Married Men

[manarak]

back in the 80s after I split with the love of my life I tried dating/relationship columns in local newpapers around the SF area in California...I got so depressed with what I saw that I elected to stay at home and masturbate; too much emotional fragility to deal with and masturbating and thinking about my lost love was more satisfying anyway...until there was the mexican/hawaiiian escort girl at $200 a pop but I don't want to ever think about that...I actually thought that she liked me...

and this fits into this topic because... ?

[tutsiwarrior]

back in the 80s after I split with the love of my life I tried dating/relationship columns in local newpapers around the SF area in California...I got so depressed with what I saw that I elected to stay at home and masturbate; too much emotional fragility to deal with and masturbating and thinking about my lost love was more satisfying anyway...until there was the mexican/hawaiiian escort girl at $200 a pop but I don't want to ever think about that...I actually thought that she liked me...

and this fits into this topic because... ?

'cause someone said sumpin' earlier about not gettin' out enough and staying on the internet and not meetin' real girls, but also has to do with dumb POS that have no imagination and forget about the thaivisa forum entertainment value...

don't be pedantic, everyone has a story to tell...tell us yours...the thread topic is ripe fer it...

Edited January 27, 2012 by tutsiwarrior

[F1fanatic]

I was offended as I could only assume he thought I was 'desperate'...

hmmmm.

That's a "I thought he thought I was thinking" explanation...

But I try to delve deeper into it - If you allow me, because I'm still puzzled.

I'm a rather non-emotional person, so there is no chance of offending me in any way in such a situation, and I'd like to find out about what mechanism precisely makes a woman offended in such a situation.

The feeling of being offended came from your perception that he was under the impression that offering sex to you was doing you a favor? (because he was assuming you are desperate?)

Or is there also an element of a feeling of not wanting to be his toy for his pleasure, i.e. the urge of not feeling inferior to him by doing his will?

Or is there a chance that he was desperate, and the thought of being offered by a desperate man is insulting, because it implies you are an option of last resort?

Another thought is what would have been your reaction if the proposal came just in a moment where you were feeling in need of sex?

We all have those moments where in any situation and for no reason we suddenly want sex - would your reaction be different in such a moment?

SBK - it was Manarak, not Marston who came out with this funny post.

However, I will do my best to answer as perhaps (just perhaps...) he is genuinely interested.

The feeling of being offended came from your perception that he was under the impression that offering sex to you was doing you a favor? (because he was assuming you are desperate?) - I was offended 'cos for some obscure reason he thought I was 'up for it' even though I'd done nothing to make him think this. Rather, I'd tried my best to show him a little of Phuket. Additionally, as I am a lone Western female and no longer young and attractive, admittedly I jumped to the conclusion he thought I was 'desperate'. But I never expected a Westerner on 'holiday' here to behave that way to a Western woman living here.

[manarak]

However, I will do my best to answer as perhaps (just perhaps...) he is genuinely interested.

The feeling of being offended came from your perception that he was under the impression that offering sex to you was doing you a favor? (because he was assuming you are desperate?) - I was offended 'cos for some obscure reason he thought I was 'up for it' even though I'd done nothing to make him think this. Rather, I'd tried my best to show him a little of Phuket. Additionally, as I am a lone Western female and no longer young and attractive, admittedly I jumped to the conclusion he thought I was 'desperate'. But I never expected a Westerner on 'holiday' here to behave that way to a Western woman living here.

Yes, I am genuinely interested in trying to understand.

As I said, I am an unemotional person, and I want really to understand the link between being offered sex and becoming offended from it.

And before you all think bad about me, no, I don't make such proposals to women, LOL.

I just want to try to analyze the situation, because for me it is very disconcerting.

If such proposal was made by a woman to a man, Maybe some moralists would then have a low opinion of the woman, but I'm pretty sure most would not feel offended - maybe they could be shocked (like gasping), surprised, flattered or whatever, but not offended.

So there seems to be a gender issue in how/why men and women handle the situation differently.

Apparently, F1fanatic, you got offended by the fact he might have thought you would be open for a proposal to have sex.

I don't know if you are in an exclusive relationship, F1fanatic, but since you didn't mention anything, I assumed so far that you aren't, so in theory you would be "free" (please correct if I am mistaken).

If we look at the proposal without considering any moral aspects, the man just offered an activity that both partners should have pleasure in.

There is nothing negative in this, so the negative reaction must come from psychology or personal values or morals.

From your statement, we can infer that you consider it to be a very negative thing if men become sexually interested in you to the point of asking you for sex.

