Bangkok: Three Million Tonnes Of Garbage, Dirty Water To Deal With

[Gers1873]

Just how much of this rubbish was already blocking all the drains and canals around the country pre floods. This incident will go but thais will still dump all the garbage in the rivers and streams and beside the roads and highways. The government should take this oppertunity to educate the people about dumping rubbish and the effects it has on the enviroment. A huge lesson has been dealt here and I hope they take the wakeup call.

A noble idea but doomed to failure. Even in Naklua where there hasnt beem too much rain the market was recently flooded. The root cause, apart from the obvious, was that all the drains were blocked with discarded waste materials from the market --- paper, wood and cardboard boxes.

Education may work -- then again so may praying to some omnipotent being to make the water go away.

[ableguy]

A city the size of BKK must have several huge garbage dumps/landfills.

Does anybody know where they are and if they are flooded???

Sukhumvit Soi 23 to Nana

[johnefallis]

Yes it is going to take a lot of hard work and posative attitude to clear up all the mess, I just hope for the people's sake there is no western attitude to add to the disaster.

Good point!

You old hens understand that? Quit cryin'!

[theanimaster]

I went back to Bangkok (staying in Pattaya temporarily... of all places...) to check on my house. It was under a meter of water on the 4th of November outside the house:

We had moved everything up (well, ALMOST everything... we're going to lose a couple bookcases, tables and wooden benches and beds that couldn't be moved) a week before we got hit. The only other thing that was a bit of a consolation was that the water didn't reek. I'm keeping my fingers crossed we don't get ~that~ kind of water... it'll just make things so much worse.

[OzMick]

And costs $22000 USD per year to raise - an estimated $250000 per child from start to finish

While I won't dispute your figures (though I doubt them!), does this mean that they leave home or pass away before age 12?

[johnefallis]

So whats new about three tons of garbage laying around Thai roads & streets?

Try 30,000 tons, and (to answer your question), .....nothing new about it, except it's now waterlogged garbage.

Maybe some of the water-borne radioactivity from Fukushima will kill some of the toxic organisms that slowly flush down in to the bay, from the 10,000 acre cesspool known as Bkk.

Even in the best of time, there's asbestos dust (from roof shingles and auto brakes), dog poop from a million dogs, and a zillion other types of garbage seep out from Bkk.

Q. What's the one best thing a person can do for the environment?

A. Not have children. Each added child adds untold tons of garbage to this finite planet.

Maybe you should move before your tears add to the flooding?

[johnefallis]

Many micro organisms will survive brief boiling, you should boil for 5 minutes. If you use the type of kettle with auto shut off, leave the top open, then it will keep boiling. Boiling will not remove inorganic pollutants. For pure water collect the output from your aircon and melt the ice buildup in your fridge.

Be very careful if you start to drink ultra pure water such as distilled or dionised it does not contain any bacteria, which you need to digest, and technically you can 'drown' with it. There are many documented cases of people dying from drinking pure water for too long.

Reeeeally? Post a link to just ONE please...

[johnefallis]

I went back to Bangkok (staying in Pattaya temporarily... of all places...) to check on my house. It was under a meter of water on the 4th of November outside the house:

We had moved everything up (well, ALMOST everything... we're going to lose a couple bookcases, tables and wooden benches and beds that couldn't be moved) a week before we got hit. The only other thing that was a bit of a consolation was that the water didn't reek. I'm keeping my fingers crossed we don't get ~that~ kind of water... it'll just make things so much worse.

Best of luck to you. Thanks for the photo.

[johnefallis]

And costs $22000 USD per year to raise - an estimated $250000 per child from start to finish

While I won't dispute your figures (though I doubt them!), does this mean that they leave home or pass away before age 12?

Hahahaha, gotta love Thaivisa member "facts"....

[johnefallis]

A city the size of BKK must have several huge garbage dumps/landfills.

Does anybody know where they are and if they are flooded???

Sukhumvit Soi 23 to Nana

;-)

[OzMick]

Many micro organisms will survive brief boiling, you should boil for 5 minutes. If you use the type of kettle with auto shut off, leave the top open, then it will keep boiling. Boiling will not remove inorganic pollutants. For pure water collect the output from your aircon and melt the ice buildup in your fridge.

