Investing In Condos: Your Opinion

[w11guy]

I'd be interested to know where appreciation is currently 10% pa.

Prime London areas like K&C, Westminster are growing at 10%+ per year. Typical of Notting Hill - 2009 375K, now 550K. This appreciation is amazing. Lots of French and Greek people leaving their own countries and looking for a safe place for their money. Also tons of money pouring in from Russia and Asia. Prime London is a fantastic place to invest for the long term.

[cheeryble]

Agree with you somewhat W11guy

But also wonder about the metapicture, that information technology is removing the need for geographic location for a proportion of people who would before have had no alternative to that W11 flat or house. This trend will increase just as online shopping has increased.

Would also say it's a real pain renting out property that's not just down the road.

[meand]

Strolling: what's wrong with property investment in Thailand? I understand a foreigner can't own land/house, but no such issues with owning a condo.

The country is far too unstable in the long term.

Future visa laws?

When the inevitable/unspeakable happens?

Long-term social and political instability.

As the Thais say, 'Thailand is for the Thais'... Rent, enjoy your life here, just don't get overly involved or start investing what you'll cry over if you lose.

And a foreigner can own a house. Just not the land it's built on unless they 'invest' 40 million baht.

But those things can happen in any country, including the USA/UK. USA property prices have crashed in recent years. Personally I think you'd get a better return in UK, but Thailand is a growing economy and has great long-term prospects. I know people on TV love to slag off everything Thai, but the US, UK and others have made a complete mess of their economies and will still be paying off all the money lost for the next 100 years or more. The UK is still paying back what it borrowed for the 1st World Word, and that was almost 100 years ago.

I agree. And when the <deleted> really starts hitting the fan, ie when the bailouts are actually felt, I think we will be looking at a whole new paradigm on how to best run a country, and it will rightfully involve a lot less credit and spending, and a lot more belt tightening, and hopefully less government.

[think_too_mut]

Agree with you somewhat W11guy

But also wonder about the metapicture, that information technology is removing the need for geographic location for a proportion of people who would before have had no alternative to that W11 flat or house. This trend will increase just as online shopping has increased.

Would also say it's a real pain renting out property that's not just down the road.

That trend has actually contributed the high prices in the central areas. Who could get money from "working from home, from anywhere", went about most desirable locations the "old economy" has always liked.

[soomak]

Entirely in tune with Khun Jean....

my earlier post in another thread may even add a bit to his intelligent recommendation of the better older buildings:

"Some thoughts:

1. The older condos tend to have the prime positions

2. New condos charging much higher monthly fees (despite having no renovations required)

3. Farang are usually selling to farang (as the 50% is full or near) so no Thai cultural requirement that it must be new property

4. People are concerned about how a new buy will turn out. If not they should be. As with moo bahns they do not know if it will sell out (essential for the financial wellbeing of the block) what the power structure will be (unless you are happy with the developer ruling the roost, sometimes egregiously and possibly "finishing off" the condo from your fees. Residents need to know they will have power, there are well known cases where the developer retains power and uses it egregiously). Threads on here even show people are concerned about losing their deposits.

5. Oh! For the price of a new condo with very mediocre finish you can probably find or do a very high quality renovation in an established block. (and for all the bling, when you get inside these new places the finish ain't great. Typically laminated floors instead of real parquet or marble, the cheapest of cheap door surrounds, not enough electrics etc etc)

6. Established condos will also sell based on their rentability, which given some of the advantages above should be on a pretty even playing field with new."

Cheeryble

About the better location of older condos, I disagree:

Around the BTS On-nut area, they are building two new condos, maybe 100 meters from the BTS station, and the same distance from Lotus. great location imho. There is another one already finished right behind the BTS station.

Same in the Prakanong station, there are three new condos (one large, two small ones) being constructed about a minute walk from the BTS station.

[trogers]

About the better location of older condos, I disagree:

Around the BTS On-nut area, they are building two new condos, maybe 100 meters from the BTS station, and the same distance from Lotus. great location imho. There is another one already finished right behind the BTS station.

Same in the Prakanong station, there are three new condos (one large, two small ones) being constructed about a minute walk from the BTS station.

