Uk Visiting Visa Refused

[daniel2183]

hi guys,

My wife recently got refused a uk visiting visa . they said that because she has overstayed a visa a few years back when she went to Spain they thought she might do the same again. I was thinking about appealing against the decision but just wondered if anyone had any advice ? obviously they need to know shes not going to do the same again! but how do I prove that she wont?

thanks

[beano2274]

Did she put the details on the application form and give a reason for her overstay?

It is gonna be very tough to prove that she will come back unless she had a good reason to overstay in Spain (like illness). The problem is if you ask for a review you might have to gain more evidence to show them that she has more reasons to return now. If you reapply and she gets rejected again, it is another 3800baht down the drain.

I hope the guys on here can help you, good luck

[VisasPlus]

You need to post the refusal notice (GV51), blanking out or removing the personal details. Once we have seen this, then we will be able to give you a better idea off whether an appeal might succeed or not. Remember that you only have 28 days to appeal ( it was a "family visit " application ? ).

Did she, as beano2274 asks, give details of the previous refusal on the application form ? Why did she overstay, and for how long ? Did she leave Spain voluntarily, or was she deported/removed ?

[daniel2183]

I am in the UK at the moment so I will see if I can get a copy to post on here.

I would be up for her wearing an ankle bracelet like those asbo kids :-D but dont think that is gonna work. Do you think it would make a lot of difference if I went out there to try and convince them?

[VisasPlus]

I am in the UK at the moment so I will see if I can get a copy to post on here.

I would be up for her wearing an ankle bracelet like those asbo kids :-D but dont think that is gonna work. Do you think it would make a lot of difference if I went out there to try and convince them?

It would make no difference at all as the Embassy won't talk with you. There is, unfortunately, no facility for applicants or sponsors to talk with the ECOs. If the ECO wanted to talk with you, or the applicant, then they can call you, but it doesn't work the other way round.

If you cannot post the GV51, then write the wording on here ( not all of it, just the refusal reasons ). You are limited to 28 days to appeal, so the sooner we know the reasons, the better. Plus the answers to the other questions I asked.

[daniel2183]

The main reason was she overstayed a previous visa in Spain by about a month but stupidly before handling her passport in she ripped the page out !!!!!! Silly <deleted>##er. Another one was I don't tell the, our plans for when she's here!! I personally don't see the problem with that!

[beano2274]

The page she ripped out was that in the passport she gave in at UKVFS?

If so, the passport is invalid, and they will try to find out things about her as it poses the question, why did she rip a page out?

You have to give them an itinerary it helps the application. I also make an expenditure estimate to prove that funds stated cover the costs of the trip.

I just give them the basics, I read on here what is required and ask questions where necessary. Maybe I am lucky, but have applied for 5 visas (wife and Mother in law, 2 x Schengen, 3 x UK) and all have been accepted.

Edited March 18, 2012 by beano2274

[VisasPlus]

You said:

"My wife recently got refused a uk visiting visa . they said that because she has overstayed a visa a few years back when she went to Spain they thought she might do the same again. I was thinking about appealing against the decision but just wondered if anyone had any advice ? obviously they need to know shes not going to do the same again! but how do I prove that she wont?"

Can I ask a few questions ?

Did she answer yes on the application form to the question about being refused entry to any country ?

Was she married to you when she overstayed in Spain ?

How long did she overstay ?

If she answered the questions truthfully, and if she was single at the time it hapopened, then I think the refusal could be contested. It would be helpful if you could post the refusal notice ( deleting personal information ) or post the full reasons for refusal for us to comment on.

Edited March 18, 2012 by VisasPlus

[daniel2183]

You said:

"My wife recently got refused a uk visiting visa . they said that because she has overstayed a visa a few years back when she went to Spain they thought she might do the same again. I was thinking about appealing against the decision but just wondered if anyone had any advice ? obviously they need to know shes not going to do the same again! but how do I prove that she wont?"

Can I ask a few questions ?

Did she answer yes on the application form to the question about being refused entry to any country ?

Was she married to you when she overstayed in Spain ?

How long did she overstay ?

If she answered the questions truthfully, and if she was single at the time it hapopened, then I think the refusal could be contested. It would be helpful if you could post the refusal notice ( deleting personal information ) or post the full reasons for refusal for us to comment on.

