Abhisit Vows To Back Probe Into 91 Deaths

[Skywalker69]

I believe these are the videos you were referring to. May I suggest that your recollection is slightly at odds with the videos.

How so? Seemed to be the commotion i described, albeit without any visible weapons. Do you also liken these events to that of an official visitor passing through a ward?

Yes, there is a difference: Visitors would generally use the car park and walk across it to the wards; The Red Shirt protesters seem to have only walked the car parks. Maybe someone was putting a live feed from the car park straight onto the patients' TV sets in order to upset them, and thus require their evacuation? There must be some genuine reason why all the patients needed to be evacuated.

Lame excuse to try to justify Red Shirt scumbags.

[Siam Simon]

I believe these are the videos you were referring to. May I suggest that your recollection is slightly at odds with the videos.

How so? Seemed to be the commotion i described, albeit without any visible weapons. Do you also liken these events to that of an official visitor passing through a ward?

Yes, there is a difference: Visitors would generally use the car park and walk across it to the wards; The Red Shirt protesters seem to have only walked the car parks. Maybe someone was putting a live feed from the car park straight onto the patients' TV sets in order to upset them, and thus require their evacuation? There must be some genuine reason why all the patients needed to be evacuated.

Lame excuse to try to justify Red Shirt scumbags.

I counted nine words, Don .

[metisdead]

An off topic post and a reply have been removed.

[sparebox2]

Maybe Mark can't stand Amsterdam anymore, and double Thaksin offer; to SHUT UP.

[rixalex]

I believe these are the videos you were referring to. May I suggest that your recollection is slightly at odds with the videos.

How so? Seemed to be the commotion i described, albeit without any visible weapons. Do you also liken these events to that of an official visitor passing through a ward?

"Footage i recall showed hospital staff barrackading up doors and reds storming through them forcefully wielding a variety of weapons. People then shrieking and fleeing in varying directions. In short, pandemonium".

Your very words in all their technicolour imagery except now you change it to visible "weaponry" - The video images reflect your description you say. I beg to differ.

As far as asking me whether "I liken these events to that of an official visitor passing through a ward", why would I when I have expressed no other opinion than comment on your hyperbole.

The reason why i ask whether you consider the reds hospital invasion akin to an official visitor passing through a ward, is because one of your fellow hospital invasion apologists made this claim, and it was this claim to which i responded with my comments about my recollections being somewhat different - my recollections being that there was a state of pandemonium at the hospital on that day - nothing whatsoever comparable to "an official visitor passing through a ward".

I suspect if forced you to answer, you would have to agree, but of course the last thing you would want to do is to contradict a fellow hospital invasion apologist, so instead you nick pick at the details of what was and what wasn't involved in all that pandemonium.

And to repeat, this attempt of blame shifting from red thugs who perpetrated the invasion, onto doctors and nurses and other hospital staff, is as pathetic an argument as that being made by your foes on the other side of the political divide who seek to shift blame from the PAD onto the AOT, for the shutting of the airport. Are you incapable of recognising the parallels of stupidity that exist in the reasoning of both arguments? I fear you are....

[jayboy]

And to repeat, this attempt of blame shifting from red thugs who perpetrated the invasion, onto doctors and nurses and other hospital staff, is as pathetic an argument as that being made by your foes on the other side of the political divide who seek to shift blame from the PAD onto the AOT, for the shutting of the airport.

I hope I don't embarrass you but you have made an excellent point.As to the airport closure there are even now on this forum those who blame the PAD's criminality on the AOT.As to the hospital incident the only honest response is to affirm the redshirts should have stayed outside.

On a related matter I understand, from a letter from an anti-BBC campaigner John Shepherd in the other paper, the BBC has now completed an internal investigation on its Bangkok reporting in 2010.Overall the reporting was found to be fair and objective though with room for improvement at the margin.

[OzMick]

And to repeat, this attempt of blame shifting from red thugs who perpetrated the invasion, onto doctors and nurses and other hospital staff, is as pathetic an argument as that being made by your foes on the other side of the political divide who seek to shift blame from the PAD onto the AOT, for the shutting of the airport.

