Why Its Wise To Wear Body Armour

[wana]

i wonder if it was cold here would more thais wear safety gear on bikes ?

I understand where you are coming from. Today I rode the 14 km to Hang Dong wearing shorts and running shoes. But, I had on my good helmet and my body armour jacket. I don't notice the heat if I'm doing over 40 kph, but sure feel it when I stop at a traffic light.

As far as Thais and safety gear is concerned I can't recall ever seeing it. And, what DOES amuse me is they will wear a face mask to stop some fictious germ, but will not wear a helmet.

Please don't paint our hosts with such a wide brush. The Thais I ride with all wear proper riding gear...

again youve taken a tiny minority to prove your own point ,a few rich thais riding top end motorcyles does not mean most

thais wear safety gear

im sure if you open your eyes sometime you will see the majority or riders wear no body protection and many dont even see that value

of wearing a cheap helmet

being fined a 100 thb is more worrying than having your head smashed open in an accident

for a lot of thai bike users

[BigBikeBKK]

i wonder if it was cold here would more thais wear safety gear on bikes ?

I understand where you are coming from. Today I rode the 14 km to Hang Dong wearing shorts and running shoes. But, I had on my good helmet and my body armour jacket. I don't notice the heat if I'm doing over 40 kph, but sure feel it when I stop at a traffic light.

As far as Thais and safety gear is concerned I can't recall ever seeing it. And, what DOES amuse me is they will wear a face mask to stop some fictious germ, but will not wear a helmet.

Please don't paint our hosts with such a wide brush. The Thais I ride with all wear proper riding gear...

again youve taken a tiny minority to prove your own point ,a few rich thais riding top end motorcyles does not mean most

thais wear safety gear

im sure if you open your eyes sometime you will see the majority or riders wear no body protection and many dont even see that value

of wearing a cheap helmet

being fined a 100 thb is more worrying than having your head smashed open in an accident

for a lot of thai bike users

I'm not proving any point, I'm just saying we shouldn't make generalizations as most Thais I know who ride big bikes wear proper gear.

For the poor who haul their families around on scooters I don't think safety equipment is even a consideration.

Hell, seems many of them can't even afford to keep their headlights operational! (Yet they can still buy gas... what's up with that?!?!)

[barefoot1988]

The key of wearing proper gears to me is having a top box. Used to dress up all nice except boots when riding in singapore where i have a good old translap with a h&p topbox. Always hated boots, make my shifting and rear braking insensitive. Kind of lazy to carry al equipment around without the box. Wearing mesh jackets are actually cooler than not wearing any, protecting from the strong sun burns

[IanForbes]

I agree with Wana that MOST Thais don't wear protective clothing... except for the sun. However, I will agree that the real Thai riders on big bikes most often wear protective clothing. Those guys can do things on bikes that I wouldn't even dream of. And, It's rather embarrassing when a granny on a Honda scooter goes zipping by me on my D-tracker when we are on some bush road in the mountains. I've give up caring what I look like or how I appear to others.

[wantan]

Most Thais would not wear safety gear even if you would donate it to them for free. Too hot, too uncomfortable, too much time needed to put it on, nowhere to leave the stuff while shopping, fear of looking silly... Most women are more concerned about getting dark, so they put a jacket on for sun protection.

99,9% of the people do short trips and city commuting. They do not make long trips on "Big Bikes". And its easier to pray to Lord Buddha for staying alive. This offers the most powerful protection money can't buy.

Of course its the same with most Farangs riding in LOS

[BigBikeBKK]

Most Thais would not wear safety gear even if you would donate it to them for free. Too hot, too uncomfortable, too much time needed to put it on, nowhere to leave the stuff while shopping, fear of looking silly... Most women are more concerned about getting dark, so they put a jacket on for sun protection.

99,9% of the people do short trips and city commuting. They do not make long trips on "Big Bikes". And its easier to pray to Lord Buddha for staying alive. This offers the most powerful protection money can't buy.

Of course its the same with most Farangs riding in LOS

It's apparent you don't tour much. Get out of the Bangkok scooter maze and you'll quickly realize that most Thais and foreigners who tour on big bikes wear proper gear.

[IanForbes]

Most Thais would not wear safety gear even if you would donate it to them for free. Too hot, too uncomfortable, too much time needed to put it on, nowhere to leave the stuff while shopping, fear of looking silly... Most women are more concerned about getting dark, so they put a jacket on for sun protection.

