Bkk - Sfo Return Business For 85K...Anything I Should Know?

[craigt3365]

I posted this before:

Upon check-in, I found out my itinerary had been changed. Instead of BKK-NRT-LAX-LAS, it had a diversion to FRESNO between LAX and LAS! I checked in online around 10PM the night before. Somehow, somebody changed my flight after that.

I was just trying to point out the issues that CAN arise with code shares. UA blamed ANA, ANA blamed UA. And it took me hours to get it resolved. Because my outbound was actually on ANA "metal", UA forced me to go over and talk with them. Nowhere on my itinerary was ANA listed. Only UA flight numbers.

I've had this happen many times before. Booking a flight on one airline, only to find out it's actually another. The last two times before it worked out great! Thai Air instead of Air India. Thai Air instead of some obscure Russian airline operating in Moscow. S7 or something like that.

[lomatopo]

Thank you for the heads-up regarding the small possibility of a flight cancellation and how to check on it beforehand. I will definitely do this. When this happens, what is UA's responsibility to the passengers on the flight? Like in my case, I have to leave LOS on the 29th as it's the last day of my visa validity. I assume they try to get you on the later code-share ANA flights to at least get the passenger to NRT, but like you note, many (including me) would have missed onward connections. However, there must be many flights from NRT to SFO per day on which they should be able to find the passenger in question a seat.

There are far too many variables and permutations to go into here. Maybe best not to worry about that until the 28th? Enough to say that the earlier you start working the issue the better off you will be. Your fare bucket, Z, and lack of status does put you in a potentially precarious position in the case of a cancellation. But better not to delve into that issue now. Start checking the flight status of the NRT-BKK flight on May 28 (UA 803) as this is the aircraft you will fly out on the 29th, 24 hours ahead of departure, then click on "where is this aircraft coming from" (typically IAD) to make sure it is on its way. In two cancellations I've been re-routed on NH the day before!, ~ midnight, so a longer lay-over in NRT, but it allowed me to connect with my other flights. The other time I was put on the ~ 8:00 AM NH flight, but got re-routed NRT-SFO-IAD, on the second, later NRT-SFO departure.

UA will not send you off to NRT unless they can move you on to the U.S. after that. I think Thai immigration is accommodating in the case of cancellations? I am pretty sure they give at least a one day grace for anyone?

Edited May 22, 2012 by lomatopo

[FarangBuddha]

Thank you for the heads-up regarding the small possibility of a flight cancellation and how to check on it beforehand. I will definitely do this. When this happens, what is UA's responsibility to the passengers on the flight? Like in my case, I have to leave LOS on the 29th as it's the last day of my visa validity. I assume they try to get you on the later code-share ANA flights to at least get the passenger to NRT, but like you note, many (including me) would have missed onward connections. However, there must be many flights from NRT to SFO per day on which they should be able to find the passenger in question a seat.

There are far too many variables and permutations to go into here. Maybe best not to worry about that until the 28th? Enough to say that the earlier you start working the issue the better off you will be. Your fare bucket, Z, and lack of status does put you in a potentially precarious position in the case of a cancellation. But better not to delve into that issue now. Start checking the flight status of the NRT-BKK flight on May 28 (UA 803) as this is the aircraft you will fly out on the 29th, 24 hours ahead of departure, then click on "where is this aircraft coming from" (typically IAD) to make sure it is on its way. In two cancellations I've been re-routed on NH the day before!, ~ midnight, so a longer lay-over in NRT, but it allowed me to connect with my other flights. The other time I was put on the ~ 8:00 AM NH flight, but got re-routed NRT-SFO-IAD, on the second, later NRT-SFO departure.

UA will not send you off to NRT unless they can move you on to the U.S. after that. I think Thai immigration is accommodating in the case of cancellations? I am pretty sure they give at least a one day grace for anyone?

Not worried...just curious. Anyway, thanks again for all the useful advice.

[USNret]

Some further checking shows Cathay is off the charts at over 150k; Korean and ANA are both around 110k.