Be very careful if you start to drink ultra pure water such as distilled or dionised it does not contain any bacteria, which you need to digest, and technically you can 'drown' with it. There are many documented cases of people dying from drinking pure water for too long.

Reeeeally? Post a link to just ONE please...

Umm, the bacteria bit is unbelievable, bit pure water will reduce the electrolytes in your body, as salts move through the semi-permeable tissue membranes to equalise salinity. Not a good idea, buy a problem easily overcome by taking additional electrolytes - little packets sold almost everywhere at about B5.

[ericjt]

Yes it is going to take a lot of hard work and posative attitude to clear up all the mess, I just hope for the people's sake there is no western attitude to add to the disaster.

Care to remind us what is western attitude?

Usually us, westerner, we use to plan ahead, we also to prepare contingency plans (as it is obvious we are only humans, so prone to errors and forgetting stuffs when planning).

We also usually do not hide behind fake statements (that Iwil not call total BS, because I would like to keep it polite).

Most of important, when we are humbled by a natural castastrophe, we do accept that fact and we do ask/beg for foreign expertises (recent examples would be New Orleans for USA, and the cyclone that crossed european France in 2000, that for 2 of the most 'arrogant' countries of the world)

I would tend to believe some western attitudes would have reduce the scope of the actual flood (that is nowhere a natural castastrophe by itslef, but a human failure if not even a human deed); and would certainly help in mitigating it in the present and near future.

Even us french would be glad and thankfull if such flood was hitting us (let say such phenomena might happend in the French RIviera , in the city of Nice specifically) and the US Navy was proposing a aircraft carrier for help.

Hey Sting --

Gotta disagree about the US and contingency planning.

New Orleans and Katrina was a disaster, govt response was ineffective, lots of spin in the reporting, and New Orleans still hasn't recovered. Hope France did better in 2000. Katrina was no surprise, either. Hurricanes have been hitting New Orleans forever.

And about turning down help from the US Navy? Does anyone know anything more about why?

[pjhjr]

It's what lying around in hot,stagnated conditions that's the problem as the water becomes putrid and contaminated with all kinds of water/airbourne pathogens that will gladly attach themselves to humans..Human excrement,along with yes dead animal/rats won't exactly make these long term areas of flooding a very nice place to be in!!

Downtown in the province where I live is a good food court, outside a shopping mall. When I first came to Thailad, the huge rats outside in back were frightening. Now I'm wondering: what happens to all these rats when it floods? Do they all drown? Do they have some kind of animal sixth sense that tells them to flee before the water arrives ("rats deserting a sinking ship")? If they know to escape, perhaps people should be advised to observe local rat behavior, rather than listening to confused, contradictory and misleading government evacuation annoncements. "Ignore Plodprasop; watch the rats."

What about the soi dogs? Do they drown? Starve, for lack of food? Tread water 24 hours a day? After the tsunami, there was a huge reduction in the number of stray dogs here (unfortunately, it's getting bad again, breeding exponentially in spite of the dauntless efforts of the local animal welfare society).

There aren't any noticeable rats because they already left weeks ago...

[khaowong1]

"The department surveyed groundwater in 18 spots and found that 6 per cent was poor, 11 per cent was fair and 6 per cent was of good quality".

I'm no math whiz but shouldn't these numbers add up to 100 per cent?

This is Thailand and that's close enough. :-)

[partington]

Many micro organisms will survive brief boiling, you should boil for 5 minutes. If you use the type of kettle with auto shut off, leave the top open, then it will keep boiling. Boiling will not remove inorganic pollutants. For pure water collect the output from your aircon and melt the ice buildup in your fridge.

Be very careful if you start to drink ultra pure water such as distilled or dionised it does not contain any bacteria, which you need to digest, and technically you can 'drown' with it. There are many documented cases of people dying from drinking pure water for too long.

Scandalously, nonsensically, ignorantly, irresponsibly posted tripe!

You should be ashamed at trying to create more worries during an already trying time by raising non-issues. Even ignorance is not an excuse, you should have had the responsibility to check your "facts".

In short:

1. Bacteria are alive and reproduce inside your gut. You do not need to replenish them and if you did food would be fine.