I hope I don't embarrass you but you have made an excellent point.As to the airport closure there are even now on this forum those who blame the PAD's criminality on the AOT.As to the hospital incident the only honest response is to affirm the redshirts should have stayed outside.

On a related matter I understand, from a letter from an anti-BBC campaigner John Shepherd in the other paper, the BBC has now completed an internal investigation on its Bangkok reporting in 2010.Overall the reporting was found to be fair and objective though with room for improvement at the margin.

Internal reports are often like that.

[jayboy]

Internal reports are often like that.

As is the tendency of zealots to refuse to accept any conclusion that doesn't meet with their own views.

[phiphidon]

The reason why i ask whether you consider the reds hospital invasion akin to an official visitor passing through a ward, is because one of your fellow hospital invasion apologists made this claim, and it was this claim to which i responded with my comments about my recollections being somewhat different - my recollections being that there was a state of pandemonium at the hospital on that day - nothing whatsoever comparable to "an official visitor passing through a ward".

I suspect if forced you to answer, you would have to agree, but of course the last thing you would want to do is to contradict a fellow hospital invasion apologist, so instead you nick pick at the details of what was and what wasn't involved in all that pandemonium.

And to repeat, this attempt of blame shifting from red thugs who perpetrated the invasion, onto doctors and nurses and other hospital staff, is as pathetic an argument as that being made by your foes on the other side of the political divide who seek to shift blame from the PAD onto the AOT, for the shutting of the airport. Are you incapable of recognising the parallels of stupidity that exist in the reasoning of both arguments? I fear you are....

Once again ignoring your insults I can only state that your posting

"Footage i recall showed hospital staff barrackading up doors and reds storming through them forcefully wielding a variety of weapons. People then shrieking and fleeing in varying directions. In short, pandemonium".

is not and was not a true description of what transpired. Do you truly think the red shirts went into the hospital purely on a whim? An alternative account:

http://asiapacific.a...#comment-690226

A response to that account:

Jaded // May 1, 2010 at 4:35 pm

As an eyewitness I can confirm I saw at least a company strength unit of blue scarf military armed with G3 automatic rifles approaching in the direction of the rear of the hospital in single file early in the afternoon of the same day that the “red raid” took place. I guess it was some time around 3pm. I didn’t see the the soldiers escaping from the hospital but I did see a group of soldiers retreat very rapidly from that direction around the same time. I was standing on Surawong road close to the corner of Rama4. The military and the police were crouched down with weapons raised in the direction of Rama 4 and cars that had been going in the Rama 4 direction were doing u turns to get away from something… What that something was I didn’t know at the time but now that I have read this I think I must have arrived shortly after the incident described above happened. The level of background noise in that area is such that a gun battle could take place on the next street and business on your street would obliviously proceed as normal.

I didn’t hang around for obvious reasons so I can’t tell you what happened after that.

Another site, a blog, but still relevant

Mr. Jatuporn said that since the inspection of the hospital by a handful of red-shirt guards led by Payap Panket had become public there had been numerous people come forward, Thai’s and foreigners, to verify that Thai troops had not only been in the hospital, but had also shot at red-shirt protesters.

“Online forums around the world now have numerous reports from eyewitnesses to last Saturday’s events, including photographs of soldiers in the grounds of Chulalongkorn Hospital wearing the hospitals distinctive pink slippers.

“These reports by independent people, along with the photographs that have now been posted online around the world, show that:

• “Chulalongkorn Hospital has not remained independent and neutral as it claims

• “the evacuation of patients by the hospital was nothing more than a publicity stunt orchestrated by a desperate government to discredit the peaceful red-shirts protest

• “the red-shirt protesters actions was in direct response to the government breaching international conventions and placing troops inside the hospital

• “hospital director Adisorn Patradul has not been open and truthful about the presence of armed troops in his hospital

I just know you won't believe the above as the usual knee jerk reaction to the name jaturporn but try and raise yourself above the bias and read on.

You will find that there might just be the smattering of truth about the army on and in the hospital grounds in direct violation of international conventions and it had already been demonstrated that abhisit and co. didn't think that those applied to them.

