Coups Don't Solve Problems: Thailand

[kerryk]

The point is that Wikipedia ('The Free Encyclopedia) being open sourced can be edited by anyone with a computer. If they are wrong then you have recourse to change it - easy !!

Thank you for saying that. I know better then to attempt to explain something to a person who holds a 1% minority position from the rest of the world. Of course I am not saying he is wrong. If he is right change Wiki no big problem.

Do you guys believe everything just because it's in wikipedia? That explains a lot.

Of course not. Can't you read? The statement was, "Of course I am not saying he is wrong. If he is right change Wiki no big problem."

[phiphidon]

How was Thaksin appointed at that time?

The King had accepted his resignation

You show me where that happened. Thaksin said he would step down after the election (scheduled for October but not held for obvious reasons) as he would not accept a role as leader of the party.or PM candidate. We've had this discussion before and I'm not going to provide all the evidence again - search through recent threads.

[kerryk]

I am afraid that with all the nepotism and corruption 'coups' do actually solve part of the problem.

A true peoples revolution, based on a dogma of faith rather than greed would indeed be able to eradicate the moral diseases of society!

And be assured, this will happen one day as history seems to repeat itself.

Who makes the distinction between a peoples revolution and a totalitarian dictatorship. I believe Stalin and Mao both said they were leading peoples revolutions and they were the biggest mass murderers in the history of the world. No?

[phiphidon]

How do you get an "elected caretaker government"?

Wiki is your friend.

It doesn't seem to be your friend. All it talks about is how a "caretaker government" is appointed or set up, or is a provisional government when the government is dissolved (ie when an election is called) or collapses.

There is nothing about a "caretaker government" being "elected".

If you are talking about the wiki's reference to Thailand's "elected caretaker government" prior to the coup, that is simply incorrect. The Thaksin caretaker government came about when Thaksin dissolved parliament prior to the 2006 election.

Thaksin was caretaker PM when the coup happened. Quibble all you like about elected he was still in an official position when the military junta took over power and ripped up the constitution. Let's use a familiar line, if only the democrats and the junta had waited, they would have had a chance of unseating thaksin in the upcoming royally decreed election. Except the Junta knew the democrats would lose and stepped in anyway.

[whybother]

Thaksin was caretaker PM when the coup happened. Quibble all you like about elected he was still in an official position when the military junta took over power and ripped up the constitution. Let's use a familiar line, if only the democrats and the junta had waited, they would have had a chance of unseating thaksin in the upcoming royally decreed election. Except the Junta knew the democrats would lose and stepped in anyway.

Maybe you need to re-read what I asked.

How do you get an "elected caretaker government"?

[volk666]

If Thaksin still wields a lot of influence over Thai politics from exile how are we supposed to believe that he would have gone and banished from politics without a coup?

How can they say "coups don't solve problems"? The coup removed Thaksin from power, now the man is convicted, illegal part of his assets have been confiscated and he is on the run. Of course it's not a complete and satisfactory solution but still better than trying to deal with him via "democratic" means.

[kerryk]

If Thaksin still wields a lot of influence over Thai politics from exile how are we supposed to believe that he would have gone and banished from politics without a coup?

How can they say "coups don't solve problems"? The coup removed Thaksin from power, now the man is convicted, illegal part of his assets have been confiscated and he is on the run. Of course it's not a complete and satisfactory solution but still better than trying to deal with him via "democratic" means.

The end never justifies the means.

[volk666]

The coup was bloodless. Can't say the same about "democratic" calls for an early elections that ended in so much tragedy. They eventually got their preferred government, half a year later than was proposed and half a year earlier than scheduled. Does THIS end justify the means?

How's that "end never justifies the means" applies only to the actions of the opponents? I also never heard anything like that form the red leaders, they never said "this is getting ugly, this will never justify our victory, let's wrap it up and go home".

[tlansford]

Try searching for Thaksin's resignation

The 2006 Thai coup d'état took place on Tuesday 19 September 2006, when the Royal Thai Army staged a coup d'état against the elected caretaker government of Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra. Above via Wiki is what the world thinks. Wiki is open to change. Why don't you tell them they are wrong? Of course every major newspaper in the world is also wrong. Maybe you should tell them too.Who is it now that thinks there was no coup? You and Gand? Who else? Step up and be counted boys.</p>

x = # claiming there was no coup

y = # of TVF news forum posters

x = y * .9

[kerryk]

The coup was bloodless. Can't say the same about "democratic" calls for an early elections that ended in so much tragedy. They eventually got their preferred government, half a year later than was proposed and half a year earlier than scheduled. Does THIS end justify the means?

