Ten Killed And 52 Injured In Two Upcountry Smash-Ups: Thailand

[MEL1]

I am going to give mel the benifiet as I do not think the trolls we see, would have put in the effort to enlighten others with this info, in a false manner. Thanks for the input and info/sources.

My only disappointment is, I was not surprised at 'mels' input.

Thank you! When it comes to matters of heart, and things I have a great deal of experience about, then I certainly spout out.

It's a shame it's just on passing comments on a website, and isn't presented to those who have real influence.

-mel.

[Mintman]

Wow what a load of rubbish Thai Vehicles are made of inferior steel Just in case you have not been out of Thailand for 30 years You will see these vehicles all over the world including USA,UK,Europe Australia just to mention a few And you really think the Japanese would be allowed to export them No way.I think you will find that most deaths and injuries in Thailand are caused by not wearing seatbelts , high speed and lack of driving skills and not maintaining the vehicles properly nothing to do with the vehicles,Drive Safely....

[MEL1]

As for the Hilux, enjoy the shocking news: http://paultan.org/2...ck-crash-tests/

-mel.

I'm shocked. They didn't test it.

It gets the sane sort of fmvss ratings as the ranger?

The Ranger was tested. Why do you think the Hilux wasn't available for testing?

-mel.

[MEL1]

Wow what a load of rubbish Thai Vehicles are made of inferior steel Just in case you have not been out of Thailand for 30 years You will see these vehicles all over the world including USA,UK,Europe Australia just to mention a few And you really think the Japanese would be allowed to export them No way.I think you will find that most deaths and injuries in Thailand are caused by not wearing seatbelts , high speed and lack of driving skills and not maintaining the vehicles properly nothing to do with the vehicles,Drive Safely....

Oh! I see! The Ford Mondeo and Fiesta are not manufactured in China? They are not made of substandard steels, where I have been and witnessed it?

Believe you me, Mondeo and Fiesta are manuf in China, sold in Asia purporting to meet the same crash standards of the original western design. The Chinese certainly copy and manufacture the same design...... but do you believe for one minute there is no cost cutting in material standards?

No matter driving skills and lack of seat-belt wearing, which I completely agree with you, the vehicles themselves are not crash-worthy as their specifics claim.

Do you get any of my drift?

-mel.

[vijer]

Given that the new Toyota Hilux you buy in Australia is made in Thailand, and Australia has very strict vehicle safety standards, I am not sure what to make of MEL1's posts in this thread.

Exactly my though. Thailand doesn't design and engineer vehicles for Thailand, so all vehicles sold here have the same safety standards as the major markets. The difference is in the road conditions, the poor design of exit/entrances, the poor design of drainage, the poor design of traffic lights, the lack of laws regarding occupants in the rear of pickup trucks, the bad training drivers receive here. Just to name a few problems the contribute to the safety hazards on Thai roads.

Regarding the vehicles sheet metal being crumpled like paper, this isn't because they are using cheaper or thinner metal, it is by design. One reason is weight savings equates to fuel savings. The other reason is because new vehicles are designed to collapse during an impact to absorb the energy of the impact and mitigate transferring this energy to the passengers. In theory this will save the passengers, but of course if you are not wearing a seat belt your just going to be slammed into something hard or thrown out of the vehicle and impact something hard.

[MaxLee]

Passing by a truck is already a dangerous act, especially at night because these dudes just don't appear to be driving straight in the lane, but lose the track every now and then. It appears that these drivers are either drunk or take too much caffein drugs that influence their driving behavior.

Edited March 29, 2012 by MaxLee

[samsiam]

It is sad, of course. But when is Thailand going to grow up regarding passenger and car safety.

I worked in the car industry for 20 years, as a chief designer and safety consultant.

I will advise that these Isuzu pick up trucks, we all know them, are incredibly unsafe in crash situations. The front cab, and rear stowage space are two separate entities, not linked in any structural format way, apart from being seated on a long chassis which will twist and crumple unaccordingly to any impact; front, rear or side impact, and the cab has no strengthening struts whatsoever.

The Toyota vans are made of inferior steels, as are the Isuzus, and have no chance of sustaining impact which pertains to console safety.

