Frustated With Supporting Thai Wifes Family

[Augustus]

I am married to a Thai woman. We will have been married since April. I paid a bride price, had a ceremony Thai style, and all that. But I am unable to get her family out of my pocket for some reason. I am American and I do understand the importance of family and realize that if you are able to help then you should. I just spent a pill helping my wife sick grandma it the hospital for about 6 weeks getting proper care treatment and diagnosis. I felt good for doing that and dont regret it one bit. I recently told my wife that I want to get a bigger place (I cannot stand the small flat and I can afford pretty much anything I want) at least something with the bedroom seperate. She went into a tirade about me thinking because I have so much money I can do what I want (Being the filthy American that I am I do believe that if you can afford it and want it GET IT) We went back and forth about this for a few days with her main reasons for not wanting it being it is too much to clean, it will take away from money you save, you think you are a big shot. My main reasons where/are I work in the middle east (war zone), I want ot be able to come home to a comfortably sized living area (something bigger than my hooch in the field), I can afford it. After three days of bickering back and foth I finally relented and said never mind I will just stay in the small flat until I save enough for a condo. In this same coversation in wich I relented not a full 60 seconds after I said never mind she brings up the idea to give her father 2000 usd to start a pig farm. Me being the dumb ass I am said OK (because I am thinking if I help them get a business going it will be less dough I will have to shell out in the future). But this is outrageous to think that this woman who I married thinks it is better for me to give her family money than it is for me to be comfortable when I come home. I am very frustrated with the concept that her families well being and happiness is more important than mine. I thought that when you marry you become the most important thing to each other. I get the sneeky suspicion that the whole reason behind her arguments about my larger room was becasue she already told them I would cough op the 2k for the farm and me getting the larger room might spoil her plans for them. Is it normal behavior for a Thai woman to put her family before her spouse? I have a hard time believeing that would be the case if I was I Thai male and not a farang. So any suggestions on how to handle this? I am preparing for a confrontation and I want to make sure I understand all the angles. What really upsets me is that I am certian my well being and confort is second to theirs in her eyes. I cannot be with someone who cannot put my needs and desires first (same as I would hers) and I am sure I said this at least 2 million times before we got married. So what should I do? I dont want a divorce. I just want the same respect any other filthly capitalist scum would want from his significant other and I am not in the business of taking care of health people nor will I be for much longer.

[OlRedEyes]

I would say you simply need to draw the lines, and let the chips fall where they may. Else you'll be a cash cow for the rest of your life.

[mraitchison]

Oh dear.........

[RamdomChances]

They are'nt going to get much of a pig farm for 2K dollar about 80,000 bhat I think.

[Augustus]

I would say you simply need to draw the lines, and let the chips fall where they may. Else you'll be a cash cow for the rest of your life.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

How can I draw the line with out a major blow up?

[snoophound]

Someone said it really well on a similar thread

Marry an orphan.

I would say you simply need to draw the lines, and let the chips fall where they may. Else you'll be a cash cow for the rest of your life.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

How can I draw the line with out a major blow up?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[steveromagnino]

As a 1/2 Thai, I'll have a shot at answering some of these questions and issues you raise.....

>>(because I am thinking if I help them get a business going it will be less dough I will have to shell out in the future). But this is outrageous to think that this woman who I married thinks it is better for me to give her family money than it is for me to be comfortable when I come home.

Why offer to give money free? Free money carries no responsibility, and generally therefore is used for pointless purposes - witness the money govt chucks around; since it isn't the civil servants' money, they couldn't care less about it. Ditto for you funding a pig farm. Unless you can see evidence they know what they are doing, this will end up like the typical farang funded project - a disaster because so many farang think the problem why the Thai family aren't rich is because they don't have capital. The problem is not that at all. THe problem is that the Thai family you fund have no business skills and specifically budgeting and planning most likely. The charity projects I have worked on, we always always always make sure we understand that working with the poor in Thailand is not a case of giving them money, but is a case of giving them the skills to manage what they receive.

In many villages, the foreigners are considered to be headstrong, rich and yet fairly naive and easy to take advantage of, primarily because they can be asked for things so easily. In future.... no giving money away easily.

>>I thought that when you marry you become the most important thing to each other.

>>Is it normal behavior for a Thai woman to put her family before her spouse? I have a hard time believeing that would be the case if I was I Thai male and not a farang.