A picture of an army soldier in the hospital grounds curiously wearing the trade mark pink sandals............

[Skywalker69]

I suggest you get out more and take a look around, you'll see this every day, anywhere in Thailand. Try and think about a connection of the mindset displayed Buchholz and you just might see a link and it's got eff all to do with whether it's red shirts or b/s human shield reports.

Got it.

TIME Magazine equals BS reports.

Phiphidon tangential nonsense trying to dismiss Red Shirt human shields as common everyday Thai behavior equals truth.... as in "Truth Today"

.

The only mention of human shields - such an emotive subject, just made for magazine articles - was made by the writer of the article. It was denied quite rightly. I presume you read the quotes of the parents - they all said they wouldn't go even if the Red Shirt Leaders told them to. The only reason it was dangerous was because there were 20,000 troops determined to break the place down. <deleted> It was dangerous if you went to the officially approved sanctuary of the Wat, 6 people were shot dead there.

So why were there kids inside the Reds camp?

Wonder why no TV Red Shirt supporter care to answer?

[hyperdimension]

So why were there kids inside the Reds camp?

Wonder why no TV Red Shirt supporter care to answer?

So that if any died, Thaksin could use their deaths as leverage against the government. The mass media would then be writing not just "x deaths", but "x deaths including y children", which has greater shock value. The greater the values of x and especially y, the greater the shock value, helping to shift public sentiment in favor of the Red Shirts (and thus Thaksin) and against the brutal military and government. I'm quite sure that this would have been discussed when Thaksin planned the riots with the rogue generals at the end of 2009. Edited April 28, 2012 by hyperdimension

[OzMick]

The reason why i ask whether you consider the reds hospital invasion akin to an official visitor passing through a ward, is because one of your fellow hospital invasion apologists made this claim, and it was this claim to which i responded with my comments about my recollections being somewhat different - my recollections being that there was a state of pandemonium at the hospital on that day - nothing whatsoever comparable to "an official visitor passing through a ward".

I suspect if forced you to answer, you would have to agree, but of course the last thing you would want to do is to contradict a fellow hospital invasion apologist, so instead you nick pick at the details of what was and what wasn't involved in all that pandemonium.

And to repeat, this attempt of blame shifting from red thugs who perpetrated the invasion, onto doctors and nurses and other hospital staff, is as pathetic an argument as that being made by your foes on the other side of the political divide who seek to shift blame from the PAD onto the AOT, for the shutting of the airport. Are you incapable of recognising the parallels of stupidity that exist in the reasoning of both arguments? I fear you are....

Once again ignoring your insults I can only state that your posting

"Footage i recall showed hospital staff barrackading up doors and reds storming through them forcefully wielding a variety of weapons. People then shrieking and fleeing in varying directions. In short, pandemonium".

is not and was not a true description of what transpired. Do you truly think the red shirts went into the hospital purely on a whim? An alternative account:

http://asiapacific.a...#comment-690226

A response to that account:

Jaded // May 1, 2010 at 4:35 pm

As an eyewitness I can confirm I saw at least a company strength unit of blue scarf military armed with G3 automatic rifles approaching in the direction of the rear of the hospital in single file early in the afternoon of the same day that the “red raid” took place. I guess it was some time around 3pm. I didn’t see the the soldiers escaping from the hospital but I did see a group of soldiers retreat very rapidly from that direction around the same time. I was standing on Surawong road close to the corner of Rama4. The military and the police were crouched down with weapons raised in the direction of Rama 4 and cars that had been going in the Rama 4 direction were doing u turns to get away from something… What that something was I didn’t know at the time but now that I have read this I think I must have arrived shortly after the incident described above happened. The level of background noise in that area is such that a gun battle could take place on the next street and business on your street would obliviously proceed as normal.

I didn’t hang around for obvious reasons so I can’t tell you what happened after that.

Another site, a blog, but still relevant

Mr. Jatuporn said that since the inspection of the hospital by a handful of red-shirt guards led by Payap Panket had become public there had been numerous people come forward, Thai’s and foreigners, to verify that Thai troops had not only been in the hospital, but had also shot at red-shirt protesters.

