmland,Towns and Villages,all reclaimed land by the Dutch Engineers,around 200 years ago.

I think you will find that the Norfolk Broads were created by peat digging. The area was not under water 200 years ago. They did however bring into use windmills but these were used to drain some of the marshland for grazing and some of the flooded areas created by peat digging.

They are windpumps not windmills. Windmills are used for grain.

[Estrada]

Who let the water build up in the dams to such an extent that masses were released downstream at the height of the monsoon season? High tides are predicted well in advance and push many miles upstream so a man made confluence seemed almost inevitable, or am I imagining some mischief making?

Hanlon's razor: Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.

That was a great quote ... spot on :jap:

In Australia we suffered from the same commercially based thinking.

From 2003 Australia was in the grip of a prolonged drought affecting the water supplies to the capital cities and much of the arable farmland.

When the rains came in 2009, we were loathed to waste this precious resource and stored as much as we could in our system of dams.

Then, when the flooding rains arrived in early 2011 we had little excess storage capacity and this strongly contributed the flooding of South-East Queensland, particularly Brisbane.

I'm sure that the same thinking was applied to conserving water for the Thai farmers by retaining more water then usual in the dams for use in the next irrigation period with little spare capacity for flood mitigation.

So ... I agree with your Hanlon's razor quote!

And to expand on it ... with Sir Bernard Ingham saying "cock-up before conspiracy" or as he more elegantly put it ...

"Many journalists have fallen for the conspiracy theory of government. I do assure you that they would produce more accurate work if they adhered to the cock-up theory."

Ref http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanlon%27s_razo

What will be done after the flooding is to see who is responsible for any cock-ups?

What has the Governor of Bangkok been doing to lobby for improved flood mitigation programs to protect his city.

How did the flood mitigation experts advise and meteorologists forecasts assist or hinder the operation?

The Prime Minister although only in the job a few months will also need to look at how information was interpreted and then conveyed back out to the public.

Was the response from all Government agencies swift enough?

Apart form the reflecting on how the operation to save Bangkok goes, this was a huge natural disaster. In Australia, the rains that came haven't been seen for many years. I can't remember the level of flooding in the outback that occurred. It was just a natural disaster. Hard to guard against them.

Hope everyone remains safe.

There is already a Master Plan for Flood Defence and Flood Mitigation completed by TEAM Engineers, which I believe is already under implementation, however the scheme is in three phases and is progressing but not scheduled to be completed until 2018.

[techboy]

Who let the water build up in the dams to such an extent that masses were released downstream at the height of the monsoon season? High tides are predicted well in advance and push many miles upstream so a man made confluence seemed almost inevitable, or am I imagining some mischief making?

Hanlon's razor: Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.

:clap2:

More uninformed conjecture. Did I see the word 'stupidity'?

[marioDC]

Dutch, Thai, Eastern, Western makes no difference, it is mother nature will decide herself. The only thing I know is no one knows as I prepare for the worse and hope for the best.

Finally some-one with a rational reply to this disaster that is going on in Thailand. It's a good thing that Holland and other countries are willing to help, because they have the knowledge about these things.

Not so for most of the comments I,ve read on here. Everybody seems to know better and they all have the solution, right ?

Well, nobody is stopping you guys from going to those flooded places and tell the victims (and soon to become victims) what to do, is there ?

It,s nature ! And you just need to sit this one out. Evacuations are the only solution (ie New Orleans, etc) ... You can't stop this from happening.

But as most of you are implying : it's probably the government's fault... :huh:

[rubl]

Finally some-one with a rational reply to this disaster that is going on in Thailand. It's a good thing that Holland and other countries are willing to help, because they have the knowledge about these things.

Not so for most of the comments I,ve read on here. Everybody seems to know better and they all have the solution, right ?

Well, nobody is stopping you guys from going to those flooded places and tell the victims (and soon to become victims) what to do, is there ?

It,s nature ! And you just need to sit this one out. Evacuations are the only solution (ie New Orleans, etc) ... You can't stop this from happening.