How's that "end never justifies the means" applies only to the actions of the opponents? I also never heard anything like that form the red leaders, they never said "this is getting ugly, this will never justify our victory, let's wrap it up and go home".

I realize it is not going to help much but you could have heard it from me.

[phiphidon]

Try searching for Thaksin's resignation

The 2006 Thai coup d'état took place on Tuesday 19 September 2006, when the Royal Thai Army staged a coup d'état against the elected caretaker government of Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra. Above via Wiki is what the world thinks. Wiki is open to change. Why don't you tell them they are wrong? Of course every major newspaper in the world is also wrong. Maybe you should tell them too.Who is it now that thinks there was no coup? You and Gand? Who else? Step up and be counted boys.</p>

x = # claiming there was no coup

y = # of TVF news forum posters

x = y * .9

And don't whatever you do, mention the judicial coup..............

[ThaiOats]

How do you get an "elected caretaker government"?

Wiki is your friend.

It doesn't seem to be your friend. All it talks about is how a "caretaker government" is appointed or set up, or is a provisional government when the government is dissolved (ie when an election is called) or collapses.

There is nothing about a "caretaker government" being "elected".

If you are talking about the wiki's reference to Thailand's "elected caretaker government" prior to the coup, that is simply incorrect. The Thaksin caretaker government came about when Thaksin dissolved parliament prior to the 2006 election.

Thaksin was caretaker PM when the coup happened. Quibble all you like about elected he was still in an official position when the military junta took over power and ripped up the constitution. Let's use a familiar line, if only the democrats and the junta had waited, they would have had a chance of unseating thaksin in the upcoming royally decreed election. Except the Junta knew the democrats would lose and stepped in anyway.

So the Democrats succeeded Thaksin or Surayud? I thought Samak became PM after the military interim government. Did the military start another coup then? Or how about when he was succeeded by Somchai Wongsawut, I didn't know he was a Democrat?

[whybother]

x = # claiming there was no coup

y = # of TVF news forum posters

x = y * .9

[volk666]

Sorry, I'm confused with all these entrenched positions and with some posters I'm not sure where they are coming from.

[lannarebirth]

I am afraid that with all the nepotism and corruption 'coups' do actually solve part of the problem.

A true peoples revolution, based on a dogma of faith rather than greed would indeed be able to eradicate the moral diseases of society!

And be assured, this will happen one day as history seems to repeat itself.

What's the difference between a righteous coup and a righteous revolution?

[lannarebirth]

Try searching for Thaksin's resignation

The 2006 Thai coup d'état took place on Tuesday 19 September 2006, when the Royal Thai Army staged a coup d'état against the elected caretaker government of Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra. Above via Wiki is what the world thinks. Wiki is open to change. Why don't you tell them they are wrong? Of course every major newspaper in the world is also wrong. Maybe you should tell them too.Who is it now that thinks there was no coup? You and Gand? Who else? Step up and be counted boys.</p>

x = # claiming there was no coup

y = # of TVF news forum posters

x = y * .9

And don't whatever you do, mention the judicial coup..............

If this were a judicially active society Yingluck would be out on her ass already. This is a society that shows uncommon judicial restraint until things just go too far. People here don't even seem to be aware of the laws that govern them. They think democracy is a weapon you can weild against your opponents. Well, that's not true and occasionally the courts point that fact out.

Edited June 22, 2012 by lannarebirth

[tlansford]

- deleted -

The 2006 Thai coup d'état took place on Tuesday 19 September 2006, when the Royal Thai Army staged a coup d'état against the elected caretaker government of Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra. Above via Wiki is what the world thinks. Wiki is open to change. Why don't you tell them they are wrong? Of course every major newspaper in the world is also wrong. Maybe you should tell them too.Who is it now that thinks there was no coup? You and Gand? Who else? Step up and be counted boys.</p>

x = # claiming there was no coup

y = # of TVF news forum posters

x = y * .9

And don't whatever you do, mention the judicial coup..............

If this were a judicially active society Yingluck would be out on her ass already. This is a society that shows uncommon judicial restraint until things just go too far. People here don't even seem to be aware of the laws that govern them. They think democracy is a weapon you can weild against your opponents. Well, that's not true and occasionally the courts point that fact out.

