Consular Assistance For UK Nationals In Thailand

[fire and ice]

Being British can be a bonus sometimes. However our embassies are some of the worst in the world for what they offer ex-pats or people on holiday abroad. They basically do absolutely nothing for you. If your having issues, medical, law e.t.c. it pays to be a U.S. Aussie, citizen or almost any other nationality!

The population of Australia is only around the size of that of London.

Other Countries are unlikely to act differently, given they're all signatories to the same convention.

At the risk of feeding a troll; you are tripping: http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/[email protected]/0/1647509ef7e25faaca2568a900154b63?OpenDocument

London's population is "about" 22.8 million? Greater London is "about" half that.

Australia's population is 37% of the UK or 44% of England's.

[asdecas]

"Sadly, in the last 12 months, there were 314 reported deaths and 204 cases of Britons in hospital which were notified to us in Thailand. As a proportion of the total numbers of citizens in the country, these are amongst the highest in the world." -- Asif Ahmad, HM Ambassador, UK

... well ... the Ambassador makes clear one point ... Thailand is not the safe place the TAT portrays it in their glowing advertising campaigns ... thank you Mr. Ambassador for being forthright on what Thailand is and is not as a tourist destination.

... Thailand has a place for tourism ... similar to 3rd world travel ... more for adventure tourists, than for families.

... the numbers are what the numbers are ... no spin there.

Of the 314 reported deaths I would like to see a breakdown, by old age, traffic accident, disease, "suicide".

Yes a breakdown of the causes of deaths ( and hospitalisations) would be interesting to see.Personally I am not surprised that the numbers are relatively high given the number of retirees living here and the number of tourists that I have come across who despite having never ridden a motorbike at home ( "they are too dangerous") seem quite happy to rent one here and ride around with no helmet and wearing shorts and flip flops whilst learning to ride "on the fly"

At a considered guess, I would hazard that the majority of Brit deaths, be they accidents, drug- or alcohol-related, suicides or murders, are caused by people leaving their brains either at home or on the plane prior to disembarkation.

[billd766]

One item I did see in William Hague's speech was this

When you reflect that this entire service was provided to British passport holders, every day of the year, week in and week out, at a cost per person of £1.50 a year over the life of a 10-year passport and without burdening the taxpayer.

I wonder where he got the figure of £15 for a 10-year passport from?

[eagleflyinghigh]

So what do you expect ?

You are from a nanny state with free health services for everybody. Now you have to be told that outside your country you have to use common sense and take your responsabilities.

[BWPattaya]

Is this an interview, or an open letter, or a phone conversation. This reads more as an email to embassy staff than an interview. Please don't tell me the Nation just copied and pasted a page from the Embassy website verbatim to their newspaper.

It is a letter written and signed by the UK Ambassador, printed in the Nation today.

[hellodolly]

"Sadly, in the last 12 months, there were 314 reported deaths and 204 cases of Britons in hospital which were notified to us in Thailand. As a proportion of the total numbers of citizens in the country, these are amongst the highest in the world." -- Asif Ahmad, HM Ambassador, UK

... well ... the Ambassador makes clear one point ... Thailand is not the safe place the TAT portrays it in their glowing advertising campaigns ... thank you Mr. Ambassador for being forthright on what Thailand is and is not as a tourist destination.

... Thailand has a place for tourism ... similar to 3rd world travel ... more for adventure tourists, than for families.

... the numbers are what the numbers are ... no spin there.

What are you nuts. Don't you realize that many of those deaths were of expats living here for a long time. Some were tourists who came here for the use of drugs, booze and women.and maybe a few were murdered. Happens back in the UK are you advising people not to go there also.

Idiots like you are trying to make it sound like they were murdered.

[evadgib]

Being British can be a bonus sometimes. However our embassies are some of the worst in the world for what they offer ex-pats or people on holiday abroad. They basically do absolutely nothing for you. If your having issues, medical, law e.t.c. it pays to be a U.S. Aussie, citizen or almost any other nationality!