Absolutely normal no matter who the spouse is (Thai or farang or other foreigner); the family is usually very important and more important than the spouse. Even more so in the case of a foreign partner, where in many cases there is an implicit understanding that part of the reason for getting involved with someone who can't speak Thai, doesn't understand the culture and so on (this from the Thai woman's perspective) is traded off against money, financial well being and support for the family. With no social welfare in place (well there is 30 baht healthcare, handouts around elections, cheap loans but not much else) for the rural population, support comes from the village and the family. The World Bank noted that it was strong family ties that helped Thailand survive the financial meltdown a few years back; so yes, you will always be second to the family. Accept it.

>>I am not in the business of taking care of health people nor will I be for much longer.

Fine. If you are not happy, then I suggest that you need to take a good look at your options. You have set up a pattern of giving and the family are now like a pot plant with you providing the water. What you wanted was for them to be like a tree planted in the ground, where they could grow and stand themselves. but for a variety of reasons, you are not in that situation.

You might be aware that healthcare is 30 baht for EVERYTHING here; even counting payoffs to doctors, we are talking thousands of baht for pretty serious surgery and stuff; not hundreds of thousands.... I'd be curiuos to know what hospital, there might be a skim going on here.

To summarise....

You can now choose to stop supporting them, have a big fight farang style and your marriage will probably not recover. Big fights are how the air is cleared in some western countries; the two arguing come to a consensus. By comparison Thailand operates on a series of avoidance tactics, and if you can understand that, then you can be a better negotiator (which is what this is). She brings this relationship you want. You bring the money to support her family and her lifestyle.

or

You can use a face save; explain that somehow your own family demand that you have to buy an apartment here so they can come visit; use the 'higher authority' tactic - family is great because they can be irrational and you have to do what your mum/dad says - Thai people can understand that. This ties up your money, and you promise to pay for the pig farm in the future, but you have just enough money to send the father to learn about piggery ?! - there are a number of courses which if you post in the Isaan forum I am sure you'll find. Let her help pick it out etc etc.

She may be aware that you are playing the game, but it is an almost unbeatable card to play 'the nuts' of a Thai negotiation so to speak.

There are a number of other ways I could respond to this, because I see a fair share of guys who get taken to the cleaners. But I also see genuine love clouded by the cultural divide, and I'm loathe to comment on which applies here. Either way, there is a big gap between Thai and American culture; even more so if she is from the country.

Learn Thai, understand the culture and things will start to become clearer.

Best of luck.

[Patex]

Augustus(Troll??),

Make her 2-3 babys and she will get a very new view about family, than, a bigger place would also be handy .

For the pig farm: Nothing wrong about it but don't give the money for free, let him your investment pay back ( don't forget the intrest ) this will save Poo's face, he wouldn't feel like sponging on a filthy American.

Patex

[Totster]

I'm so lucky...

I liked the post from steveromagnino... seems sensible advice..

Best of luck ..

totster

[Wash]

This sounds like one of those 90/10 marriages instead of 60/40 (there isn't anything called 50/50).

You are stuck by your already to generous and considerate nature and will be the cash cow for this lady as long as you allow it to continue.

It sounds to me like a blow up is just what is called for and this inconsiderate and money grabbing useless lady needs to be relegated to the has been file quickly.

Next on her list is a new pickup for Papa to haul the pigs to market in and you can plan on being expected to buy it for him soon. There will also be the need to buy more land since the original land is not enough to take care of the room the pigs need, and of course the outbuildings you will have to build to take care of the feed and by the way he does already need some more baht for the feed.

Get out of this mess quickly and get into the condo or space you want to live in and find a Thai lady that is worthy of you. There are far too many great ladies to put up with this one.

My sympathy and wishes for good luck to you.

[Simmo]

You're being worked

... dump her ...

find a new girl.

rinse and repeat.

[Thetyim]

Excellent post from steveromagnino.

I was milked for many years by ex-wife and family.

I wish I was given his advice 10 years ago.