IMO the courts have become a weapon which allow some to wield the courts against their opponents.

I hold this opinion after noting that the current structure and make-up of the courts were established by the same people responsible for the coup and then watching the activism of these same courts in dissolving 2 political parties while ignoring the others.

[Reasonableman]

Such as suing for defamation and libel to silence critics?

[tlansford]

Such as suing for defamation and libel to silence critics?

it seems too obvious to state that judicial activism is when courts take particular initiatives and / or activist decisions vs when people go to the courts with cases against others.

[Reasonableman]

Such as suing for defamation and libel to silence critics?

it seems too obvious to state that judicial activism is when courts take particular initiatives and / or activist decisions vs when people go to the courts with cases against others.

I must have misunderstood what you meant by:

IMO the courts have become a weapon which allow some to wield the courts against their opponents.

Was my point not apropos, then?

[lannarebirth]

x = # claiming there was no coup

y = # of TVF news forum posters

x = y * .9

And don't whatever you do, mention the judicial coup..............

If this were a judicially active society Yingluck would be out on her ass already. This is a society that shows uncommon judicial restraint until things just go too far. People here don't even seem to be aware of the laws that govern them. They think democracy is a weapon you can weild against your opponents. Well, that's not true and occasionally the courts point that fact out.

IMO the courts have become a weapon which allow some to wield the courts against their opponents.

I hold this opinion after noting that the current structure and make-up of the courts were established by the same people responsible for the coup and then watching the activism of these same courts in dissolving 2 political parties while ignoring the others.

I'm really interested to know how you can hold this opinion when the current courts continually find current office holders and others whom they held sway over not guilty of crimes allof Thailand saw them perpetrate. As for ignoring the others, it's really easy to bring a charge here, but that doesn't make it true. It's a cartoon constitution as was the 1997 one.

[letitbe]

Well I and my Thai wife would welcome a coup now 100%

It gets sillier day by day why not just suspend all laws and hand the country to Taksin. Were even more determined now to sell rest of our assets here except the house and maybe the rice paddies. Weve mad a lot here with our investments over last 18 or so years and lived through several coups and 1997 crash with no real worries but for first time we are now seriously concerned and think risk of either a civil war or taksin dictatorship likely. We only hope army will step in soon and stop this madness again but this time totally destroy the reds and if they can Taksin and all his henchmen. Then and only then will we start bringing money back in from Singapore and Hong Kong.

We disposed of another 10 % of our assets here in the last month at least 20% below normal market value just to get more out quickly. In last 18 months weve now liquidated around 70% of our assets here and plan to liquidate rest over next year or so. We wont leave unless it gets really bad and here theirs a start to pol pot reeducation type camps but that has already started with red villages and districts. We live in a total red shirt area and no one would dare say anything but as yet in our area their are not red flags on every house. We visited a friend of my wifes not far from where we live and in that area every house had a red flag and we even had to go through a road block of reds. My wifes friend is scared silly since she hates the reds but feels she cant leave since the families only assets are farm and house in that area. She said shed sell if she could but no one wants to pay any proper price and she knows several also desperate to get out.

Very sad and if it continues and we suddenly find ourselves in a total red shirt zone well have to escape initially to a very small rough house we have near Cha am and just hope it gets better.

Why is this allowed to continue but then I suppose Hitler did it step by step until the people's eyes opened and then to late he had complete control.

[lannarebirth]

Such as suing for defamation and libel to silence critics?

it seems too obvious to state that judicial activism is when courts take particular initiatives and / or activist decisions vs when people go to the courts with cases against others.

Yes, that's the definition of judicial activism, but it's seldom on display here in Thailand except when it's to illegally forgive actions that would otherwise be illegal.

Thailand is a nation of tolerance for better or worse. That extends to it's courts. Most courts here display great judicial restraint, tending to overlook specific actions save for the most grievous, but try to keep in check the general theme of those cumulative actions. It's a criminal society where courts tend to pick their battles. The exception may be Thaksin's 2001 assets declaration trial.

Look back to 2001 and Thaksin's assets trial. He was stone guilty and there is no honest man who believes otherwise. Long before the coup of 2006 the court commited malfeasance exonerating a man they knew to be guilty. It is the central point that has led to everything that has followed. You may call it judicial activism but I call it judicial restraint malfeasance.

