Six Killed In Van Accident In Samut Prakan

[OzMick]

Was the truck even moving at the time of the accident?

If the truck was doing 60-80 kmh, the van would have hit it but wouldn't have stayed stuck under the truck the way it is?

It was mentioned that "the driver fled", but I don't really see how the van driver could have survived that impact, and I doubt that he would have had a chance to jump before hitting the truck.

Which leads me to assume that the truck was stopped and the truck driver fled, probably because he shouldn't have been stopped where he was.

Way off course WB. For starters, from the second post:

"....Worawut Harnlakorn, the driver of the 18-wheeler, and his colleague were present to give their account of the accident......The police were later able to identify the missing van driver........"

Stopped in traffic ain't an offence, but he said he was driving. IMHO the impact would have pushed the nose of the van down, and the rebound of the springs wedged it firmly under the tray. Also, the rear wheels would have still been driving the van forward until the engine stalled, unless the driver managed to knock it out of gear (unlikely).

When I'm in one of these death-traps, I feel like a sardine in a can. In even a minor impact they seem to fold like tin-foil, doors flying open and passengers trapped or thrown out. I feel safer on a motorbike.

[finnomick1]

Was the truck even moving at the time of the accident?

If the truck was doing 60-80 kmh, the van would have hit it but wouldn't have stayed stuck under the truck the way it is?

It was mentioned that "the driver fled", but I don't really see how the van driver could have survived that impact, and I doubt that he would have had a chance to jump before hitting the truck.

Which leads me to assume that the truck was stopped and the truck driver fled, probably because he shouldn't have been stopped where he was.

Way off course WB. For starters, from the second post:

"....Worawut Harnlakorn, the driver of the 18-wheeler, and his colleague were present to give their account of the accident......The police were later able to identify the missing van driver........"

Stopped in traffic ain't an offence, but he said he was driving. IMHO the impact would have pushed the nose of the van down, and the rebound of the springs wedged it firmly under the tray. Also, the rear wheels would have still been driving the van forward until the engine stalled, unless the driver managed to knock it out of gear (unlikely).

When I'm in one of these death-traps, I feel like a sardine in a can. In even a minor impact they seem to fold like tin-foil, doors flying open and passengers trapped or thrown out. I feel safer on a motorbike.

Well spotted OzMick, and you are quite right to enlighten WB for his error. The truck driver did NOT run off, he stayed and reported to the B.I.B. A responsible driver ( at last ). A lot of the posters on this subject do not seem to understand the difference between an RTA ( road traffic accident ) invloving a high speed crash, and a crash when tail-gating. This accident is definately a high speed collision. You don't ram a minibus that far underneath a semi - trailor unless it is done at high speed. The truck was probably travelling at about 70kph ( depending on the road ), and the minibus was probably travelling over 120kph. This would give an impact speed of over 50kph. Tail-gating involves all the vehicles travelling at the SAME speed. When one slows done or stops, the following vehicles have little or no chance of avoiding a collision, but the impact speed is minimal. All UK and European trucks have an underrun bar fitted to the trailor which minimises just how far a vehicle can go under the trailor. They are very sturdy ( I've towed a 44 ton truck using one ). Maybe this would be a good idea for the Ministry of Transport to insist upon, but like most vehicular improvements, they only get done on new equipment. very few improvements are ever made retrospectively. I'd like to know just how fast the HGV was going, because from the pictures, the HGV is very close to the grass verge suggesting he could have been travelling on the hard shoulder therefore quite slowly -- not that he shouldn't have been driving there.

[whybother]

Way off course WB. For starters, from the second post:

"....Worawut Harnlakorn, the driver of the 18-wheeler, and his colleague were present to give their account of the accident......The police were later able to identify the missing van driver........"

Stopped in traffic ain't an offence, but he said he was driving. IMHO the impact would have pushed the nose of the van down, and the rebound of the springs wedged it firmly under the tray. Also, the rear wheels would have still been driving the van forward until the engine stalled, unless the driver managed to knock it out of gear (unlikely).

When I'm in one of these death-traps, I feel like a sardine in a can. In even a minor impact they seem to fold like tin-foil, doors flying open and passengers trapped or thrown out. I feel safer on a motorbike.

Sorry ... I hadn't read that.

I still don't know how the van driver could have possibly walked away from that.

[rmacdon61]

I have always warned family and friends visiting to stay away from Vans and buses. I also watch for them and avoid them at all costs when on the road. It seems they travel in packs at high speed just inches from each other.

Edited January 7, 2012 by metisdead
Please do not post in all capital letters, bold, unusual fonts, sizes or colors. It can be difficult to read.