[creation2474]

I am married to a Thai woman. We will have been married since April. I paid a bride price, had a ceremony Thai style, and all that. But I am unable to get her family out of my pocket for some reason. I am American and I do understand the importance of family and realize that if you are able to help then you should. I just spent a pill helping my wife sick grandma it the hospital for about 6 weeks getting proper care treatment and diagnosis. I felt good for doing that and dont regret it one bit. I recently told my wife that I want to get a bigger place (I cannot stand the small flat and I can afford pretty much anything I want) at least something with the bedroom seperate. She went into a tirade about me thinking because I have so much money I can do what I want (Being the filthy American that I am I do believe that if you can afford it and want it GET IT) We went back and forth about this for a few days with her main reasons for not wanting it being it is too much to clean, it will take away from money you save, you think you are a big shot. My main reasons where/are I work in the middle east (war zone), I want ot be able to come home to a comfortably sized living area (something bigger than my hooch in the field), I can afford it. After three days of bickering back and foth I finally relented and said never mind I will just stay in the small flat until I save enough for a condo. In this same coversation in wich I relented  not a full 60 seconds after I said never mind she brings up the idea to give her father 2000 usd to start a pig farm. Me being the dumb ass I am said OK (because I am thinking if I help them get a business going it will be less dough I will have to shell out in the future). But this is outrageous to think that this woman who I married thinks it is better for me to give her family money than it is for me to be comfortable when I come home.  I am very frustrated with the concept that her families well being and happiness is more important than mine. I thought that when you marry you become the most important thing to each other. I get the sneeky suspicion that the whole reason behind her arguments about my larger room was becasue she already told them I would cough op the 2k for the farm and me getting the larger room might spoil her plans for them. Is it normal behavior for a Thai woman to put her family before her spouse? I have a hard time believeing that would be the case if I was I Thai male and not a farang. So any suggestions on how to handle this? I am preparing for a confrontation and I want to make sure I understand all the angles. What really upsets me is that I am certian my well being and confort is second to theirs in her eyes. I cannot be with someone who cannot put my needs and desires first (same as I would hers) and I am sure I said this at least 2 million times before we got married. So what should I do? I dont want a divorce. I just want the same respect any other filthly capitalist scum would want from his significant other and I am not in the business of taking care of health people nor will I be for much longer.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Divorce her.

[creation2474]

I would say you simply need to draw the lines, and let the chips fall where they may. Else you'll be a cash cow for the rest of your life.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Don't know this specific woman, but i have tried something like this and with her (my previous wife) there was absolutely nothing to do. I could have been drawing lines forever. It's not very easy to change a person.

[Totster]

To all saying divorce.. there is a thing called love involved...

maybe he should follow advice first and leave drastic action till last..

totster

[chuchok]

To all saying divorce.. there is a thing called love involved...

maybe he should follow advice first and leave drastic action till last..

totster 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Move into a REALLY expensive place and spend some serious dosh on yourself.

Wait for reaction......then kick her to touch.

[Thetyim]

To all saying divorce.. there is a thing called love involved...

maybe he should follow advice first and leave drastic action till last..

totster 

Agreed.

Follow Steves advice and then decide.

But don't do what I did and be milked for ten years because you love her.

[Noel]

I would say you simply need to draw the lines, and let the chips fall where they may. Else you'll be a cash cow for the rest of your life.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

How can I draw the line with out a major blow up?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If you do not do it now it will only get worse.

She already seems to have drawn her lines, so high time for you to draw yours.

Just going on the limited info you have supplied, I would lay the law down in no uncertain terms.

If she doesn't like it and continues with her strident stance then it will be rather obvious as to what she really feels for you.

The worst being the case, clear off and leave her to it.

By the sound of it you have not 'invested' a lot of cash in the relationship, unless you were suckered into a stupidly high sin sot.

That is clearly gone anyway.

Reverse the logic of the 'Up to you!' mantra on her, then vote with your wallet and your feet...

[britmaveric]

Seems to me - you started off on the wrong foot. (dowery, now costant infusion of dosh to family) I think you need to grow a set and lay down the law. There is nothing wrong with helping out her family, but lets we sensible here you need to take care of the things in your own life first.

[edd]

The problems easily solved

get her a nice heavy job.

Now SHE can send the family ALL her money and you can live the life you deserve.

When it comes time for HER to hand over the money that SHE has worked for it will be a different story

[Stephen Cleary]

Exactly, just as i mentioned in another forum.

When you marry in Thailand, you marry into a family.

All financial matters have to be arranged before you get married, that is Thai-style.

[billd766]

Well it is difficult to give advice as I am in a position a little like yours except that.

1. I have known my wife for over 12 years and married for more than 5 so we had what you might call enough time to know more about each other.

2. My wife already had some land and was not soo close to her parents. I bought extra land, the pick up as her Nissan Sunny was fairly old already (but it still goes very well).

3. We built the house up country about 400 km from her parents and we also built a smaller house for my wife to live in until the main house was completed.

