Thai 'Red Shirts' Stage Mass Protest In Bangkok

[THAIPHUKET]

Bloomberg: Taksin, The Silvio Berlusconi of Asia

http://www.bloomberg...ni-of-asia.html

[philw]

The Ted Shirts got what they wanted- a PTP government.

Now the government has failed these Red Shirts in so many ways, they need to be manipulated into believing that the new enemy is Law and Order in order to keep them distracted from reality.

I bet less than 1% of the hoohahs that were gathered there yesterday would know the constitution if you put it under their noses. Even less than that would read it if you gave them a free copy and 500B. Even less again would figure out the reason for the changes.

Still, in a True Democracy even the ignorant have the right to demonstrate for things they have no understanding of

I believe that it was Hitler in "Mein Kampf" who said that in order to control a mass you need to play with emotions not with "argumentation". There are no central policies or ideologies in the red movement and there never has been. Thaksin's elite mob of red leaders have understood this lesson from fascism. Just a thought!

that guide books are for the Nazis and the Communists almost the same.....Same methods....similar in every detail.

The methodology is similar, the messages are different, the results are the same. Was Mao or Stalin any diferent from Hitler of Mussolini? I think not. Is Thaksin any different? Absolutely not.

Wow, there's an over stretch.

[maidu]

<deleted> are they protesting about??? They're already in power!!! It just proves that some people are impossible to please!!!

The red shirts are not in power, they only supported the current government & have been thrown a few crumbs although I would guess their leaders are getting fairly well paid.

Many Red Shirts are MP´s in PTP.

PT party and the Reds are a mixture of allies and the same thing. Every so often, there's a murmur from a Red Shirt, hinting that he/she's not completely in love with everything Thaksin. But it's less than a family squabble. Anyone who thinks the Reds are not marching to the same martial tune as PT party, is not following the drumbeats close enough.

[nurofiend]

The methodology is similar, the messages are different, the results are the same. Was Mao or Stalin any diferent from Hitler of Mussolini? I think not. Is Thaksin any different? Absolutely not.

well I think this warrants challenging (not because I want Thaksin back or think he's a saint) but in fairness you can't compare to Mao,Stalin,Hitler or Mussolini - Stalin and Hitler killed millions and I dont remember Thaksin doing so and that's just scratching the surface of any comparison as it's not worth going further. You do your cause no favors by using silly comparisons like this one - i think we can all figure out the Thaksin did not burn in ovens millions of people! so debate and attack for sure but keep common sense pleeze

in fairness you can't compare to Mao,Stalin,Hitler or Mussolini - Stalin and Hitler

you can though, happens all the time.

[rubl]

PT party and the Reds are a mixture of allies and the same thing. Every so often, there's a murmur from a Red Shirt, hinting that he/she's not completely in love with everything Thaksin. But it's less than a family squabble. Anyone who thinks the Reds are not marching to the same martial tune as PT party, is not following the drumbeats close enough.

Don't worry, that's why we have re-education camps red-shirt schools to educate the ignorant in what obviously every person will acknowledge to be true "it's not about Thaksin, that's why we wear a shirt with him in common people dress"

[mca]

I know my relatives LOVE these events. One told me it's a huge party.

You're related to Kasit Piromya? Cool!

[Yunla]

Don't worry, that's why we have re-education camps red-shirt schools to educate the ignorant in what obviously every person will acknowledge to be true "it's not about Thaksin, that's why we wear a shirt with him in common people dress"

That T-shirt looks like Thaksin is performing the 'Heimlich maneuver' on Yingluck. Maybe she has got something stuck in her throat. Its probably from that hotel room. Maybe he's doing something else like fastening her medals on from behind. It certainly does not look exactly like an act of 'coitus more ferarum' at all, not even slightly, besides that would be against the law and as we know, neither of them would ever break the law.

In 2010 there were some really stylish T-shirts, bright garish red of course, with Thaksin's handsome face partially superimposed onto Che Guevara's face, with both faces done in a sort of misty black outline, as if their union was taking place in a fantasy dreamland or in heaven. I immediately wanted one. To me there was an obvious bond of fellowship between Thaksin and Che, both of them were extremely wealthy as adults, and both of them executed thousands of people as a way to stop 'crime'. Che also had forced labour camps, where slaves worked while he lived in opulence, and while Thaksin doesn't have camps yet, we can but hope. It was a very stylish T-shirt anyway, but I didn't buy it, because I love democracy.

Edited June 27, 2012 by Yunla

[tominbkk]

I thought Battle was the Reds idea of Democracy?

My posting signature pretty much sums up the red agenda.