Seems you have forgotten high school physics. Bangkok is famous for its air and noise pollution. A condo located 100 metres from the source of the pollution suffers only 1% of the condo located just 10 metres from the source.

[ExpatJ]

Tips/issues:

Better to own a small number of expensive properties to rent out than many small units- because as you get older, chasing up tenants, maintenance, issues, finding tenants for several small properties will become a real burden. Also, Japanese and Korean tenants are by far better to have than farang or Thai- they pay their bills on time, dont cause problems. More expensive units will attract Japanese/korean tenants.

Will be difficult to get more than 6% return but getting cash returns monthly for an investment is great and cant be found in other investment products e.g. equities, bonds etc.

Only invest in rental condos if you can afford to pay cash in full for the property. Don't get mortgages/loans- if you have difficulties finding tenants for periods of time, its less of an issue if you have fully paid for the property (and a lot less stress)

Long term (15 years +) Bangkok will be an excellent market to own property in- expect central areas of Bangkok to be like singapore, Hong kong in terms of wealthy population and property prices.

Generally speaking, posters on Thaivisa who rule out investing in Thailand citing tremendous risk generally don't have the money to invest themselves and use this as a coping mechanism to deal with the fact that they are unable to invest :-)

[davejones]

Agree with you somewhat W11guy

But also wonder about the metapicture, that information technology is removing the need for geographic location for a proportion of people who would before have had no alternative to that W11 flat or house. This trend will increase just as online shopping has increased.

Would also say it's a real pain renting out property that's not just down the road.

People don't live in W11 because of work; they live there because it's one of the best areas in the whole world to live. I worked from home and chose to live there, as do many others I know. People with money don't need to move to cheap areas.

Property prices in prime London areas, including Notting Hill (W11) have increased 49% in the last 3 years (2009-2012).

[davejones]

Entirely in tune with Khun Jean....

my earlier post in another thread may even add a bit to his intelligent recommendation of the better older buildings:

"Some thoughts:

1. The older condos tend to have the prime positions

2. New condos charging much higher monthly fees (despite having no renovations required)

3. Farang are usually selling to farang (as the 50% is full or near) so no Thai cultural requirement that it must be new property

4. People are concerned about how a new buy will turn out. If not they should be. As with moo bahns they do not know if it will sell out (essential for the financial wellbeing of the block) what the power structure will be (unless you are happy with the developer ruling the roost, sometimes egregiously and possibly "finishing off" the condo from your fees. Residents need to know they will have power, there are well known cases where the developer retains power and uses it egregiously). Threads on here even show people are concerned about losing their deposits.

5. Oh! For the price of a new condo with very mediocre finish you can probably find or do a very high quality renovation in an established block. (and for all the bling, when you get inside these new places the finish ain't great. Typically laminated floors instead of real parquet or marble, the cheapest of cheap door surrounds, not enough electrics etc etc)

6. Established condos will also sell based on their rentability, which given some of the advantages above should be on a pretty even playing field with new."

Cheeryble

About the better location of older condos, I disagree:

Around the BTS On-nut area, they are building two new condos, maybe 100 meters from the BTS station, and the same distance from Lotus. great location imho. There is another one already finished right behind the BTS station.

Same in the Prakanong station, there are three new condos (one large, two small ones) being constructed about a minute walk from the BTS station.

They are terrible locations. Who would want to live in a dump like that. Also, there is far more supply than demand. Plenty of empty condos that can't be rented.

[trogers]

There is a potential big problem in new condo developments comprising mainly small units - many units being owned by speculators. The big problem will arise once the lump sum payments for 2 years of common fund have been used up and units owners need to make monthly payments to the fund.

History will repeat, like those developments completed in the 80's and 90's.

[rgs2001uk]

Entirely in tune with Khun Jean....

my earlier post in another thread may even add a bit to his intelligent recommendation of the better older buildings:

"Some thoughts:

1. The older condos tend to have the prime positions

2. New condos charging much higher monthly fees (despite having no renovations required)

3. Farang are usually selling to farang (as the 50% is full or near) so no Thai cultural requirement that it must be new property

4. People are concerned about how a new buy will turn out. If not they should be. As with moo bahns they do not know if it will sell out (essential for the financial wellbeing of the block) what the power structure will be (unless you are happy with the developer ruling the roost, sometimes egregiously and possibly "finishing off" the condo from your fees. Residents need to know they will have power, there are well known cases where the developer retains power and uses it egregiously). Threads on here even show people are concerned about losing their deposits.