“Online forums around the world now have numerous reports from eyewitnesses to last Saturday’s events, including photographs of soldiers in the grounds of Chulalongkorn Hospital wearing the hospitals distinctive pink slippers.

“These reports by independent people, along with the photographs that have now been posted online around the world, show that:

• “Chulalongkorn Hospital has not remained independent and neutral as it claims

• “the evacuation of patients by the hospital was nothing more than a publicity stunt orchestrated by a desperate government to discredit the peaceful red-shirts protest

• “the red-shirt protesters actions was in direct response to the government breaching international conventions and placing troops inside the hospital

• “hospital director Adisorn Patradul has not been open and truthful about the presence of armed troops in his hospital

I just know you won't believe the above as the usual knee jerk reaction to the name jaturporn but try and raise yourself above the bias and read on.

You will find that there might just be the smattering of truth about the army on and in the hospital grounds in direct violation of international conventions and it had already been demonstrated that abhisit and co. didn't think that those applied to them.

A picture of an army soldier in the hospital grounds curiously wearing the trade mark pink sandals............

Trying to gain credibility with a statement that starts with "Mr. Jatuporn said....." is getting pretty bloody desperate Donald.

[Buchholz]

Another site, a blog, but still relevant

Mr. Jatuporn said that since the inspection of the hospital by a handful of red-shirt guards led by Payap Panket

Countless international and local news reported this "handful" as "more than 200"

https://www.google.co.th/search?q=chulalongkorn+hospital+200+red+shirt&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

=========================================================================

More on the behavior of the Red Shirts...even days after the raid...

Doctors and medical staff have spoken of their distress and fear after red shirt protesters raided Chulalongkorn Hospital last week.

The red shirts' raid on Thursday forced the evacuation of more than 100 patients from the hospital and triggered public condemnation. Medical staff told a forum yesterday organised by the Thai Journalists Association that they were now living in fear.

The protesters agreed yesterday to allow access to the hospital's emergency unit in the face of growing public criticism.

Thammasak Thawitsri, an anaesthesiologist at the hospital, said staff were worried about their safety. "We didn't know what to do, the hospital looks like a desolate place. I cannot hold back my tears," Dr Thammasak said.

Supaporn Sritangsirikul, a C7 nurse, said staff felt unsafe.

Before they could enter the hospital, they had to pass through a checkpoint manned by red shirt protesters who demanded bag searches.

At one point the nurses heard continued gunshots and crouched in fear, she said. Then, a patient beeped for help and the nurses had to crawl into the patient's room to attend to him.

"Safety is the basic right of people," Mrs Supaporn said.

"If medical professionals feel unsafe, they will lose concentration and cannot deliver their services. We maintain our neutrality. We treat everyone, no matter who they are."

Chulalongkorn Hospital Deputy Director Somrat Jarulaksananant said the hospital wanted to appeal to the red shirt demonstrators to keep away from the complex and to back away from areas around the King Rama IV statue near the Sala Daeng intersection where they have set up camp.

"The protesters should allow reasonable distance between themselves and the hospital so hospital staff could deliver medical services effectively," he said.

Dr Somrat defended the hospital's decision to move patients to other hospitals following Thursday's raid. He said it was not an overreaction. The evacuation was carried out for the safety of patients.

"The hospital treats from 3,000 to 4,000 patients a day. The number has fallen by 20% since the red shirts occupied the area in front of the hospital last month," Dr Somrat said.

Hospital staff and doctors will gather today in front of the hospital's administration building to demand a safe environment to perform their duties.

A total of 140 patients have been evacuated to other hospitals; 113 to hospitals in Bangkok and 27 to 13 other provinces. Public Health Minister Jurin Laksanavisit said yesterday the hospital had made the right decision to evacuate some of its patients.

Edited April 28, 2012 by Buchholz

[rixalex]

Once again ignoring your insults I can only state that your posting

"Footage i recall showed hospital staff barrackading up doors and reds storming through them forcefully wielding a variety of weapons. People then shrieking and fleeing in varying directions. In short, pandemonium".

is not and was not a true description of what transpired.