But as most of you are implying : it's probably the government's fault... :huh:

The government's fault? Not at all:

"US praises Thailand's response to floods

US Defense Secretary Leon Panetta, on a tour of Asia, "is closely monitoring the situation and applauds the Thai government's quick response to this major natural disaster," spokesman George Little said in a statement."

Mind you Mr. Panetta maybe only compared the situation to the US reaction on Hurricane Katrina and the flooding in New Orleans

[tartempion]

Great, 101 replies so far on the press article re Mr Andri Dewey and it seems I am the only one who watched the Dutch documentary this morning at 05.25, where Mr Dewey had his word, repeat one hour from now on BVN at 17.25.Nothing new really, but posters here seem a bunch of headless chicken running around totally lost.

True one must be able to understand the language of Vondel, which will be difficult for most of the experts here.

Edited October 27, 2011 by tartempion

[metisdead]

Some off topic posts and replies have been removed.

[MAJIC]

Let us hope you are right!

But the Dutch have controlled water,especially sea water for hundreds of years,

there is even a County in England (EAST ANGLIA) which was/is 6 feet below sea level,

which is now first class farmland,Towns and Villages,all reclaimed land by the Dutch Engineers,around 200 years ago.

How little you know. There is no such county in England. East Anglia is a an area of Eastern England and it was the parts of Cambrigeshire and West Norfolk, South Lincolnshire that the Dutch assisted in draining, commonly known as the Fems.

ok East Anglia is an area of several Counties,not one county,good spotting,

My point was the Dutch are the experts in water management,and Thailand should consult the experts,which unfortunately,they are not.

Known as the Fens, by the way!

[MAJIC]

Let us hope you are right!

But the Dutch have controlled water,especially sea water for hundreds of years,

there is even a County in England (EAST ANGLIA) which was/is 6 feet below sea level,

which is now first class farmland,Towns and Villages,all reclaimed land by the Dutch Engineers,around 200 years ago.

The Dutch started this work,, in the mid 16th Century, but that early attempt was not too successful and the work was delayed by Political Warfare (English Civil war) . Thai politicians take note !

And the Canals (Dykes) were dug by hand too.

[rogerdee123]

Why is the one thing that the PM sure of is that she won't move FROC hq from a flooded airport running on backup power? Morale is not the most important issue at the moment, and frankly having incompetent leaders is far more demoralizing than having a functional FROC in a new location.

They don't want to move because the obvious place to go where there is communications infrastructure, helipads, housing, and other kind of support including thousands of healthy young men waiting to take orders etc is a military base. And their fear of giving the military any "face" is bigger than their fear of the impact of this disaster on the people.

[bigbamboo]

Let us hope you are right!

But the Dutch have controlled water,especially sea water for hundreds of years,

there is even a County in England (EAST ANGLIA) which was/is 6 feet below sea level,

which is now first class farmland,Towns and Villages,all reclaimed land by the Dutch Engineers,around 200 years ago.

How little you know. There is no such county in England. East Anglia is a an area of Eastern England and it was the parts of Cambrigeshire and West Norfolk, South Lincolnshire that the Dutch assisted in draining, commonly known as the Fems.

A technical point regarding the Netherlands and the Fenlands is that the problem there was more due to sea water breaching the coastal defences whereas Bangkok's is the water that has been inexplicably allowed to build up from within the country.

[RichardL]

Let us hope you are right!

But the Dutch have controlled water,especially sea water for hundreds of years,

there is even a County in England (EAST ANGLIA) which was/is 6 feet below sea level,

which is now first class farmland,Towns and Villages,all reclaimed land by the Dutch Engineers,around 200 years ago.

The Dutch started this work,, in the mid 16th Century, but that early attempt was not too successful and the work was delayed by Political Warfare (English Civil war) . Thai politicians take note !

And the Canals (Dykes) were dug by hand too.