4. Her parents are welcome any time but they usually only stay for a week or so and they did not require a pig farm etc. However since we came back here to live in 2001 I have been sending her parents 6,000 baht a month as they are retired and live in Samut Prakan and yes some of it goes to pay for their pick up too. However they are also looking after my wifes neice and nephew whose parents are no longer around and also her youngest brother who is about 10 satang short of a baht. He is a nice guy as long as he keeps on his medication.

5. Her middle brother, his wife and son live with us as he lost his job. His wife is starting to sell food in the local village as they have no income and she is feeling a bit guilty for living with us for free.

6. I have no problem with this arrangement as everybody helps out each other doing what they can and after all they are family.

7. Yes my wife puts her family first before me and there are days when it realy does piss me off but I still love her very much and I just live with it. One advantage of living in the country is that we have a few dogs and things get bad I can always kick one of them, and if it gets worse I go and kick the neighbours dogs instead.

One of the facts of life that nobody tells you about in a relationship between foreigners which is what most of us are is that Thais put family before all especially girls from out of the big cities, because after all the family has supported them all the time of growing up and it is the "thing" (I can't think of the right words) that they do.

In the west we tend to put our parents in "assisted accommodation" when they get old and we go to see them once a week or so.

Here in Thailand they tend to have their parents live with them and take care of them until they die. It also works for us farangs too if we are in a loving relationship as my wife and our son will look after me when I get old.

I change his pampers now, he changes mine later in life. (Oh sweet revenge)

Can I suggest that you buy a book called

Thailand Fever by Chris Pirazzi and Vitida Vasant

A Road Map for Thai-Western Relationships

In both English and Thai on facing pages

You've met the perfect Thai woman. You're dizzy with joy as her exotic world swirls around you. You've heard so many horror stories, but your heart tells you that she's for real. You want to understand her mysterious ways, and you wish she could understand yours. Now, there's help...

Thailand Fever is an astonishing, one-of-a-kind, bilingual expose of the cultural secrets that are the key to a smooth Thai–Western relationship.

Thailand Fever speaks to both of you in your native languages. Everything in the book is in both Thai and English

Thailand Fever is the must-have relationship guidebook which lets each of you finally express complex issues by just pointing across the page! See for yourself in detail: Click below on the related websites link to look at the first 35 pages of the book, including the Table of Contents and the first two chapters.

Whether you met in a bar, in a university, or at work, and whether you met last night or a decade ago, Thailand Fever covers your issues:

Trust

Sex

It's My Money

The Parents

The Dowry

Privacy

Independence

Saving Face

Living in Paradise

Paiboon Publishing 2004

Paperback

ISBN 1887521488

257 pages

Get your wife to read it as well.

I had been married for quite a while before I read it and I learnt things from that I wish I had known a long time ago.

Finally I wish you the best of luck in your marriage as I was also working overseas and coming back to Thailand every so often. Now I am semi retired and I live here full time unless some kind person gives me a job.

[thaivisitor]

I am married to a Thai woman. We will have been married since April. I paid a bride price, had a ceremony Thai style, and all that. But I am unable to get her family out of my pocket for some reason. I am American and I do understand the importance of family and realize that if you are able to help then you should. I just spent a pill helping my wife sick grandma it the hospital for about 6 weeks getting proper care treatment and diagnosis. I felt good for doing that and dont regret it one bit. I recently told my wife that I want to get a bigger place (I cannot stand the small flat and I can afford pretty much anything I want) at least something with the bedroom seperate. She went into a tirade about me thinking because I have so much money I can do what I want (Being the filthy American that I am I do believe that if you can afford it and want it GET IT) We went back and forth about this for a few days with her main reasons for not wanting it being it is too much to clean, it will take away from money you save, you think you are a big shot. My main reasons where/are I work in the middle east (war zone), I want ot be able to come home to a comfortably sized living area (something bigger than my hooch in the field), I can afford it. After three days of bickering back and foth I finally relented and said never mind I will just stay in the small flat until I save enough for a condo. In this same coversation in wich I relented  not a full 60 seconds after I said never mind she brings up the idea to give her father 2000 usd to start a pig farm. Me being the dumb ass I am said OK (because I am thinking if I help them get a business going it will be less dough I will have to shell out in the future). But this is outrageous to think that this woman who I married thinks it is better for me to give her family money than it is for me to be comfortable when I come home.  I am very frustrated with the concept that her families well being and happiness is more important than mine. I thought that when you marry you become the most important thing to each other. I get the sneeky suspicion that the whole reason behind her arguments about my larger room was becasue she already told them I would cough op the 2k for the farm and me getting the larger room might spoil her plans for them. Is it normal behavior for a Thai woman to put her family before her spouse? I have a hard time believeing that would be the case if I was I Thai male and not a farang. So any suggestions on how to handle this? I am preparing for a confrontation and I want to make sure I understand all the angles. What really upsets me is that I am certian my well being and confort is second to theirs in her eyes. I cannot be with someone who cannot put my needs and desires first (same as I would hers) and I am sure I said this at least 2 million times before we got married. So what should I do? I dont want a divorce. I just want the same respect any other filthly capitalist scum would want from his significant other and I am not in the business of taking care of health people nor will I be for much longer.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I sympathize with you and I believe that many has been in, are in or will be in your shoes. You, there is a difference in your spouse putting her family before you and not even considering for you. From the way you describe, you are not even in second place.