2. Minerals come predominantly from food NOT water

3. There are no reported cases of people dying from drinking pure water for too long because it has never happened,

4. Technically you cannot "drown" from drinking pure water because drowning means your lungs become full of fluid. If you drank water all day until your stomach exploded you might manage it but this would be a result of gigantic volume and would happen with water of any source and type.

Common sense anyway tells you it's not true, or a second on Google. (eg http://www.durastill.com/myths.html)

So just ignore crap like this.

[Friendlyisle]

Many micro organisms will survive brief boiling, you should boil for 5 minutes. If you use the type of kettle with auto shut off, leave the top open, then it will keep boiling. Boiling will not remove inorganic pollutants. For pure water collect the output from your aircon and melt the ice buildup in your fridge.

Be very careful if you start to drink ultra pure water such as distilled or dionised it does not contain any bacteria, which you need to digest, and technically you can 'drown' with it. There are many documented cases of people dying from drinking pure water for too long.

As a retired (drinking) water plant operator in the U.S., I am appalled by the misinformation being given in regards to what constitutes "safe" drinking water. When you see water quality figures given only in terms of dissolved oxygen content or people suggesting drinking the effluent from air conditioners (!) or dire warnings against drinking distilled water, you can be sure these people are NOT the ones to listen to! Millions of people in Thailand are currently in very great danger from water-borne diseases! I would suggest the government greatly increase the distribution of bottled water supplies and that the people will boil water from all other sources AT LEAST five minutes. The very young and very old are particularly at risk. Coliform (fecal) bacteria will be present in virtually EVERY water source (except bottled water) for the forseeable future - get used to boiling your water! I pray for all in Thailand!

[robsamui]

Just how much of this rubbish was already blocking all the drains and canals around the country pre floods. This incident will go but thais will still dump all the garbage in the rivers and streams and beside the roads and highways. The government should take this oppertunity to educate the people about dumping rubbish and the effects it has on the enviroment. A huge lesson has been dealt here and I hope they take the wakeup call.

Yes - couldn't agree more.

As you say, pre-floods all the millions of tons of garbage was hidden over everybody's back walls and up side streets - what the floods have done is to wash it all out into view!

At least it might get cleared away now . . . maybe . . .

R

[Spalpeen]

Wonder how many drowned rats....yuk!!

Rats are excellent swimmers. They'll be loving this !

[bonobo]

Many micro organisms will survive brief boiling, you should boil for 5 minutes. If you use the type of kettle with auto shut off, leave the top open, then it will keep boiling. Boiling will not remove inorganic pollutants. For pure water collect the output from your aircon and melt the ice buildup in your fridge.

Be very careful if you start to drink ultra pure water such as distilled or dionised it does not contain any bacteria, which you need to digest, and technically you can 'drown' with it. There are many documented cases of people dying from drinking pure water for too long.

Not quite.

Water intoxication is a very rare condition which occurs with healthy individuals usually after activities such as water drinking contests. When water does not have electrolytes and/or too much is ingested, it can cause the salt in your cells to migrate outwards which can then cause cell swelling. This can lead to death on very rare occasions. This has nothing to do with bacteria, nor does it have anything to do with long term drinking of purified water.

You are far safer drinking pure water in normal amounts that in drinking contaminated water which can result from conditions such as these floods. Eat normally and drink purified water, and that is your best course of action.

[rockdoc]

Many micro organisms will survive brief boiling, you should boil for 5 minutes. If you use the type of kettle with auto shut off, leave the top open, then it will keep boiling. Boiling will not remove inorganic pollutants. For pure water collect the output from your aircon and melt the ice buildup in your fridge.

Be very careful if you start to drink ultra pure water such as distilled or dionised it does not contain any bacteria, which you need to digest, and technically you can 'drown' with it. There are many documented cases of people dying from drinking pure water for too long.