Did she answer yes on the application form to the question about being refused entry to any country ? no she didn't

Was she married to you when she overstayed in Spain ? no

How long did she overstay ? 1 month but as shes ripped the page out she cant prove it to the embassy.

I dont have a copy of the refusal form as im in the uk at the moment but i got her to email some of it.

Your application

You have applied for an entry Clearance to visit the United Kingdom Immigration Rules.

The Decision

You have applied for a visa to visit your husband ( a british Citizen ) for a period of 2 months

One of your previous passports that you were issued a Schengen Visa by the spainish authorities in 2007. However as this passport has been mutilated with a page torn out - the date of your return journey from Spain to thailand is not Clear.

When interviewed to clarify details of your travel history, you explained that you travelled to spain in 2007 to visit former boyfriend. Although you initially stated that your son had ripped a page from your passport you subsequently admitted that you had deliberately removed this page in order to conceal details of your previous travel - in particular the fact that you had overstayed the time limit attached to your spanish Visa.

The fact that you have previously overstayed a visa issued by another European country - and that you have taken deliberate steps to try to conceal this leads me to question the likelihood that you will leave the Uk after the limited period you have stated on your application form.

Edited March 18, 2012 by daniel2183

[VisasPlus]

You said:

"My wife recently got refused a uk visiting visa . they said that because she has overstayed a visa a few years back when she went to Spain they thought she might do the same again. I was thinking about appealing against the decision but just wondered if anyone had any advice ? obviously they need to know shes not going to do the same again! but how do I prove that she wont?"

Can I ask a few questions ?

Did she answer yes on the application form to the question about being refused entry to any country ?

Was she married to you when she overstayed in Spain ?

How long did she overstay ?

If she answered the questions truthfully, and if she was single at the time it hapopened, then I think the refusal could be contested. It would be helpful if you could post the refusal notice ( deleting personal information ) or post the full reasons for refusal for us to comment on.

Did she answer yes on the application form to the question about being refused entry to any country ? no she didn't

Was she married to you when she overstayed in Spain ? no

How long did she overstay ? 1 month but as shes ripped the page out she cant prove it to the embassy.

I dont have a copy of the refusal form as im in the uk at the moment but i got her to email some of it.

Your application

You have applied for an entry Clearance to visit the United Kingdom Immigration Rules.

The Decision

You have applied for a visa to visit your husband ( a british Citizen ) for a period of 2 months

One of your previous passports that you were issued a Schengen Visa by the spainish authorities in 2007. However as this passport has been mutilated with a page torn out - the date of your return journey from Spain to thailand is not Clear.

When interviewed to clarify details of your travel history, you explained that you travelled to spain in 2007 to visit former boyfriend. Although you initially stated that your son had ripped a page from your passport you subsequently admitted that you had deliberately removed this page in order to conceal details of your previous travel - in particular the fact that you had overstayed the time limit attached to your spanish Visa.

The fact that you have previously overstayed a visa issued by another European country - and that you have taken deliberate steps to try to conceal this leads me to question the likelihood that you will leave the Uk after the limited period you have stated on your application form.

Sorry - when I wrote my post I was thinking she had been refused entry to Spain, but she in fact overstayed. My fault.

The fact that she overstayed by a month is really neither here nor there, had she admitted it in a covering letter, or in your supporting letter. The problem now is that she lied in her application when interviewed by the Embassy. Although she subsequently admitted that she overstayed, it is now very difficult to overcome that lie. In reality, the ECO doesn't have to accept anything she says, as the truth, unless is it verifiable. I don't think you would win any appeal (was it a family visit application ?). A new application might succeed if you spell out the whole truth, explaining that the one month overstay was not a massive error in the grand scheme of things, giving the full reasons for that overstay, and saying that the lie is regretted. In addition, you will have to show very good reasons for her to return to Thailand.

[beano2274]

In reality she has lied.

Looking to VISAsPLUS for clarification, could this also get her a ban?

Also the ECO will now know she lied before, what is to stop her doing it again? I think this is gonna go completely pear shaped, but you never know, she might get another chance and do it properly.