5. Oh! For the price of a new condo with very mediocre finish you can probably find or do a very high quality renovation in an established block. (and for all the bling, when you get inside these new places the finish ain't great. Typically laminated floors instead of real parquet or marble, the cheapest of cheap door surrounds, not enough electrics etc etc)

6. Established condos will also sell based on their rentability, which given some of the advantages above should be on a pretty even playing field with new."

Cheeryble

About the better location of older condos, I disagree:

Around the BTS On-nut area, they are building two new condos, maybe 100 meters from the BTS station, and the same distance from Lotus. great location imho. There is another one already finished right behind the BTS station.

Same in the Prakanong station, there are three new condos (one large, two small ones) being constructed about a minute walk from the BTS station.

They are terrible locations. Who would want to live in a dump like that. Also, there is far more supply than demand. Plenty of empty condos that can't be rented.

"Plenty of empty condos that can't be rented."

There are plenty of condos that can be rented, the problem lies with the owner thinking he can return his outlay in 8 years, or the old 1/100th rule, you aint in Kansas now Dot.

Speculators or dumb farang paying over the odds for his box in Prakhanong.

Just check out some of the adds on TV, people wanting 3 times the price for a shoebox that can be rented across the road, the one across the road is probably bigger, better finished, better sound insulated, etc etc, and cheaper monthly fees.

Each to their own.

[davejones]

Entirely in tune with Khun Jean....

my earlier post in another thread may even add a bit to his intelligent recommendation of the better older buildings:

"Some thoughts:

1. The older condos tend to have the prime positions

2. New condos charging much higher monthly fees (despite having no renovations required)

3. Farang are usually selling to farang (as the 50% is full or near) so no Thai cultural requirement that it must be new property

4. People are concerned about how a new buy will turn out. If not they should be. As with moo bahns they do not know if it will sell out (essential for the financial wellbeing of the block) what the power structure will be (unless you are happy with the developer ruling the roost, sometimes egregiously and possibly "finishing off" the condo from your fees. Residents need to know they will have power, there are well known cases where the developer retains power and uses it egregiously). Threads on here even show people are concerned about losing their deposits.

5. Oh! For the price of a new condo with very mediocre finish you can probably find or do a very high quality renovation in an established block. (and for all the bling, when you get inside these new places the finish ain't great. Typically laminated floors instead of real parquet or marble, the cheapest of cheap door surrounds, not enough electrics etc etc)

6. Established condos will also sell based on their rentability, which given some of the advantages above should be on a pretty even playing field with new."

Cheeryble

About the better location of older condos, I disagree:

Around the BTS On-nut area, they are building two new condos, maybe 100 meters from the BTS station, and the same distance from Lotus. great location imho. There is another one already finished right behind the BTS station.

Same in the Prakanong station, there are three new condos (one large, two small ones) being constructed about a minute walk from the BTS station.

They are terrible locations. Who would want to live in a dump like that. Also, there is far more supply than demand. Plenty of empty condos that can't be rented.

"Plenty of empty condos that can't be rented."

There are plenty of condos that can be rented, the problem lies with the owner thinking he can return his outlay in 8 years, or the old 1/100th rule, you aint in Kansas now Dot.

Speculators or dumb farang paying over the odds for his box in Prakhanong.

Just check out some of the adds on TV, people wanting 3 times the price for a shoebox that can be rented across the road, the one across the road is probably bigger, better finished, better sound insulated, etc etc, and cheaper monthly fees.

Each to their own.

Of course there are plenty of condos rented; that is obvious. But it is also obvious that supply far outstrips demand. Many condos build in 2010 are still unsold. Even if prices were dropped they's still be empty because there aren't enough people to buy or rent them. Far too many have been built. Yes, plenty of stupid speculators around - not all farang though. Most of the overpriced properties I've seen are Thai owned. Farangs are more likely to drop the price to get a sale or rental.

