Can My Daughter Get NHS Treatment?

[samsong101]

Hi all,

My Thai wife and our 1 year old daughter are coming over to the uk for 6 months on a family visa.My daughter has a British passport and a Thai one as well but i was wondering while she is in the uk could she get registered with a doctor here just in case she gets ill?With my Thai wife i will get her some medical insurance but surely my daughter would be entitled to free healthcare?ok thanks in advance

[MAJIC]

The short answer is: your Daughter has a British Passport,which should state on the first page "British Citizen"

Therefore she should be able to easily Register at your local Doctors Health Centre,the problem arises that you are only in the UK,for six months,and you are as a family non Resident.

There was no problem with my Thai/English Daughter,Registering,and she has full NHS Rights to treatment,but she was intending to stay full time in the UK.It would be best to phone up the "NHS DIRECT"before approaching a Health Centre.

[theoldgit]

NHS treatment has nothing to do with nationality, it's all about if you are "ordinarily resident in the UK", if she lives in Thailand then she is not a UK resident, the same will apply to you if you live in Thailand no matter how long you previously lived in the UK. The are a few exceptions to this rule, including emergency treatment, though I'm sure some people have managed to get free cover, it's not a risk I would take though.

Of course if she is going to settle in the UK, and can prove it, she is entitled to NHS benefits from day one.

You might want to read through the information on this link, especially this bit "Nationality or past or present payments of UK taxes and National Insurance contributions are not taken into consideration when establishing residence. The only thing relevant is whether you ordinarily live in the UK."

http://www.dh.gov.uk...sable/DH_074374

Edited January 2, 2012 by theoldgit

[ludditeman]

Of course if she is going to settle in the UK, and can prove it, she is entitled to NHS benefits from day one.

There is no requirement for you to prove anything.

If anyone asks, you and your daughter are intending to settle full time in the UK.

Your wifes visa status is irrelevant.

[champken]

Of course if she is going to settle in the UK, and can prove it, she is entitled to NHS benefits from day one.

There is no requirement for you to prove anything.

If anyone asks, you and your daughter are intending to settle full time in the UK.

Your wife's visa status is irrelevant.

That's the way i would play it. When you register her at a Doctors surgery, you probably will get asked where she was registered before, but providing you have a UK address and you say that your daughter is intending to settle in the UK which she is fully entitled to do, then that should be sufficient.

[7by7]

There is a requirement to show that she is resident in the UK; though for a British citizen the doctor or whoever may assume that this is so.

However, to register anyone, except a new born or new UK resident, the practice will want either her NHS number or the name and address of her previous GP; neither of which she will have as she is living abroad.

The practice may ask why her mother is not registering too, and will wonder why all three of you arrived together, but whilst you and your daughter intend to settle in the UK you wife, her mother, is only visiting!

Pretending that she is a resident and so receiving NHS treatment when in fact she is not is breaking the rules. The consequences of being caught doing so, I do not know; but I suspect at the least they would include repaying the full cost of any treatment received.

Better to take out adequate health insurance for you, your wife and your daughter rather than hope to get away with abusing the system; even if the system does appear to be unfair to some.

[ludditeman]

Pretending that she is a resident and so receiving NHS treatment when in fact she is not is breaking the rules. The consequences of being caught doing so, I do not know; but I suspect at the least they would include repaying the full cost of any treatment received.

I always intend to be a permanent resident when I return to the UK, I change my mind often.

Asking my 3 month old son if he intends to remain in the UK as a resident, well good luck getting a sensible answer from him.

As far as I can see, there is no UK law telling me I can't change my mind whenever I like!

Edited January 2, 2012 by ludditeman

[7by7]

So, the OP is returning to the UK to settle with his one year old daughter, but his wife, her mother, is only visiting!

You intend to settle in the UK with your 3 month old son, but your wife, his mother, is only visiting!

Explain that when the authorities come calling to ask for the cost of any medical treatment they've received!

Attempting to abuse the system may work sometimes, but the more you lie, the greater the chance of being caught. I would not recommend it.

[ludditeman]

So, the OP is returning to the UK to settle with his one year old daughter, but his wife, her mother, is only visiting!

You intend to settle in the UK with your 3 month old son, but your wife, his mother, is only visiting!

Explain that when the authorities come calling to ask for the cost of any medical treatment they've received!

Attempting to abuse the system may work sometimes, but the more you lie, the greater the chance of being caught. I would not recommend it.

I can't afford the Visa process for my wife and couldn't support her if she got there anyway, so she wouldn't be coming.

But when I turn up in the UK, I get immediate emergency accommodation for me and my kids and all sorts of benefits for arriving as a single parent family, I don't have to put my hand in my pocket for anything apart from the taxi fare from the airport to my local DHSS office.

(I also tell them I was forcibly made single by UK immigration, which always goes down well with the social services)

Edited January 2, 2012 by ludditeman

[7by7]

Really?

