Brit Killed Taking Bottle Of Water From Fridge

[glennoz]

they are not just keeping this one quiet, they keep them all quiet. to be honest they are not newsworthy, they are regular occurrences, unremarkable.

2 weeks ago on Koh Phangan i watched a drunk Russian kid of around 25 years of age round a corner out of our village at about 60-70 Kmh. He was in my lane and as i moved wide to avoid him, he dropped off an unmarked culvert, or rather his bike did. He continued moving forward at the same pace until he contacted the opposite bank and very likely a set of valves attached to the water main. his tracks in the sand and on the grass indicate he never even braked.

As first on the scene and a witness to the crash, i could see he was obviously shattered with a broken neck and broken arms that i could see, he would not respond to my calls. Unfortunately neither would any of the island rescue services and he slowly expired, likely drowning in his own blood while we waited almost 2 hours for any one of the 3 rescue services called to appear. by the time he died it was quite an event with 20+ locals and tourists as witnesses some very admirably offering whatever comfort they could to ensure he did not die alone.

the next day, the monks and the tesseban had been on site. red saftey gates marking the culvert had been put up, flouro banners in orange and green had been hung and a ton or so of dirt had been put in to fill the hole he had dropped into.

A few days later, his girlfriend added flowers and his picture to mark the scene of his death.

oddly there has been no report anywhere of his death.

please everyone just slow down and and look carefully he did not just die but his family also have a broken heart forever-sorry you had to witness a preventable accident. SLOW DOWN

[xthAi76s]

Sorry to hear about this fatal accident. However, I find this hard to understand. How can a fridge, which is covered in a "plastic" casing become electrically live?

?????????

Fridges have to be earthed. If you look there will be an earth wire at the back. However, in LOS they seem to think that earthing is optional. In fact, you'd be lucky to find any place with a 3 pin plug as a routine fitting. You'd be lucky to even find an earth point in a concrete or wood room/ house with plastic water piping. Which is why I've had to put in ground earths in the last two houses I've lived in here.

BTW, the outside of the fridge is metal, not plastic.

Is there anyone who can provide advice on this type of stuff in Thailand that is detailed enough to help DIYers here who don't have any background in electrics? I have no f**kin idea what to do, but I am concerned. My fridge does not appear to be earthed as it has only two pins. My electric cooker, same. My microwave has a Schuko? plug, but does not have the third ground pin in the plug. It does have a green ground wire on the back but there is nothing in my apartment to connect it to. Complicated crap.

You will get all the help you need on this http://www.thaivisa....-housing-forum/

I have a few threads there that I started on the subject of DIY wiring, including earths.

Thanks to you and other responders. I'll have a look. Much appreciated.

[roamer]

Quote option screwed again under new system. Anyway in reply to:

"and your qualifications are ?

An RCD would have saved his life, even without an earth "

RCD's are classified as additional protection. Or do you think the rest of the world is involved in a massive con still insisting on expensive earthing (grounding) systems ?

RCD's are not totally reliable, useless in a phase to neutral fault for example. I have seen RCD's in use in LOS with trip currents of over 200 mA, in the rest of the world they would classify these as EPD's, (equipment protective devices). 50 mA is enough to cause ventricular fibrillation.

An RCD is almost pointless without an earth as there is nothing for fault current to flow to to create an imbalance. Average body resistance is 2K ohms, you think an RCD will trip on that ?

Any time you want to demonstrate your faith in an ungrounded system in a swimming pool system protected by an RCB...well no actually I don't want to see it.

[draftvader]

Electrical safety in this country is something of a "black art". Odds on the building had no earth/ground connection.

Can't agree more with your comment, hard to find a decent electrician in the LOS just as well I do my own electrical work.

Yep, 2nd this. The apartment block I will at in Bangkok has an earth. Everything would be fine until the rainy season. So I decided to check. Following the line from the mains box back down to the ground I found standard 3-core power cabling poked into the ground. We live above a swamp and the cable gets flooded twice a day in rainy season! I have botched the botch job to run to higher ground, but this is still woefully inefficient.

The worst part about all this is that there is actually good work inside our apartment block, plenty of breakers (2 per room, 1 per floor and a mains breaker) AND they work!!

I do all my own fixes in my own apartment and I ALWAYS turn off everything at the fuse box. Even before changing a light bulb.

[Crossy]

An RCD is almost pointless without an earth as there is nothing for fault current to flow to to create an imbalance. Average body resistance is 2K ohms, you think an RCD will trip on that ?

Hmmm, Mr Ohm tells us that 2k @ 220V = 110mA. Most RCDs fitted in Thailand are 30mA (and many are 10mA), so yes, it would have tripped and saved the man's life.

RCDs work just fine if there is no ground, you are however correct in that they are secondary protection and should be used in addition to a proper ground.

[draftvader]

I think everyone should bring this simple tester when visiting Thailand, and check the fridge, shower etc..

I know you like to crack a joke but that is good advice, a voltage tester screwdriver you can carry them as easy as a pen.

But not in your hand luggage or you won't have one when you get here!

[roamer]

An RCD is almost pointless without an earth as there is nothing for fault current to flow to to create an imbalance. Average body resistance is 2K ohms, you think an RCD will trip on that ?

Hmmm, Mr Ohm tells us that 2k @ 220V = 110mA. Most RCDs fitted in Thailand are 30mA (and many are 10mA), so yes, it would have tripped and saved the man's life.

RCDs work just fine if there is no ground, you are however correct in that they are secondary protection and should be used in addition to a proper ground.

