How To Meet Normal Thai Gays In A 'Straight' Bar

[LeCharivari]

PE, I'm afraid you'll have to blame my memory as I recalled those particular posts as I replied to them both (although I did check your posts to make sure I was correct!) and so was rather surprised by your current view. I don't think my getting out more would help me to see "the general 'dissonance' and covert attitudes" that you have observed as after nearly 20 years here I doubt if I would see much which would surprise me (although I avoid Bangkok and have no experience of any of Thailand's "major institutions").

If you're current boyfriend is 23 and "never asks for money" then that would seem to contradict your " Here, you pay the BF's bills and family bills." I don't see how you can have it both ways - either he does or he doesn't. As for "imbalances", how could there not be with such an age gap wherever he comes from? He's young, you're old (no offence, the same applies to my partner and I), he's working and you're not, etc, etc.

Do you honestly think that if you went to a similar sauna in the UK or any where else you'd be made any more welcome? I can't say as I've got no relevant experience, but I really doubt it; you can't blame the Thais for that - its anno domino that's the culprit.

Old Bill? No, not a policeman, he was the famous cartoon character created by Capt Bruce Bairnsfather, WWI's most famous cartoonist. The character was used, dressed in a special constable's uniform, in a series of 1917 advertisements headed "Old Bill says ... walls have ears ... loose lips sink ships "... etc, and one theory is that the "Old Bill" term stems from that. Don't let it be said that TV's anything but informative!

[Ijustwannateach]

Paul, all of this is getting kind of off-topic here, but I feel your pain... however, I would maintain that the issue isn't 'they don't want us here'. There are perfectly decent guys around who behave in perfectly decent ways. Maybe a question for you is *why* you stayed in relationships that continued to be so unrewarding, so one-sided. There may be a parallel to why you wound up attracting guys who expected those kinds of dynamics. I wish the best for you, but I fear that if you went somewhere else you would find yourself repeating the same kinds of situations until you are ready to be responsible for your part in them and understanding what is happening.

I don't know what to say about your specific sauna experience. Different venues have different characters; some of them are less welcoming to those who are older, whether Thai or foreigner. Your mood at the time you're there, who else is there, what day of the week or time of night- all of these can make a big difference to how you feel about being in those kinds of places. I have found myself very welcome at some times in some places, and other times felt like I was invisible. But I know a LOT of it also depends on my mood, and it's not a good thing to go out when you're already feeling down or insecure.

To be honest, I have often found that earlier in an evening, at any kind of venue, the types who might make a point of pointing me out ('look at the foreigner over there') - even if it seems a bit jokey and rude at the time- wind up being the ones who actually really want more attention from me. They're not always able to take responsibility for that in front of their friends, of course.

I'd have to say, that if your tastes run to exceptionally young guys, you are not going to find things as easy as with guys who are closer to your age, and it's not only 'age-bias' but also maturity. Maybe you should go easier on yourself and look around for what kind of people you can find in the 30-40 zone (whether for flings or longer relationships)? You might be very pleasantly surprised.

And stupid maneuvers like bad short term service from taxis aren't confined to foreigners, tourists, or older people- I wouldn't take it personally.