Meaning... you don't want to be sexually attractive.

F1fanatic, can please you answer the following questions (assuming you aren't in an exclusive relationship at the moment)

- do you consider yourself a moralistic person (for example, are you against abortion or do you have other similarly strong opinions that you believe should better be imposed on other for their own Good or for the higher Good?)

- is sex a taboo subject for you (you never talk explicitly about it with your friends, forums don't count)

- do you feel that sex should only happen while in a relationship

- do you feel that a period of courting is necessary before having sex

- do you feel that "no strings attached" sex with a stranger is wrong

- do you feel that having several sex partners is wrong

...

I'd be interested to see the results of such a poll on the forum, given separately to men and women. Maybe this is an idea.

[Wallaby]

I am also intrigued as to why F1fanatic thought the guy assumed she was up for it.

He asked, he didn't assume. If he thought you were up for it he wouldn't have bothered asking, he would have just said 'ok let's do it'. What is wrong with asking?

He asked, you obviously declined, where is the issue?

I guess some people just get offended easily, which does seem odd especially in Thailand since sex is pretty much in your face in a lot of places.

Of course I would still have the same view if you were an 18 year old Amish girl. Why take offence at a question.

[sbk]

It is possible to ask a woman out and treat her like a human being with interests and concerns instead of a piece of ass. Just as an FYI

[Wallaby]

It is possible to ask a woman out and treat her like a human being with interests and concerns instead of a piece of ass. Just as an FYI

Is it possible for a man to ask a woman for a shag without her thinking the world has caved in? What's the big deal.

Sometimes men don't want to know about interests and concerns, they just want a shag so the best way to do it is to ask. If the answer is no then just move on.

[sbk]

On second thought, never mind. Post deleted, Its just that old saying all over again.

[MsClueless]

KRS

Thank you

Marsten

If u read my post you will see I walked away from that first guy

He was the one extremely rude and vulgar

Then I'm different groups there were two more. Not as vulgar as first guy. But married and suggesting to take me to bed

For those who say I should quit, why???!

I did not do anything wrong. It's bad already that I have to be embarrass for someone else bad behavior. Why do I have to quit my job and be disadvantage when someone else did bad to me?

I don't make official complain because none of these guys work in my office. Reason is more offensive? If we work same office then they know me sometime. But here they meet me few minutes only

Somebody ask why women feel it's offensive? You know we don't live in cage age anymore?

Social manners is different now

I have said before maybe in the bar it's acceptable for some. But how many of u men think u should walk to any woman at a shop and say lets go to your bed? Or in a school? Or restaurant? Even in bars u still have to notice if any sign of interest from other party before u make suggestion. Am I right?

Anyway. I cannot have answer. But it's interesting to hear how many men here think it's normal. But majority agree it is rude and not aproptiate.

Fantastic - thankyou for sharing your story

Edited January 29, 2012 by MsClueless

[MiG16]

It is possible to ask a woman out and treat her like a human being with interests and concerns instead of a piece of ass. Just as an FYI

Is it possible for a man to ask a woman for a shag without her thinking the world has caved in? What's the big deal.

Sometimes men don't want to know about interests and concerns, they just want a shag so the best way to do it is to ask. If the answer is no then just move on.

are we back in the cave age?

are you telling me no social etiqutte need to be observed at all?

yes sure women (or men) can say no

but there are appropriateness whether you should even ask

well I think so anyway. after all we are evolved creatures and it is part of what should distinguish humans from the rest of the species (I really hope so!)

[manarak]

^ while I agree with you MiG16, I also think that there are certainly better examples of the progress of civilization than social etiquette loaded with frustration over repressed sexual needs.

In the animal world, very many species have sex preceded by rituals which signal a male's or female's readiness. It seems humans lost this ability.

I wonder how a man can sense the "right" moment to signal his interest?

What are the telltale signs that a woman may be "up to it"?

[MiG16]

Every woman and every situation maybe different

But if I had to give a general guide as to the how a woman's mind works?

Well I'd say - saying hello and introducing yourselves to each other at a work setting is not a prelude to 'let's go to bed' nor 'my place or yours'

But it would appear some men on here are claiming they adopt this approach and think it's perfectly normal.

[LadyHeather]

I wonder how a man can sense the "right" moment to signal his interest?

What are the telltale signs that a woman may be "up to it"?

Well I can tell you when she isn't.

It is the moment a man like Wallaby walks up to her and asks her if she wants a shag.