Precise details may differ, as i have already conceded, but my conclusion of there being pandemonium stands 100%. Are you contesting this? Are you also of a mind to compare the events of that day to that of another in which an official visitor arrived for a look-see?

Do you truly think the red shirts went into the hospital purely on a whim?

When exactly did i say that? I didn't. I don't doubt they had their reasons for going. How well informed and grounded those reasons were, i don't know, but either way, I don't think those reasons justified their acts.

[AleG]

Ultimately evacuating the hospital was a wise decision, when the barricades the Red Shirts built around it were set on fire the whole building was engulfed in thick, black, toxic smoke for hours.

[phiphidon]

Once again ignoring your insults I can only state that your posting

"Footage i recall showed hospital staff barrackading up doors and reds storming through them forcefully wielding a variety of weapons. People then shrieking and fleeing in varying directions. In short, pandemonium".

is not and was not a true description of what transpired. Do you truly think the red shirts went into the hospital purely on a whim? An alternative account:

http://asiapacific.a...#comment-690226

A response to that account:

Jaded // May 1, 2010 at 4:35 pm

As an eyewitness I can confirm I saw at least a company strength unit of blue scarf military armed with G3 automatic rifles approaching in the direction of the rear of the hospital in single file early in the afternoon of the same day that the “red raid” took place. I guess it was some time around 3pm. I didn’t see the the soldiers escaping from the hospital but I did see a group of soldiers retreat very rapidly from that direction around the same time. I was standing on Surawong road close to the corner of Rama4. The military and the police were crouched down with weapons raised in the direction of Rama 4 and cars that had been going in the Rama 4 direction were doing u turns to get away from something… What that something was I didn’t know at the time but now that I have read this I think I must have arrived shortly after the incident described above happened. The level of background noise in that area is such that a gun battle could take place on the next street and business on your street would obliviously proceed as normal.

I didn’t hang around for obvious reasons so I can’t tell you what happened after that.

Another site, a blog, but still relevant

Mr. Jatuporn said that since the inspection of the hospital by a handful of red-shirt guards led by Payap Panket had become public there had been numerous people come forward, Thai’s and foreigners, to verify that Thai troops had not only been in the hospital, but had also shot at red-shirt protesters.

“Online forums around the world now have numerous reports from eyewitnesses to last Saturday’s events, including photographs of soldiers in the grounds of Chulalongkorn Hospital wearing the hospitals distinctive pink slippers.

“These reports by independent people, along with the photographs that have now been posted online around the world, show that:

• “Chulalongkorn Hospital has not remained independent and neutral as it claims

• “the evacuation of patients by the hospital was nothing more than a publicity stunt orchestrated by a desperate government to discredit the peaceful red-shirts protest

• “the red-shirt protesters actions was in direct response to the government breaching international conventions and placing troops inside the hospital

• “hospital director Adisorn Patradul has not been open and truthful about the presence of armed troops in his hospital

I just know you won't believe the above as the usual knee jerk reaction to the name jaturporn but try and raise yourself above the bias and read on.

You will find that there might just be the smattering of truth about the army on and in the hospital grounds in direct violation of international conventions and it had already been demonstrated that abhisit and co. didn't think that those applied to them.

A picture of an army soldier in the hospital grounds curiously wearing the trade mark pink sandals............

Trying to gain credibility with a statement that starts with "Mr. Jatuporn said....." is getting pretty bloody desperate Donald.

I just knew it.................

[OzMick]

Trying to gain credibility with a statement that starts with "Mr. Jatuporn said....." is getting pretty bloody desperate Donald.

I just knew it.................

Then why bother? Surely you could have googled and found a statement from Robert Amsterdam that they went in to donate blood or volunteer as nurses' aids. If Jatuporn told me it was raining, I'd have to check he wasn't pissing on me.