[trogers]

There are plenty of condos that can be rented, the problem lies with the owner thinking he can return his outlay in 8 years, or the old 1/100th rule, you aint in Kansas now Dot.

The bubble for these shoebox condo units have already burst. Rental yields have fallen below 5% pa since late last year due to both oversupply in the rental market and increase in property prices.

Perhaps a quote from Warren Buffett may be a wakeup guide to the new investor:

"For some reason people take their cues from price action rather than from values. Price is what you pay. Value is what you get."

[davejones]

Perhaps a quote from Warren Buffett may be a wakeup guide to the new investor:

"For some reason people take their cues from price action rather than from values. Price is what you pay. Value is what you get."

Excellent quote, and so true.

[travelmann]

Entirely in tune with Khun Jean....

my earlier post in another thread may even add a bit to his intelligent recommendation of the better older buildings:

"Some thoughts:

1. The older condos tend to have the prime positions

2. New condos charging much higher monthly fees (despite having no renovations required)

3. Farang are usually selling to farang (as the 50% is full or near) so no Thai cultural requirement that it must be new property

4. People are concerned about how a new buy will turn out. If not they should be. As with moo bahns they do not know if it will sell out (essential for the financial wellbeing of the block) what the power structure will be (unless you are happy with the developer ruling the roost, sometimes egregiously and possibly "finishing off" the condo from your fees. Residents need to know they will have power, there are well known cases where the developer retains power and uses it egregiously). Threads on here even show people are concerned about losing their deposits.

5. Oh! For the price of a new condo with very mediocre finish you can probably find or do a very high quality renovation in an established block. (and for all the bling, when you get inside these new places the finish ain't great. Typically laminated floors instead of real parquet or marble, the cheapest of cheap door surrounds, not enough electrics etc etc)

6. Established condos will also sell based on their rentability, which given some of the advantages above should be on a pretty even playing field with new."

Cheeryble

About the better location of older condos, I disagree:

Around the BTS On-nut area, they are building two new condos, maybe 100 meters from the BTS station, and the same distance from Lotus. great location imho. There is another one already finished right behind the BTS station.

Same in the Prakanong station, there are three new condos (one large, two small ones) being constructed about a minute walk from the BTS station.

And the prices are way too high to get a decent return ie 2million+ for 10k a month rent.................if you go and ask them the prices you will see, Ideo are building like crazy then theres Blocs 77, Diamond Sukhumvit and a new LPN further down suk77 past the current lpn 77. Best prices are without pools such as the two "My Condos" close to bts On Nut in Suk 81 and 52

More money to be made acting now as an agent in fact this is what my wife does and pulls in more than 150K alone each month off this and one reason we sold some of our rooms. She knows which buildings are any good and what does and doesnt rent easy.

[travelmann]

There are plenty of condos that can be rented, the problem lies with the owner thinking he can return his outlay in 8 years, or the old 1/100th rule, you aint in Kansas now Dot.

The bubble for these shoebox condo units have already burst. Rental yields have fallen below 5% pa since late last year due to both oversupply in the rental market and increase in property prices.

Perhaps a quote from Warren Buffett may be a wakeup guide to the new investor:

"For some reason people take their cues from price action rather than from values. Price is what you pay. Value is what you get."

That depends how and when you bought as I mentioned, a friend recently bought some 30m2 units for a very good 1.5 million each just 100 metres from the BTS close to On Nut area. The price has since been put up but in general yes yields are down and I would not buy in at the moment.

[travelmann]

Entirely in tune with Khun Jean....

my earlier post in another thread may even add a bit to his intelligent recommendation of the better older buildings:

"Some thoughts:

1. The older condos tend to have the prime positions

2. New condos charging much higher monthly fees (despite having no renovations required)

3. Farang are usually selling to farang (as the 50% is full or near) so no Thai cultural requirement that it must be new property

4. People are concerned about how a new buy will turn out. If not they should be. As with moo bahns they do not know if it will sell out (essential for the financial wellbeing of the block) what the power structure will be (unless you are happy with the developer ruling the roost, sometimes egregiously and possibly "finishing off" the condo from your fees. Residents need to know they will have power, there are well known cases where the developer retains power and uses it egregiously). Threads on here even show people are concerned about losing their deposits.