Edited February 1, 2012 by LadyHeather

[MiG16]

And now I am curious

How many of you have actually done that?

Walk up to a random stranger - not in a brothel or a bar - and propose the question?

I'm not asking whether you have wanted to, but have you done so? If yes how often, what was the situation and what was the result?

[manarak]

And now I am curious

How many of you have actually done that?

Walk up to a random stranger - not in a brothel or a bar - and propose the question?

I'm not asking whether you have wanted to, but have you done so? If yes how often, what was the situation and what was the result?

I didn't so far... but I think I would if I stayed in Farangland for too long.

Thankfully I am in the LOS, and the world is totally different, I found I don't even need to make advances, as women who are "up to it" in the LOS don't seem to need an invitation.

Once one girl I was friendly chatting with (nothing even remotely erotic) just jumped on me and started kissing...

Another time I visited a disco (north Bangkok) and felt a university student's long fingernails running from my neck until my lower back inside my pants... I was holding my GF's hand at the time, should I add.

But also in everyday life it is not really rare that I get served with cards with a hand written mobile phone number on them and a "call me!" or similar.

This of course brings up the question why are the girls allowed to do something men aren't, and the second question would be why am I (and other men as well) not offended by such behavior?

Edited February 1, 2012 by manarak

[sbk]

Yes, the Thailand you are in is totally different. I have lived here for many years and do not know any Thai women who would behave the way you describe. Not disbelieving you but I am suggesting to you that you have made the same mistake many men do here, that because the women you manage to meet are available to you that they all are. Believe me, they are not and if you were to approach the ones who are not in the manner Wallaby describes (or the manner in which you are approached by the women you meet) they would indeed be very offended.

Don't make the mistake that your experiences are the be-all and end all of male female interactions in Thailand.

[manarak]

Yes, the Thailand you are in is totally different. I have lived here for many years and do not know any Thai women who would behave the way you describe. Not disbelieving you but I am suggesting to you that you have made the same mistake many men do here, that because the women you manage to meet are available to you that they all are. Believe me, they are not and if you were to approach the ones who are not in the manner Wallaby describes (or the manner in which you are approached by the women you meet) they would indeed be very offended.

Don't make the mistake that your experiences are the be-all and end all of male female interactions in Thailand.

huh?

Jumping to conclusions again sbk?

I didn't make any advances to these women, nor do I suggest all Thai women behave in that way.

I was, to say the least, very surprised about that behavior, especially the first time after coming from "the west".

These are just examples of what already happened and why I do not feel the need to behave like a jerk on sex withdrawal.

[GrahamF]

^ while I agree with you MiG16, I also think that there are certainly better examples of the progress of civilization than social etiquette loaded with frustration over repressed sexual needs. In the animal world, very many species have sex preceded by rituals which signal a male's or female's readiness. It seems humans lost this ability. I wonder how a man can sense the "right" moment to signal his interest? What are the telltale signs that a woman may be "up to it"?

Maybe you wanna get some game, it's not that hard to figure out when a woman is "up for it."(not my term). It's not all that hard to tell when a lady is interested in you, and it's not all that hard to signal ones interest in a woman without being rude.

[MiG16]

Thankyou Graham!

[Wallaby]

And now I am curious

How many of you have actually done that?

Walk up to a random stranger - not in a brothel or a bar - and propose the question?

I'm not asking whether you have wanted to, but have you done so? If yes how often, what was the situation and what was the result?

I have done it a number of times, some with a good result and some with a not good result, it all depends on the situation.

Just to give a couple instances. In Australia I was at a beer garden bar, a girl was laying on the grass reading the paper and I asked if I could have the business section. She asked if there as anything else I wanted. As a joke I just came out with 'yeah a shag'. She agreed and went to my car and did it and then returned to the beer garden where she met up with her friends and I met up with mine and didn't see each other again.

Another was on the last bus home from work. I chatted to the woman in the seat in front and asked if she wanted to get off at the next stop for some fun. She agreed, we did it then back on the next bus and never saw each other again.

Of course there are those that just said no. No problem. I didn't want to get to know them but wanted sex, they didn't.

If I come on strong like that it is because I don't particularly like the woman, I just want sex so I don't want to waste time with idle talk. If it is a woman I find very attractive then I won't ask like that because I would never go out with a woman that would agree to a shag just like that.

It's up to them, if they want to shag then ok, if they don't then that's ok as well. No big deal.