The population of Australia is only around the size of that of London.

Other Countries are unlikely to act differently, given they're all signatories to the same convention.

At the risk of feeding a troll; you are tripping: http://www.abs.gov.a...63?OpenDocument

London's population is "about" 22.8 million? Greater London is "about" half that.

Australia's population is 37% of the UK or 44% of England's.

That was my point!

Edited April 6, 2012 by evadgib

[Baerboxer]

So what do you expect ?

You are from a nanny state with free health services for everybody. Now you have to be told that outside your country you have to use common sense and take your responsabilities.

No, it's not really free. People in employment pay NHS contributions and Tax at quite large rates. Those unfortunate enough to be unemployed, low income or destitute receive free treatment. It aims to create caring society as distinct from others, where only those with money have access to healthcare. There is also a thriving private healthcare sector in the UK which says something about the "free" option.

Exhibiting common sense and taking responsibility is good advice - wether travelling, living overseas or staying at home. Most Europeans I know, that live outside of their home countries are critical of their Embassy services. In most cases, these people are ones that take responsibility, have common sense but so expect a level and quality of service when needed.

[jalansanitwong]

Being British can be a bonus sometimes. However our embassies are some of the worst in the world for what they offer ex-pats or people on holiday abroad. They basically do absolutely nothing for you. If your having issues, medical, law e.t.c. it pays to be a U.S. Aussie, citizen or almost any other nationality!

The population of Australia is only around the size of that of London.

Other Countries are unlikely to act differently, given they're all signatories to the same convention.

Really ?.Are there 23 million people in London because thats how many are in Australia. In urbanised area i would say both Melbourne and Sydney are far bigger than London.

Apparently the British embassy has over 6 full time field agents working around Thailand and theyre busy. Is this true?.

I get the impression the Brit officials are overwhelmed by all the men coming here to marry girls in bars and over the net.

Thats where most of the trouble starts.

[softgeorge]

Being British can be a bonus sometimes. However our embassies are some of the worst in the world for what they offer ex-pats or people on holiday abroad. They basically do absolutely nothing for you. If your having issues, medical, law e.t.c. it pays to be a U.S. Aussie, citizen or almost any other nationality!

And what makes you think the US, Australian (or any other country) does or offers more ?

Quite true the Australian Dept of Foreign affairs will simply say we cannot interfer in the ways of the country that you are in. About all the Aussie government will do is contact a relative and thier job is done.

[sydneyjed]

Yes many people chose to live and locate here after they have worked all their lives and rightfully receive their hard earned pensions...That's a fair call in anyones book,but to then expect a government to then 'wet nurse you' and expect them to do all the butler service and running around doing this and doing that when any drama occurs is a ridiculous expectation...especially after it is 'you' the individual who has chosen to leave your country of birthright..thus leaving all sovereign legal rights behind you..The duty /responsibility of care is always the individuals anyway and the quicker people out there accept this the wiser they'll be. As I stated on here not too long ago it is so often left up to people like Larry Cunningham (Australia's honorary consul to Phuket)to assist and mediate in the now ever frequent,everyday incidents that occur...Larry states(Sydney Morning Herald)"scams,criminality and bad behaviour are ruining the holidays of many Australians....While Australians start trouble,retribution is usually severe in Asian countries" Being called out at 3am in the morning to a motorbike accident/fatality to sort out identity/details/problems cannot be done just like that...People like Larry try there utmost to do this..no one is superman and even then they also have a life.Stay safe this Easter and Songkran.

[Hawk]

British embassy, they may turn up at a later date to collect the deceased passport, and ask the next of kin for a huge ransom in return for the body.

Hospital visits? No time!

The Embassy is all about money, visas to the UK are currently big money earners for the british government. An emergency passport will set one back £100 and is only valid for a day. Any type of embassy official letter is always overpriced. All money transactions done through the embassy will have a commission levied on it.

If you are seriously ill, then that's your problem. No money for a ticket back to the UK, again your problem. Thrown in jail, again your problem, so if one is not guilty, then tough sh**.