As a retired (drinking) water plant operator in the U.S., I am appalled by the misinformation being given in regards to what constitutes "safe" drinking water. When you see water quality figures given only in terms of dissolved oxygen content or people suggesting drinking the effluent from air conditioners (!) or dire warnings against drinking distilled water, you can be sure these people are NOT the ones to listen to! Millions of people in Thailand are currently in very great danger from water-borne diseases! I would suggest the government greatly increase the distribution of bottled water supplies and that the people will boil water from all other sources AT LEAST five minutes. The very young and very old are particularly at risk. Coliform (fecal) bacteria will be present in virtually EVERY water source (except bottled water) for the forseeable future - get used to boiling your water! I pray for all in Thailand!

Finally - some common sense advice; well said. As someone else posted here, DGS1244's comments were nonsensical and irresponsible in the extreme

[GentlemanJim]

Many micro organisms will survive brief boiling, you should boil for 5 minutes. If you use the type of kettle with auto shut off, leave the top open, then it will keep boiling. Boiling will not remove inorganic pollutants. For pure water collect the output from your aircon and melt the ice buildup in your fridge.

Be very careful if you start to drink ultra pure water such as distilled or dionised it does not contain any bacteria, which you need to digest, and technically you can 'drown' with it. There are many documented cases of people dying from drinking pure water for too long.

Scandalously, nonsensically, ignorantly, irresponsibly posted tripe!

You should be ashamed at trying to create more worries during an already trying time by raising non-issues. Even ignorance is not an excuse, you should have had the responsibility to check your "facts".

In short:

1. Bacteria are alive and reproduce inside your gut. You do not need to replenish them and if you did food would be fine.

2. Minerals come predominantly from food NOT water

3. There are no reported cases of people dying from drinking pure water for too long because it has never happened,

4. Technically you cannot "drown" from drinking pure water because drowning means your lungs become full of fluid. If you drank water all day until your stomach exploded you might manage it but this would be a result of gigantic volume and would happen with water of any source and type.

Common sense anyway tells you it's not true, or a second on Google. (eg http://www.durastill.com/myths.html)

So just ignore crap like this.

When you drown your lungs do not fill with fluid of any type !!! After you die, if you remain in water then there will be slow seepage into the lungs. Bonobo is correct abpve concerning the lack of electrolytes in the body.

[TackyToo]

It's what lying around in hot,stagnated conditions that's the problem as the water becomes putrid and contaminated with all kinds of water/airbourne pathogens that will gladly attach themselves to humans..Human excrement,along with yes dead animal/rats won't exactly make these long term areas of flooding a very nice place to be in!!

They have been warned for many years that this disaster could and most probably would happen!

Nothing was done to prevent it.

They permanently receive warnings about two facts: the city is constantly sinking and sea levels rise!

Nothing is done to prepare for it.

Scientists and engineers forecast for years that the city will experience situations like this in ten to fifteen years on a regular basis, even without extensive monsoon rain.

Nobody is listening!

Besides battery acid from submerged cars and oil leaks, whatscares me most is this:

How many of the thousands of "sweat shops" in and around Bangkok work with legal and illegal acids, chemicals and substances which are not kept under safety conditions, even in times without floods?

How many human and veterinary clinics are located in the flooded area? Does anyone think they put their waste (used bandages, infected human/animal tissue, syringes etc.) in a cool dry place before they left the flood?

How many "illegal" dump yards surround the city with tons of contaminated waste? Remember the 2.000 foetuses?

You don't need to be a prophet to predict that the summary of all the above mentioned needs more than a miracle not to end up in epidemic diseases!

[starguard69]

Yes it is going to take a lot of hard work and posative attitude to clear up all the mess, I just hope for the people's sake there is no western attitude to add to the disaster.

Care to remind us what is western attitude?

Usually us, westerner, we use to plan ahead, we also to prepare contingency plans (as it is obvious we are only humans, so prone to errors and forgetting stuffs when planning).

We also usually do not hide behind fake statements (that Iwil not call total BS, because I would like to keep it polite).

Most of important, when we are humbled by a natural castastrophe, we do accept that fact and we do ask/beg for foreign expertises (recent examples would be New Orleans for USA, and the cyclone that crossed european France in 2000, that for 2 of the most 'arrogant' countries of the world)

I would tend to believe some western attitudes would have reduce the scope of the actual flood (that is nowhere a natural castastrophe by itslef, but a human failure if not even a human deed); and would certainly help in mitigating it in the present and near future.