What's wierd is this: At JAL's website, they quote the ridiculousness price of 285k (no that's not a typo...JAL Thailand quotes "285k") for business BKK-SFO on my selected date but the online travel agency I'm using (well regarded site in SE Asia) is still quoting 84k (108k all in) on a JAL flight. However, on further investigation, I see there is an 18 hr layover in Tokyo outbound and it looks like at least a 12 hour layover on the return. Still, if one had lots of time and didn't mind living in the JAL business lounge in Haneda for a day or so, it's 1/3 JAL's "normal" price.

So I'm sorta leaning towards United/ANA or Korean. I might give some preference to Korean as I've never been to Inchon airport and hear it's pretty nice.

I've just been through Incheon; the airport is ok. Not magnificent but better than Narita. You can get free wifi around the food court area (if you're lucky & persistent). That's for us losers who don't have a business lounge to hang in.

I'm puzzled by your comment about the JAL lounge at Haneda. Would you connect through Haneda & have to get to Narita from there? It does happen, but usually when connecting with domestic flights within Japan. There is a train link between the two, but I think you have to transfer once during the trip. Maybe there's an airport bus link, too. It's pretty far (an hour?)

If you have a long layover at Narita on your way to the States, and it's during daytime hours I can suggest a quick trip to Narita town nearby. You go to the JR train station in the terminal basement, catch the train right there, go about 2 stops. Ticket is just a few bucks. Narita town is very pleasant; has a great temple with a festival atmosphere. Also, a funky Japanese shopping street with locally made (famous) pastries, candies & roasted nuts of all types. It's touristy, but for Japanese tourists; you'd be one of the few gaijin there. I suggest this on your outbound leg cuz you won't be quite so tired & jet-lagged; on the trip back to Thailand you might not be in the mood to play tourist on your layover. Even a 5 hour layover is enough to comfortably make this side trip, and get back in time for check-in. You can store your bags I think at the ground floor lobby for about $20 with a check-in attendant.

[FarangBuddha]

Some further checking shows Cathay is off the charts at over 150k; Korean and ANA are both around 110k.

What's wierd is this: At JAL's website, they quote the ridiculousness price of 285k (no that's not a typo...JAL Thailand quotes "285k") for business BKK-SFO on my selected date but the online travel agency I'm using (well regarded site in SE Asia) is still quoting 84k (108k all in) on a JAL flight. However, on further investigation, I see there is an 18 hr layover in Tokyo outbound and it looks like at least a 12 hour layover on the return. Still, if one had lots of time and didn't mind living in the JAL business lounge in Haneda for a day or so, it's 1/3 JAL's "normal" price.

So I'm sorta leaning towards United/ANA or Korean. I might give some preference to Korean as I've never been to Inchon airport and hear it's pretty nice.

I've just been through Incheon; the airport is ok. Not magnificent but better than Narita. You can get free wifi around the food court area (if you're lucky & persistent). That's for us losers who don't have a business lounge to hang in.

I'm puzzled by your comment about the JAL lounge at Haneda. Would you connect through Haneda & have to get to Narita from there? It does happen, but usually when connecting with domestic flights within Japan. There is a train link between the two, but I think you have to transfer once during the trip. Maybe there's an airport bus link, too. It's pretty far (an hour?)

If you have a long layover at Narita on your way to the States, and it's during daytime hours I can suggest a quick trip to Narita town nearby. You go to the JR train station in the terminal basement, catch the train right there, go about 2 stops. Ticket is just a few bucks. Narita town is very pleasant; has a great temple with a festival atmosphere. Also, a funky Japanese shopping street with locally made (famous) pastries, candies & roasted nuts of all types. It's touristy, but for Japanese tourists; you'd be one of the few gaijin there. I suggest this on your outbound leg cuz you won't be quite so tired & jet-lagged; on the trip back to Thailand you might not be in the mood to play tourist on your layover. Even a 5 hour layover is enough to comfortably make this side trip, and get back in time for check-in. You can store your bags I think at the ground floor lobby for about $20 with a check-in attendant.

I was surprised by Haneda also as I thought all international flights went through Narita but that was what the JAL itinirary was showing. I think the Tokyo to SFO leg was also out of Haneda as well. I ended up on United, with only a couple hour layover at NRT so don't have much time to kill but thanks for the interesting suggestion of a trip into town if I'm ever there for an extended layover.