Added to that, and until these matters of construction are made illegal, when will Thai authorities realise that 264 people in the back of a truck is a huge safety issue? Would it be seen in the west? - NO WAY! You'd be stopped 100m down the road!

The manufacturers put a big 3.0Ltr engine in these fatal traps, and away you go - no problems..... so they think!

I saw a scrape in a garage, filling station, where at 5mph a Nissan was scraped by an Isuzu 4x4. The Nissan was untouched, but the Isuzu was crumpled to pieces all along one side. It made me shudder, as once the paperwork had been exchanged, 10 got into the Isuzu and off he went, like a cheetah chasing a gazelle.

Until Thailand realises that FMVSS and Euro-Ncap are standards for specific reasons, i.e. passenger safety, we will continue to read about these sad losses.

Thailand needs to create its own crash, safety, and occupant laws to reduce or eliminate such crashes as these. However, they just don't have the knowledge, nor seem to want it - as in most other areas of safety.

How sad!

-mel.

Thailand could not organise a piss up in a brewery.

or a root in a brothel.....wait a minute..

[GentlemanJim]

MEL1

Fascinating info, thanks for the time taken to post. Ignore the baiting posts!

[terryp]

Terrible; sadly it looks like speed was the main culprit mixed with idiocy

[MaxLee]

Terrible; sadly it looks like speed was the main culprit mixed with idiocy

I'd rather say caffein drugs and alcohol in the first place.

[whybother]

They're just warming up for Songkran.

[MEL1]

Given that the new Toyota Hilux you buy in Australia is made in Thailand, and Australia has very strict vehicle safety standards, I am not sure what to make of MEL1's posts in this thread.

Exactly my though. Thailand doesn't design and engineer vehicles for Thailand, so all vehicles sold here have the same safety standards as the major markets. The difference is in the road conditions, the poor design of exit/entrances, the poor design of drainage, the poor design of traffic lights, the lack of laws regarding occupants in the rear of pickup trucks, the bad training drivers receive here. Just to name a few problems the contribute to the safety hazards on Thai roads.

Regarding the vehicles sheet metal being crumpled like paper, this isn't because they are using cheaper or thinner metal, it is by design. One reason is weight savings equates to fuel savings. The other reason is because new vehicles are designed to collapse during an impact to absorb the energy of the impact and mitigate transferring this energy to the passengers. In theory this will save the passengers, but of course if you are not wearing a seat belt your just going to be slammed into something hard or thrown out of the vehicle and impact something hard.

What?

To quote you, "The other reason is because new vehicles are designed to collapse during an impact to absorb the energy of the impact and mitigate transferring this energy to the passengers."

.

Let's get this everybody. Cars are now designed to dissipate load into the occupants...... well that's certainly news to me after 20 years at the top.

Vehicles are not designed to collapse. Let's get that straight for a start.

The longitudinal struts at the front and rear ends of chassis, upon impact, are designed to dissipate loads, prior to the buckets at the pillars, not the ruddy passengers.

Which boat did you get on? 'Cos if you didn't, I'd be booking a ticket right now with your knowledge!

-mel.

[Cholorado]

sounds like some "final destination" type stuff...

[barefoot1988]

Given that the new Toyota Hilux you buy in Australia is made in Thailand, and Australia has very strict vehicle safety standards, I am not sure what to make of MEL1's posts in this thread.

Exactly my though. Thailand doesn't design and engineer vehicles for Thailand, so all vehicles sold here have the same safety standards as the major markets. The difference is in the road conditions, the poor design of exit/entrances, the poor design of drainage, the poor design of traffic lights, the lack of laws regarding occupants in the rear of pickup trucks, the bad training drivers receive here. Just to name a few problems the contribute to the safety hazards on Thai roads.

Regarding the vehicles sheet metal being crumpled like paper, this isn't because they are using cheaper or thinner metal, it is by design. One reason is weight savings equates to fuel savings. The other reason is because new vehicles are designed to collapse during an impact to absorb the energy of the impact and mitigate transferring this energy to the passengers. In theory this will save the passengers, but of course if you are not wearing a seat belt your just going to be slammed into something hard or thrown out of the vehicle and impact something hard.

What?

To quote you, "The other reason is because new vehicles are designed to collapse during an impact to absorb the energy of the impact and mitigate transferring this energy to the passengers."