When you put out your problem, you already knew what the general advice will be which is normally the most logical advice. The problem with people asking for advices is that they already have in mind a certain course of actions to take, which is normally the wrong course. But they post out asking, hoping that some people will encourage them in the course they have decided (That's why you stated you don't want a divorce).

I told my wife (a Thai) of your situation, and her answer is also the same. Divorce her, you deserve better. Question is, will you do it?

Edited December 27, 2005 by thaivisitor

[dereklev]

I'm so lucky...

I liked the post from steveromagnino... seems sensible advice..

Best of luck ..

totster 

Me too, me too...lucky and advice.

Chok Dee Kap..

Derek

[orchis]

You work in a warzone so it's no luxury to want to

have a bigger place to live, but somehow the lodging of

pigs seems more important to your wife. Hello?

[OlRedEyes]

I would say you simply need to draw the lines, and let the chips fall where they may. Else you'll be a cash cow for the rest of your life.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Don't know this specific woman, but i have tried something like this and with her (my previous wife) there was absolutely nothing to do. I could have been drawing lines forever. It's not very easy to change a person.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Drawing a line means you are willing to take the consequences.

Or, if you are inclined to live a life of ducking and diving, effectively constantly lying to your wife, you could do what Steve suggests. Could work well, but prepare to hide money forever. Not the way I would choose to live.

[gburns57au]

As far as she is concerned the lines are drawn already.....you are going to have on he!! of a job changing the lines.

If you hadnt of been so liberal with your money in the first place then you wouldnt be having this problem now.

I predict bigger trouble when you stop working in your war zone well paid job.

[OlRedEyes]

As far as she is concerned the lines are drawn already.....you are going to have on he!! of a job changing the lines.

If you hadnt of been so liberal with your money in the first place then you wouldnt be having this problem now.

I predict bigger trouble when you stop working in your war zone well paid job.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Agreed. sadly. I'd pray for you, but I have no-one to pray to

[TizMe]

I would suggest that you put your wife on a budget. Give her whatever you think is fair. Then if she wants money to give her family, it has to come out of her budget. She is more likely to then screen the worthwhile causes from the scams.

[rishi]

If you want a good, loving Thai wife, who respects you, it doesn't suffice to be generous and easy to handle - you'll also have to live up to your role as a husband. This includes putting down, your foot - and take the unavoidable confrontation with your wife as a man.

It is not too late to establish the proper financial arrangement, but your wife will fight to keep the advantages she's got. Take the confrontations, but act wisely.

The way we've arranged matters around here is that my wife and I has agreed on a reasonable allowance, and what it is supposed to cover. The coverage includes family "gifts" and all those silly things Thai women find so important but that I hate to pay. Her initial expectations weren't quite reasonable but after a few confrontations involving threats of divorce (from both partees) and smashed glasses, plates, and even threatening kitchen knives etc. (from one partee) we are both satisfied with respect to finances... (And I feel even more loved than before those fights).

Figure out what you think is a reasonable amount to offer your wife and her family. Don't be too stingy and don't be too generous. Tell your wife what you have decided - after you have removed all knives, scissors and the like from within her reach - there'll be a fight.

If your wife is nothing but a golddigger, you'll probably loose her - be happy to loose her while you still have some money left.

If she's a descent woman - who is merely performing her family duty, by easing off as much cash as she can convince you to depart with - she can only respect you for standing strong, because now you (finally) have started to act as a real husband (provided you actually are reasonable in your financial decissions).