[lomatopo]

FWIW, TYO is IATA code for the Tokyo metropolitan airports including NRT and HND.

I think DL flies HND-LAX direct, non-stop; maybe JL used to?

Anyway, I have seen some itineraries which call for a transfer between HND and NRT, which could get messy!

I'd be a bit careful on allotting enough time to get into Narita town as the Immigration lines can be quite lengthy ex-NRT around the UA flight bank times.

BTW, the OP may also get an invite card at check-in in BKK to the UA Arrivals Suite at SFO. Some say that Z fare pax do not get these, some say that as a Z fare pax they have received the invite. It is a good place to stop for a quick snack and they have nice shower facilities. After clearing Immigration, baggage and Customs turn left, follow the signs for the Domestic terminals, before you enter the walkway to the domestic terminals look to the right and go down one level.

http://www.united.com/web/en-US/content/travel/airport/maps/sfo.aspx

Edited May 25, 2012 by lomatopo

[FarangBuddha]

FWIW, TYO is IATA code for the Tokyo metropolitan airports including NRT and HND.

I think DL flies HND-LAX direct, non-stop; maybe JL used to?

Anyway, I have seen some itineraries which call for a transfer between HND and NRT, which could get messy!

I'd be a bit careful on allotting enough time to get into Narita town as the Immigration lines can be quite lengthy ex-NRT around the UA flight bank times.

BTW, the OP may also get an invite card at check-in in BKK to the UA Arrivals Suite at SFO. Some say that Z fare pax do not get these, some say that as a Z fare pax they have received the invite. It is a good place to stop for a quick snack and they have nice shower facilities. After clearing Immigration, baggage and Customs turn left, follow the signs for the Domestic terminals, before you enter the walkway to the domestic terminals look to the right and go down one level.

http://www.united.co...t/maps/sfo.aspx

I have been using your tips and working my way around the United website; and I found this tid-bit regarding access to the arrival lounges:

United Arrivals Lounge

Start your day refreshed with United Arrivals Lounge. A retreat where United Global First and United BusinessFirst customers traveling on a same-day ticket and arriving before noon may enjoy a shower and continental breakfast.

If this indeed correct, it seems to me I should qualify a invite to the arrivals lounge in San Francisco (even on a Z fare) as I arrive in SFO at 9 a.m. on the same day as my departure from BKK.

[lomatopo]

Yeah, it seems a bit hit/miss on FlyerTalk re: Z fares and Arrivals Suite entry. You may get a printed card, same size as your boarding passes, automatically upon check-in at BKK. If not, you could ask.

I do know that when I upgrade (certificate) from Economy to Business I am not eligible for the Arrivals Suite, but if I am on a paid Business class fare (C/D) or even a Business class award (miles) I am eligible. (I can't bring myself to use the new UACO acronyms, like the oxymoronic "BusinessFirst", for Business. )

[FarangBuddha]

All appears to be well, UA803 departed NRT at 1840 on its way to BKK; so my UA804 is a go at 0600 tomorrow morning

Edited May 28, 2012 by FarangBuddha

[FarangBuddha]

Well, all appeared to be well the nite before but it all turned to <deleted> the next morning! The plane had a cockpit console warning light failure that had to be fixed before it could take off; so we were 1 hour and 10 minutes late for departure...the scheduled push-back of 6 a.m. was delayed to after 7!!! To make matters worse, the problem occurred after the cabin doors had been closed so we were all forced to wait out the delay in the plane rather than the Royal Silk lounge.

In addition, the delayed takeoff almost caused me to miss my connecting flight in Narita! The NRT-SFO flight was boarding as my plane was landing necessitating a mad dash on my part through the NRT transfer passenger security screening to the departure gate. Of course this means I also had no time to relax and continue my snacking at the UA lounge at NRT!

But wait, that's not all, believe it or not it gets worse. As Lomotopo mentioned, sometimes they swap out the new config biz class plane for an older one and you guessed it, it happened to me on this flight! So instead of a 180 degree lye flat seat I'm confronted with something that looks like its been around for 25 years...something truly awful and that I thought didn't even exist anymore. The IFE screen was one of those ones that pops up from between the seats and has a screen size of about 4 inches...<deleted>, my smartphone screen is bigger!