5. Oh! For the price of a new condo with very mediocre finish you can probably find or do a very high quality renovation in an established block. (and for all the bling, when you get inside these new places the finish ain't great. Typically laminated floors instead of real parquet or marble, the cheapest of cheap door surrounds, not enough electrics etc etc)

6. Established condos will also sell based on their rentability, which given some of the advantages above should be on a pretty even playing field with new."

Cheeryble

About the better location of older condos, I disagree:

Around the BTS On-nut area, they are building two new condos, maybe 100 meters from the BTS station, and the same distance from Lotus. great location imho. There is another one already finished right behind the BTS station.

Same in the Prakanong station, there are three new condos (one large, two small ones) being constructed about a minute walk from the BTS station.

They are terrible locations. Who would want to live in a dump like that. Also, there is far more supply than demand. Plenty of empty condos that can't be rented.

"Plenty of empty condos that can't be rented."

There are plenty of condos that can be rented, the problem lies with the owner thinking he can return his outlay in 8 years, or the old 1/100th rule, you aint in Kansas now Dot.

Speculators or dumb farang paying over the odds for his box in Prakhanong.

Just check out some of the adds on TV, people wanting 3 times the price for a shoebox that can be rented across the road, the one across the road is probably bigger, better finished, better sound insulated, etc etc, and cheaper monthly fees.

Each to their own.

I got my money back in less than 7 years, now it would not be possible with current prices and oversupply and combined exchange rates.

[travelmann]

Entirely in tune with Khun Jean....

my earlier post in another thread may even add a bit to his intelligent recommendation of the better older buildings:

"Some thoughts:

1. The older condos tend to have the prime positions

2. New condos charging much higher monthly fees (despite having no renovations required)

3. Farang are usually selling to farang (as the 50% is full or near) so no Thai cultural requirement that it must be new property

4. People are concerned about how a new buy will turn out. If not they should be. As with moo bahns they do not know if it will sell out (essential for the financial wellbeing of the block) what the power structure will be (unless you are happy with the developer ruling the roost, sometimes egregiously and possibly "finishing off" the condo from your fees. Residents need to know they will have power, there are well known cases where the developer retains power and uses it egregiously). Threads on here even show people are concerned about losing their deposits.

5. Oh! For the price of a new condo with very mediocre finish you can probably find or do a very high quality renovation in an established block. (and for all the bling, when you get inside these new places the finish ain't great. Typically laminated floors instead of real parquet or marble, the cheapest of cheap door surrounds, not enough electrics etc etc)

6. Established condos will also sell based on their rentability, which given some of the advantages above should be on a pretty even playing field with new."

Cheeryble

About the better location of older condos, I disagree:

Around the BTS On-nut area, they are building two new condos, maybe 100 meters from the BTS station, and the same distance from Lotus. great location imho. There is another one already finished right behind the BTS station.

Same in the Prakanong station, there are three new condos (one large, two small ones) being constructed about a minute walk from the BTS station.

They are terrible locations. Who would want to live in a dump like that. Also, there is far more supply than demand. Plenty of empty condos that can't be rented.

That is nothing but "your opinion" and when looking for a rental market your own personal opinions dont count.

I did very well in On Nut for over 6 years with small studio units.

[trogers]

I got my money back in less than 7 years, now it would not be possible with current prices and oversupply and combined exchange rates.

This is what Warren Buffett meant. Buy cheap when value is high, and not to buy when expensive and value is falling. Take you cues from value action and not price action.

[JeffreyMcCollum]

I started doing the same about 10 years ago

you can live well, but not rich, if you invesat right.

Some say not under 28 sq.m but they are thinking of Expat renters, why eleminate 95% of your renter pool ?

Get condos at giveaway prices, Bank repos or those who just want out.

Do the renovation work your self to western standard

Choose your market low end students and cheep Charlies, Middle class, upper end, or vacation renters.

I have made huge money on some, broke even on others, and now started on houses that I have learned a few things.

Have a plan, stick with it, start slowly, and you will be fine.

