New Housing Project

[chonburi12]

Hi all.

I've just found an amazing new project in Bangkok with amazing price, location and style. I have contacted the company to go and talk and view their plans. It is not built yet but they have major projects built all over Thailand. They are major partners with the big banks like SCB and Bangkok Bank.

The only thing I am concerned about is them not being built yet (I suppose that is why they are so cheap) and I consider this as a risk, however, with the reputation partnering with SCB I am assuming this is a good company.

What are your thoughts? Do I still need a lawyer with big housing projects like this?

Jesus, people weren't wrong when they said shopping for a house is a hard.

[Mobi]

I wouldn't buy anything that isn't already built. There are far too many horror stories about folk who did exactly what you are thinking of doing.

These developers also have a terrible reputation for not completing on time - they can be 2 - 3 years late, and sometimes never finish at all if the money dries up. Even if you have a contract with penalty clauses for late delivery, just try to put in a claim. You will be in court for years.

I am sure there are some that have worked out OK, but trust me, there's a lot more that haven't.

I wouldn't put too much store in them telling you about having a major bank as a partner. They can say anything they like and you have no real way of knowing the truth.

It may be that a bank has provisionally agreed to participate in financing in some way but that doesn't mean they are a full partner or won't back out if the project fails.

I wouldn't even trust your own lawyer on this as most play both sides, especially when there is a lot of cash involved.

My advice is to buy something that is brick and mortar - at least then you have a fighting chance of getting what you pay for.

Edited January 9, 2012 by Mobi

[thaiIand]

only buy from the major developping companies that are full of $ or that have a decent part of the estate finished(usualy the poorer houses first)

The few top companies that keep opening projects left and right all over the country are 100% safe, if they cant sell they'll just finish your house and leave the others half-done untill someone pays.

Been living in mine for 5months and had no neighbor for 2months.. now i have 6.

Edited January 9, 2012 by thaiIand

[Darrel]

"I've just found an amazing new project in Bangkok with amazing price, location and style."

1) presumably it isn't in an area subject to flooding?

2) are you aware that you (farang) cannot buy a house outright in your own name?

3) used property is often available at a big discount to the asking price when you actually get down the nitty-gritty

[chonburi12]

Hi all,

Thanks for your replies,

Sorry, my mistake. I have been to view the property today and they have been built, they are just in the final stages. Quite honestly, I've never seen anything as beautiful in my life!

I am aware that I cannot own a house and land here in Thailand and I am putting it in the wife's name as I trust her 100 per cent (and yes I know all the stories). At the end of the day, I have two large houses in the UK and IF (and this would be a big IF) I split from the mrs, I would want her to have a property of her own. They start from 4.1 mil so its not exactly going to finacially ruin me if it does go tits up.

Thoughts please guys!

[ludditeman]

I would invest the 4MB in a term bank account in Australia (5.5% interest)

And have the wife take out a mortgage to buy the house.

Why risk 4M baht when you don't have to?

[rgs2001uk]

You dont mention the name of the developer or where the house is located.

However for what its worth, over the last 2 or 3 years I have visited many of these new moo baans.

Only one developer sticks out, Propert Perfect they had various projects going on in various parts of the city, two in particular I remember and would consider worthy of further investigation, one located in the Sai Mai area and the other was located near Rom Klao. The choice of materials, fittings and finishings were what impressed me, coupled with the fact, for a moo baan they offered decent sized plots.

The other was located right next door to Big C in Lam Luk Ka area, again decent sized plots and decent material etc used. Dont recall the name of this developer.

That said there were plenty that were crap, cheapest of materials and fittings.

The other factor that impressed me, the width of the roads, these werent your normal rabbit hutches piled on top of each other, the ususal 56/60 tw 160s/m with a 5 or 6 million price tag.

Property Perfect were also prepared to give a discount and pay for all removal expenses.

I am in no way connected with any of these projects, only pass on my observations.

[london]

Chonburi12

MOBI and rgs2001UK are 100% on the mark.

NEVER buy anything that isn't completed....and that means COMPLETELY completed !!

Only buy established and only buy in the best areas.

I hope PKRV sees your post as he has very good knowledge, as well as what I have seen rgs2001uk post, as to the better condos.

Don't listen to the agents hype. Thats all it is.

Take a deep breath and look more critically.....particularly the location.

But again, DON'T BUY ANYTHING UNLESS ITS COMPLETED !!

[Darrel]

Quite honestly, I've never seen anything as beautiful in my life!

Pictures?

[chonburi12]

Thanks for your advice guys. I have taken your advice on board and will look at the projects more critically.