99,9% of the people do short trips and city commuting. They do not make long trips on "Big Bikes". And its easier to pray to Lord Buddha for staying alive. This offers the most powerful protection money can't buy.

Of course its the same with most Farangs riding in LOS

It's apparent you don't tour much. Get out of the Bangkok scooter maze and you'll quickly realize that most Thais and foreigners who tour on big bikes wear proper gear.

I wouldn't disagree with you about the Thais riding touring bikes, but they are FAR from the normal when it comes to motorcycles and scooters in Thailand. Like I said before, Thais grow up on bikes and they can do things on a scooter I wouldn't even dream of. I value my skin too much. Most Thai guys on big bikes have great abilities, and mostly know what they are doing... with one exception, they almost ALWAYS drive beyond their field of vision and at speeds that leave no leeway when the unexpected happens. The motorcycle fatalities in Thailand are proof of that. On any given day anywhere in Thailand I see Thais taking chances that I wouldn't dream of. They pass on blind corners anywhere. They dart between narrowing gaps in the traffic without any thought that one of the vehicle drivers might do the unexpected and cut them off. They ride while talking on a cel phone, and even with children on board not wearing helmets. The list of potential disaster situations is a long one.

I'm too dam_n old and cautious, and even then I get into trouble... as what this topic is all about.

[BigBikeBKK]

Most Thais would not wear safety gear even if you would donate it to them for free. Too hot, too uncomfortable, too much time needed to put it on, nowhere to leave the stuff while shopping, fear of looking silly... Most women are more concerned about getting dark, so they put a jacket on for sun protection.

99,9% of the people do short trips and city commuting. They do not make long trips on "Big Bikes". And its easier to pray to Lord Buddha for staying alive. This offers the most powerful protection money can't buy.

Of course its the same with most Farangs riding in LOS

It's apparent you don't tour much. Get out of the Bangkok scooter maze and you'll quickly realize that most Thais and foreigners who tour on big bikes wear proper gear.

I wouldn't disagree with you about the Thais riding touring bikes, but they are FAR from the normal when it comes to motorcycles and scooters in Thailand. Like I said before, Thais grow up on bikes and they can do things on a scooter I wouldn't even dream of. I value my skin too much. Most Thai guys on big bikes have great abilities, and mostly know what they are doing... with one exception, they almost ALWAYS drive beyond their field of vision and at speeds that leave no leeway when the unexpected happens. The motorcycle fatalities in Thailand are proof of that. On any given day anywhere in Thailand I see Thais taking chances that I wouldn't dream of. They pass on blind corners anywhere. They dart between narrowing gaps in the traffic without any thought that one of the vehicle drivers might do the unexpected and cut them off. They ride while talking on a cel phone, and even with children on board not wearing helmets. The list of potential disaster situations is a long one.

I'm too dam_n old and cautious, and even then I get into trouble... as what this topic is all about.

I don't know the figures but would guess that scooters outnumber big bikes 1000 to 1 in this country.

We need to be clear what we're talking about because scooter safety and big bike safety are two entirely different matters IMO.

[taninthai]

Most Thais would not wear safety gear even if you would donate it to them for free. Too hot, too uncomfortable, too much time needed to put it on, nowhere to leave the stuff while shopping, fear of looking silly... Most women are more concerned about getting dark, so they put a jacket on for sun protection.

99,9% of the people do short trips and city commuting. They do not make long trips on "Big Bikes". And its easier to pray to Lord Buddha for staying alive. This offers the most powerful protection money can't buy.

Of course its the same with most Farangs riding in LOS

It's apparent you don't tour much. Get out of the Bangkok scooter maze and you'll quickly realize that most Thais and foreigners who tour on big bikes wear proper gear.

I wouldn't disagree with you about the Thais riding touring bikes, but they are FAR from the normal when it comes to motorcycles and scooters in Thailand. Like I said before, Thais grow up on bikes and they can do things on a scooter I wouldn't even dream of. I value my skin too much. Most Thai guys on big bikes have great abilities, and mostly know what they are doing... with one exception, they almost ALWAYS drive beyond their field of vision and at speeds that leave no leeway when the unexpected happens. The motorcycle fatalities in Thailand are proof of that. On any given day anywhere in Thailand I see Thais taking chances that I wouldn't dream of. They pass on blind corners anywhere. They dart between narrowing gaps in the traffic without any thought that one of the vehicle drivers might do the unexpected and cut them off. They ride while talking on a cel phone, and even with children on board not wearing helmets. The list of potential disaster situations is a long one.