[mca]

I could empathise with the coup leaders reasons for holding a coup if in the aftermath of said coup they didn't award themselves massive pay rises and positions on the boards of state enterprises.

Edited June 22, 2012 by mca

[phiphidon]

So the Democrats succeeded Thaksin or Surayud? I thought Samak became PM after the military interim government. Did the military start another coup then? Or how about when he was succeeded by Somchai Wongsawut, I didn't know he was a Democrat?

You really ought to concentrate on comprehension / history. If the coup had not happened there would have been elections in Ocober or within a month or so while the new Election Commission got up to speed. Then the dems would have a chance to get themselves voted in legitimately with a mandate by getting more of the peoples votes than the opposition, you know, the way democratic elections are normally run.

Instead the coup happened, the junta kept in power for a year and then another election was held in December 2007. In January 2008 PPP formed a coalition government as they won again. The rest you know, or maybe not.................

[phiphidon]

Well I and my Thai wife would welcome a coup now 100%

It gets sillier day by day why not just suspend all laws and hand the country to Taksin. Were even more determined now to sell rest of our assets here except the house and maybe the rice paddies. Weve mad a lot here with our investments over last 18 or so years and lived through several coups and 1997 crash with no real worries but for first time we are now seriously concerned and think risk of either a civil war or taksin dictatorship likely. We only hope army will step in soon and stop this madness again but this time totally destroy the reds and if they can Taksin and all his henchmen. Then and only then will we start bringing money back in from Singapore and Hong Kong.

We disposed of another 10 % of our assets here in the last month at least 20% below normal market value just to get more out quickly. In last 18 months weve now liquidated around 70% of our assets here and plan to liquidate rest over next year or so. We wont leave unless it gets really bad and here theirs a start to pol pot reeducation type camps but that has already started with red villages and districts. We live in a total red shirt area and no one would dare say anything but as yet in our area their are not red flags on every house. We visited a friend of my wifes not far from where we live and in that area every house had a red flag and we even had to go through a road block of reds. My wifes friend is scared silly since she hates the reds but feels she cant leave since the families only assets are farm and house in that area. She said shed sell if she could but no one wants to pay any proper price and she knows several also desperate to get out.

Very sad and if it continues and we suddenly find ourselves in a total red shirt zone well have to escape initially to a very small rough house we have near Cha am and just hope it gets better.

Why is this allowed to continue but then I suppose Hitler did it step by step until the people's eyes opened and then to late he had complete control.

It's a pain when you get bad neighbours isn't it, but I don't think a coup is the answer to yours or anyone elses prayers. I shall look forward to the next thrilling instalment on how you're liquidating your assets, I mean you've only been telling everybody about them since May last year.

[letitbe]

Well I and my Thai wife would welcome a coup now 100%

It gets sillier day by day why not just suspend all laws and hand the country to Taksin. Were even more determined now to sell rest of our assets here except the house and maybe the rice paddies. Weve mad a lot here with our investments over last 18 or so years and lived through several coups and 1997 crash with no real worries but for first time we are now seriously concerned and think risk of either a civil war or taksin dictatorship likely. We only hope army will step in soon and stop this madness again but this time totally destroy the reds and if they can Taksin and all his henchmen. Then and only then will we start bringing money back in from Singapore and Hong Kong.

We disposed of another 10 % of our assets here in the last month at least 20% below normal market value just to get more out quickly. In last 18 months weve now liquidated around 70% of our assets here and plan to liquidate rest over next year or so. We wont leave unless it gets really bad and here theirs a start to pol pot reeducation type camps but that has already started with red villages and districts. We live in a total red shirt area and no one would dare say anything but as yet in our area their are not red flags on every house. We visited a friend of my wifes not far from where we live and in that area every house had a red flag and we even had to go through a road block of reds. My wifes friend is scared silly since she hates the reds but feels she cant leave since the families only assets are farm and house in that area. She said shed sell if she could but no one wants to pay any proper price and she knows several also desperate to get out.

Very sad and if it continues and we suddenly find ourselves in a total red shirt zone well have to escape initially to a very small rough house we have near Cha am and just hope it gets better.

Why is this allowed to continue but then I suppose Hitler did it step by step until the people's eyes opened and then to late he had complete control.