The lawyers they have on their official list are all crooks and cheats, and will drain one of every penny one has.

Therefore, if you get robbed, attacked, killed, runover by some filmstar, set up by the fuzz, then you are basically on your own to sort the problem out, and that's the way it's always been, and will always be.

Time for tea, and cakes left?

[Debothai]

My Pet peeve is why they don't do the passport renewals at the Bangkok Embassy anymore, forcing us to fork out around 12,000 baht for DHL and other charges.

[AngryParent]

I'd be interested to know what behind the scenes 'negotiations' are going on with the Thai authorities as the second paragraph makes me think the UK authorities are starting to take notice of the large number of deaths and injuries that occur to its citizens.

Add to the deaths/murders/victims of crime, mass human rights abuses commited by the Thai government (and its citizens) against British citizens that include violations of rights of a family, rights of property, equality and fair treatment etc.

I really hope they do wake up and as I have said before, it should be compulsary for the British governemt to inform all its citizens buying a ticket to Thailand i.e. a form which states all these abuses/matters must be given by the airways which must be signed by ALL.

[sydneyjed]

British embassy, they may turn up at a later date to collect the deceased passport, and ask the next of kin for a huge ransom in return for the body.

Hospital visits? No time!

The Embassy is all about money, visas to the UK are currently big money earners for the british government. An emergency passport will set one back £100 and is only valid for a day. Any type of embassy official letter is always overpriced. All money transactions done through the embassy will have a commission levied on it.

If you are seriously ill, then that's your problem. No money for a ticket back to the UK, again your problem. Thrown in jail, again your problem, so if one is not guilty, then tough sh**.

The lawyers they have on their official list are all crooks and cheats, and will drain one of every penny one has.

Therefore, if you get robbed, attacked, killed, runover by some filmstar, set up by the fuzz, then you are basically on your own to sort the problem out, and that's the way it's always been, and will always be.

Time for tea, and cakes left?

And what really are you expecting them to do for you if you get mugged here or get ill..pay your hospital bills and shout you a flight home?Take a reality pill mate..next thing you'll be saying is that the Bangkok Hilton doesn't supply soft toilet paper!

[cmsally]

The British are essentially their own worst enemies and this situation goes to proving that point. The over regulation in everything now is eroding people's sense of freedom and encouraging this lack of control over one's destiny and the amount of control the individual has over his own affairs. For a person in UK they seem to be actively encouraged to on one hand rely on the government and also to look for some kind of opportunity to sue or prosecute someone for what supposedly is their right but more often boils down to money.

What the British establishment doesn't seem to realise (or maybe it does), is that they are creating a population that cannot fend for itself when put in any other situation. Whereas in the country, there will probably be law 4 section 3 subsection 4 which they can claim under; abroad it doesn't work that way. Essentially the establishment has created the mindset that their representatives abroad should be an extension of what is found at home. Is that the average Brits mistake? Quite frankly looking at the state of the UK at the moment , I think not entirely, the British establishment is largely responsible for creating the "monster".

[retarius]

I hold US and UK passports, and have lived in a number of countries and have had an opportunity to compare consular services. My overall impression is that the US consul sees it as her/her responsibility to assist US citizens, and in general I have been more than happy with US consul's services, rates, and responsiveness. Sadly, the UK consul's attitude to its citizens is rather dismal...we seem to be an inconvenience to them, and the rates for their services are very expensive (I paid 1600 baht for an address verification letter, and I had to fill in the name an address myself). The raison d'etre for the British embassy seems to be as a place where they can hang placards telling you what they can't do for you...we can't get you out of jail...we can't help you if you fall ill etc etc pathetic...and before you ask, I'm in the process of having my visa moved to my US passport so I don't have to deal with these useless toe-rags any more.

[endure]

So what do you expect ?

You are from a nanny state with free health services for everybody. Now you have to be told that outside your country you have to use common sense and take your responsabilities.