At least the plane from Tokyo was the anticipated new seating configuration and the upper deck was comfortable. I will have more about the experience in a trip report post I'm preparing for the travel sub-forum. Needless to say, I'm very unimpressed with the UA business class offering and in future, will stick to my normal practice of using only Asian carriers back to the USA. On this run, I could have taken the ANA flight for about $400 more and I'm sure been a lot more satisfied.

Edited May 30, 2012 by FarangBuddha

[lomatopo]

I think most people understand that there are mechanical/safety issues, and that they should be addressed before departure. Once can hardly blame UA for this? No other carrier is going to deal with this scenario any differently. (OK, maybe some will defer the maintenance, and/or fudge the records?)

Not sure what to say about the subsequent connection at NRT? After a delay departing BKK you must have figured out that your connection time would be reduced? You made the flight? So did any bags? Again not sure how an Asian carrier is going to handle this any better? Believe me when I tell you that you didn't miss any great snacking in the RCC at NRT.

I did mention, several times no less, that there are equipment swaps and that this should not be wholly unexpected.

Quoting my post #3: "On UA it may be a crap-shoot: lie-flat BKK-NRT-SFO, or old-style on one or both segments."

I believe you purchased the ticket knowing this, and decided price was most important? Kvetching about it now seems lame?

Edited June 3, 2012 by lomatopo

[FarangBuddha]

I think most people understand that there are mechanical/safety issues, and that they should be addressed before departure. Once can hardly blame UA for this? No other carrier is going to deal with this scenario any differently. (OK, maybe some will defer the maintenance, and/or fudge the records?)

Not sure what to say about the subsequent connection at NRT? After a delay departing BKK you must have figured out that your connection time would be reduced? You made the flight? So did any bags? Again not sure how an Asian carrier is going to handle this any better? Believe me when I tell you that you didn't miss any great snacking in the RCC at NRT.

I did mention, several times no less, that there are equipment swaps and that this should not be wholly unexpected.

Quoting my post #3: "On UA it may be a crap-shoot: lie-flat BKK-NRT-SFO, or old-style on one or both segments."

I believe you purchased the ticket knowing this, and decided price was most important? Kvetching about it now seems lame?

I wasn't expecting much, this being an American flagged carrier but I guess I was just hoping for better. United certainly met my expectations

What most surprised me was the ancient aircraft and its cabin fittings. I flew in such cabins 15 years ago and at that time, they were already old. Truly, I didn't think anyone still flew such fossil planes, at least not on their premier international routes. I surely haven't flown in such a cabin in over a debate of flights on Asian carriers. The plane probably had the mechanical problem because it was so old.

As for the IFM's, they were it were all basically indelible, save for the rolls and desserts. I will be packing my own provisions for the return flight.

I'm not complaining (okay I am) but just offering up my opinions for the benefit of others who may be considering United for their future travels.

Edited June 3, 2012 by FarangBuddha

[55Jay]

I think most people understand that there are mechanical/safety issues, and that they should be addressed before departure. Once can hardly blame UA for this? No other carrier is going to deal with this scenario any differently. (OK, maybe some will defer the maintenance, and/or fudge the records?)

Not sure what to say about the subsequent connection at NRT? After a delay departing BKK you must have figured out that your connection time would be reduced? You made the flight? So did any bags? Again not sure how an Asian carrier is going to handle this any better? Believe me when I tell you that you didn't miss any great snacking in the RCC at NRT.

I did mention, several times no less, that there are equipment swaps and that this should not be wholly unexpected.

Quoting my post #3: "On UA it may be a crap-shoot: lie-flat BKK-NRT-SFO, or old-style on one or both segments."

I believe you purchased the ticket knowing this, and decided price was most important? Kvetching about it now seems lame?