That's a completely different scenario though. Thailand could build dykes to keep the sea out and reclaim many miles of land if it wanted to, but it would do nothing to prevent flooding. The dykes built in Holland most probably wouldn't withstand the pressure the ones in Thailand have been subjected to either, but because they aren't designed more that, it's not a problem. Push that 16 billion cubic meters of water in Holland's river system, and the Netherlands would become on of Europe's largest lakes.

I can well imagine Thailand will see a lot more flood defences made from concrete in the future though. Mind you, all they will do is push the problem elsewhere. The key is being able to get a higher volume of water out to sea quicker, and that seems to be more about storm drains.

[serenitynow]

If she "Is Now Meeting With A Lot Of Opposition", it would seem to imply that the "some politicians are willing to let people suffer in order to get rid of the government" people are her own. Certainly it is they without a plan. So, what's the game here?

I said from day one when it was cetain Bangkok was going to be hit flooding that it started to become a political issue, with the yellow shirts, BKK govt trying to protect BKK at the expense of the rest of the country, poor people red shirts, and blame the PM for the Mother Natures flood.

Who's blaming the PM for the flood?

It seems that Yingluck is doing exactly the same thing as the Bangkok governor in relation to protecting Bangkok.

I am for one, at least the scale of it and the majority of the deaths attributed to it. I don't blame her for the rainfall though.

[TAWP]

The truth is that a lot of the operational groups are already moved from Don Muang. Some are left so they can claim to not having moved.

[Emptyset]

"A Cabinet member blocked the irrigation's plan to release the water from the dam in September. "I shall assume the sole responsibility," he said. /via@ThanongK"

http://www.thaivisa....ost__p__4797084

Anyone wanting to pursue this should go to @ThanongK Twitter page...and you'll see a series of tweets from him yesterday on this subject...

http://twitter.com/#!/ThanongK

The poster is listed on his Twitter homepage as an editor associated with the ASEAN Newsroom...

ThanongKThanong

Now Plamote Maiklad, Smith Thammasiroj share the view that the flooding disasters occur because of water mismanagement.

ThanongKThanong

Another interesting account was that a politican from Suphan Buri also played a role.

I believe that the big "T" owns around 200,000 rai near Suphanburi with middle eastern partners. Maybe he influenced the famous local politician?

No need for far-fetched conspiracies here. Obviously the Agriculture Min will always move to protect Banharn's beloved Suphan at all costs. I seem to recall a news report a few weeks back where a PT member criticized them for it? Can anyone find it?

[Chris Lawrence]

There is already a Master Plan for Flood Defence and Flood Mitigation completed by TEAM Engineers, which I believe is already under implementation, however the scheme is in three phases and is progressing but not scheduled to be completed until 2018.

Is Suphat Vongvisessomjai Professor, Water and Environment Expert TEAM Consulting Engineering and Management Co.,Ltd. involved with this plan?

'Recent forecasts by the United Nations' Inter-governmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC), which predict a 40 centimetre rise in sea levels by the end of the century will cause flooding for up to 94 million Asians living in coastal areas, may not apply to the Gulf of Thailand, according to Suphat Vongvisessomjai, a former professor in water resources engineering at Bangkok's Asia Institute of Technology.' April 23 2007 quote

He also did a paper on the Flood Mitigation Master Plan in 2007, the Abstract reads:

This paper describes master plans of flood mitigation for Chao Phraya Delta, the rice bowl of

Thailand. The first master plan of flood mitigation for Bangkok after 1983 flood which has

been developed from the initiation of the King to protect Bangkok City from rainwaters in

Rangsit irrigation areas by polder system. The second master plan of flood mitigation for

Chao Phraya Delta after 1995 flood which has been initially developed by AIT , DHI and

ACRES Int.Ltd. for the World Bank, further developed in details by JICA and finally reported

in Thai by the Crown Property Bureau. The proposed master plan of flood mitigation for

Chao Phraya Delta after 2006 flood is the leftover mitigation measures, the diversion, with

the use of AIT river network model. The new diversion canal in the upper Tha Chin river will

help minimize the damages in all areas over the Chao Phraya Delta with less cost of

construction and less impact.