[davejones]

Strolling: what's wrong with property investment in Thailand? I understand a foreigner can't own land/house, but no such issues with owning a condo.

The country is far too unstable in the long term.

Future visa laws?

When the inevitable/unspeakable happens?

Long-term social and political instability.

As the Thais say, 'Thailand is for the Thais'... Rent, enjoy your life here, just don't get overly involved or start investing what you'll cry over if you lose.

And a foreigner can own a house. Just not the land it's built on unless they 'invest' 40 million baht.

Yes and the West is solid as a rock - I would much rather invest some money in LOS than in the UK / USA or god forbid the EU - I do agree however with your comments regarding land ownership and would not recommend buying a house.

You are very misinformed if you think UK.US/EU are bad places to invest. London prime property has risen 50% in the last three years. Many places in the EU are fantastic places to invest. You seem to be lumping the whole of the EU together as if it's all the same. It's very diverse and parts of it are still doing well. Up to you whether or not yo invest there, but you sound like you base your investments on shock headlines in the newspapers and not on what's happening in reality. If parts of the EU and USA are doing badly then that is a real opportunity to buy. That's where the bargains usually are - great areas going through a bad patch. Prime London - 20% down during 2008, but then bounced back very quickly. People like you were frightened to buy during the 20% discount period. EU and USA property probably offer much better long term prospects than Thailand. For one, the properties there are mostly much higher quality.

Yesterday I went to seem some condos for rent and sale in State Tower. The building is only 10 years old but looking inside you'd think it was 30-40 years old. My 60 year old London condo is in much better condition. State Tower seems badly designed and seems like it's being neglected (think dust all around what should be a stunning atrium. Very dark and dingy inside. That to me sums up the state of building in Thailand. And is why I'd be reluctant to invest in property here, although I would consider the right investment if I found it.

[davejones]

Great advise!

Do you mind sharing a bit more (as much as you are willing) on what areas you look at for some of us newbies who are considering putting some investment dollars into this.

Thanks.

Start with the beginning.

And that means lot and lots of footwork. Stop wasting time looking at realestate websites!!

Driving around in a taxi will not give you the right information, use a taxi to go to an area then walk or hire a motorcy taxi and stop at every place that looks decent. Then talk with management, every condo building has one but they are not always on site. The guard is the best place to start, talk about if he knows empty condo's, prices etc. If people come out of the building and they seem friendly enough ask them some questions about the building. You will here some horror stories, but don't believe it right away, confirm it.

The guards are the guys that know a lot, same like the barber in small villages, those are my favorite places to get 'intel'.

Never be in a hurry, gut feeling is almost never good. This is actually the most difficult because your gut has strong control.

Invest in knowledge, takes at least a year. Be patient, be patient, be patient!!!

I have a good memory but i still write down names of sois, building names, prices for condos i have looked at (over a thousand i estimate in the last 10 years) to establish a fair price for the area and building. Leave telephone numbers and email with security guards and management and promise a commision when there is a good deal. etc, etc.

Al this gives me an edge over 'newbies' on the market so you will understand that i will keep all of that information private, the only information i can give is how i did it, which is only one way of doing it.

I understand Thai but don't speak it, my wife does that for me. In the first years that was extremely difficult because 'i asked too much'. Now i don't have to anymore because she asks all the important ones by herself.

The one area i really need to improve is my ability to speak Thai. I never had the time for it as i always lived on and off in Thailand. Now that i am here permanently (because i earn Thai bahts with those investment) i am signing up for school soon.

If you find more condos than you can afford to buy then you could pass on to other TV members for a finder's fee. Could be a 2nd income for you.

[davejones]

Entirely in tune with Khun Jean....

my earlier post in another thread may even add a bit to his intelligent recommendation of the better older buildings:

"Some thoughts:

1. The older condos tend to have the prime positions

2. New condos charging much higher monthly fees (despite having no renovations required)

3. Farang are usually selling to farang (as the 50% is full or near) so no Thai cultural requirement that it must be new property

4. People are concerned about how a new buy will turn out. If not they should be. As with moo bahns they do not know if it will sell out (essential for the financial wellbeing of the block) what the power structure will be (unless you are happy with the developer ruling the roost, sometimes egregiously and possibly "finishing off" the condo from your fees. Residents need to know they will have power, there are well known cases where the developer retains power and uses it egregiously). Threads on here even show people are concerned about losing their deposits.