I wasn't expecting much, this being an American flagged carrier but I guess I was just hoping for better. United certainly met my expectations

What most surprised me was the ancient aircraft and its cabin fittings. I flew in such cabins 15 years ago and at that time, they were already old. Truly, I didn't think anyone still flew such fossil planes, at least not on their premier international routes. I surely haven't flown in such a cabin in over a debate of flights on Asian carriers. The plane probably had the mechanical problem because it was so old.

As for the IFM's, they were it were all basically indelible, save for the rolls and desserts. I will be packing my own provisions for the return flight.

I'm not complaining (okay I am) but just offering up my opinions for the benefit of others who may be considering United for their future travels.

Yep, most appreciated and so far, your experience supports my general apathy toward US carriers these days, some more than others. However I appreciate running an airline ain't easy, <deleted> happens, just some put up a better screen show than others.

Safe travels, look forward to 2nd half trip report when you get back.

J

[yermanee]

I'm not complaining (okay I am) but just offering up my opinions for the benefit of others who may be considering United for their future travels.

And thank you for that. Wish more people would do this.

Yermanee

[lomatopo]

What most surprised me was the ancient aircraft and its cabin fittings. I flew in such cabins 15 years ago and at that time, they were already old. Truly, I didn't think anyone still flew such fossil planes, at least not on their premier international routes. I surely haven't flown in such a cabin in over a debate of flights on Asian carriers. The plane probably had the mechanical problem because it was so old.

NH (ANA) operates BKK-NRT with a 767, NH's avg. 767 fleet age is 14.2 years. UA operates BKK-NRT with a 777 (although they switch to a 747 seasonally), UA's avg. 777 fleet age is 12.9 years.

As mentioned, more than once, UA is in the midst (~70% complete) of their 777 conversion. FWIW, the aircraft the OP flew NRT-SFO is probably closer to 17 years old! But all of UA's 747's have been converted.

I fly NH occasionally, in J, and their regional (BKK-NRT is a regional flight) business class is OK, with seating roughly equivalent to the older style to OP experienced, with IFE much better (same as update UA). I find airline meals universally mediocre. On UA they do have the Japanese style meal USA<--> NRT, which PAX can pre-reserve.

There are thousands of detailed trip reports on FlyerTalk.

[FarangBuddha]

To follow-up on my United Airlines business class flight from Bangkok to San Francisco, here are some photos and my final impressions, primarily on the Tokyo to San Francisco flight, as the Bangkok to Tokyo leg has already been covered above.

The only difference between the legs was that on the NRT-SFO portion, there was an airplane switch from the fossilized 777, flown from Bangkok to Tokyo, to a 747. The poor food and mostly dis-interested crew service remained the same. (However, to be fair, there was one steward in the cabin, with over 40 years of service, who was very courteous and professional.) I will note that never once, during either flights, was I ever addressed by name by any of the crew. A small point to be sure, but one that says allot about the level of service an airline is striving to provide its premium class passengers.

As mentiond before, the seat on the BKK-NRT leg was pathetic, something I haven't seen in over a decade, with little cushioning or support. Here it is in all its ugly glory:

United promotes its upgraded seats and in-flight service in its "BusinessFirst" business class cabin (an confusing name if there ever was one). The new seat is a 180 degree lye-flat model and has a multitude of adjustment options. It is definitely an improvement on the older seats. However, the main problem is that the biz class seat is barely wider than the economy/coach class seat (2.5" wider). This is not so bad when one is awake and upright but sort of defeats the purpose of the lye-flat sleeping feature, because as if one is anywhere near an average sized adult, it impossible to get comfortable when lying down in such a narrow space. Basically, I had to sleep on my side and it was very uncomfortable. The one good thing I can say about the seat layout is that like any biz class, there is plenty of pitch between seat rows...it is very spacious and comfortable in this respect. Here is the seat "pod" in the upgraded business class...take particular note of how narrow it is; if one didn't know better, one could be mistaken in thinking it is an economy or economy-deluxe seat:

One final note on the seats/cabin, as noted above, my smartphone has a bigger and much nicer screen than the ancient one found on the United IFE device on the old configuration plane used from BKK to NRT:

Moving on to the in-flight meal service, I agree with Lomotopo that no one expects the food served on an a tin can flying at 35k feet through the air for hours on end to be gourmet, but some airlines do provide food that is at least tasty and filling. I have even had a few quite good meals on some airlines, Unfortunately, United continues to be not one of them. On both of my flights, the food was very poor...the bread service and the desserts were being the high-lights. The coffee was swill, despite the fact that my adjacent seat-mate (a UA one-million mile flyer member...oh how I pity him) saying that United served Starbucks coffee (maybe that explains it). The champagne served is plastic flutes before take-off was an especially classy tough.