Vongvisessomjai appears critical of some Western comment and concern with a costly approach to flood mitigation. Maybe the calculations don't include the amount of rain and water that has been experienced over the last few months?

When this is all over then a review of process will be conducted.

[klaasje123]

And not forget, the millions of tourists visiting venice every year. So many that tourists have go in in cohorts over there. This is a golden opportunity for bangkok. Think, seiing soi cowboy by boat!!! A real wetshow.

I have heard many times Bangkok used to be referred to as Venice of the East and presumably a lot more traffic relied on the waterways

for transport. How practical would it be to revert to this kind of scenario which would not only make use of a valuable resource

but could also have a multitude of other benefits in terms of reducing traffic congestion? Is it feasible?

[petedk]

There are so many threads that I don't really know where to post this piece of news.

My brother-in-law just came back from Pahonyothin where he witnessed a big fight over the flood barriers. Apparently they were trying to build up a dyke to stop the flow of water into the city but the residents the other side were protesting and trying to pull them down. At one point shots were fired so he decided to leave.

I think things could get seriously out of hand at some point. People get so desperate they will do almost anything to protect themselves.

I guess this sort of news will be censored to prevent panic. My brother-in-law didn't even dare tell his wife as she is so nervous.

[sirchai]

<br />Let us hope you are right!<br /><br />But the Dutch have controlled water,especially sea water for hundreds of years,<br /><br />there is even a County in England (EAST ANGLIA) which was/is 6 feet below sea level,<br />which is now first class farmland,Towns and Villages,all reclaimed land by the Dutch Engineers,around 200 years ago.<br />

<br /><br /><br />

BANGKOK: -- A Dutch expert on flooding, Adri Verwey, said yesterday the worst case scenario for Bangkok was that "extensive areas" of the capital could be submerged under more than one metre of water, if dykes are breached in many areas.

I hope he wasn't sitting in a Dutch Coffee shop when he made his statement......

[whybother]

I am for one, at least the scale of it and the majority of the deaths attributed to it. I don't blame her for the rainfall though.

No. I don't blame her for the floods. I think there is very little she could have done, even in Ayutthaya.

BUT, I do blame her for the lack of management and communication.

[Estrada]

There is already a Master Plan for Flood Defence and Flood Mitigation completed by TEAM Engineers, which I believe is already under implementation, however the scheme is in three phases and is progressing but not scheduled to be completed until 2018.

Is Suphat Vongvisessomjai Professor, Water and Environment Expert TEAM Consulting Engineering and Management Co.,Ltd. involved with this plan?

'Recent forecasts by the United Nations' Inter-governmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC), which predict a 40 centimetre rise in sea levels by the end of the century will cause flooding for up to 94 million Asians living in coastal areas, may not apply to the Gulf of Thailand, according to Suphat Vongvisessomjai, a former professor in water resources engineering at Bangkok's Asia Institute of Technology.' April 23 2007 quote

He also did a paper on the Flood Mitigation Master Plan in 2007, the Abstract reads:

This paper describes master plans of flood mitigation for Chao Phraya Delta, the rice bowl of

Thailand. The first master plan of flood mitigation for Bangkok after 1983 flood which has

been developed from the initiation of the King to protect Bangkok City from rainwaters in

Rangsit irrigation areas by polder system. The second master plan of flood mitigation for

Chao Phraya Delta after 1995 flood which has been initially developed by AIT , DHI and

ACRES Int.Ltd. for the World Bank, further developed in details by JICA and finally reported

in Thai by the Crown Property Bureau. The proposed master plan of flood mitigation for

Chao Phraya Delta after 2006 flood is the leftover mitigation measures, the diversion, with

the use of AIT river network model. The new diversion canal in the upper Tha Chin river will

help minimize the damages in all areas over the Chao Phraya Delta with less cost of

construction and less impact.