[phiphidon]

snip

More on the behavior of the Red Shirts...even days after the raid...

snip

Lets put this "fear"of the Reds in perspective, with this insightful article by Thongchai Winichakul. It is a long essay but don't let that put you off. Those of you who are "balanced" ( and that does not include those with a chip on both shoulders) in their viewpoint will find it interesting at the very least, I hope:

The “germs”: the reds’ infection of the Thai political body

May 3rd, 2010 by Thongchai Winichakul, Guest Contributor

The media reports, especially on TV, are full of horrible eyewitness accounts. Doctors, nurses, patients, and their relatives are panicked. They frantically moved patients, many of whom are in a serious condition and should not be moved, to another building. What is shown on TV is not an orderly operation as precaution but a chaotic, disorganized action by medical personnel who were in fright! The Reds are coming! They heard the Reds are coming! People said the Reds are coming!

There is no need for a single picture or photo if the Reds were armed, or a report of a single shot, but the public assume that the Reds stormed into the hospital fully armed, threatening doctors and patients with weapons, causing horrific chaos as people tried to escape the armed invasion. A nurse was reported saying that she has to work with fear of bullets from the Reds everyday, as if there were a shot at the hospital even once. (Finally there was, in the parking area of the hospital when the UDD group actually encountered a few army officers. The soldiers shot at them. The UDD people escaped uninjured.)..................

Read on here http://asiapacific.a...-the-red-germs/

Edited April 28, 2012 by phiphidon

[metisdead]

A post meant to incite more bickering has been removed. If you cannot post in a polite manner respectful of others and the fact that they are allowed to have opinions different than your own then I would highly recommend that you do not post.

[Skywalker69]

Siam Simon #152

It´s an improvement then, I like it short and also I don´t know how far you can count.

[Skywalker69]

So why were there kids inside the Reds camp?

Wonder why no TV Red Shirt supporter care to answer?

So that if any died, Thaksin could use their deaths as leverage against the government. The mass media would then be writing not just "x deaths", but "x deaths including y children", which has greater shock value. The greater the values of x and especially y, the greater the shock value, helping to shift public sentiment in favor of the Red Shirts (and thus Thaksin) and against the brutal military and government. I'm quite sure that this would have been discussed when Thaksin planned the riots with the rogue generals at the end of 2009.

I know that. I why no TV Res Shirt supporters/admirer care to answer.

[Skywalker69]

Internal reports are often like that.

As is the tendency of zealots to refuse to accept any conclusion that doesn't meet with their own views.

Are you talking about your self?

[mca]

A post meant to incite more bickering has been removed. If you cannot post in a polite manner respectful of others and the fact that they are allowed to have opinions different than your own then I would highly recommend that you do not post.

Come on Buchholz. Why aren't you pressing the like this button?

[Skywalker69]

Another site, a blog, but still relevant

Mr. Jatuporn said that since the inspection of the hospital by a handful of red-shirt guards led by Payap Panket

Countless international and local news reported this "handful" as "more than 200"

https://www.google.c...lient=firefox-a

=========================================================================

More on the behavior of the Red Shirts...even days after the raid...

Doctors and medical staff have spoken of their distress and fear after red shirt protesters raided Chulalongkorn Hospital last week.

The red shirts' raid on Thursday forced the evacuation of more than 100 patients from the hospital and triggered public condemnation. Medical staff told a forum yesterday organised by the Thai Journalists Association that they were now living in fear.

The protesters agreed yesterday to allow access to the hospital's emergency unit in the face of growing public criticism.

Thammasak Thawitsri, an anaesthesiologist at the hospital, said staff were worried about their safety. "We didn't know what to do, the hospital looks like a desolate place. I cannot hold back my tears," Dr Thammasak said.

Supaporn Sritangsirikul, a C7 nurse, said staff felt unsafe.

Before they could enter the hospital, they had to pass through a checkpoint manned by red shirt protesters who demanded bag searches.

At one point the nurses heard continued gunshots and crouched in fear, she said. Then, a patient beeped for help and the nurses had to crawl into the patient's room to attend to him.

"Safety is the basic right of people," Mrs Supaporn said.

"If medical professionals feel unsafe, they will lose concentration and cannot deliver their services. We maintain our neutrality. We treat everyone, no matter who they are."

Chulalongkorn Hospital Deputy Director Somrat Jarulaksananant said the hospital wanted to appeal to the red shirt demonstrators to keep away from the complex and to back away from areas around the King Rama IV statue near the Sala Daeng intersection where they have set up camp.