I'm too dam_n old and cautious, and even then I get into trouble... as what this topic is all about.

Off coarse and I suppose farang never do any of this every day I see farang on bike in just shorts and that's it riding like a lunatic and farang do not have the excuse that they have no money to buy the gear

Edited February 16, 2012 by taninthai

[wantan]

Most Thais would not wear safety gear even if you would donate it to them for free. Too hot, too uncomfortable, too much time needed to put it on, nowhere to leave the stuff while shopping, fear of looking silly... Most women are more concerned about getting dark, so they put a jacket on for sun protection.

99,9% of the people do short trips and city commuting. They do not make long trips on "Big Bikes". And its easier to pray to Lord Buddha for staying alive. This offers the most powerful protection money can't buy.

Of course its the same with most Farangs riding in LOS

It's apparent you don't tour much. Get out of the Bangkok scooter maze and you'll quickly realize that most Thais and foreigners who tour on big bikes wear proper gear.

Most Thais don't tour on their bikes, they take tha bus for that. You seem to know very little about LOS. So, if most Thais don't tour on bikes and not even own big bikes its obvious that most Thais do not wear safety gear and wouldn't do it, even if its for free.

Tony and all the other "I-have-the-biggest-people": This forum is named "Bikes in Thailand", not "Touring on Big Bikes in Thailand".

[wana]

thats a good point about the money ,how many times do you see a thai rider riding dow the road with his helmet in the front basket of his motorbike

just in case he sees the police checking for helmets ,then he can put it on and ride through the checkpoint (100 thb still in the wallet )

and take off that silly helmet and put it back in the basket where it belongs

i doubt they would wear ,carry ,walk around with safety gear even if honda/yamaha gave it free with every scooter sold

of course the rich thais that can afford to go touring on superbikes can get it but how many thais are rich enough to own a superbike ??

probably less than 10% of the population are that wealthy (guessing around 6 million? ) ,and of that 10 % (6 million ) how many actually buy a super bike for a few hundred grand ??

probably most will buy a car or a pimped out pickup truck as seems so fashionable thesedays

so in the end i would conclude that more than 95% of thai riders dont dress appropriately or safely to be on a motorcyle or scooter thats capable of maybe100 or 120 km ph

[Sydneycraig]

So what are the best hot weather options that are easy to put on... One of those mesh body armor jackets... Gloves and covered shoes ... Kevlar jeans for longer rides?!

[BigBikeBKK]

Most Thais would not wear safety gear even if you would donate it to them for free. Too hot, too uncomfortable, too much time needed to put it on, nowhere to leave the stuff while shopping, fear of looking silly... Most women are more concerned about getting dark, so they put a jacket on for sun protection.

99,9% of the people do short trips and city commuting. They do not make long trips on "Big Bikes". And its easier to pray to Lord Buddha for staying alive. This offers the most powerful protection money can't buy.

Of course its the same with most Farangs riding in LOS

It's apparent you don't tour much. Get out of the Bangkok scooter maze and you'll quickly realize that most Thais and foreigners who tour on big bikes wear proper gear.

I wouldn't disagree with you about the Thais riding touring bikes, but they are FAR from the normal when it comes to motorcycles and scooters in Thailand. Like I said before, Thais grow up on bikes and they can do things on a scooter I wouldn't even dream of. I value my skin too much. Most Thai guys on big bikes have great abilities, and mostly know what they are doing... with one exception, they almost ALWAYS drive beyond their field of vision and at speeds that leave no leeway when the unexpected happens. The motorcycle fatalities in Thailand are proof of that. On any given day anywhere in Thailand I see Thais taking chances that I wouldn't dream of. They pass on blind corners anywhere. They dart between narrowing gaps in the traffic without any thought that one of the vehicle drivers might do the unexpected and cut them off. They ride while talking on a cel phone, and even with children on board not wearing helmets. The list of potential disaster situations is a long one.

I'm too dam_n old and cautious, and even then I get into trouble... as what this topic is all about.