Vongvisessomjai appears critical of some Western comment and concern with a costly approach to flood mitigation. Maybe the calculations don't include the amount of rain and water that has been experienced over the last few months?

When this is all over then a review of process will be conducted.

Yes, and Team and JICA (Japanese Agency) were involved, yesterday the Vice President of Toyota Thailand and Team recommended a plan to blow up 5 sections of road in Eastern Bangkok that have been built up in a manner that they are preventing the natural drainage of the flood waters. Therefore Team and the Japanese are very much involved in the ongoing mitigation works. I discussed the need for a plan in 1995 with the then Bangkok Governor Krisada Arunvongse Na Ayuthaya, and we agreed that the 2.5metre flood wall was too low to prevent flooding due to overflow from the Chaophraya and we agreed that a 5.2metre high wall would be needed (based on 1 in 200 year flood. (When I was involved in designing the wells for the Great Man Made River in Libya, which are in the Sahara Desert and hardly ever has rain, the flood level based on 1 in 100 years was 7 metres. The 5.2metre wall for Bangkok was blocked by Politicians as not beneficial to them and Hotel Owners not wishing to lose their views of the river from their ground floor restaurants. I also worked on the Solid Waste Master Plan for Bangkok when Pichet Rathakhun was Governor and again warned him about the certain flood situation should the barriers not be raised and reinforced. I recommended that the Solid Waste Landfill be used to reclaim the land on the entrance to the Chaophraya which the sea has been eroding at the rate of 65metres per year. Since 1995, 1 kilometre of the Chaophraya shoreline on the westernside is now under the sea including a fishing village and Temple. Due to corruption many of the Master Plans which recommend actions by foreign experts that would have allieviated the flooding problems were not actioned as there was no benefit to "Certain Parties".

The answer to flooding and drought situations in Thailand could be to construct a series of long distance pipelines to provide or redistribute water during droughts as well as to drain excess water to the sea instead of flooding communities along the Chaophraya when the reservoirs are too full. Our Great Man Made River Project consists of pumps and a network of pipes up to 4 metres in diameter, a total of 6,000kms and carrying 6.43Mega Cubic Metres per day. 2,500 Thais have worked with us on the project.

[bhakta]

I am in Samrong, Samut Prakarn. I go to the river's edge daily at the time of the highest tides. Here at the end of Sanphawuth Road, the river has at its highest been at least one meter from breaching the cement wall. The high tide does not last too long, and when it peaks, it starts to go lower very quickly. I cannot see Bangkok being too much damaged from river overflows. The water coming in from Rangsit does not seem to move fast and I do not feel it is a big threat to inner Bangkok.

Everyone can understand that for the past thirty years all the flood plains around Bangkok have been developed as housing and industrial estates, and the roads which are now blocking the water from running to the sea were built to enable these developments.

[Chris Lawrence]

There is already a Master Plan for Flood Defence and Flood Mitigation completed by TEAM Engineers, which I believe is already under implementation, however the scheme is in three phases and is progressing but not scheduled to be completed until 2018.

Is Suphat Vongvisessomjai Professor, Water and Environment Expert TEAM Consulting Engineering and Management Co.,Ltd. involved with this plan?

'Recent forecasts by the United Nations' Inter-governmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC), which predict a 40 centimetre rise in sea levels by the end of the century will cause flooding for up to 94 million Asians living in coastal areas, may not apply to the Gulf of Thailand, according to Suphat Vongvisessomjai, a former professor in water resources engineering at Bangkok's Asia Institute of Technology.' April 23 2007 quote

He also did a paper on the Flood Mitigation Master Plan in 2007, the Abstract reads:

This paper describes master plans of flood mitigation for Chao Phraya Delta, the rice bowl of

Thailand. The first master plan of flood mitigation for Bangkok after 1983 flood which has

been developed from the initiation of the King to protect Bangkok City from rainwaters in

Rangsit irrigation areas by polder system. The second master plan of flood mitigation for

Chao Phraya Delta after 1995 flood which has been initially developed by AIT , DHI and

ACRES Int.Ltd. for the World Bank, further developed in details by JICA and finally reported

in Thai by the Crown Property Bureau. The proposed master plan of flood mitigation for

Chao Phraya Delta after 2006 flood is the leftover mitigation measures, the diversion, with

the use of AIT river network model. The new diversion canal in the upper Tha Chin river will

help minimize the damages in all areas over the Chao Phraya Delta with less cost of

construction and less impact.