How do you REALLY know what developers to trust? This company looks like big business and has completed projects all over Thailand. Here is the company website:

http://www.pruksa.com/th/en/search.rhtml#/?st=SearchLocation&sl=38

[rgs2001uk]

Thanks for your advice guys. I have taken your advice on board and will look at the projects more critically.

How do you REALLY know what developers to trust? This company looks like big business and has completed projects all over Thailand. Here is the company website:

http://www.pruksa.co...hLocation&sl=38

The only way to check these places out is to hit the road and visit in person.

Everyday I get brochures for these new builds in the letter box, I call them bog seat material, because thats generally where I read them, everyone of them gets tossed in the bin.

These glossy brochures can be seductive and lure the unwary.

Just about all of these projects are located in the same area, east of the city, they are very liberal with the truth to their exact location.

Its not til you hit the road and visit them you start to be able to sort the wheat from the chaff.

Lets start with location, I mean the location of the moo baan and access to and from it, how close are they to the express way and how easy are they to get to from the express way.

I tried to vist one and couldnt find it, wasnt even sign posted, phoned the girl in the sales office, told her where I was and asked her how to get to the development, she couldnt tell me, didnt even bother trying to find the place.

Next, depending on time of day, these places are bloody murder to try and enter/exit.

Normal office hours are an indication, traffic can be piled up waiting to try and enter/exit.

Now we have found the enterance, here comes the circus in the evening, all these moo baans have security to prevent the hawkers entering, that doesnt prevent them setting up camp at about 4 in the afternoon, som tam sellers, grilled chickem, luk chin etc etc, traffic soon builds up.

Now we have found our moo baan, whats the layout of the village, what facilities are in place, how is the security, what sort of people/vehicles are to be found on the streets, are all the houses residential or have unauthorised businesses been set up?

Off to the sales office, en route, you will see houses in various stages of constructionm these houses will tell you more about the type of work being carried out and the quality to expect from your finsihed product.

You may not know your way round a building site, but you can still get the general idea, how are the materials stored, what state are the tools in, is the site littered with empty lao kao bottles, this is an indication of the type of worker being employed, if they cant take pride in their work area they sure as hell dont give a shit about their work, is there an on site works supervisor in place, someone to talk to about the various parts of the house and options for upgrade.

Now we arrive at the sales office, out comes the site map with the various plots available, some sites are colour coded, so you only have a choice of two or three designs within that area, for example you want house design X, you can only have that in a certain area, even though you have decided you want to live in area Y choose from option A b or C.

Now we go to the showhouse, first problem have a look at the size of the kitchen, most of these house suffer the same problem the kitchens are tiny, a quick check of appliances, American Standard in the toilet?, shoes off and into the shower area, is it large enough for you to shower in?

What options are available for tiling, lets assume its laminate upstairs, am I allowed to upgrade to marble or granite?

Everyone of these houses have restrictions, they will sell you the basic house only, any alterations can only be done after you have bought.

So for example if you want to extend the kitchen you must buy the house and then extend, they wont build you a house with an extended kitchen.

What exactly is included in the price, curtain fittings, ac units etc etc?

From what I have observed, anything sub 4 million isnt woth buying, I am looking at a brochure now, 3 bedroom 2 bathroom double storey house, it tells me its 135 s/m, I know thats a lie because they include the size of the car park area in the house size, but never mind creative advertising.

If you start at 5 million, you will get a land area of about 60tw, all right for an entry level house on a decent moo baan, 6 or 7 million will get you a nice place on a larger plot with a larger house, probably less than 100 tw and about 200 s/m house, and for 8-10 million you can get a really nice house.

The above may be a shock to some, believe me, these are average prices for average moo baans, you can get cheaper, but you get what you pay for.

For those with plenty of money, have a look at whats available up beside the airport on the expressway, places like Greenville spring to mind.

For those with even more money, get across the river to the west of the city.

Its only my personal opinion, but I wouldnt touch anything at less than at least 4 million, and probably wouldnt consider anything less than at least 5.

Your wants and opinions may well differ from mine, if you want cheap poorly construceted houses on postage size plots of land head up Rang Sit way, the klong is lined with sun 4 million moo baans.

Another indicator many fail to notice, how many for sale signs are there in the front yard of the houses?

Why would someone be wanting to sell a house thats only been lived in for 6 months at the most?

[PattayaPhom]

I wouldn't buy anything that isn't already built. There are far too many horror stories about folk who did exactly what you are thinking of doing.

These developers also have a terrible reputation for not completing on time - they can be 2 - 3 years late, and sometimes never finish at all if the money dries up. Even if you have a contract with penalty clauses for late delivery, just try to put in a claim. You will be in court for years.