5. Oh! For the price of a new condo with very mediocre finish you can probably find or do a very high quality renovation in an established block. (and for all the bling, when you get inside these new places the finish ain't great. Typically laminated floors instead of real parquet or marble, the cheapest of cheap door surrounds, not enough electrics etc etc)

6. Established condos will also sell based on their rentability, which given some of the advantages above should be on a pretty even playing field with new."

Cheeryble

About the better location of older condos, I disagree:

Around the BTS On-nut area, they are building two new condos, maybe 100 meters from the BTS station, and the same distance from Lotus. great location imho. There is another one already finished right behind the BTS station.

Same in the Prakanong station, there are three new condos (one large, two small ones) being constructed about a minute walk from the BTS station.

They are terrible locations. Who would want to live in a dump like that. Also, there is far more supply than demand. Plenty of empty condos that can't be rented.

That is nothing but "your opinion" and when looking for a rental market your own personal opinions dont count.

I did very well in On Nut for over 6 years with small studio units.

I am taking about the situation now with all the new condos being built and the massive oversupply. The area itself is also pretty grim. Yes, it's only my opinion and I'm not claiming it's anyone else's. But from my experience of property investment, these sorts of condos in these sorts of areas are the ones where the novice investors pile in and get unstuck. It is also a fact that there are countless condos for rent that can't be rented. So how well are those owners doing? Yes, my opinion and you can ignore it if you want.

[trogers]

Strolling: what's wrong with property investment in Thailand? I understand a foreigner can't own land/house, but no such issues with owning a condo.

The country is far too unstable in the long term.

Future visa laws?

When the inevitable/unspeakable happens?

Long-term social and political instability.

As the Thais say, 'Thailand is for the Thais'... Rent, enjoy your life here, just don't get overly involved or start investing what you'll cry over if you lose.

And a foreigner can own a house. Just not the land it's built on unless they 'invest' 40 million baht.

Yes and the West is solid as a rock - I would much rather invest some money in LOS than in the UK / USA or god forbid the EU - I do agree however with your comments regarding land ownership and would not recommend buying a house.

You are very misinformed if you think UK.US/EU are bad places to invest. London prime property has risen 50% in the last three years. Many places in the EU are fantastic places to invest. You seem to be lumping the whole of the EU together as if it's all the same. It's very diverse and parts of it are still doing well. Up to you whether or not yo invest there, but you sound like you base your investments on shock headlines in the newspapers and not on what's happening in reality. If parts of the EU and USA are doing badly then that is a real opportunity to buy. That's where the bargains usually are - great areas going through a bad patch. Prime London - 20% down during 2008, but then bounced back very quickly. People like you were frightened to buy during the 20% discount period. EU and USA property probably offer much better long term prospects than Thailand. For one, the properties there are mostly much higher quality.

Yesterday I went to seem some condos for rent and sale in State Tower. The building is only 10 years old but looking inside you'd think it was 30-40 years old. My 60 year old London condo is in much better condition. State Tower seems badly designed and seems like it's being neglected (think dust all around what should be a stunning atrium. Very dark and dingy inside. That to me sums up the state of building in Thailand. And is why I'd be reluctant to invest in property here, although I would consider the right investment if I found it.

The principle of buying cheap and well located properties during a downturn and selling them before the first wave of new development is built is the correct universal investment strategy in real estate, and should be used in any property market or sub-market of any country, bearing in mind the long term ecomomic growth potential of that country/area.

Opportunities will arise after a bubble burst in any country. For Bangkok, the last peak was in 2007. The next buying period may be in 2015-17

[travelmann]

The vast bulk of renters are Thai, what they want is easy bts access +Tesco+ food courts, On Nut has all these.They arent interested in swimming pools.

[Khun Jean]

On nut and especially Phrakanong is changing more quickly every year. Lots of renovations are taking place, it is getting cleaner every year.

Ekkamai is now busy and almost part of the 'center'. Phrakanong is the next.