It's a pain when you get bad neighbours isn't it, but I don't think a coup is the answer to yours or anyone elses prayers. I shall look forward to the next thrilling instalment on how you're liquidating your assets, I mean you've only been telling everybody about them since May last year.

Well I and my Thai wife would welcome a coup now 100%

It gets sillier day by day why not just suspend all laws and hand the country to Taksin. Were even more determined now to sell rest of our assets here except the house and maybe the rice paddies. Weve mad a lot here with our investments over last 18 or so years and lived through several coups and 1997 crash with no real worries but for first time we are now seriously concerned and think risk of either a civil war or taksin dictatorship likely. We only hope army will step in soon and stop this madness again but this time totally destroy the reds and if they can Taksin and all his henchmen. Then and only then will we start bringing money back in from Singapore and Hong Kong.

We disposed of another 10 % of our assets here in the last month at least 20% below normal market value just to get more out quickly. In last 18 months weve now liquidated around 70% of our assets here and plan to liquidate rest over next year or so. We wont leave unless it gets really bad and here theirs a start to pol pot reeducation type camps but that has already started with red villages and districts. We live in a total red shirt area and no one would dare say anything but as yet in our area their are not red flags on every house. We visited a friend of my wifes not far from where we live and in that area every house had a red flag and we even had to go through a road block of reds. My wifes friend is scared silly since she hates the reds but feels she cant leave since the families only assets are farm and house in that area. She said shed sell if she could but no one wants to pay any proper price and she knows several also desperate to get out.

Very sad and if it continues and we suddenly find ourselves in a total red shirt zone well have to escape initially to a very small rough house we have near Cha am and just hope it gets better.

Why is this allowed to continue but then I suppose Hitler did it step by step until the people's eyes opened and then to late he had complete control.

It's a pain when you get bad neighbours isn't it, but I don't think a coup is the answer to yours or anyone elses prayers. I shall look forward to the next thrilling instalment on how you're liquidating your assets, I mean you've only been telling everybody about them since May last year.

actually warning people but if you and others want to bury your head in sands please continue and its purely to demonstrate my actions follow my words unlike most people

[volk666]

...If the coup had not happened there would have been elections in Ocober or within a month or so while the new Election Commission got up to speed. Then the dems would have a chance to get themselves voted in legitimately with a mandate by getting ....

The coup wasn't about giving Democrats a chance to run in elections. It was about removing Thaksin.

Don't forget that by September 2006 Thaksin had already committed most of his crimes and could stay in power only because he was out of reach of the justice system. April 2006 fraud was all out there for everyone to see, for example, and it was clear that Thaksin had no respect for democratic rules whatsoever and shouldn't be allowed to rule.

Had he formally announced that he would not take the PM post, as he promised earlier that year on national TV, the coup makers would have let the situation to develop on its own, I think.

The ridiculous suicide bomb plot and Thaksin's hesitation to step aside convinced them that the man couldn't be trusted and his fate was sealed.

I'll repeat it again - it wasn't about putting Democrats in power, it was about removing Thaksin, and once that was accomplished the military accepted election results that didn't go their way, twice now.

[tlansford]

...If the coup had not happened there would have been elections in Ocober or within a month or so while the new Election Commission got up to speed. Then the dems would have a chance to get themselves voted in legitimately with a mandate by getting ....

The coup wasn't about giving Democrats a chance to run in elections. It was about removing Thaksin.

Don't forget that by September 2006 Thaksin had already committed most of his crimes and could stay in power only because he was out of reach of the justice system. April 2006 fraud was all out there for everyone to see, for example, and it was clear that Thaksin had no respect for democratic rules whatsoever and shouldn't be allowed to rule.

Had he formally announced that he would not take the PM post, as he promised earlier that year on national TV, the coup makers would have let the situation to develop on its own, I think.

The ridiculous suicide bomb plot and Thaksin's hesitation to step aside convinced them that the man couldn't be trusted and his fate was sealed.

I'll repeat it again - it wasn't about putting Democrats in power, it was about removing Thaksin, and once that was accomplished the military accepted election results that didn't go their way, twice now.

"and once that was accomplished the military accepted election results that didn't go their way, twice now."

well, sort of. They have accepted the results the second time, ... so far.

[kerryk]

"We have successfully overthrown three prime ministers, which proves our track record is excellent," says Chamlong, co-leader of the People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD), whose yellow-clad members shut down Bangkok's international airport in 2008.

"We have the ability to overthrow another government again if need be."