.

Let's get this everybody. Cars are now designed to dissipate load into the occupants...... well that's certainly news to me after 20 years at the top.

Vehicles are not designed to collapse. Let's get that straight for a start.

The longitudinal struts at the front and rear ends of chassis, upon impact, are designed to dissipate loads, prior to the buckets at the pillars, not the ruddy passengers.

Which boat did you get on? 'Cos if you didn't, I'd be booking a ticket right now with your knowledge!

-mel.

I myself too thought moderns car have crumble zones to absorb shock (the reason why front end often result like smashed soda cans) or something along that line.

I could be wrong and misled by many others from what i read. Its good to read once awhile from the real professional although everything seems really really alien to me.

Honestly, I was alittle annoyed by your comments on asian cars. but after afew searching around with euroncap test on several japanese cars, unfortunately you are right.

And what was surprising was how korean cars fare in the euroncap test. Always thought korean cars are inferior, guess i was all wrong about it.

Edited March 29, 2012 by barefoot1988

[TeddyFlyfisherDavis]

It is sad, of course. But when is Thailand going to grow up regarding passenger and car safety.

I worked in the car industry for 20 years, as a chief designer and safety consultant.

I will advise that these Isuzu pick up trucks, we all know them, are incredibly unsafe in crash situations. The front cab, and rear stowage space are two separate entities, not linked in any structural format way, apart from being seated on a long chassis which will twist and crumple unaccordingly to any impact; front, rear or side impact, and the cab has no strengthening struts whatsoever.

The Toyota vans are made of inferior steels, as are the Isuzus, and have no chance of sustaining impact which pertains to console safety.

Added to that, and until these matters of construction are made illegal, when will Thai authorities realise that 264 people in the back of a truck is a huge safety issue? Would it be seen in the west? - NO WAY! You'd be stopped 100m down the road!

The manufacturers put a big 3.0Ltr engine in these fatal traps, and away you go - no problems..... so they think!

I saw a scrape in a garage, filling station, where at 5mph a Nissan was scraped by an Isuzu 4x4. The Nissan was untouched, but the Isuzu was crumpled to pieces all along one side. It made me shudder, as once the paperwork had been exchanged, 10 got into the Isuzu and off he went, like a cheetah chasing a gazelle.

Until Thailand realises that FMVSS and Euro-Ncap are standards for specific reasons, i.e. passenger safety, we will continue to read about these sad losses.

Thailand needs to create its own crash, safety, and occupant laws to reduce or eliminate such crashes as these. However, they just don't have the knowledge, nor seem to want it - as in most other areas of safety.

How sad!

-mel.

I quite agree with you Mel concerning the less than adequate safety standards on cars & trucks in Thailand.

Just need to look at the photo of this accident in the first post to see that the body is similar to tin foil. The older trucks, especially Isuzu & Toyota, have thicker body steel and although I know the big car companies have redesigned the steel much thinner, in the west it's been improved with other alloys that are proven to make the thinner body stronger.

Is it the greed for profits without concern for physical life that allows these wheeled coffins to be sold in this country? Cars, trucks, etc., are much more expensive in Thailand than in the states, especially used vehicles.. I've thought about selling my 20 year-old-Isuzu truck and getting a newer one but after 2000/2001 the body steel is noticeably thinner.

Can you imagine if they had to salt the roads...? I don't think these cars or trucks would last a couple years they are so thin.

[Mintman]

To Early Not April fools day yet

[chiang mai]

I am going to give mel the benifiet as I do not think the trolls we see, would have put in the effort to enlighten others with this info, in a false manner. Thanks for the input and info/sources.

My only disappointment is, I was not surprised at 'mels' input.

Thank you! When it comes to matters of heart, and things I have a great deal of experience about, then I certainly spout out.

It's a shame it's just on passing comments on a website, and isn't presented to those who have real influence.

-mel.

I'm extremely grateful to read Mel's perspective on this, it makes me think twice about buying a pickup truck and which one I might buy, thanks.

[peecee]

The cops have a lot to answer for, so busy fining people for not wearing helmets but a pickup truck bed full of women and babies is acceptable.

I think my last post referred to this issue quite clearly!