Thais are getting 'educated' by what they see on tv and from nicer places.

Now they have money left to do something about their living space and the results will be seen in the coming years.

Having a few condo's in these areas will be a good investment in my opinion.

After years of only being able to feed and house themselves Thais are getting ready for some luxury.

This will of course raise prices considerably. Unfortunately a western crisis as is happening now will have its effect.

For how long is anyone's guess.

Edited August 16, 2012 by Khun Jean

[RAZZELL]

Yesterday I went to seem some condos for rent and sale in State Tower. The building is only 10 years old but looking inside you'd think it was 30-40 years old. My 60 year old London condo is in much better condition. State Tower seems badly designed and seems like it's being neglected (think dust all around what should be a stunning atrium. Very dark and dingy inside. That to me sums up the state of building in Thailand. And is why I'd be reluctant to invest in property here, although I would consider the right investment if I found it.

It was actually built before that and left empty after the 1997 crash but finished in 2001. I like the view from Lebua. However, I don't know what represent's better value a condo there or a new one at The River.

(Isn't Saphan Taksin BTS about to close/d?)

RAZZ

Edited August 16, 2012 by RAZZELL

[trogers]

The vast bulk of renters are Thai, what they want is easy bts access +Tesco+ food courts, On Nut has all these.They arent interested in swimming pools.

Agree. My present tenant (japanese/thai couple) of my 2-bedroom unit moved in from behind Tesco almost 2 years ago. Please keep pushing these quality renters in my direction.

[GreenSnapper]

Yesterday I went to seem some condos for rent and sale in State Tower. The building is only 10 years old but looking inside you'd think it was 30-40 years old. My 60 year old London condo is in much better condition. State Tower seems badly designed and seems like it's being neglected (think dust all around what should be a stunning atrium. Very dark and dingy inside. That to me sums up the state of building in Thailand. And is why I'd be reluctant to invest in property here, although I would consider the right investment if I found it.

State Tower is a dump, terrible place. Even for just a visit it is depressing.

Saw a few places for rent, overpriced, neglected and the typical "Big-C trash" furniture. Who wants to live there?

The best thing is the view from the balcony. But that's the only positive to say about the place.

I'm surprised that it is only 10 years old. But it shows Thai maintenance and built quality. I wonder, how many of the condos are either empty or cannot be sold or rent. Must be a lot.

[davejones]

Yesterday I went to seem some condos for rent and sale in State Tower. The building is only 10 years old but looking inside you'd think it was 30-40 years old. My 60 year old London condo is in much better condition. State Tower seems badly designed and seems like it's being neglected (think dust all around what should be a stunning atrium. Very dark and dingy inside. That to me sums up the state of building in Thailand. And is why I'd be reluctant to invest in property here, although I would consider the right investment if I found it.

State Tower is a dump, terrible place. Even for just a visit it is depressing.

Saw a few places for rent, overpriced, neglected and the typical "Big-C trash" furniture. Who wants to live there?

The best thing is the view from the balcony. But that's the only positive to say about the place.

I'm surprised that it is only 10 years old. But it shows Thai maintenance and built quality. I wonder, how many of the condos are either empty or cannot be sold or rent. Must be a lot.

I think the worst thing about the actual condos is that they are long and rectangular in shape. You enter the door and the living room is first (no windows), then kitchen and bathroom (no windows either) and finally the bedroom (balcony and window). The design is really awful. who would want to sit in a dark living room with the lights on all day? Looks to me like they may have been designed as large hotel rooms but then changed to condos because they didn't have enough hotel customers. It's hard to believe that someone got paid to come up with this design and no-one though to question it. My gf said that most Thai people wouldn't live there because the rooms are coffin shaped. LOL It's a very sad and depressing place. I've never been to Lebua and I imagine it's great in that part, but my heart would sink if I booked a 4-star hotel and arrived at the entrance. My initial thought would be that I'd been ripped off. But once inside I suppose the view makes up for the entrance. Could never live there though. Furniture in the rooms I saw were pretty cheap and shoddy. Only way the condos might work is if you bough two next to each other and made them into one so that living room and bedroom both had balconies.