Today at 16.29 in this post you say

My pension income is mostly index linked, taking it out of the pension fund to buy somewhere I can never own would be very foolish. My capital investments made 9% last year, not 4%, my 'walking around' money (usually around 1 million bht) only gets 3.25% interest.............I don't consider myself on the 'breadline'

See how easy it is to trip up when you try to deceive?

[ludditeman]

Really?

Today at 16.29 in this post you say

My pension income is mostly index linked, taking it out of the pension fund to buy somewhere I can never own would be very foolish. My capital investments made 9% last year, not 4%, my 'walking around' money (usually around 1 million bht) only gets 3.25% interest.............I don't consider myself on the 'breadline'

See how easy it is to trip up when you try to deceive?

But nobody in the UK has that information, including the UK courts, all my assets were 'disappeared' years ago.

As far as I know, being a compulsive liar, is not a crime in any country of the world.

Edited January 2, 2012 by ludditeman

[7by7]

Here you say

I still pay tax in the UK

and here you say

All my bank accounts, pensions, investments are registered to a UK address.

Being a compulsive liar is not a criminal offence in the UK, but lying in an attempt to obtain benefits to which you are not entitled is.

Enough of this diversion under the bridge. On topic posts only in future.

[ludditeman]

OK so I think we can all agree the very best way to return to the UK would be :-

1) For you to return to the UK with the sole intention to remain a permanent resident with your daughter.

2) For your wife to visit the UK with the intention of applying for a settlement VISA, once her family visit expires.

As far as I can see, this allows you to enjoy NHS benefits without breaking any laws.

To stay completely legal, I understand you might want to have return tickets to Thailand, for your family, so you can return to Thailand with your wife when she secures her settlement VISA.

[7by7]

2) For your wife to visit the UK with the intention of applying for a settlement VISA, once her family visit expires.

Visitors cannot apply for settlement whilst in the UK, they have to return home and do so there.

As far as I can see, this allows you to enjoy NHS benefits without breaking any laws

Not so, as they are not in the UK for a settled purpose; they are visiting. That they may be returning to Thailand at the end of the visit so Mrs Samsong101 can apply for settlement doesn't change that.

"So, Mr Samsong101, as you and you family are in the UK to settle, please explain why your wife only has a visit visa!"

There may be ways of obtaining NHS treatment for the OP and his daughter while they are visiting the UK, but as they would not be UK residents and will not have entered the UK for a settled purpose, none of them would be legal.

The best way would be for the OP to take out adequate health insurance for him and his family while they are visiting.

I am not saying that is right; but it is so.

[bifftastic]

Whilst it's probably correct that the 'normally resident' rule should apply, and you will probably need travel insurance to cover NHS treatment. I'd just like to add my experience to the debate.

When my wife was here in the UK on a Family Visit Visa, I asked at my GP about how we would go about making a doctor's appointment should she fall ill during her visit.

I made it clear that she was here on a Visit Visa, and that she had adequate travel insurance to cover any expenses.

They told me that it wouldn't be a problem, and I could register her as a visitor. When I asked about how the payments should be made (would we have to pay first and claim from the insurance) they told me there would be no charges made for the doctor's appointments!

I know they were probably mistaken, and we would have ended up with a bill of some kind had my wife actually needed treatment, but in reality, if your daughter has a British passport and you register her at your GP practice, saying that she has no previous NHS history as she used to live in Thailand, I reckon they'll register her as a patient and you'll be fine.

As has been mentioned before in a few threads, all that a UK national needs to do in order to receive NHS treatment (even if they've been non-resident for the required amount of time to 'un-qualify' themselves for free treatment) is to declare that they are, now, resident in the UK.

As for any questions such as "how come your wife's on a visit visa?" I doubt that a receptionist would even know what one of those is! And anyway, it's not relevant to your daughter's eligibility for NHS treatment, she's a UK citizen and as such is entitled to it (being normally resident in the UK, as she would be, until your plans change and you go back to Thailand).

The system is there for you to use, the loopholes are there to be wriggled through, so wriggle through them and get what your daughter needs. We've all paid into the NHS for all of our working lives, so use it when you need it.

[7by7]

Bifftastic, I don't know when your experience was, but this government has tightened up on this aspect over the last few months. ‘Health tourists’ will pay the price for their NHS debts. Would the OP's daughter receiving NHS treatment to which she, strictly speaking, was not entitled affect her mother's next visa application? I don't know; but were I the OP I wouldn't want to take the risk.

The OP and his daughter are not currently UK residents, they are visiting. This means that under the current rules they are not entitled to NHS treatment and to obtain it means using deception; lying.

Samsong101, you asked a question to which the answer is clear; neither you nor your daughter are eligible for NHS treatment while you are in the UK as visitors; that you are both British citizens does not change that.

You have been given two sets of advice; lie and risk getting caught or take out insurance. It is your choice which to do.

There is already a topic in General discussing this at length, and I see no point in duplicating that discussion here.

So, as your question has been answered, I'm closing this.