Sorry but feel we know too little about the circumstances to categorically state an RCD would have tripped, body resistance can easily drop to around 100 ohms if your standing in water, can decrease even further with application of voltage due to the contraction effect, more than one part of the body in contact creating a parallel circuit, even the wearing of a ring. All factors that can affect the situation.

I'm a great supporter of RCD's but they are not foolproof in all circumstances.

[Forkinhades]

An RCD is almost pointless without an earth as there is nothing for fault current to flow to to create an imbalance. Average body resistance is 2K ohms, you think an RCD will trip on that ?

Hmmm, Mr Ohm tells us that 2k @ 220V = 110mA. Most RCDs fitted in Thailand are 30mA (and many are 10mA), so yes, it would have tripped and saved the man's life.

RCDs work just fine if there is no ground, you are however correct in that they are secondary protection and should be used in addition to a proper ground.

thanks crossy

[Crossy]

Sorry but feel we know too little about the circumstances to categorically state an RCD would have tripped, body resistance can easily drop to around 100 ohms if your standing in water, can decrease even further with application of voltage due to the contraction effect, more than one part of the body in contact creating a parallel circuit, even the wearing of a ring. All factors that can affect the situation.

I'm a great supporter of RCD's but they are not foolproof in all circumstances.

There's no certainty in this world, so let's change that to "Most RCDs fitted in Thailand are 30mA (and many are 10mA), so yes, it would almost certainly have tripped and likely saved the man's life."

[roamer]

Sorry but feel we know too little about the circumstances to categorically state an RCD would have tripped, body resistance can easily drop to around 100 ohms if your standing in water, can decrease even further with application of voltage due to the contraction effect, more than one part of the body in contact creating a parallel circuit, even the wearing of a ring. All factors that can affect the situation.

I'm a great supporter of RCD's but they are not foolproof in all circumstances.

There's no certainty in this world, so let's change that to "Most RCDs fitted in Thailand are 30mA (and many are 10mA), so yes, it would almost certainly have tripped and likely saved the man's life."

I pass.

http://www.electrici...ot-earth-5.html

Edited January 15, 2012 by roamer

[Forkinhades]

An 30mA RCD will trip with a resistance of 1667 ohms, so body resistance does not really come into the equation.

[Forkinhades]

As for multiple contact points, this will actually reduce the total resistance, as resistances in parallel are calculated as product over sum, so (100 x 100) / (100 + 100) = 50 ohms, and the lower the resistance the more effective the RCD will be.

[mistitikimikis]

Sorry to hear about this fatal accident. However, I find this hard to understand. How can a fridge, which is covered in a "plastic" casing become electrically live?

?????????

Fridges have to be earthed. If you look there will be an earth wire at the back. However, in LOS they seem to think that earthing is optional. In fact, you'd be lucky to find any place with a 3 pin plug as a routine fitting. You'd be lucky to even find an earth point in a concrete or wood room/ house with plastic water piping. Which is why I've had to put in ground earths in the last two houses I've lived in here.

BTW, the outside of the fridge is metal, not plastic.

Is there anyone who can provide advice on this type of stuff in Thailand that is detailed enough to help DIYers here who don't have any background in electrics? I have no f**kin idea what to do, but I am concerned. My fridge does not appear to be earthed as it has only two pins. My electric cooker, same. My microwave has a Schuko? plug, but does not have the third ground pin in the plug. It does have a green ground wire on the back but there is nothing in my apartment to connect it to. Complicated crap.

This was a pool side fridge, any unearthed electrical appliance in such a situation is an accident waiting to happen. Note that in the absence of an earth even an RCD won't work, or even if it does trip it will only be after the electricity has flowed through you as you are providing the earth as is likely in a poolside scenario.

As far as your fridge not being earthed, I'm not aware of any Class II (not needing earthing) domestic refrigerators. Somewhere on the back of the fridge would be an earthing terminal to which you can attach an earthing wire, not much use if it has nowhere to go to. Common in LOS I'm afraid.

Even imported / locally fridges of (well)known brands are lots of times not equiped by the importer / manufacturer with an earthed cable-and-plug although the fridge has been equiped at the back with an earth-connection, but who cares??? Cheap and dangerous "cost-saving" not controled by any local public body................. In my case it was an expensive Hitachi.

[TommoPhysicist]

Sorry to hear about this fatal accident. However, I find this hard to understand. How can a fridge, which is covered in a "plastic" casing become electrically live?

I thought that too!

Two conductive contacts required for death by electrocution.

Looks like another cover-up of some sort.

[mistitikimikis]

Sorry to hear about this fatal accident. However, I find this hard to understand. How can a fridge, which is covered in a "plastic" casing become electrically live?

I thought that too!

Two conductive contacts required for death by electrocution.

Looks like another cover-up of some sort.

As far as I know most of the fridge-housings are metal, even my expensive Hitachi, so "live (phase)" against the housing and the sometimes deadly contact through the human body to earth is a fact. Why is the fridge-manufacturer supplying an earth-connection at the back?? Just for nothing?

[nocturn]

ive seen many brits reach into fridges, but never for water

[mistitikimikis]

Continuing concerning the acceptance by a Thai (import) "safety-board" (supposing it excists) one has to be careful in using a widely sold imported brand of (frying) pans as the appliance appears without a possibility to use an earth-cable but....................... ok, they explain at least how to hammer an earth-rod in (or is it a nail?) near the place you are using the pan and how to connect the earth-connection to the screw on the pan..........

[Semper]

ive seen many brits reach into fridges, but never for water