Vongvisessomjai appears critical of some Western comment and concern with a costly approach to flood mitigation. Maybe the calculations don't include the amount of rain and water that has been experienced over the last few months?

When this is all over then a review of process will be conducted.

Yes, and Team and JICA (Japanese Agency) were involved, yesterday the Vice President of Toyota Thailand and Team recommended a plan to blow up 5 sections of road in Eastern Bangkok that have been built up in a manner that they are preventing the natural drainage of the flood waters. Therefore Team and the Japanese are very much involved in the ongoing mitigation works. I discussed the need for a plan in 1995 with the then Bangkok Governor Krisada Arunvongse Na Ayuthaya, and we agreed that the 2.5metre flood wall was too low to prevent flooding due to overflow from the Chaophraya and we agreed that a 5.2metre high wall would be needed (based on 1 in 200 year flood. (When I was involved in designing the wells for the Great Man Made River in Libya, which are in the Sahara Desert and hardly ever has rain, the flood level based on 1 in 100 years was 7 metres. The 5.2metre wall for Bangkok was blocked by Politicians as not beneficial to them and Hotel Owners not wishing to lose their views of the river from their ground floor restaurants. I also worked on the Solid Waste Master Plan for Bangkok when Pichet Rathakhun was Governor and again warned him about the certain flood situation should the barriers not be raised and reinforced. I recommended that the Solid Waste Landfill be used to reclaim the land on the entrance to the Chaophraya which the sea has been eroding at the rate of 65metres per year. Since 1995, 1 kilometre of the Chaophraya shoreline on the westernside is now under the sea including a fishing village and Temple. Due to corruption many of the Master Plans which recommend actions by foreign experts that would have allieviated the flooding problems were not actioned as there was no benefit to "Certain Parties".

The answer to flooding and drought situations in Thailand could be to construct a series of long distance pipelines to provide or redistribute water during droughts as well as to drain excess water to the sea instead of flooding communities along the Chaophraya when the reservoirs are too full. Our Great Man Made River Project consists of pumps and a network of pipes up to 4 metres in diameter, a total of 6,000kms and carrying 6.43Mega Cubic Metres per day. 2,500 Thais have worked with us on the project.

I would think it be hard to get the right information, from the right people if the wrong decisions were made by the right people and still there.

Sometimes the history gets camouflaged?

[peecee]

Let us hope you are right!

But the Dutch have controlled water,especially sea water for hundreds of years,

there is even a County in England (EAST ANGLIA) which was/is 6 feet below sea level,

which is now first class farmland,Towns and Villages,all reclaimed land by the Dutch Engineers,around 200 years ago.

How little you know. There is no such county in England. East Anglia is a an area of Eastern England and it was the parts of Cambrigeshire and West Norfolk, South Lincolnshire that the Dutch assisted in draining, commonly known as the Fems.

or even Fens!

[soomak]

There is already a Master Plan for Flood Defence and Flood Mitigation completed by TEAM Engineers, which I believe is already under implementation, however the scheme is in three phases and is progressing but not scheduled to be completed until 2018.

Is Suphat Vongvisessomjai Professor, Water and Environment Expert TEAM Consulting Engineering and Management Co.,Ltd. involved with this plan?