[Moruya]

Bloomberg: Taksin, The Silvio Berlusconi of Asia

http://www.bloomberg...ni-of-asia.html

It's a very good report

The reds won't like it because it's true

[binjalin]

The methodology is similar, the messages are different, the results are the same. Was Mao or Stalin any diferent from Hitler of Mussolini? I think not. Is Thaksin any different? Absolutely not.

well I think this warrants challenging (not because I want Thaksin back or think he's a saint) but in fairness you can't compare to Mao,Stalin,Hitler or Mussolini - Stalin and Hitler killed millions and I dont remember Thaksin doing so and that's just scratching the surface of any comparison as it's not worth going further. You do your cause no favors by using silly comparisons like this one - i think we can all figure out the Thaksin did not burn in ovens millions of people! so debate and attack for sure but keep common sense pleeze

in fairness you can't compare to Mao,Stalin,Hitler or Mussolini - Stalin and Hitler

you can though, happens all the time.

well you can compare Santa Clause to Pol Pot but it doesn't make it a 'winning argument'

[Yunla]

well you can compare Santa Clause to Pol Pot but it doesn't make it a 'winning argument'

It would probably make kids worldwide take the "be good for goodness sake" thing more seriously though.

[binjalin]

well you can compare Santa Clause to Pol Pot but it doesn't make it a 'winning argument'

It would probably make kids worldwide take the "be good for goodness sake" thing more seriously though.

hmmm maybe that's true - and Santa does keep wearing a red shirt! dam_n him

[55Jay]

I thought Battle was the Reds idea of Democracy?

My posting signature pretty much sums up the red agenda.

Oh, I thought they all got bussed in together.

[55Jay]

The question one P asked was right on target - "<deleted> are they protesting about?"

Uh, nothing! Wasn't a protest, the crafty AFP author just duped you by using the catch words RED SHIRTS + MASS + PROTEST in the headline.

Then, once he had you spinning up, backed off in the sub-text by saying it was members of the red shirt protest group, then backed off even more by calling it a MASS RALLY then later simply called it a RALLY.

Reuters article posted by Admin never referred to it as a protest, rounding out their story with the police description it was a festive environment with only light police coverage (for 30,000 people).

Nice one guys.

Oh really? Have you read their signs that were written in Thai "Return Democracy to the People"? I think that sends a clear message about what they're protesting about but are so freaking dumb and blind to critically think about the situation. HELLLLOOOoo~!! The PTP, the ones you voted in are the freaking government now! If you want your lives to improve, take it with the government, tell them to work for the people NOW!!! Instead, the government is only inciting violence and to trying to erase all their criminal activities! Look at all those ignorant people cheering for Jatuporn and believing everything he says about the Courts and elites against him. There were bail conditions that he violated! Ahh forget the laws, forget morals, just believe everything your stupid Red leaders tell you. I'm confident that this Red Shirt mob rule is NOT the way Democracy works. I can understand that they now feel like something bigger, a huge movement, but they're so blinded that they are easily duped. It won't stop until the leader say to stop. This will bring out chaos and even more division within Thai society short of a civil war.

Could you imagine regular people who are not Red Shirts voicing out their protests and opposition now? There ARE people who are afraid and want nothing to do with politics because fear of intimidation by the Red Shirts. Cab drivers, business owners, person cooking noodles on the side of the road, wherever you go, people have to either stay hush hush or fear that their daily lives will be ruined. Deep down in their hearts, they want to voice out but they can't because we've seen what the Red Shirts are capable of. This is oppression from a certain group. There are hard core violent protesters out there that will be more than happy to inflict pain for money now that there are so many Red Shirts to support them and hide within the ranks. Look at the boycotting posters and the threat made to anything they're unsatisfied with. I'm sorry but those of you supporting this government and this stupid movement for "Democracy" need to step back and reflect on what's really going on here.

The Democrats got it right this time. They spent the 24th of June talking about the history of Democracy and future of Democracy. They put the information out there not to incite violence or cause hatred amongst each other while the Red Shirt rally is.... well I've already said enough. I've had enough. I'm afraid to post on FB to support the Democrats because I have friends who are Red Shirts, but I need to show support to the Democrats. If my friends disagree with me then so be it but I'm no longer staying silent. It's sad that people have to be afraid to talk about politics, as if it's become the new religion in Thailand. Sad indeed.

Edit: Show me and tell me how any of the government policies (if any) put out to help their supporters have been STOPPED by the opposition. Tell me how the so called Ammart and Elites are ruining any beneficial government policies. Tell me how the courts ruled everything they put out unconstitutional and gave the current government no power to do anything. They were able to pass all those stupid populist policies and even the emergency decree for flood relief funds, so HOW have the opposition and the regular Thai citizens stop this government from doing their job. The 2007 constitution was fair and it allowed them to become government now so why not govern the country within the constitution and make small amendments!?