Off coarse and I suppose farang never do any of this every day I see farang on bike in just shorts and that's it riding like a lunatic and farang do not have the excuse that they have no money to buy the gear

The squids racing around on sport bikes in flip flops and shorts are mostly lunatic tourists in places like Pattaya and Patong-

I don't think they are representative of those of us who live here and tour thousands of kilometers every year without incident. Get away from the tourist ghettos and head to Thailand's real motorcycle roads and the vast majority of the bikers you will encounter, both Thai and foreign are wearing proper gear and are not riding like maniacs.

Edited February 16, 2012 by BigBikeBKK

[BigBikeBKK]

Most Thais would not wear safety gear even if you would donate it to them for free. Too hot, too uncomfortable, too much time needed to put it on, nowhere to leave the stuff while shopping, fear of looking silly... Most women are more concerned about getting dark, so they put a jacket on for sun protection.

99,9% of the people do short trips and city commuting. They do not make long trips on "Big Bikes". And its easier to pray to Lord Buddha for staying alive. This offers the most powerful protection money can't buy.

Of course its the same with most Farangs riding in LOS

It's apparent you don't tour much. Get out of the Bangkok scooter maze and you'll quickly realize that most Thais and foreigners who tour on big bikes wear proper gear.

Most Thais don't tour on their bikes, they take tha bus for that. You seem to know very little about LOS. So, if most Thais don't tour on bikes and not even own big bikes its obvious that most Thais do not wear safety gear and wouldn't do it, even if its for free.

Tony and all the other "I-have-the-biggest-people": This forum is named "Bikes in Thailand", not "Touring on Big Bikes in Thailand".

Actually, this thread is about body armor and what can happen when you don't wear it.

If you'd like to start another thread about scooter accidents by all means have at it

Edited February 16, 2012 by BigBikeBKK

[Fishenough]

I agree with Wana that MOST Thais don't wear protective clothing... except for the sun. However, I will agree that the real Thai riders on big bikes most often wear protective clothing. Those guys can do things on bikes that I wouldn't even dream of. And, It's rather embarrassing when a granny on a Honda scooter goes zipping by me on my D-tracker when we are on some bush road in the mountains. I've give up caring what I look like or how I appear to others.

Stop showing us pictures of your elbow, it makes me queasy. 20 years of fast backroads riding and it's awesome when Granny on a 20 year old scoot passes by!

So what are the best hot weather options that are easy to put on... One of those mesh body armor jackets... Gloves and covered shoes ... Kevlar jeans for longer rides?!

There are mesh jacket and mesh armor, some mesh jacket come with removable wind and insulating layers. Pick a light color, I found my ventilated black leather jacket got very hot when sitting still for just a short time. All go on quite easily, and they do no good sitting at home. In the warm season finger-less gloves are nice, better than no gloves at all. Not that I've had a pair, but friends say there Kevlar jeans are pretty darn warm. Many just use knee pads and good boots, with light pants.

Looks like the Russian in that video wasn't wearing protective gear....

Edited February 16, 2012 by Fishenough

[BigBikeBKK]

I agree with Wana that MOST Thais don't wear protective clothing... except for the sun. However, I will agree that the real Thai riders on big bikes most often wear protective clothing. Those guys can do things on bikes that I wouldn't even dream of. And, It's rather embarrassing when a granny on a Honda scooter goes zipping by me on my D-tracker when we are on some bush road in the mountains. I've give up caring what I look like or how I appear to others.

Stop showing us pictures of your elbow, it makes me queasy. 20 years of fast backroads riding and it's awesome when Granny on a 20 year old scoot passes by!

So what are the best hot weather options that are easy to put on... One of those mesh body armor jackets... Gloves and covered shoes ... Kevlar jeans for longer rides?!

There are mesh jacket and mesh armor, some mesh jacket come with removable wind and insulating layers. Pick a light color, I found my ventilated black leather jacket got very hot when sitting still for just a short time. All go on quite easily, and they do no good sitting at home. In the warm season finger-less gloves are nice, better than no gloves at all. Not that I've had a pair, but friends say there Kevlar jeans are pretty darn warm. Many just use knee pads and good boots, with light pants.

Looks like the Russian in that video wasn't wearing protective gear....

They never do...