[webfact]

Police issue summons for passenger van driver who caused accident which killed 6; van owner gives victims' families Bt50,000 each /TANN

[challenger99]

These vans are to be avoided. Either as a passenger or as a fellow road user.

TO AVOID these VAN's would be the wrong solution because it is a convient transport means.

1st all driver of passenger cars' shall pass a serious driving and character test

2nd all this car shall be "mechanical or electronical" plombed = max. speed limitation as many car are in Europe and USA.

3rd if a Van or Bus driver make a heavy accident his driver license shall be retired forever, this make him maybe more responsible in driving.

[ALFREDO]

I have always warned family and friends visiting to stay away from Vans and buses. I also watch for them and avoid them at all costs when on the road.

Yes, good idea, not to use them. I avoid them when I can and try to drive myself whenever it is possible or use a Taxi where I can decide how he is driving.

If not, i am out.

[JurgenG]

A week ago exactly, one of this van almost drive out of the road between Kabinburi and Chachoengsao. I was passing a car, and I wasn't driving slowly, around 120-140 kmph, when the van arrived just behind me then suddenly it was on my right. I was already on the right lane, there was no lane on my right. He still managed to pass and pushed me on the car on my left when he cut my way to come back on the road. Everybody in my car was screaming and the only reason I didn't chase him to explain him my point of view is because I felt the passengers in my car were shaken enough and didn't need the additional excitement of high speed car chase.

One day if you see on the front page of the newspaper the picture of a falang in a police station next to a badly beaten van driver, it will probably be me !

Edited January 7, 2012 by JurgenG

[changnaam]

We drove past at around 8 am and although a lot of action around the rescue vehicles the mini van was not being attended (we were in a taxi, not rubber necking). I assumed that every one was out by then. My thoughts go out to the poor girl who was trapped another 2 hours before the fire.

I do wonder how that fire started (machinery or smoking) but an inquest or report woud be too much to ask.

Edited January 7, 2012 by changnaam

[somo]

Until laws against dangerous driving are enforced this will go on and on. Laws wont be enforced by lazy policemen unless they are given the equipment and paid to do so. At the moment they are content to set up road blocks and effortlessly collect backhanders for petty offences or non existent ones. I blame successive governments for not making it a priority to save lives.

[Tanaka]

I had to make the trip from Chonburi to Bangkok several times last year but after one particular trip, I vowed to my wife never to use one again. All the trips had been horror rides with the driver completely oblivious to any concept of road safety or common sense. They were all as bad as each other until the last, final straw. The driver was overtaking in the right lane when we approached our exit for the motorway. Instead of slowing and moving left he sped up and swung across the traffic to our left. The bus went up on two wheels and only righted itself when it hit the concrete wall beside the road. The driver accelerated away as if nothing had happened. The damage to the van was admittedly only skin deep but it could have been so much worse. (I suspect they would need a new front end, a new door and under-panel at the front) The 12 people in the van were white as we got out in Bangkok. I suspect some of them are still forced to do this death ride every day. Luckily, I now have a car!

And none of you gave the driver a proper fistful? I know I would have.

[Tanaka]

yet more tripe from TV members who like to post opinions based on little or no evidence or "better still" - hearsay or their own personal prejudices.

One is left wondering why there was a fire ATER the rescue workers had started their work.

As a former London Fireman from many years ago I attended a lot of RTA`s and in a proportion of these the vehicle caught fire when we arrived on the scene. This was virtually always caused by a ruptured fuel pipeline being ignited by the battery before we had a chance to routinely disconnect it. Maybe Thai rescue workers aren`t briefed to carry out this necessary action. That aside these minibuses are a dangerous way to travel. You only have to see the amount of them sporting Toyota Racing Development stickers and fitted with ridiculous, torque sapping, big bore `silencer` boxes to understand the mentality of those driving them. The poor girl who died in the fire deserves redress for her terrible death but with Thai driving offence sentencing being on a par with that of the UK I don`t expect those responsible have too much to worry about.

And apparently the "rescue team" did not have a single fire extinguisher with them.

[chooka]

The driver was able to run away from that accident? what a shame. Shame being he will only spend about 1-2 years in prison then back on to the roads for more idiotic driving. <deleted> loser

You haven't been on here long have you? It is the norm for the drivers to do a runner.

[thanchart]

Crazy bloody tailgaters, all the van drivers in this country need much, much, more driver training... They're a JOKE! Think they're F1 drivers risking people lives everyday.

Fell very sorry for all (and their families) but the driver!

