How To Get My Safety Deposit Back?

[MaciejKlimowicz]

Hello,

Here is my situation: About a year ago I rented a studio in a condominium building in Bangkok. Directly form the owner though the building representative was present while we were signing the contract. It was a one-year contract, two months of safety deposit (18k Baht)

Now the contract has come to an end and I want to move out but I have a feeling that the owner will be reluctant to give me my safety deposit back. Suddenly she become interested in al the complaints I had about the flat in the past -swelling floor, smelly bathroom etc. - when I informed her about these issues a couple months ago she took no action, now when my term in the flat is ending she informed me that I have to repair all the damage or it will be deducted form my deposit. Even though I have nothing to do with these problem as they are caused by construction faults.

The contract states that my money will be deducted for any damage to the flat except for normal wear and tear. I guess a worn our sofa and faded chairs is what they mean by that.

One more thing - the actual contract finished 3 months ago but I kept staying and paying for the flat and there was no complain or contact from the owner so I assumed she's fine with that. I also informed her that I'm moving out one month in advance, as stated in the contract.

Do you have any suggestions on how to proceed?

Best regards,

Mac

Edited June 18, 2012 by MaciejKlimowicz

[Darrel]

Unfortunately it is quite common for landlords here to assume that the security deposit is just part of the rental payment, regardless of what damage may or may not have been caused. They also often show very little interest in fixing any sort of problem if the cost is likely to come out of their pocket.

As such it is also quite common for tenants to forget to pay some rent at the end of the tenancy, and other tenants have been known to deliberately trash the place before leaving.

Is anyone surprised?

[lomatopo]

Did you document the issues?

How did you communicate your desire to extend your lease by three months?

Have you spoken with the building representative? If so, what is their take on your situation?

What do you think would be a fair and equitable solution?

Can you document that, then present it in person, and ask for a response, in writing?

[MaciejKlimowicz]

I communicate with the owner through the building stuff as she doesn't speak English and I don't speak Thai. So yes, they are aware of the situation but so far the have only been passing on messages. I wrote a letter to the owner today, explaining that I’m not responsible for the damage to the floor (which by the meantime disappeared – first the floor swelled, than it went back to normal), we’ll see what happens. My question is what to do if the owner decides not to pay me my safety despite all reason.

Trashing the place might give one a certain amount of pleasure but isn’t a solution I must say. As for the rent – I pay for each month in advance.

Best,

[ballbreaker]

You will need someone Thai to help but you can take problem up with Office of the Consumer Protection Board if she does not refund deposit. (http://www.ocpb.go.th/).

I guess you can also mention you hope she has paid taxes on income derived from renting condo. I'm sure the tax people would like to know if she hasn't.

Make sure you have pictures of property on day of departure for you records.

Just walk away and write deposit off and move on with your life.

[ballbreaker]

double post deleted

Edited June 18, 2012 by ballbreaker

[shepsel]

Unfortunately you are at the landlord's mercy for getting back your entire deposit.

I remember that when I first came to Thailand, I had issues with leaky pipes in the kitchen and drain every time I used the sink. Upon checking the pipes I found that they were being held together with black electrical tape. I contacted the owner through the management office, and the owner ignored it. I finally paid a plumber to do the repairs.

When I moved out, I left the apartment in better condition that when i received it, and I waited forever to get my deposit back--and the owner had the audicity to deduct money for leaky pipes in the bathroom--there was nothing I could do accept move on with my life. It is part of the learning experience of living in Thailand.

[PattayaPhom]

Landlords worldwide think deposits are a given right to keep...UK its common to be charged 10 quid just because a waste paper bin is in the wrong room....best next time to use an agent or letting company and you wont have this problem providing you dont break any clauses in your contract.

[Darrel]

By the time the agent's commission has been added onto the rental cost I expect that it more than covers the cost of a possible lost deposit, so the tenant probably pays either way.

And of course one shouldn't believe that all agents are automatically honest. I seem to remember reports of agents pocketing rental payments, commission and deposits and not passing any of it on to the property owner.

In the UK deposits are ring-fenced (the only proper way of doing it), and one can go to court quite quickly, easily and cheaply to ensure that justice is done.

[KeyserSoze01]

Just stay in the room for an additional 60 days without making additional payment. Around day 30 the landlord will start making noise. Smile at them profusely and nod your head. Then don't pay any more and leave when you've used up the time appropriate to the deposit. Might work, might not, but I've heard of folks doing this in the past.

[MaciejKlimowicz]

take problem up with Office of the Consumer Protection Board if she does not refund deposit. (http://www.ocpb.go.th/).

Thanks for the adress, I'll keep it in mind, just in case.

I still hope it's all gonna work out just fine. It's a stressing time for me now (moving houses and stuff) so who knows, maybe I just see things the wrong way, maybe the owner will pay back without hassle? I'll let you know.

Unfortunately if she doesn't, overstaying in the room without paying is not an option as I have alredy booked my new flat and payed a booking fee.

cheers!