The NHS isn't free - it's free AT THE POINT OF DELIVERY. Big difference.

[endure]

Palmerston will be spinning in his grave!

[cmsally]

I hold US and UK passports, and have lived in a number of countries and have had an opportunity to compare consular services. My overall impression is that the US consul sees it as her/her responsibility to assist US citizens, and in general I have been more than happy with US consul's services, rates, and responsiveness. Sadly, the UK consul's attitude to its citizens is rather dismal...we seem to be an inconvenience to them, and the rates for their services are very expensive (I paid 1600 baht for an address verification letter, and I had to fill in the name an address myself). The raison d'etre for the British embassy seems to be as a place where they can hang placards telling you what they can't do for you...we can't get you out of jail...we can't help you if you fall ill etc etc pathetic...and before you ask, I'm in the process of having my visa moved to my US passport so I don't have to deal with these useless toe-rags any more.

That's very interesting. I have a friend who was in Africa a few years back. Luckily she had 2 passports (1 UK), because when civil war broke out she was facilitated departure on her other passport. As far as she knew, the Brits were hanging around for a plane to come, but she wasn't going to stay and see if it turned up.

[bumpkin]

"Sadly, in the last 12 months, there were 314 reported deaths and 204 cases of Britons in hospital which were notified to us in Thailand. As a proportion of the total numbers of citizens in the country, these are amongst the highest in the world." -- Asif Ahmad, HM Ambassador, UK

... well ... the Ambassador makes clear one point ... Thailand is not the safe place the TAT portrays it in their glowing advertising campaigns ... thank you Mr. Ambassador for being forthright on what Thailand is and is not as a tourist destination.

... Thailand has a place for tourism ... similar to 3rd world travel ... more for adventure tourists, than for families.

... the numbers are what the numbers are ... no spin there.

Of the 314 reported deaths I would like to see a breakdown, by old age, traffic accident, disease, "suicide".

Maybe we can obtain this breakdown, under the F O I Act ?

A little surprising that some commentators here have little idea of the function of an Embassy.

Travelling and living abroad is not an approriate life style for everyone, it assumes a level of self reliance and responsibility.

[sydneyjed]

Well are they magically supposed to get you out of jail in a foreign land that ultimately has its own laws,values and cultural boundaries?The quicker people get their head around this God given mentallity that they seem to think they have where ever they go and get into grief, a consular offical will be at there at their beck and call...No British Empire here mate or EEC borders...

[TommoPhysicist]

Being British can be a bonus sometimes. However our embassies are some of the worst in the world for what they offer ex-pats or people on holiday abroad. They basically do absolutely nothing for you. If your having issues, medical, law e.t.c. it pays to be a U.S. Aussie, citizen or almost any other nationality!

Wrong on almost every count.With over 600,000 British visitors every year to Thailand it's simply impossible for the embassy to minister to every tourist's minor problems.The rather good current Ambassador - I'm sorry he's going - has made it very clear and humanely what the Embassy can do and what it can't do.More critically the culture of looking to the state to remedy every need is a peculiarly British one, especially among the benefits oriented underclass which is increasingly dominant in the Thailand tourist market and for that matter in the "expatriate community", whatever that absurd concept is meant to mean.Any doubters should take a look at Lower Sukhumvit or Pattaya.I suspect the first reaction of most Australians or Americans is to try to sort their problems out for themselves, rather than running to their Embassy.

The British (nanny) state seeks to regulate, control and oversee every aspect of its citizens life while they are in the UK.

I can understand how some citizens would expect this status to be maintained while they are overseas.

After all, what you have been trained to expect and obey all your life can hardly be changed by a 10 hour plane journey.

[TommoPhysicist]

The British are essentially their own worst enemies ......

@ cmsally

good post!