"The protesters should allow reasonable distance between themselves and the hospital so hospital staff could deliver medical services effectively," he said.

Dr Somrat defended the hospital's decision to move patients to other hospitals following Thursday's raid. He said it was not an overreaction. The evacuation was carried out for the safety of patients.

"The hospital treats from 3,000 to 4,000 patients a day. The number has fallen by 20% since the red shirts occupied the area in front of the hospital last month," Dr Somrat said.

Hospital staff and doctors will gather today in front of the hospital's administration building to demand a safe environment to perform their duties.

A total of 140 patients have been evacuated to other hospitals; 113 to hospitals in Bangkok and 27 to 13 other provinces. Public Health Minister Jurin Laksanavisit said yesterday the hospital had made the right decision to evacuate some of its patients.

The Red Shirt TV supporters/admirer´s denial of any Red Shirt wrongdoings is tragic and sickening.

[OzMick]

snip

More on the behavior of the Red Shirts...even days after the raid...

snip

Lets put this "fear"of the Reds in perspective, with this insightful article by Thongchai Winichakul. It is a long essay but don't let that put you off. Those of you who are "balanced" ( and that does not include those with a chip on both shoulders) in their viewpoint will find it interesting at the very least, I hope:

The “germs”: the reds’ infection of the Thai political body

May 3rd, 2010 by Thongchai Winichakul, Guest Contributor

The media reports, especially on TV, are full of horrible eyewitness accounts. Doctors, nurses, patients, and their relatives are panicked. They frantically moved patients, many of whom are in a serious condition and should not be moved, to another building. What is shown on TV is not an orderly operation as precaution but a chaotic, disorganized action by medical personnel who were in fright! The Reds are coming! They heard the Reds are coming! People said the Reds are coming!

There is no need for a single picture or photo if the Reds were armed, or a report of a single shot, but the public assume that the Reds stormed into the hospital fully armed, threatening doctors and patients with weapons, causing horrific chaos as people tried to escape the armed invasion. A nurse was reported saying that she has to work with fear of bullets from the Reds everyday, as if there were a shot at the hospital even once. (Finally there was, in the parking area of the hospital when the UDD group actually encountered a few army officers. The soldiers shot at them. The UDD people escaped uninjured.)..................

Read on here http://asiapacific.a...-the-red-germs/

The professor wishes to ridicule the assumption that the red shirts entered the hospital armed. As their claim was that the entered in order to evict soldiers who had been firing on them, the assumption that therefore they were unarmed is completely farcical.

One fact should be repeated. If the red protesters had not used arms to resist their lawful removal, there would be no necessity for the RTA to use weapons against them.

[Siam Simon]

I believe these are the videos you were referring to. May I suggest that your recollection is slightly at odds with the videos.

How so? Seemed to be the commotion i described, albeit without any visible weapons. Do you also liken these events to that of an official visitor passing through a ward?

"Footage i recall showed hospital staff barrackading up doors and reds storming through them forcefully wielding a variety of weapons. People then shrieking and fleeing in varying directions. In short, pandemonium".

Your very words in all their technicolour imagery except now you change it to visible "weaponry" - The video images reflect your description you say. I beg to differ.

As far as asking me whether "I liken these events to that of an official visitor passing through a ward", why would I when I have expressed no other opinion than comment on your hyperbole.

The reason why i ask whether you consider the reds hospital invasion akin to an official visitor passing through a ward, is because one of your fellow hospital invasion apologists made this claim, and it was this claim to which i responded with my comments about my recollections being somewhat different - my recollections being that there was a state of pandemonium at the hospital on that day - nothing whatsoever comparable to "an official visitor passing through a ward".

I suspect if forced you to answer, you would have to agree, but of course the last thing you would want to do is to contradict a fellow hospital invasion apologist, so instead you nick pick at the details of what was and what wasn't involved in all that pandemonium.

And to repeat, this attempt of blame shifting from red thugs who perpetrated the invasion, onto doctors and nurses and other hospital staff, is as pathetic an argument as that being made by your foes on the other side of the political divide who seek to shift blame from the PAD onto the AOT, for the shutting of the airport. Are you incapable of recognising the parallels of stupidity that exist in the reasoning of both arguments? I fear you are....