[madjbs]

The cheaper mesh jackets are next to useless in a crash. They tend to rip upon impact or simply melt into your road rash, leaving the nurses to pick out bits of plastic from your scars.....Best bet are the higher quality tighter weave mesh jackets with decent textile or leather impact areas.

[wantan]

Most Thais would not wear safety gear even if you would donate it to them for free. Too hot, too uncomfortable, too much time needed to put it on, nowhere to leave the stuff while shopping, fear of looking silly... Most women are more concerned about getting dark, so they put a jacket on for sun protection.

99,9% of the people do short trips and city commuting. They do not make long trips on "Big Bikes". And its easier to pray to Lord Buddha for staying alive. This offers the most powerful protection money can't buy.

Of course its the same with most Farangs riding in LOS

It's apparent you don't tour much. Get out of the Bangkok scooter maze and you'll quickly realize that most Thais and foreigners who tour on big bikes wear proper gear.

Most Thais don't tour on their bikes, they take tha bus for that. You seem to know very little about LOS. So, if most Thais don't tour on bikes and not even own big bikes its obvious that most Thais do not wear safety gear and wouldn't do it, even if its for free.

Tony and all the other "I-have-the-biggest-people": This forum is named "Bikes in Thailand", not "Touring on Big Bikes in Thailand".

Actually, this thread is about body armor and what can happen when you don't wear it.

If you'd like to start another thread about scooter accidents by all means have at it

?

OK, no chance to understand this, its "the world of Tony" again

[BigBikeBKK]

The cheaper mesh jackets are next to useless in a crash. They tend to rip upon impact or simply melt into your road rash, leaving the nurses to pick out bits of plastic from your scars.....Best bet are the higher quality tighter weave mesh jackets with decent textile or leather impact areas.

Agree- for a low speed tumble the armor in a cheap mesh jacket can offer some good protection, but if you slide down the road or track in cheap mesh it comes apart quite easily and doesn't offer any protection from road rash.

[BigBikeBKK]

?

OK, no chance to understand this, its "the world of Tony" again

Perhaps if you took a moment to read the title of this thread it might assist you in staying on topic?

Why Its Wise To Wear Body ArmourAccident in Kanchanaburi

Road rash hurts! And here in the tropics, it can kill you. I prefer to wear good gear and arrive sweaty and undamaged, but that's just me

[Fishenough]

The cheaper mesh jackets are next to useless in a crash. They tend to rip upon impact or simply melt into your road rash, leaving the nurses to pick out bits of plastic from your scars.....Best bet are the higher quality tighter weave mesh jackets with decent textile or leather impact areas.

I'd always believed that until the ex lowsided hard at 55 - 60 km and slid on her shoulder and elbow for quite some distance, the 2000 b mesh jacket held up very well! She felt that with out the pad, her shoulder would have been badly hurt with the first impact.The cheapie glove she wore downright dissolved, the palm material was totally gone, but her hand was only redden with no broken skin. Any gear is worlds better then no gear.

Edited February 16, 2012 by Fishenough

[BigBikeBKK]

The cheaper mesh jackets are next to useless in a crash. They tend to rip upon impact or simply melt into your road rash, leaving the nurses to pick out bits of plastic from your scars.....Best bet are the higher quality tighter weave mesh jackets with decent textile or leather impact areas.

I'd always believed that until the ex lowsided hard at 55 - 60 km and slid on her shoulder and elbow for quite some distance, the 2000 b mesh jacket held up very well! She felt that with out the pad, her shoulder would have been badly hurt with the first impact.The cheapie glove she wore downright dissolved, the palm material was totally gone, but her hand was only redden with no broken skin. Any gear is worlds better then no gear.

Well said! I own but have never crashed in mesh, but I have seen friends go down on both road and track in mesh jackets and the results weren't very pretty. Then again, they'd certainly have been WORSE off if they'd been wearing no jackets at all, so yes, have to agree with you that any gear is better than no gear!

Edited February 16, 2012 by BigBikeBKK

[wantan]

?

OK, no chance to understand this, its "the world of Tony" again

Perhaps if you took a moment to read the title of this thread it might assist you in staying on topic?

Why Its Wise To Wear Body ArmourAccident in Kanchanaburi

And? Off topic? Who? I?

Sorry Tony, i seriously think somthing is wrong with you.