Even us french would be glad and thankfull if such flood was hitting us (let say such phenomena might happend in the French RIviera , in the city of Nice specifically) and the US Navy was proposing a aircraft carrier for help.

+1

[rotorbreeze]

Many micro organisms will survive brief boiling, you should boil for 5 minutes. If you use the type of kettle with auto shut off, leave the top open, then it will keep boiling. Boiling will not remove inorganic pollutants. For pure water collect the output from your aircon and melt the ice buildup in your fridge.

Collect water from your air conditioner, that is what I posted a while back, seems some people read what I say..ok here is another tip for purifying water ya may get from one of the vending water dispensers..

For those chemist get your pen and paper ready... here it is NaClo2, the name is Sodium ChloriTE, not sodium chloride (table salt) in a small plastic teaspoon, no metal put 6 drops of NaClo2 aprox 22.4% to 30 drops of lime or lemon juice...when let stand be careful to breath the Chlorine gas produced, important to let this process brew for 3 minutes..a yellow colour will appear after the solution is combined. FYI there is no chlorine in the liquid, just the gas produced the liquid now is called Chlorine dioxide, now you must use this product shelf life is limited to 1 hr, get the water you stored from the air condition that is now boiled and cool, add this Chlorine dioxide to it and drink it..ya can add some apple juice by NO VITAMIN C added a no no. Now you have just taken some 1000 times stronger than any "Aerobic Oxygen liquid" purchased at any health store, for only pennies!

I trust someone will forward this information to the Health minister soon: It is more effective as a disinfectant than chlorine in most circumstances against water borne pathogenic microbes such as viruses,[18] bacteria and protozoa – including the cysts of Giardia and the oocysts of Cryptosporidium.[10]:4-20–4-21

The use of chlorine dioxide in water treatment leads to the formation of the by-product chlorite which is currently limited to a maximum of 1 ppm in drinking water in the USA.[10]:4-33 This EPA standard limits the use of chlorine dioxide in the USA to relatively high quality water or water which is to be treated with iron based coagulants (Iron can reduce chlorite to chloride).[citation needed]

It can also be used for air disinfection,[19] and was the principal agent used in the decontamination of buildings in the United States after the 2001 anthrax attacks.[20] After the disaster of Hurricane Katrina in New Orleans, Louisiana and the surrounding Gulf Coast, chlorine dioxide has been used to eradicate dangerous mold from houses inundated by the flood-water.[21]

Good health to you...

[partington]

Many micro organisms will survive brief boiling, you should boil for 5 minutes. If you use the type of kettle with auto shut off, leave the top open, then it will keep boiling. Boiling will not remove inorganic pollutants. For pure water collect the output from your aircon and melt the ice buildup in your fridge.

Be very careful if you start to drink ultra pure water such as distilled or dionised it does not contain any bacteria, which you need to digest, and technically you can 'drown' with it. There are many documented cases of people dying from drinking pure water for too long.

Scandalously, nonsensically, ignorantly, irresponsibly posted tripe!

You should be ashamed at trying to create more worries during an already trying time by raising non-issues. Even ignorance is not an excuse, you should have had the responsibility to check your "facts".

In short:

1. Bacteria are alive and reproduce inside your gut. You do not need to replenish them and if you did food would be fine.

2. Minerals come predominantly from food NOT water

3. There are no reported cases of people dying from drinking pure water for too long because it has never happened,

4. Technically you cannot "drown" from drinking pure water because drowning means your lungs become full of fluid. If you drank water all day until your stomach exploded you might manage it but this would be a result of gigantic volume and would happen with water of any source and type.

Common sense anyway tells you it's not true, or a second on Google. (eg http://www.durastill.com/myths.html)

So just ignore crap like this.

When you drown your lungs do not fill with fluid of any type !!! After you die, if you remain in water then there will be slow seepage into the lungs. Bonobo is correct abpve concerning the lack of electrolytes in the body.