-mel.

Want a medal?

or a clap!

[jackspratt]

The last Hilux tested by ancap gave it 4 stars and that was the 2005 model. What are you basing your Toyota comment on?

Ancap is Asian crash standard safety, it is in no comparison to FMVSS (Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard) nor EuroNcap (European New car Assessment program). Ancap creates its own laws, according to back handers from China and so on. I need say no further.

Of course the rules will be bent in Ancap, to accommodate production and incomes and positions for the politically bent, overseeing the real safety issues.

As for the Hilux, enjoy the shocking news: http://paultan.org/2...ck-crash-tests/

You're in my area of expertise now, so keep'em flying. Asian vehicles are a safety disgrace, and you only have to see the OP to see the resultants.

-mel.

Ancap seems to have nothing to do with Asia standards - it is purely Australia and New Zealand based:

http://www.ancap.com.au/about

Stranger and stranger!

ps "mitigate" does not = "dissipate".

Edited March 30, 2012 by jackspratt

[moe666]

It is sad, of course. But when is Thailand going to grow up regarding passenger and car safety.

I worked in the car industry for 20 years, as a chief designer and safety consultant.

I will advise that these Isuzu pick up trucks, we all know them, are incredibly unsafe in crash situations. The front cab, and rear stowage space are two separate entities, not linked in any structural format way, apart from being seated on a long chassis which will twist and crumple unaccordingly to any impact; front, rear or side impact, and the cab has no strengthening struts whatsoever.

The Toyota vans are made of inferior steels, as are the Isuzus, and have no chance of sustaining impact which pertains to console safety.

Added to that, and until these matters of construction are made illegal, when will Thai authorities realise that 264 people in the back of a truck is a huge safety issue? Would it be seen in the west? - NO WAY! You'd be stopped 100m down the road!

The manufacturers put a big 3.0Ltr engine in these fatal traps, and away you go - no problems..... so they think!

I saw a scrape in a garage, filling station, where at 5mph a Nissan was scraped by an Isuzu 4x4. The Nissan was untouched, but the Isuzu was crumpled to pieces all along one side. It made me shudder, as once the paperwork had been exchanged, 10 got into the Isuzu and off he went, like a cheetah chasing a gazelle.

Until Thailand realises that FMVSS and Euro-Ncap are standards for specific reasons, i.e. passenger safety, we will continue to read about these sad losses.

Thailand needs to create its own crash, safety, and occupant laws to reduce or eliminate such crashes as these. However, they just don't have the knowledge, nor seem to want it - as in most other areas of safety.

How sad!

-mel.

The last time I looked The Chevrolet and Ford Pickup in The US has a seperate cab and rear bed attached to a chassis how does this make an Isuzus less safe. It appears you have an issue with Isuzus that have nothing to do with there construction as it is similar to US built pickups. If I am wrong please enlighten me as many of the trucks built in Thailand are exported worldwide

[necronx99]

The last Hilux tested by ancap gave it 4 stars and that was the 2005 model. What are you basing your Toyota comment on?

Ancap is Asian crash standard safety, it is in no comparison to FMVSS (Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard) nor EuroNcap (European New car Assessment program). Ancap creates its own laws, according to back handers from China and so on. I need say no further.

Of course the rules will be bent in Ancap, to accommodate production and incomes and positions for the politically bent, overseeing the real safety issues.

As for the Hilux, enjoy the shocking news: http://paultan.org/2...ck-crash-tests/

You're in my area of expertise now, so keep'em flying. Asian vehicles are a safety disgrace, and you only have to see the OP to see the resultants.

-mel.

Ancap seems to have nothing to do with Asia standards - it is purely Australia and New Zealand based:

http://www.ancap.com.au/about

Stranger and stranger!

ps "mitigate" does not = "dissipate".

Also a brief look shows similar ratings between ancanp eurocap across a range of models.

Additionally the blanket blasting of asian cars is not backed by eurocap testing where many new models score as well as new euro or us cars.

The hilux is a 7 year old model and it's testing relects that. Only the current top range 4x4 with all options is comparable to the new ranger which until this latest new model scored poorly in euro, us and ancap testing.

The Izusu does appear to be crap, but the extrapolation of this to all asian cars is clearly bs,