Edited April 6, 2012 by TommoPhysicist

[pogal]

If these are the rules of the Embassy then ok but... there are a lot of people who fall through these gaps. I work in the rescue field and most recently I have noticed an incidence of farang that are homeless! They literally have no money and no place to stay. There are 2 that come to mind in the Sukumvhit area. One goes by the name of David, he is about 55+ years old. He seems confused and unsure of his past. I originally took him to hospital after a slight motorcycle accident with minor scrapes and bumps, he had no ID or money, and was living off the street. His story changed each time I asked him and so I gathered at that point he was either lying or had some psychological problems, I didn't really pay much attention the first time as I assumed the hospital and Embassy would clear things up. I was wrong.

A week later I was called to another job in Param 4 where I found David again, someone had thought he had an accident but actually he was just sleeping on the pavement. I asked him what had happened in the hospital and he said he had just left after treatment. So I gathered that the neither the police or hospital had contacted the UK Embassy. I'm not quite sure if they have to or not?

After a lengthy conversation I realized that David was in fact confused about his whole life and needed help. I took him to the Tong Lor Police station and told them he had no ID and was living in a distressed state and needed consular assistance. After a lot of pushing I managed to get them to put me through to the after hours people in London who basically said if he is not in hospital or prison they are not interested. I then told the police that they should arrest David for not having ID, they were not interested. I had an accident to go to and when I returned later David was gone.

A few days later in Tong Lor soi 9 I again met David sleeping outside a plush Condo. The security wanted him removed. The police would not come. I once again took David to the police station and asked them to sign papers to commit him to a Psychiatric hospital for physical and mental treatment and hopefully this would lead to forced repatriation to the UK by the UK government.

The police finally agreed to sign the papers and a special ambulance was called. I once again was sent to attend another job. I myself contact the UK Embassy in BKK this time to alert them about David, the lady there was quite helpful but we discovered the next day that David was never sent to that hospital and was released back into the streets.

I have no idea were he is now and believe his life is in great danger. I don't give him long to be living like he is.

The problem is the Thai authorities are not doing their job properly either because they can't be bothered or they don't know what to do.

I believe there is a need for a foreigners agency to help foreigners of all countries who need unusual assistance like this. I am already stepping outside my jurisdiction. This needs to be handled by trained people with lots of contacts, money and authority.

I think if a group of governments joined together they could do this efficiently and economically, possibly with the assistance of sponsors etc.... just an idea. I feel a bit helpless and honestly don't have the time and resources to do this. I work full time and do ambulance voluntarily after work and weekends.

As for deaths in BKK, I try to attend these when I can to assist family or friend of the deceased in translation or protocol. I find a lot have died from drug/alcohol problems (normally put down as heart failure), often with large amounts of Viagra stashed in their rooms. Autopsies are done on some but many others don't. The autopsies themselves are simple and generally do not include testing for drugs etc. Basically opened up and looking for trauma wounds etc. I think the cause of deaths for many foreigners(and locals) would never be truly known. Its too expensive and most people are lacking in expertise (and effort).

Cause of deaths are often given by untrained police (and sometimes rescue workers) at the scene.

Statistics are not really a true indication of what has actually happened. I believe many murders in Thailand are never even discovered.

JFYI if you do have an accident and no insurance I recommend you go to Chulalongkorn hospital for urgent medical assistance. They will treat you even if you dont have money but may try and get it from you later. They are going to kill me for recommending this:/

As for insurances for long term people I highly recommend BAKAN SANG-KHOM, a government insurance. Cheap and unlimited cover. Only problem is that I think you need to be working? But do check it out. They also cover you for pre-existing conditions! Amazing! I have used it for 12 years and think it is great!

[Rinrada]

Reminds me of the time I got caught up in the Iraq/Iran warWullies latest coment:

Foreign Office uses technology to help Brits on holiday

not specific to SEA...however...

William Hague has announced a six-point plan to strengthen help for Brits abroad.

The Foreign secretary has created various taskforces which can respond quickly to crises overseas and is improving technology so that Britons abroad can keep in touch via mobiles or online.

In a speech yesterday he said the Government has no plans to subcontract consular services, adding: "Consular services will always remain a national responsibility."

