Some Random Thai Help

[sebscala]

Hi all,

I don't know if anyone will be interested in helping but I am struggling to find any definitive answers to a few questions that I have and maybe someone here can shed some light. My issue is that I learn Thai simply by trial and error and although my spoken Thai is pretty good, I usually only know one way to say things and this leaves a lot of holes when having conversations unfortunately! Please note that I don't generally speak or use formal Thai very much as I speak almost exclusively with people in my own age range and "social" level and that I can't read Thai, only phonetic Thai!

1) Took bow? - I don't really understand the difference between this and "Chai bow", which I take to mean the same as "Chai mai"

2) Past tense - I know (or have been lead to believe) it doesn't really exist in the sense that I am used to it and use "leuw" or "reb roy" (which I don't think I fully understand!) depending on the situation which seems to work most of the time but phrasing something like "When I saw you last week I thought that you looked tired" stumps me, although I could say it in the present tense with no issue.

3) See you tomorrow - I know "dio ma" means I am coming back and "dio ma mai" means I will "come again" but somehow that doesn't seem fitting for telling the trainer at the gym that I will see her again tomorrow! Is there something more applicable?

4) To take - I know this as "ow ma", as it "phom ja ow ma prunee" (I will come and get it tomorrow), and "ow ma hai" means take as in "merai Khun Jai ja ow ma hai kong" but how do I say "I will go home and get my blue shirt and then come back", can't seem to phrase this properly.

5) Where do you come from? I noticed recently that I can't really pick this up. I was taught that it was "Khun ben con ti nai" (you come from where) but when I noticed most people seem to say something else and I can guess that is what they mean but don't know what they are actually saying.

6) Him/Her - Khao, ther, man. I understand that "Man" is an impolite way to say in, like "goo" and "mung" but in dictionaries the difference between Khao and Ther isn't clear. I have had people tell me that "ther" is rude, so I am very confused.

7) Can I have - I was taught that if something is free (let's say an ashtray or some tissue, i.e. something the place you are at won't charge for), you should say "kor .... noi kub" and if it isn't free say "ow... kub". Today I was at a restaurant where water is free, should I be saying "kor nam plao ik gao noi kub" when I want a refill?

On a side note, I don't have time (or really the money to be honest) to go to language school or do a total immersion course but a freelance teacher for an hour or two a week would be great to have, in kind of a casual question answer, conversation kind of way and possibly to give me a start on reading Thai. I live in mid Sukhumvit area, any recommendations? I would love to get better at speaking much quicker!

Anyway that's it! Any help is appreciated!

[rgs2001uk]

Ok here we go,

1.Took bow, I assume you mean took bplao, this means correct or not.

Two problems here, bplao, we are using clusters, subject for another conversation.

Secondly, the polite way of saying it would be, took reu bplao, this means correct or not, its common in everyday speaking to omit the reu.

"Chai bow" see bplao, yes or not.

"Chai mai" not the same as above, chai mai implies I already know the answer of the question but only want to confirm it.

eg, khun cheu john chai mai, your name is john isnt it?

Khun cheu John chai bplao, is your name John or not?

2. To change tenses start with meua , yesterday meau (wan) nee in common speech the wan is ommitted.

Two days ago, meua song wan gon.

leuw and riap roy, I go to the shoe repair shop and am asking if my shoes are ready, riap roy mai, shoes ready yes, answer riap roy laew, laew indicates an action is complete, usually omitted when context is understood, riap roy, means complete(d) riap roy laew ,eans completed already.

Gin kaao laew ruu yang, have you eaten already or not, in normal everday speech, gin khaao yang is used.

Answer would be gin khaao laew for eaten or yang for not yet.

3. Diaw ma, usually means wait a moment, eg I am sitting with friends, a friend across the road sees me and says diaw ma, hang on will be with you in a minute.

I answer the phone and ask my friend where she is, diam ma, hold on I am coming.

For see you tomorrow, prung nee jer gan eek, tomorrow meet again, see previous answer about setting the tense, sometimes the more formal pop gan eek is used depending on who you are talking to.

Jer gan mai is aslo used.

"I will go home and get my blue shirt and then come back"

Ja klap baan ao seu cee fa klap ma or ja klap baan rap seu cee fan laew gor klap ma.

5. Where do you come from?

If asking Thai people, maa jak jangwat arai, what area do you come from?

Khao ben khon arai, what country does he come from.

Bai nai maa,when you meet your friend on his way home, where have you been (to come back)?

6.Man goo and meung for normal everday speech are impolite and I would avoid using them at all costs, in fact forget youeven know these words.

However when used amongst VERY CLOSE friends or family can be used as a term of endearment.

Eg, I meet my Australian friend, he say to me, where have you been you bastard?, it doesnt offend me, he is using it as a term of endearment. Americans have difficulty understanding this concept.