Yes, without doubt as my wife and I tut around on our scooter, we realized that in general, these public vans are the most reckless and dangerous drivers on the road. They often move out of the left lane without looking out for oncoming vehicles, especially the 2-wheelers (or more probably ignored the oncoming bike). Several times already we had to brake had to avoid crashing into them as they swerve out to the 2nd and even 3rd lane. Indeed they are the counterpart of the Jeeps in the Philippines. Iro9nical the real counterpart of the jeep - the Song Taew are very tame in comparison,

I really wonder why the police allow the obvious bad behavior of these Van drivers. They are really a danger to other drivers, even at bus-stops. Buses re forced to stop outside the bus-stops as the Vans are stationary at the bus tops.

[chooka]

These vans are to be avoided. Either as a passenger or as a fellow road user.

TO AVOID these VAN's would be the wrong solution because it is a convient transport means.

1st all driver of passenger cars' shall pass a serious driving and character test

2nd all this car shall be "mechanical or electronical" plombed = max. speed limitation as many car are in Europe and USA.

3rd if a Van or Bus driver make a heavy accident his driver license shall be retired forever, this make him maybe more responsible in driving.

Sorry but point 3 made me laugh. Just how many people in Thailand do you think there are now who actually hold a licence. I personally know 2 van drivers who have never had a driver licence.

[thanchart]

Crazy bloody tailgaters, all the van drivers in this country need much, much, more driver training... They're a JOKE! Think they're F1 drivers risking people lives everyday.

Fell very sorry for all (and their families) but the driver!

R.I.P. and condolences to the loved ones.

To think that more training is the answer is naive. Everybody knows the drivers must be more diligent in updating their amulets.

Training sounds nice, but it will not be the answer. These guys are aware of the dangers but they think it will not happen to them. What is needed is a really heavy punishment, esp jail term (and yes, caning if Thailand has this - trust me,.it is a better deterrent than a jail sentence). And a Ban on driving for life - the guy has taken lives!

[PoodMaiDai]

The driver was able to run away from that accident? what a shame. Shame being he will only spend about 1-2 years in prison then back on to the roads for more idiotic driving. <deleted> loser

It's crazy how many drivers survive accidents that kill everyone else on board.

[Schnitzel]

Those vans speeding round the clock on Thailands Highways at 150 km/hr as 90 km/hr is the speed limit.

Shifts for drivers are too long and they keep themselves awake with yabaa and so on.

Funny is even if you take a look at the way you obtain a drivers license in Thailand.

Many companies are'nt even properly insured for cases like this

Once I was stopped by the cops (armed with a laserpistol) with my car at ~110 km/hr while these minivans passed the checkpoint at high speed.

No cop was interested to stop or charge them.

Holy Buddha - next life's waiting

[TAWP]

And apparently the "rescue team" did not have a single fire extinguisher with them.

They had several, see the picture from after the fire started. But they where not enough against a violent fire that is being feed by gas.

[ttelise]

Here is an idea, why not pull every van driver that drives excessively risky out of the van and kick his ass. If that kept happening, they might slow down. Extreme measures may be required when dealing with extreme ignorance. I am fortunate to have transportation available to me whenever there, but if I happen to take a bus or a van and some asshol_e placed my life at risk he would hear about or much worse if he continued in such a fashion.

Otherwise, the only solution is to stop using them if companies cannot be held legally liable which is adequate deference in countries like US.

[ttelise]

And apparently the "rescue team" did not have a single fire extinguisher with them.

They had several, see the picture from after the fire started. But they where not enough against a violent fire that is being feed by gas.

True, but would it not be prudent to have at least one fire truck on scene when a crash as severe as this has occurred. Seems to be protocol everywhere else and just a basic tentament of common sense. Guess the fire fighter folks are busy hanging out with cops responsible for observance of traffic laws.

[whybother]

And apparently the "rescue team" did not have a single fire extinguisher with them.

In one of the pictures above (the burning van I think), there is a fire extinguisher visible.

[Balls]

My condolences to the families of all the victims who have no way to recuperate lost lives.

Of course suing the state for allowing these people to have operators licenses is darn near lese majeste.

How about basic apptitute or intelligence tests? Phychiatcric test might be better.

When will someone develop a test for driving under the influence of too much Red Bull?

[finnomick1]

And apparently the "rescue team" did not have a single fire extinguisher with them.

They had several, see the picture from after the fire started. But they where not enough against a violent fire that is being feed by gas.

True, but would it not be prudent to have at least one fire truck on scene when a crash as severe as this has occurred. Seems to be protocol everywhere else and just a basic tentament of common sense. Guess the fire fighter folks are busy hanging out with cops responsible for observance of traffic laws.

Trouble in Thailand is, it's the rescue teams that get the call first. They respond then assess the situation and then call the emergency services if they cannot handle things themselves. Other trouble is most fire engines I see seem to be watering the grass or flowerbeds in front of town halls etc.......form your own opinions please !