This is not generally the case, although in a minority of drowning victims (according to the Wiki drowning article, only 15% of cases) this can be true, as you so rightly say:

If water enters the airways of a conscious victim, the victim will try to cough up the water or swallow it, thus inhaling more water involuntarily. Upon water entering the airways, both conscious and unconscious victims experience laryngospasm, that is the larynx or the vocal cords in the throat constrict and seal the air tube. This prevents water from entering the lungs. Because of this laryngospasm, water enters the stomach in the initial phase of drowning and very little water enters the lungs. Unfortunately, this can interfere with air entering the lungs, too. In most victims, the laryngospasm relaxes some time after unconsciousness and water can enter the lungs causing a "wet drowning". However, about 10-15% of victims maintain this seal until cardiac arrest. This is called "dry drowning", as no water enters the lungs. In forensic pathology, water in the lungs indicates that the victim was still alive at the point of submersion. Absence of water in the lungs may be either a dry drowning or indicates a death before submersion.

But I accept the useful correction!

Edited November 7, 2011 by partington

[merlen10002]

Yes it is going to take a lot of hard work and posative attitude to clear up all the mess, I just hope for the people's sake there is no western attitude to add to the disaster.

Care to remind us what is western attitude?

Usually us, westerner, we use to plan ahead, we also to prepare contingency plans (as it is obvious we are only humans, so prone to errors and forgetting stuffs when planning).

We also usually do not hide behind fake statements (that Iwil not call total BS, because I would like to keep it polite).

Most of important, when we are humbled by a natural castastrophe, we do accept that fact and we do ask/beg for foreign expertises (recent examples would be New Orleans for USA, and the cyclone that crossed european France in 2000, that for 2 of the most 'arrogant' countries of the world)

I would tend to believe some western attitudes would have reduce the scope of the actual flood (that is nowhere a natural castastrophe by itslef, but a human failure if not even a human deed); and would certainly help in mitigating it in the present and near future.

Even us french would be glad and thankfull if such flood was hitting us (let say such phenomena might happend in the French RIviera , in the city of Nice specifically) and the US Navy was proposing a aircraft carrier for help.

You maybe interested in this,, saw an interview on a Thai TV channel very late last night with an Netherlands embassy offical, he said the Netherland and Thailands Water management engineers have been consulting with each other for some years now, he also said no one or no government could have stopped this huge flood, he also said all countries learn from disasters like this flood, and that the Thai could have not done a lot more to lessen the affect of this huge flood, as for the amount of garbage any large city would have the same problem, if some of the posters on TV want to experance really dirty cities there are many that would make Bangkok look like a pristine paradise.

I experanced a flood in Australia and the worst thing was the stench, I dont thing Australia is a dirty place, but all floods leave garbage, rats, cockroachs and the like after the flood is gone.

Reading some of the post on TV I don't understand why some people live in Thailand, If I had the same outlook on Thailand I would be on the first plane out, just think about going through every day with all that hate and loathing, why do they do it to themself,???

[softgeorge]

Can someone help me out please I was looking for the topic concerning 3 Million Tons of garbage, and appear to have taken a wrong turn and got stuck in this debate about the symptoms of drowning. I have taken a wrong turn somewhere.

[pjhjr]

Some entertaining posts above- back to the subject- the first thing I thought about was all of the garbage, chemicals, sewage and who knows what other dangerous festering stuff floating around freely for a few months in one gigantic petri dish called Bangkok & suburbs.

Seeing people and kids swimming around in it and slopping through it like it's your backyard pool is unbelievable to me, I wouldn't let a single drop of that toxic sludge touch me.

The thing that's really bad, especially for those of us who have kids and a flooded yard, is after the water is gone.... all of that sludge will be a nice neat film of who knows what breeding all kinds of toxic molds, insects and bacteria just waiting to make it's way onto our kids hands and into their noses and mouths. I wish I could dump a foot of fill dirt in my yard if I knew it came from an area that wasn't flooded itself.

[Payboy]

Can someone help me out please I was looking for the topic concerning 3 Million Tons of garbage, and appear to have taken a wrong turn and got stuck in this debate about the symptoms of drowning. I have taken a wrong turn somewhere.

You did say you were looking for garbage.

Edited November 7, 2011 by Payboy

[Morgo]

Yes it is going to take a lot of hard work and posative attitude to clear up all the mess, I just hope for the people's sake there is no western attitude to add to the disaster.

Errr.. Do you put it in the red bin or the green bin?