'Recent forecasts by the United Nations' Inter-governmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC), which predict a 40 centimetre rise in sea levels by the end of the century will cause flooding for up to 94 million Asians living in coastal areas, may not apply to the Gulf of Thailand, according to Suphat Vongvisessomjai, a former professor in water resources engineering at Bangkok's Asia Institute of Technology.' April 23 2007 quote

He also did a paper on the Flood Mitigation Master Plan in 2007, the Abstract reads:

This paper describes master plans of flood mitigation for Chao Phraya Delta, the rice bowl of

Thailand. The first master plan of flood mitigation for Bangkok after 1983 flood which has

been developed from the initiation of the King to protect Bangkok City from rainwaters in

Rangsit irrigation areas by polder system. The second master plan of flood mitigation for

Chao Phraya Delta after 1995 flood which has been initially developed by AIT , DHI and

ACRES Int.Ltd. for the World Bank, further developed in details by JICA and finally reported

in Thai by the Crown Property Bureau. The proposed master plan of flood mitigation for

Chao Phraya Delta after 2006 flood is the leftover mitigation measures, the diversion, with

the use of AIT river network model. The new diversion canal in the upper Tha Chin river will

help minimize the damages in all areas over the Chao Phraya Delta with less cost of

construction and less impact.

Vongvisessomjai appears critical of some Western comment and concern with a costly approach to flood mitigation. Maybe the calculations don't include the amount of rain and water that has been experienced over the last few months?

When this is all over then a review of process will be conducted.

Yes, and Team and JICA (Japanese Agency) were involved, yesterday the Vice President of Toyota Thailand and Team recommended a plan to blow up 5 sections of road in Eastern Bangkok that have been built up in a manner that they are preventing the natural drainage of the flood waters. Therefore Team and the Japanese are very much involved in the ongoing mitigation works. I discussed the need for a plan in 1995 with the then Bangkok Governor Krisada Arunvongse Na Ayuthaya, and we agreed that the 2.5metre flood wall was too low to prevent flooding due to overflow from the Chaophraya and we agreed that a 5.2metre high wall would be needed (based on 1 in 200 year flood. (When I was involved in designing the wells for the Great Man Made River in Libya, which are in the Sahara Desert and hardly ever has rain, the flood level based on 1 in 100 years was 7 metres. The 5.2metre wall for Bangkok was blocked by Politicians as not beneficial to them and Hotel Owners not wishing to lose their views of the river from their ground floor restaurants. I also worked on the Solid Waste Master Plan for Bangkok when Pichet Rathakhun was Governor and again warned him about the certain flood situation should the barriers not be raised and reinforced. I recommended that the Solid Waste Landfill be used to reclaim the land on the entrance to the Chaophraya which the sea has been eroding at the rate of 65metres per year. Since 1995, 1 kilometre of the Chaophraya shoreline on the westernside is now under the sea including a fishing village and Temple. Due to corruption many of the Master Plans which recommend actions by foreign experts that would have allieviated the flooding problems were not actioned as there was no benefit to "Certain Parties".

The answer to flooding and drought situations in Thailand could be to construct a series of long distance pipelines to provide or redistribute water during droughts as well as to drain excess water to the sea instead of flooding communities along the Chaophraya when the reservoirs are too full. Our Great Man Made River Project consists of pumps and a network of pipes up to 4 metres in diameter, a total of 6,000kms and carrying 6.43Mega Cubic Metres per day. 2,500 Thais have worked with us on the project.

It's good to hear from someone who knows what he is talking about for a change.

I don't doubt that there are viable options for solving this, and that some plans were already completed and presented to the decision makers.

The "natural disaster" excuse does not work here, as water management is possible, although it requires long term planning and lots of money.

[JackoJason]

It's good to hear from someone who knows what he is talking about for a change.

I don't doubt that there are viable options for solving this, and that some plans were already completed and presented to the decision makers.

The "natural disaster" excuse does not work here, as water management is possible, although it requires long term planning and lots of money.

I just came across an article using wells to drain away the water. Seems to make sense. Why didn't anyone think of this before?

http://bklim.newsvin...65201#c59465201

Edited October 30, 2011 by JackoJason