I am sure there are some that have worked out OK, but trust me, there's a lot more that haven't.

I wouldn't put too much store in them telling you about having a major bank as a partner. They can say anything they like and you have no real way of knowing the truth.

It may be that a bank has provisionally agreed to participate in financing in some way but that doesn't mean they are a full partner or won't back out if the project fails.

I wouldn't even trust your own lawyer on this as most play both sides, especially when there is a lot of cash involved.

My advice is to buy something that is brick and mortar - at least then you have a fighting chance of getting what you pay for.

Thats simply not true..............your seriously saying that there are many more uncompleted houses rather than finished ones.....

[dezy1801]

Thanks for your advice guys. I have taken your advice on board and will look at the projects more critically.

How do you REALLY know what developers to trust? This company looks like big business and has completed projects all over Thailand. Here is the company website:

http://www.pruksa.co...hLocation&sl=38

Is it an investment you are looking for? Does it have to be in Thailand? I have a better way to invest the 4million baht if your interested PM me I will send you a link to where I have invested a good bit of money with very good returns much better than in Thailand and any bank.

[Mobi]

I wouldn't buy anything that isn't already built. There are far too many horror stories about folk who did exactly what you are thinking of doing.

These developers also have a terrible reputation for not completing on time - they can be 2 - 3 years late, and sometimes never finish at all if the money dries up. Even if you have a contract with penalty clauses for late delivery, just try to put in a claim. You will be in court for years.

I am sure there are some that have worked out OK, but trust me, there's a lot more that haven't.

I wouldn't put too much store in them telling you about having a major bank as a partner. They can say anything they like and you have no real way of knowing the truth.

It may be that a bank has provisionally agreed to participate in financing in some way but that doesn't mean they are a full partner or won't back out if the project fails.

I wouldn't even trust your own lawyer on this as most play both sides, especially when there is a lot of cash involved.

My advice is to buy something that is brick and mortar - at least then you have a fighting chance of getting what you pay for.

Thats simply not true..............your seriously saying that there are many more uncompleted houses rather than finished ones.....

To clarify.... 'there's a lot more that haven't' is as far as farangs are concerned.

The vast majority of houses in Thailand are bought by Thais and whether or not they paid up front prior to completion, I am sure a vast majority were duly finished, per contact, though I'll warrant that even in the Thai market, there have been many that were not delivered on time, and even some that were never delivered.

But a farang buying a house in Thailand is like an innocent to the slaughter and developers see them coming, hence the high number that end up getting messed around by very late delivery and also by no delivery at all.

As others have said, the agents are full of BS, they can say whatever they like with impunity and there is no statutory controls on their sales techniques and modus operandi.

Most lawyers are not a lot better.

It is for this reason that I advise anyone buying a house to only go for those which have been built, and also, as others have implied, ensure that all the roads, services etc have been completed and are up and running.

[chonburi12]

I went to talk to the sales lady today regarding the above project. For 4.7 mil it basically comes with nothing, no built in air con, furniture etc etc - just the house.

Is this normal or do most moo barns come without furniture?

rgs2001uk - good advice, everything was colourcoded depending on location. They didn't even mention upgrading or building anything extra for me, it was just a case of: 'this is the house you'll get, take it or leave it'.

[thaiIand]

moobaans never come with anything. Just basic house finition and usualy bathrooms are done to a basic level. Only condos are furnished. thats why most houses for rent look like shitholes unless they are priced at 100k+. Thais have to furnish it themselves and they usualy just put some random crap from tesco/makro

The company you're looking at is well established, full of money and completes many housing projects every year. They've just finished a project 200meters from here." American cottages"

Edited January 10, 2012 by thaiIand

[rgs2001uk]

I went to talk to the sales lady today regarding the above project. For 4.7 mil it basically comes with nothing, no built in air con, furniture etc etc - just the house.

Is this normal or do most moo barns come without furniture?

rgs2001uk - good advice, everything was colourcoded depending on location. They didn't even mention upgrading or building anything extra for me, it was just a case of: 'this is the house you'll get, take it or leave it'.

You are buying four walls and a roof, anything exrta is a bonus, the attitude is correct, get out of line, there are plenty more waiting to take your place.

I dont know if you read Thai or not, google Land And House Thailand, for an overview of whats available, 4 million 56tw out Bang Na way, may well be sold out.

You have set the benchmark with what you saw, 4.7 million, now go and compare this with what else is available out there.

I urge you to slow down and hit the road, forum rules prevent me from saying more.