[finnomick1]

Notwithstanding all the comments so far, isn't it about time the Ministry of Transport testing stations regulated these minibuses as to how many seats and passengers they carry ? In the UK, ALL minibuses and people carriers plying for hire and reward MUST have an emergency exit which MUST be able to be opened both from the inside and outside. This emergency exit must not be blocked by seats across the rear of the vehicle. There must be a clear aisle from the front side entry door and the rear door. Different councils ( who regulate these vehicles in the UK ) have different ideas as to how wide this aisle must be ( Doncaster requiring the widest aisle for extra FB's ). Luggage stacked to the roof behind the rear seats is also a problem. Come on Thailand, DO something to stop this carnage !!!!!

[kiwikeith]

Very hot topic for those whom have travelled in the Kemi Kazi express, especially my self who have been in one having an accident and having had to pull a mad driver up once before we all died, after that I stopped using the suicide bus.I wrote to the media making a few suggestions to no avail, the media did not even reply, I guess its in the hands of Bhudda when you ride with these crazy lunatics.

The driver ran because he was probably on something(we all know that possibility) but probably will be suffering from shock when arrested and was walking around in a daze!. What needs to happen is the media need to print a few full page photos of the gruesome details to embaress the authorities into action. The driver should be strung up for stoneing where you buy the tickets and left to rot, I bet that might have an effect but no we cant go back to these primitive ways just fine the truck driver for stopping to quickly and give the driver a new van to drive.

My sincere condolances to all who suffer from this tragic event.

[Cambo]

Couldn't agree more around horrific Van's, their drivers and the let's not forget the owners whom are a part responsible for pushing these drivers.

I am surprised though why nobody mentions the trucks, as my 15 years of driving in Thailand have let me watch thousands of trucks with limited, poor or even missing tail lights, reflex' and indicators.

IMO what is needed is a TOTAL REFORM of the Transport Ministry with vehicle rules being inforced with a "no-escape" attitude from the traffic police instead of the normal corrupt (beer money) they occasionally accept. That of course also includes severe penalties if lack of driving license as many of the van drivers do not have a license, yet they are responsible for the passengers. Would you fly with an airplane if the pilot would show the same attitude as these Van drivers ?

But, reforms doesn't buy votes, better keep the working class happy with the cultural escape routes and accept the collateral damage.

Victims, RIP !

Edited January 9, 2012 by Cambo

[cowslip]

I don't know if it is symptomatic of the critical capacity of some posters on this thread but the focus by each poster seems to be on single issues - as if that is the key to solving the problem of road safety in Thailand.

The fact is that there are literally HUNDREDS of issues here and they are all INTERLINKED - you cant pick on one thing and hope to stop the carnage; it requires a rethink from the ground up, literally.

e.g. -Tailgating - to stop it you need to enforce it? - well the police can't / won't - they need to be trained (issue) and then drivers need to be educated (issue), but first you need to know why people experience tailgating (issue).....and the beat goes on....and on.....and on..

That is just one subject mentioned

Seat belts and hats are a crucial factor - but they need to be worn (issue) - expats take note!!!! - the laws are there - educate drivers? enforce the law? How? - BTW - I know several expats who habitually don't wear seat belts!

BTW - If you often experience tailgating - it has been shown that it is partly your fault - GET OUT OF THE WAY!!!!!!

People see driving as the fault of others - a series of blame attribution yet they fail to realise that they ae part of the problem.

NO incident is EVER the fault of one person - however stupid their driving - the reaction of others, road surface, police control - the causes go on and on........

I really don't think that some posters actually realise how BIG the problem is. In the West we have had a century or more of road transport to get it right - often by trial and error, Thailand is still an "equipment"; market when it comes to motor vehicles and they ae dealing with up to date fast vehicles - in the west we developed to vehicles as we developed road safety - in countries like Thailand the whole think has happened within a couple of generations and the amount of work that needs to be done is ENORMOUS.So forget about your single issue moans and look at the big picture and consider what has to be don from the ground up to make the roads of Thailand (and S.E.Asia) a safer place.

Edited January 9, 2012 by cowslip

[CqK]

These vans are to be avoided. Either as a passenger or as a fellow road user.

Could not agree with you more!

[ratcatcher]

My condolences to the families of all the victims who have no way to recuperate lost lives.

Of course suing the state for allowing these people to have operators licenses is darn near lese majeste.

How about basic apptitute or intelligence tests? Phychiatcric test might be better.

When will someone develop a test for driving under the influence of too much Red Bull?

Sebastian Vettel seems to have no problem whatsoever driving under the influence of Red Bull.