[madjbs]

The cheaper mesh jackets are next to useless in a crash. They tend to rip upon impact or simply melt into your road rash, leaving the nurses to pick out bits of plastic from your scars.....Best bet are the higher quality tighter weave mesh jackets with decent textile or leather impact areas.

I'd always believed that until the ex lowsided hard at 55 - 60 km and slid on her shoulder and elbow for quite some distance, the 2000 b mesh jacket held up very well! She felt that with out the pad, her shoulder would have been badly hurt with the first impact.The cheapie glove she wore downright dissolved, the palm material was totally gone, but her hand was only redden with no broken skin. Any gear is worlds better then no gear.

That's good, what brand of jacket was that? I am looking for some cheaper decent gear for my girlfriend. The jacket she has now is completely useless in my opinion, only soft pads in the shoulders and elbows and very light open mesh everywhere else. Ok, so it better than nothing but still not up to the job....

[IanForbes]

Actually, I just posted this topic as a "slight" reminder of what can happen to anyone at any time when riding in Thailand... as glorious as it is. I've ridden a LOT of miles not wearing anything but shorts, sandals and a helmet of questionable reliability. Eventually the odds catch up to you and the unexpected happens. I continually dread going around blind corners with the understanding that ANYTHING and EVERYTHING can be just out of sight around the next bend. I get passed by old ladies on scooters all the time and I still won't ride beyond my field of vision. Even though I know I'm capable of riding faster around blind corners I've experienced far too many times when the unexpected happened. In those situations I just thank my experience for keeping me somewhat safe. Even the corner I ride around every day has given me some near misses. Construction has left debris on the road and it's a little unsettling when your tires slide a bit on fresh gravel or sand on the road.

I didn't want to get in a pissing match about what is better or worse.

[BigBikeBKK]

?

OK, no chance to understand this, its "the world of Tony" again

Perhaps if you took a moment to read the title of this thread it might assist you in staying on topic?

Why Its Wise To Wear Body ArmourAccident in Kanchanaburi

And? Off topic? Who? I?

Sorry Tony, i seriously think somthing is wrong with you.

I'm not the one who's "driven by cheese"...

Do you have ANYTHING to contribute to this thread that is remotely related to the topic, which, in case you missed it, is "

Why Its Wise To Wear Body Armour

"

Speaking of Body Armor, I brought back some Bohn Bodyguard Adventure Pants from my last trip home and wear them under Cortech CPX Cargo Pants and feel the combination of armor and in the knees, hips, shin, thighs and tailbone combined with the Kevlar® Armortex® panels in the pants offer a pretty good combination of protection, yet you can't tell I'm wearing armor- pretty cool

+

[thai4me]

Other than economic reasons, I guess attitude and priorities plays an important role here.

Granted that those that ride recreationally on high capacity super bikes will fully suit up for the ride. They have the means to spend on every aspect of protection. Some will say that the protective gear cost more than a small commuter scooter.

For the majority of the less fortunate commuter bikers, basic protection can be had for a modest cost. It boils down to attitude and priorities. Granted that short trips to the shop renders suiting up cumbersome. The hot tropics does not help either. But if you fear getting hurt, you should overcome these inconveniences. Some have pointed out that despite owning a helmet, they choose to put in the basket rather on their head.

I have a fellow rider that makes his own knee pads from PVC stuck onto a rubber sheet affixed with Velcro.

So gear according to you ability. Something is better than nothing in a crash.

[mcgriffith]

I'm just glad that Ian lived to tell the tale.

[Beardog]

Sorry to hear the unexpected got you Ian. motor oil has to be the worst next to black ice in cold country. It always seems to get you when you let you guard down . at least it wasn't your new ride. Hope you heal quick! & use some of that bactroban as posted earlier. best stuff for promoting healing. Used 4 tubes & my girl used a couple to heal a 80 kilo accident on my Kawi from listening to her raggin on as I stopped to quick & hit sand. Gear left at home in sandals & shorts. my t-shit was tucked in my shorts. We both looked like zombies. she got knees & hands -I got knees 1 hand ass right leg ankle burned up my foot & toes from the exhaust landing on my foot. & elbows. The helmets held thank god.Its true we take things for granted when on a small scooter & sometimes on a bigger bike since it is so dam_n hot in leathers or full gear Hope you recover quick so you can tour again!

Barry

Edited February 16, 2012 by Beardog

[villagefarang]

And next time Ian, wear some underwear.