Edited March 18, 2012 by beano2274

[daniel2183]

Visas plus = no it was a holiday 6 month visa

Do you think there's much chance of her getting a visa if she applied again? Its looking like its ongoing to be a nightmare. I might just pay a company to do it. On the other hand Would it make much difference if I just scrapped the idea and went for a 2 year settlememt visa ?

[David48]

OP, just using your situation to discuss something of greater consequences of educating Thai people on how to deal with the Western Culture in these types of issues.

Somehow the Thai think that if they didn't admit to it, or remove evidence of it happening (removing the page from the Passport) that it didn't happen.

And then lying to cover up and to not lose face.

Not having a go at your wife ... just relating her story to how it can 'pear shaped' as beano2274 describes it above when there isn't full disclosure with the Visa application.

If you do apply again for a Visiting Visa, really concentrate of a bona fide reason why she will return to Thailand on completion of the Visa.

Good Luck

[daniel2183]

I know if I knew the situation in the first place I would of been all over it in the covering letter ect. I might try again but like u say I need a really good reason for her to return to Thailand. Shes got a kid that's about the best I can think of !

[beano2274]

I know if I knew the situation in the first place I would of been all over it in the covering letter ect. I might try again but like u say I need a really good reason for her to return to Thailand. Shes got a kid that's about the best I can think of !

A kid is no reason to return to Thailand, many women try that and the ECOs know that Grandma or Grandpa will be looking after it

[Basil B]

For many of us we know ripping a page out of ones passport is a very stupid thing to do, no doubt she was advised to do so by some friend who knew no better.

I also suspect that defacing a passport would get her into trouble with the Thai authorities also, presume it was a expired passport and thereby not an offense.

I think you can still apply for settlement though even with this you could find it more difficult, I do recall years ago posters being advised to write letters of apologies,therefore if your wife has not been told she is subject to a ten year ban it would not hurt to write a letter or better still your wife to, apologizing and asking them to clarify that she is not subject to a ten year ban, you may get a reply, if you do and she is not banned I would look at re-applying with a "water tight" application if you can cover every issue raised in the GV51, most important is the reason to return.

And as Beano Say's a child is not likely to be seen as a credible reason, but when you think of it very few people could give a "iron tight" reason to return, and the ECO has to make a decision based on probability, unfortunately Daniel's wife has dug a very big hole for herself to climb out of.

[daniel2183]

I think I will try a holiday visa again but like u say it need to be 100% spot on water tight. Which I think I will properly mess up :-) has anyone every tried any of the visa companies around bkk? I might get someone to do it for me.

[theoldgit]

If you feel you need professional advice I would go to one of the sponsors of this forum, they are both very professional. Difficult to recomend one over the other as they are both very good, the guy at Visa Plus is a retired Immigration Officer with a great deal of experience.

They are both based in Pattaya but I wouldn't recommend any in Bangkok.

[VisasPlus]

I think I will try a holiday visa again but like u say it need to be 100% spot on water tight. Which I think I will properly mess up :-) has anyone every tried any of the visa companies around bkk? I might get someone to do it for me.

Sorry for not replying sooner, but I was otherwise occupied. It will be difficult, as we have all said, to get a visit visa. She has the previous "deception" to overcome. In addition, there seems to be little that can be shown as reasons to return to Thailand. That said, it does depend a lot on how the application is put together.

If you go down the settlement route it could be easier, but the ECO could still refuse an application on the following grounds, if he believed that, for instance, the marriage was entered into just to get entry to the UK ( a marriage of convenience, in effect ) :

320 (11) where the applicant has previously contrived in a significant way to frustrate the intentions of these Rules. Guidance will be published giving examples of circumstances in which an applicant who has previously overstayed, breached a condition attached to his leave, been an Illegal Entrant or used Deception in an application for entry clearance, leave to enter or remain (whether successful or not) is likely to be considered as having contrived in a significant way to frustrate the intentions of these Rules.

There are plenty of visa agencies in Bangkok, but be very careful about who you choose. If possible, use one that is recommended, and don't believe the "no visa, no fee" guarantees. Read the small print.

[ThaiVisaExpress]

We offer a no visa no professional fee service however Tony has already addressed your refusal as above. I cannot recommend a Bangkok agency most are totally Thai owned.