Versys Radial Caliper Brackets

[Hog Head]

The Versys is a good bike and to make it a great bike, one needs to address the ways that the baht pinching accountants chose to save money at the expense of performance. One of these areas is the use of sliding style front brake calipers rather than a modern 4 piston design. The stock system is adequate, and with EBC HH pads and SS lines, is a lot better. The issue is, can it be made better if not constrained by cost issues.

There is no question that the stock sliding caliper design is inferior to a modern 4 piston caliper, and there is a very good reason why high end bikes employ 4 piston radial calipers. Note that no high end or performance bikes employ the Versys style of sliding caliper.

There is also no question that feedback through the lever and better overall progressive control can be improved with better calipers and MC.

In racing classes where brake upgrades are allowed, you will see it being done along the lines I propose, abiet with "better" calipers and a Brembo adjustable ratio MC.

My buddy Tim here in Chiangmai, has made a bracket to fit Nissin conventional 4 piston calipers to his ER if anyone wants to go that route, but I am going one step further and fitting 4 piston radial calipers. The problem is that you need a custom bracket to fit these calipers.

I am aware of a supplier in Taiwan selling Versys brackets for radial calipers but not the ABS model.

Anyone know of an off the shelf bracket to retrofit radial calipers before I go and reinvent the wheel?

I have wasted 2 months with local specialty parts suppliers who work with some BKK CNC machine shop, in an attempt to get a suitable bracket to mount radial calipers to my Versys. They claimed to have a design that works but the 2 sets supplied are wrong in several ways and rather than struggle any further to help them get it right, I have decided to design one myself.

My design is to fit Tokico radial calipers with a standard 108mm bolt pattern - this is used by several caliper manufacturers. These came on a lot of Kawi models including the 636 ZX6R's and the ZX-10's. Loads are available on Ebay and even locally as the ZX-10 is made here. I paid 40 USD for a pair on Fleabay plus a rebuild kit and powdercoating by Richco in Chiangmai

The stock bore Versys MC is too small with the 4 pistons, so it is best to pair these calipers with a Nissin radial MC from the same bikes - or Brembo if you are feeling flush. A new Nissin MC is available from Kawi Thailand as used on the the new ZX-10. 6700 b and looks like the Versys model but radial and larger bore.

I used a 09 version ZX-10 radial MC as I found a new one on Fleabay for 115.00

CNC shops have an economy of scale so rather than make just a pair for myself, it will be only incrementally more expensive to make several sets. I know a really good CNC shop that can do the work given the right design. I anticipate a cost for the bracket at around 3500 -4000 B if I have several sets made

This is not a commercial venture, and only a hobby for me so I will not be making another run.

Anyone interested?

To those that are happy with the stock system, buy some HH pads with SS lines and be happy

I for one, am not satisfied with mediocrity, and have experienced far better brakes than the Versys. if someone wants better brakes and brakes with more feel then let me know.

BTW, the caliper has nothing to do with the ABS system and is only a "squeezer". Your ABS system will work just as before the mod

[karlos]

Give these guys a call for the bracket, they can also supply a pair of brembos too http://www.apshop-racing.com/

[Hog Head]

I too saw that in real lifle and that is why I tried to buy them locally rather than reinvent the wheel. Unfortunatly what I was shipped not once, but twice, is substandard starting from the cheap alloy right to the machining tolerances and stress concentration issues

To be fair I do not know if it came from the same machine shop that AP uses, but then again how many are doing this esoteric part

I and an Engineer, owned a full on CNC machine shop, and have been a rider for 41 years. I demand something safe, engineered properly, and can do far better than what was sold to me.

Thanks for the link, but not for me

Edited May 31, 2012 by Hog Head

[commande]

I could be wrong here but I thought that Brembo already produces a Brembo Radial Caliper upgrade kit for the Versys, I think they also have an MC for it to. Might only be for the front though, not sure about the back. About a month ago I was at a shop in Bangkok and was told that they could get me a kit if I wanted one, of course as usual here in LOS, what people say and what is really true are generally two different things 90% of the time.

Edited June 1, 2012 by commande

[Hog Head]

The link above sent by Karlos is to the Brembo upgrade you are referring to. I do however think that this is locally made.

Yes you will need a new larger MC as the stock Versys one will be too small

In thinking more about this, simply fabricating a bracket coming off the mounting holes for a conventional caliper, is not the best way to do this.

Here is that same link for an idea of what this sort of bracket will look line on a conventional ER fork, not the inverted Versys design, but gives you an idea of how the bracket looks

http://www.apshop-racing.com/

The design advantage to a radial caliper design is that the mounting position minimizes caliper twisting under extreme load. By using a bracket and bolting conventionally to the fork leg that design advantage is lost and the radial caliper is still subject to the same design flaws as a conventional caliper

In short all you have is a really cool looking brake, but not the radial advantage. Yes it will have better feel and be more powerful. but you can have that by bolting on a conventional Nissin caliper using Tim's bracket and save a ton of money

Today was spent with Solid Works modeling the fork leg. It soon became apparent that it is not a lot more work to machine an entire new lower fork leg with an integral radial mount, than simply building an adapter bracket. All the advantages of a radial design, uber cool, a lot safer, and not much more money.

This is what I am now doing

[BigBikeBKK]

I too saw that in real lifle and that is why I tried to buy them locally rather than reinvent the wheel. Unfortunatly what I was shipped not once, but twice, is substandard starting from the cheap alloy right to the machining tolerances and stress concentration issues

To be fair I do not know if it came from the same machine shop that AP uses, but then again how many are doing this esoteric part

I and an Engineer, owned a full on CNC machine shop, and have been a rider for 41 years. I demand something safe, engineered properly, and can do far better than what was sold to me.

Thanks for the link, but not for me

The top EX650 racers in Thailand use the brackets from AP Performance to mount their calipers. I think if they're good enough for the track, they should be good enough for you.

[Hog Head]

Tony

Read and think about the advantages of radial calipers over conventional calipers. Then think about mounting a radial caliper to a conventional fork using a bracket. It will become clear

I would think that a top EX650 racer, or at least his race engineer, would understand the difference

I do not see the point in buying the AP part when the design deficiencies are known and understood.

Mediocrity is not good enough for me, I have the engineering knowledge to do it properly and will do so.

[YipYipYa123]

I too saw that in real lifle and that is why I tried to buy them locally rather than reinvent the wheel. Unfortunatly what I was shipped not once, but twice, is substandard starting from the cheap alloy right to the machining tolerances and stress concentration issues

To be fair I do not know if it came from the same machine shop that AP uses, but then again how many are doing this esoteric part

I and an Engineer, owned a full on CNC machine shop, and have been a rider for 41 years. I demand something safe, engineered properly, and can do far better than what was sold to me.

Thanks for the link, but not for me

i have a versys ,bout 9-10 months old

i think the brakes could deffo use upgrading

roughly how much % do you think this wiill make them better ?

Also ,does it affect/void the warranty if we use re-designed brakes ?

[Hog Head]

Some are satisfied with EBC HH pads and SS lines and is a large improvement over stock. You may want to think about that

The more discerning rider will prefer this mod as it will give you far better feel, be more progressive, and more powerful than the stock brakes.

How do you quantify that in percentage terms?

If you are concerned about the warranty you can always fit the stock system in the unlikely chance that you will need brake warranty work.

This is the least of my worries