[PattayaPhom]

By the time the agent's commission has been added onto the rental cost I expect that it more than covers the cost of a possible lost deposit, so the tenant probably pays either way.

And of course one shouldn't believe that all agents are automatically honest. I seem to remember reports of agents pocketing rental payments, commission and deposits and not passing any of it on to the property owner.

In the UK deposits are ring-fenced (the only proper way of doing it), and one can go to court quite quickly, easily and cheaply to ensure that justice is done.

Commision is paid by the vendor, not the tenant. You must know that, Lease agreements are between the agent and tenant so the deposit must be refunded.

[Darrel]

By the time the agent's commission has been added onto the rental cost I expect that it more than covers the cost of a possible lost deposit, so the tenant probably pays either way.

And of course one shouldn't believe that all agents are automatically honest. I seem to remember reports of agents pocketing rental payments, commission and deposits and not passing any of it on to the property owner.

In the UK deposits are ring-fenced (the only proper way of doing it), and one can go to court quite quickly, easily and cheaply to ensure that justice is done.

Commision is paid by the vendor, not the tenant. You must know that, Lease agreements are between the agent and tenant so the deposit must be refunded.

If the owner is paying commission to anyone he will be tempted to put the rental asking price for a unit up by a similar amount to compensate for this. He may or may not succeed, but he will be tempted and the odds are that the tenant will end up paying extra to cover this. It isn't hard to see that rental asking prices for units from agents tend to be significantly higher than rental asking prices for similar units direct from owners.

As I said, there have been several reported incidences of agents retaining everything ie every single Baht paid by the tenant, and passing nothing on to anyone, including the owner, and refunding nothing either. Thankfully most agents are not so dishonest.

[meand]

I notice in Thailand there is a strong tendency for money that has actually been handed over, to stay handed over. Refunds and deposits seem to come back at an astonishingly low rate, relatively speaking. I have been lucky here with the deposits so far. But I agree with some of the other posters, I remember when we needed a cheap pipe replaced in our apartment bathroom, the guy came in and charged us 100 baht for the new pipe he put in. I paid and asked him if that meant we should take it with us when we left. Hardly worth getting worked up over, but the fact that this seemed to be the policy in a very prominent building always blew me away. Get used to it I guess

[AyG]

The non-return of deposits is, of course, a common issue in Thailand. However, I believe it stems from different expectations. In the West, if you leave a place in a clean state, with nothing broken, then you'll get your deposit back - there's an allowance for normal wear and tear. Here in Thailand that's not the case. The landlord expects everything to be exactly as it was when the property was rented. In my case there were deductions for the front gate which had rusted through, for jet cleaning the pipes leading from the sink since they had become partly blocked, replacing a few plants in the garden which had died, and a few other similar things - none of which was my fault. After all the various deductions I got back about 20% of the original deposit.

[meand]

^No doubt most of what you say is true, but it is just not ethical business practice. I'm not an expert on Thai culture, but i'm sure much of this stuff stems from the heavy Chinese influence here, Thais probably adopted the Chinese way of doing things somewhere along the line. Not to mention of course that much of the property is owned by Chinese. It is pretty much just pointing at arbitrary stuff until the security deposit is gone, they bank on the fact that you have no leverage of course, and that Thais don't speak up at all. I have stayed in farang joints (or at least half being rented by farang), and haven't had a problem, probably precisely because they flip when someone unfairly charges them. When/if this does happen to me, i'd raise hell a little, and if that didn't work i'd just drop it and forget it -- like a dog with some bark but no bite... but they wouldn't know that It amazes me how many times speaking up will get you exactly what you want though.

Edited June 28, 2012 by meand

[MaciejKlimowicz]

The deal is done. After 2 hours of negotiating I got 12k od my 18k depisit back.

The money was deducted for two damaged chairs and a burned kitchen top (repetedly refered to as "the burned chicken" )

I'm not entirely happy with what I got but it could have been worse if I didn't put my food down. In the beginning they wanted to deduct 3k for each of the chairs (two of them) and 6k for the top. By the way, I got the chairs too.

The bottom line is that It's not easy, they do try to look for a reasin not to pay you your money back and you do not have any leverage except for your negotiation skills.

good lick with your deposits!

Mac

[Darrel]

..... "the burned chicken" .....

.... I didn't put my food down.......

..... good lick with your deposits! .....

Sounds tasty.

[meand]

The deal is done. After 2 hours of negotiating I got 12k od my 18k depisit back.

The money was deducted for two damaged chairs and a burned kitchen top (repetedly refered to as "the burned chicken" )

I'm not entirely happy with what I got but it could have been worse if I didn't put my food down. In the beginning they wanted to deduct 3k for each of the chairs (two of them) and 6k for the top. By the way, I got the chairs too.

The bottom line is that It's not easy, they do try to look for a reasin not to pay you your money back and you do not have any leverage except for your negotiation skills.

good lick with your deposits!

Mac

You're right, and I think the real take home point here is to negotiate smaller (or no) deposits at the outset, if that is possible. Negotiate when you sign, not after, if the money is important to you anyway.