Here is my breakfast menu and as served on the BKK-NRT flight:

This was the continental breakfast...a small bag of cereal and some fruit. Also note the coffee served in a mug, another classy tough. I skipped the ciabatta sandwich offered prior to arrival and the chocolate never finished as it was never served!

Things got no tastier on the NRT-SFO flght, where both me and my seat-mate received our second meal selections (with no apology from the stewardess...only a curt well that's all they had left). [i have never experienced this on an Asian carrier, in fact, I was totally surprised when, when taking our meal order, the stewardess even asked us for our first and second meal choices.) For the entree portion, the salad was okay and I ate the two pieces of marinated cooked port from the starters plate. The rolls were somewhat dry and luke-warm but edible.

However, the main course was some acidic tasting "beef" thing, served with tasteless mashed potatoes. I took a couple bites and called it a nite. The stewardess actually seemed surprised when she picked up my tray, commenting that I had hardly touched it. (I would have thought it would be an every-flight occurrence with this level of food.)

Finally, something I could eat, the dessert. A sort of cherry tart-let, served with more of the dreaded coffee in a mug.

My final impressions: Well, like I said above, I won't be taking any American carriers again anytime soon, that's for sure. The cabins, even with the new seats, is not very competitive with most other offerings I have flown before. The food service and presentation is poor, not much different than economy in my humble opinion and the the little service extras like personal name service is lacking. Also, on other airlines I have flown, the biz class service seems to be more immersive if that's the right word. The crew are always checking to see if you are comfortable and come around often throughout the flight to offer little extras like ice-cream, chocolates, after meal liquors, and espressos. Nothing like this was offered by United and the chocolate that was listed on one menu was never served.

Edited June 4, 2012 by FarangBuddha

[ocean268]

This is great info. Thanks! Highly suggest flying the Korean Air or Singapore Airlines Airbus A380 from BKK to LAX. Their economy appears to be much nicer than your business class flight. The A380 is very fancy. The flights are from LAX and cost around $1,300. Good Luck!

[FarangBuddha]

This is great info. Thanks! Highly suggest flying the Korean Air or Singapore Airlines Airbus A380 from BKK to LAX. Their economy appears to be much nicer than your business class flight. The A380 is very fancy. The flights are from LAX and cost around $1,300. Good Luck!

I did price the Singapore service to SFO...the main problem for me was the length of the flight and the two, as opposed to one, layover/stop (BKK-SIN-NRT/HKG-SFO) plus the fact that one has to backtrack to SIN then back up north to HKG or NRT, and then on to the west coast. However, after my UA experience, I'm open for anything else next trip (maybe Korean or Asiana or my old standby EVA).

[55Jay]

This is great info. Thanks! Highly suggest flying the Korean Air or Singapore Airlines Airbus A380 from BKK to LAX. Their economy appears to be much nicer than your business class flight. The A380 is very fancy. The flights are from LAX and cost around $1,300. Good Luck!

I did price the Singapore service to SFO...the main problem for me was the length of the flight and the two, as opposed to one, layover/stop (BKK-SIN-NRT/HKG-SFO) plus the fact that one has to backtrack to SIN then back up north to HKG or NRT, and then on to the west coast. However, after my UA experience, I'm open for anything else next trip (maybe Korean or Asiana or my old standby EVA).

FB - Thanks for the info, and the photos really brought it home. I appreciate the effort you took/are taking as this route to the west coast is of interest to many, and has reinforced what I had thought when considering the UA offerings, which initially sent me off reading up on ANA being many bookings were clearly stated as UA operated by ANA on the first BKK sector. Info from Lomatopo was really interesting and valuable too, obviously well travelled, good stuff.

Safe travels and regards to Cali.

Jay