[marstons]

Wow, marston, you really need to get out more and meet women not on the internet, is all I can say to this. wow.

well this week i will be in BKK Pattaya and Had Yai, so getting out enough is not a problem. i prefer to meet non sex workers and this is done via the internet, i get 40-50 interest requests per week, so select the ones i consider suiable and chat. OK you have to have a reasonably level of intellegance to converse with them as most have degrees and well,paid jobs..

irony here, somebody spent most of the last 20 years on a tiny island telling somebody who has travelled most of Thailand and Asia need to get out more.

what interaction will you have with Thai's you have never met before.

[sbk]

Wow, marston, you really need to get out more and meet women not on the internet, is all I can say to this. wow.

well this week i will be in BKK Pattaya and Had Yai, so getting out enough is not a problem. i prefer to meet non sex workers and this is done via the internet, i get 40-50 interest requests per week, so select the ones i consider suiable and chat. OK you have to have a reasonably level of intellegance to converse with them as most have degrees and well,paid jobs..

irony here, somebody spent most of the last 20 years on a tiny island telling somebody who has travelled most of Thailand and Asia need to get out more.

what interaction will you have with Thai's you have never met before.

I don't need to get into a "my dick is bigger than yours" pissing contest with you Marston.

[MiG16]

ok, lets keep the discussion on topic rather than turning this into a directed focus on any one individual shall we

cheers

[maccaroni man]

it is nice that this thread has run so long and i can still get a laugh

[wolf5370]

A friend of mine, a Thai lady now almost 30, but then early 20's, was at a nightclub dancing. This nightclub was actually in southern Europe and not Thailand. A guy, looked to be early 40's, about 6 foot tall and a good 120+Kg, though it was OK to come up behind her and rub his tackle against her bottom. By instinct, my 5 foot friend spun jumped and punched the guy full on the nose - laying him out (i.e. knocking him on to his back). The guy got up and decided to become nasty, but was grabbed by security and ushered out the door.

Some people just think it's fine to sexually assault a girl in a club; some see a Thai female there and think her a prostitute. Such attitudes say a lot about people - and none of it nice!

Having said that, signals can often be confused - especially when a female that is unknown acts in an over friendly way (such as the Op), even when it is completely innocent. If signals are corssed, what is worse - the guy making a friendly overture towards coupling, or too let "actions speak louder"?

The former, surely - at worse it should be embarassing - the latter, at worse it's assault (like our "friend" in the club above). If the guy got the wrong signal, bearing in mind the foreign country/culture, holiday mode state of mind and smiling (overly?) friendliness of an unknown female stranger, it is hardly surprising.

I really don't think she should have taken offense, and his embarassment was clear by his suddenly turning tail and running.

He thought he had landed on his feet (got lucky), but misread the situation, he verbally tested that hypothesis rather than assuming it, and found (to his embarassment) he had indeed misread it, so removed himself from said situation. Personally, I think he acted with decorum and grace - like a gentleman should. If we all erred on the side of caution on every cue, then this world would be a lot more sparsely populated than it is now - and there would be a lot of lonely unhappy people on it to boot.

[MiG16]

Amazing how it's always turned as the woman's fault

A guy says vulgar things to a woman when they meet at a business setting but it's her fault she said hello and smiled?

She walks away in embarrassment because of his vulgar words and he's being a gentleman???

[Wallaby]

Amazing how it's always turned as the woman's fault

A guy says vulgar things to a woman when they meet at a business setting but it's her fault she said hello and smiled?

She walks away in embarrassment because of his vulgar words and he's being a gentleman???

Well if a woman is embarrassed or gets angry because someone asks her for a shag then yes it is her fault.

Must be many men wandering down soi 6 in Pattaya absolutely furious with women.

Some women just need to lighten up.

[sbk]

Some men need to learn manners

[MiG16]

I'm not the type to pray

But I will pray I never run into you wallaby

[smokie36]

Amazing how it's always turned as the woman's fault

A guy says vulgar things to a woman when they meet at a business setting but it's her fault she said hello and smiled?

She walks away in embarrassment because of his vulgar words and he's being a gentleman???

Well if a woman is embarrassed or gets angry because someone asks her for a shag then yes it is her fault.

Must be many men wandering down soi 6 in Pattaya absolutely furious with women.

Some women just need to lighten up.

If you can't talk to a woman and make her laugh...read the signs...ask her if she's like to meet again for a drink/meet up again without resorting to sex talk at a first meeting then you are a moron.

I suspect you spend way too much of your time on Soi 6 or in Nana Plaza. The last refuges of sad and pathetic old men who have no real understanding or care for women at all.