Ther for her isnt rude, again depends on context used.

7. "kor .... noi kub" is a very polite way of asking for something, whether its free or not.

I want to borrow a pen, kor pakka noi krap.

I want a bottle of beer Leo, I ask the waitress, kor bia Leo noi.

"Today I was at a restaurant where water is free, should I be saying "kor nam plao ik gao noi kub" when I want a refill?"

Normally I wouldnt say anything, just help myself, why would you ask permission for something that is free.

As a side note, I strongly urge you to seek a proper school or teacher.

There is nothing wrong in being able to communicate with the locals at the local market.

However, this is the only language you will know, and if you ever have to deal with anyone in an official capacity you will be at a disadvantage.

These people all know this language and will often use it in private amongst friends or family, but face/status prevents them using it in everyday speech at the office or in formal settings.

[AjarnPasa]

Just to add a few comments:

(2)Tense is signified by auxiliary words, commonly ja (will) yoo (at present) and leaw (already).

So, ja bpai = will go, bpai yoo = going, bpai leaw = go already

There are other auxiliaries, but these are good ones to get your head around first.

dton or dton tee is another way to talk about a place in time: dton tee pom bpai tieow Phuket (when I went to Phuket).

(4) 'ao maa' is closer to 'bring' than to 'take' (proong nee ja ao maa hai - tomorrow I will bring it for you [lit. tomorrow will bring (and) give]). Ao bpai would be 'take'. e.g. ao torasaap pbai - take a telephone. The key is in the bpai (go) and maa (come). So ao bpai is literally like saying "take go" and ao maa is like saying 'take come'. From that you can work out the take/bring association. It will depend on the time and position of the speaker and context. Some examples:

I will take my shirt: ja ao sueah shirt bpai.

I will bring my shirt: ja ao sueah shirt maa.

I have brought my shirt: ao sueah shirt maa (laeow).

I am (at this moment) taking my shirt: ao sueah shirt bpai yoo

(5) the question of where are you from: you might be hearing khun pben khon prathet arai (lit. you are a person of which country?) or, less common, khun pben khon chart/san-chart arai (lit. you are a person of what nationality?)

(6) 'man' just means 'it' and, as in English, you wouldn't really call someone 'it'. Although in actual fact (when not being used intentionally derogatorily) 'man' is used in casual conversation among friends - not nearly as much though as goo and mueng, which, particularly for teenagers, passes perfectly adequately for 'me' and 'you' without being rude. They are just too informal to use in polite conversation and can send the more 'proper' members of society into an apoplexy if heard in close proximity to 'the public' (regardless of whether they use them themselves when behind closed doors). Like much of this, the social minefield is such that it makes sense to stay away from them unless you are really confident that you can use them correctly.

The only way you can really know is by being around the language and listening really carefully to how people speak to each other. Books on the subject are destined to fail in adequately explaining the subtleties.

As for learning the language, your best teachers are the people you speak to every day, but getting someone knowledgeable about the fine tuning of the language is a useful tool. Google learnthaifromawhiteguy he's pretty good.

[sebscala]

Hi,

Thanks very much to you both for the detailed replies, I really appreciate you taking the time to help me out.

From both of your responses I can see that although the way I thought some things were said is right, I was a bit off on others and that I have a long way to go. I found the progression from not being able to speak at all to where I am now (being comfortable in general day to day conversation, albeit quite simple conversation) was a hard road and that now I seem to be a little stuck - having learned most of the Nouns I wanted to and now moving onto the subtleties of tense etc.

So I will stick at it and try to find a formal teacher to help me get some kind of structure into my learning.

Again thank you and I will stick at it and hope I can truly master the language one day!

[Kathy1]

I think the "bow" in your first question is the isan word for "no".

[Mole]

No he meant เปล่า but when spoken it's usually said like เป่า or ป่าว

[AjarnPasa]

No he meant เปล่า but when spoken it's usually said like เป่า or ป่าว

Mind you, it'd carry pretty much the same meaning if it was ถูกบ่ wouldn't it?

[vincentinparis]

Skimming through, I'd also add:

5. (khun) maa jak tiinai is also a possibility, "where are you from?". Maa jak is also good for asking where something comes form. Even more concisely than what the others have said, (khun) pben knon arai is also used with the "pratheet" part understood, but not said.

6. "Ther" is the pronoun she/her, but it is also used as a very familiar, but not rude "you" among younger (teenage or post-teen) friends, male or female. It's unlikely you'd hear anybody much older using it to address someone directly.

[Mole]

Not quite exactly the same meaning. บ่ would be equivalent to ไหม or มั้ย

And his question was asking exactly about the difference between เปล่า and ไหม

Besides, if he was talking about lao/isaan language, they would have said แม่นบ่ and not ถูกบ่

Edited January 11, 2012 by Mole

[AjarnPasa]

Cheers, must brush up on my Isaan