His improvements include:

• a new crisis centre starting this summer with 50% more staff and a new call handling centre to deal with multiple crises
  
• a new network of contact centres which people can call, to provide round the clock coverage
  
• a new Rapid Deployment team, on call 24 hours of the day, seven days a week, for crises in the Middle East, North Africa and South Asia.
  
• a new mobile registration system by the end of this year so British nationals caught up in a crisis can contact by text message
  
• moving more of the consular services online
  
• give more focus to vulnerable people or victims abroad with bodies like the Victim Support National Homicide Service
  

The Foreign Secretary said courage and judgement were both needed by consular officials to avoid over-reaction citing Egypt as an example of where Foreign Office advice was right.

He said: "During the Revolution in Egypt we were one of the few countries to judge accurately that the Red Sea resorts would remain safe for British travellers."

Liked the coment earlier about Brits waiting for a rescue plane to get them out..

Reminds me of the time that I was in Basra and got caught up in the Iraq/Iran war...first one... with no news from Uk (but we kept the bar open)

Couldnt contact anyone but managed to call x wife No2 in London who got me through to the ITV news for one of those remote interviews.I also requested the UK Ambassadors Baghdad Tel number to get his offical advice.

Needless to say I finally got through (sitting under a heavy table) and requested offical UK Govs advice.......

His reply...........<deleted>** O**

I responded ...is that offical?

...he said YES and repeated the said Offical advice

All good fun.......then a case of the Kuwait shuffle with all my guys....."appy days

[cmsally]

In a speech yesterday he said the Government has no plans to subcontract consular services, adding: "Consular services will always remain a national responsibility

Come on we all know what that means, translation = "we really want to contract this out to a private firm, but because its been leaked we shall have to do it by stealth".

Edited April 6, 2012 by cmsally

[anterian]

Embassies are past their sell by date, unless your country has enormous trade clout with the country you are in the most they can do is make noises.

Embassies are show cases and trade facilitators, nothing more, in this modern age of high speed international communications, Ministers talk to ministers.

[sydneyjed]

First of all pogal I would personally like to thank you for the obvious care and love you show for all the people who cannot look after themselves due to the many social issues you have described..There is no doubt that people like you are needed in this world..of that there is no argument(God bless you)The story you tell of David though speaks volumns of the uphill battle that embassy staff have of situations and problems like this that occur on a daily basis ..(Who exactly is the guy..What's his proper name..Is he drug dependant..Are there mental issues...Is he really a UK citizen?..)The list goes on and on and another one appears not that long after...In short the embassy is not a private detective agency that can just employ people to chase up half leads...In short did David have a bad induced trip..Did he blow all his money on a girl he met one way or the other?A million questions mate and a million people here on holiday,work and what ever coming and going...No passport?..Well what can anyone hope to do then..the case in Pattaya last year was upsetting to say the least(myself included)Send his photo to as many news links as you can back home (local and any charity links also)Whatever keep up your good work ...Jed.

[BrianCR]

He is stating what they can do and what they cannot do according to the UK guide lines, at best its a point of contact and information, should we expect more?

I think you have to take each case as it comes but it also only fair that individuals take some responsibility themselves especially in the healthcare department coming here with no Health Insurance or parts of it are open to interpretation is not the responsibility of the UK Embassy.

In times of distress I would expect them to do as much as they possibly can and if neccessary arrange a loan, not a gift, to sort out finances.

Should we expect more? Yes! Many of us have been paying social security payments and taxes all our working lives. Then, when we retire (and honestly tell them we are living overseas) they offer us a basic pension with no increases EVER! All the extra payments our counterparts, still living in the UK, receive are denied us and why? Because we chose to live overseas (the fact is that we also chose to pay tax and social security but that doesn't matter to the powers that be). My National Health payments were paid to be able to obtain medical treatment and yet, if I were on deaths door with no funds my wonderful government will sit back and do what they are good at doing - nothing! What about some far play for the thousands of pounds we have paid? Fair Play? Come on old chap, we've got half of bloody Europe to keep!!!!