So, Rix, what specifically so you think brought on the decision to evacuate? We know that there were some protesters in the main lobby, but any voice-related commotion wouldn't carry to the wards. We know that there were some protesters searching the multi-storey car park, accompanied by hospital staff and a fair few reporters and photographers, but how could this activity in the car park impact on patient care? The video evidence we have shows a tense situation, not one that was out-of-control or "pandemonium". So, why evacuate?

And you can insult me with your "hospital invasion apologist" jibe as much as you like, I'm thick-skinned . I continue to moderate my criticism of Chula hospital's behaviour and the hyperbole of fellow TVF posters with my genuine condemnation of the intrusion by Red Shirts.

[Siam Simon]

snip

More on the behavior of the Red Shirts...even days after the raid...

snip

Lets put this "fear"of the Reds in perspective, with this insightful article by Thongchai Winichakul. It is a long essay but don't let that put you off. Those of you who are "balanced" ( and that does not include those with a chip on both shoulders) in their viewpoint will find it interesting at the very least, I hope:

The “germs”: the reds’ infection of the Thai political body

May 3rd, 2010 by Thongchai Winichakul, Guest Contributor

The media reports, especially on TV, are full of horrible eyewitness accounts. Doctors, nurses, patients, and their relatives are panicked. They frantically moved patients, many of whom are in a serious condition and should not be moved, to another building. What is shown on TV is not an orderly operation as precaution but a chaotic, disorganized action by medical personnel who were in fright! The Reds are coming! They heard the Reds are coming! People said the Reds are coming!

There is no need for a single picture or photo if the Reds were armed, or a report of a single shot, but the public assume that the Reds stormed into the hospital fully armed, threatening doctors and patients with weapons, causing horrific chaos as people tried to escape the armed invasion. A nurse was reported saying that she has to work with fear of bullets from the Reds everyday, as if there were a shot at the hospital even once. (Finally there was, in the parking area of the hospital when the UDD group actually encountered a few army officers. The soldiers shot at them. The UDD people escaped uninjured.)..................

Read on here http://asiapacific.a...-the-red-germs/

The professor wishes to ridicule the assumption that the red shirts entered the hospital armed. As their claim was that the entered in order to evict soldiers who had been firing on them, the assumption that therefore they were unarmed is completely farcical.

One fact should be repeated. If the red protesters had not used arms to resist their lawful removal, there would be no necessity for the RTA to use weapons against them.

The CD's stuck .

[Siam Simon]

Siam Simon #152

It´s an improvement then, I like it short and also I don´t know how far you can count.

A bit further than your IQ (joking ). But seriously, I think you should do a bit more thinking before you post. Most of your posts come across as knee-jerk reactions, lacking in humour (the one above excepted ).

[Skywalker69]

Siam Simon #152

It´s an improvement then, I like it short and also I don´t know how far you can count.

A bit further than your IQ (joking ). But seriously, I think you should do a bit more thinking before you post. Most of your posts come across as knee-jerk reactions, lacking in humour (the one above excepted ).

Your advice could include PTP as well.

[rixalex]

So, Rix, what specifically so you think brought on the decision to evacuate?

The safety of staff and patients.

Easy for you, someone who wasn't there, who now sits safely behind his computer completely removed from any of this (like us all of course) to make the judgement that lives weren't in danger and that this was simply political showboating, but you don't know this for a fact, it is just something you choose to believe. I choose to believe that 99% of doctors and nurses ultimately, and when it comes to the crunch, will act in the best interests of their patients - it is how they are programmed - and i believe that is what was happening here - as well as of course acting in the interests of their own safety.

And you can insult me with your "hospital invasion apologist" jibe as much as you like, I'm thick-skinned . I continue to moderate my criticism of Chula hospital's behaviour and the hyperbole of fellow TVF posters with my genuine condemnation of the intrusion by Red Shirts.

Sorry but I find the "genuine condemnation" rings fairly hollow all the time you are making silly comparisons like "much akin to official visitors passing through".