Oh and I love how they had a little small enactment where Thaksin the PRAI had to bow down to the AMMART. Holy phuqing shit, Thaksin is a PRAI!? What about the Red Shirt leader Thida!? Is she a freaking Prai too!? Dumb and Dumber.

Sorry dude, didn't mean to get you all fired up and write a novel.

No, I didn't. My observation was about the article's inflammatory headline designed to catch your interest, even if it isn't exactly representative of what's contained in the article. Thanks for sharing.

J

[metisdead]

Off topic nonsense posts have been removed.

[MAJIC]

So their version of Democracy,is to Gag the Judiciary so that they can do anything they want with no fear of legal redress,I hope the Red Lovers on tv are now satisfied that their fight was nothing to do with Democracy,and will offer due apolagies for their misjudgment as supporters!

[Yunla]

My dear lady, first of all my excuses for addressing you as such. This is not meant in a pejorative manner, it's just that I'm old-fashioned enough to find it difficult to address you in a different way. My mother at 84 still has a certain influence on my behaviour, luckily for me though my father at 84 no longer physically enforces it .

As you probably will well know indeed, there are still lots of males who have problems adapting to equality and democracy for all. Why, even on this forum there's a recent topic with "Men have to accept women in non-traditional roles". If Thai have a problem adjusting what chance would the average English TV poster have? One can but pity them

Hi rubl, thankyou for your most chivalrous posting. I fully agree that age plays a factor in this generational acceptance of norms. However I feel another factor, called sense of humour, especially the concepts of 'wit' and 'satire' which are understood and used naturally by so many, are not understood or accepted by others.

For example to take the thread topic "red shirts stage mass protest in Bangkok", by protesting in Bangkok, while wearing their red shirts and doing so en masse, they believe they are making a powerful political statement which shows their solidarity and their independence from the dreaded 'elites'. This type of political statement can also be made by satirical writing and art.

The fact they all wear the face of an ultra-rich iniquitous villain does not make them question his motives in funding and encouraging them to march, one might say they are marching on his behalf and yet they do not ask why, nor do they question why their almost exclusively agrarian and bluecollar membership should march with such a flamboyant self-obsessed playboy billionaire as their leader. To another person, an observer, they might look totally different, like cattle on a march demanding to be made into hamburgers.

The point is that some people protest by marching in the streets, rightly or wrongly, and some people protest by acts of writing satire. To give an example re; the quaint 'show respect to female leaders' suggestion, Mrs Thatcher who served as PM in England for 1979-1990, was the target of vitriolic satire and mockery from her first year onwards. The jokes did sometimes involve lewdness, but most of the satire was ultimately based on her percieved corruption and failure to help the poor. Yingluck is currently making Mrs Thatcher look like a saint, in those two matters.

Satirical biting wit used as a weapon against politicians in English parliamentary democracy, dates back to the 1600's and is considered one of the pressure valves of society, allowing people to vent their political anger in acts of creative good humour, without blocking up streets with hordes of angry supporters which can often lead to disaster, as happened in the earlier red shirt mass protest 2010.

This type of violent mob uprising is a vicious circle which leads nowhere and early satirists understood this. You will notice that the red shirt protest in 2010 which cost billions financially and over 90 deaths, actually achieved no change whatsoever, except to polarise further and increase mistrust. By contrast, a well-written book can change the lives and opinions of millions, enrich those peoples' lives and offer them solutions to their life problems.

This obviously requires a certain freedom of speech to be allowed to criticise politicians, a freedom which I consider not only my democratic right but my human right. You will notice that of the people opposing my right to make jokes about female politicians, many of them will later claim they support a free press and don't accept restrictions imposed on them by the mystery 'elites'. Infact censorship of satirical humour or any other forms of non-violent protest is the very essence of true fascism.

Just as the red shirts have the democratic right to peaceful nondisruptive protest against politicians, writers have the democratic right to make fun of the red shirts and the sleazy tinpot mafia dictator they worship. As with Thaksin and also Yingluck, the satirical venom against all politicians increases exponentially the more crimes they commit, and they can only blame themselves for their own corrupt actions and for the ensuing backlash. Put simply, if they were honest and decent leaders they wouldn't get insults thrown at them along with shoes and eggs etc.

Edited June 28, 2012 by Yunla

[nurofiend]

i only skimmed that post but i think i got the jist.

nobody cares if you make jokes about politicians yunla, just don't lie about the joke that you 'weren't' making.

[Yunla]

i only skimmed that post but i think i got the jist.

nobody cares if you make jokes about politicians yunla, just don't lie about the joke that you 'weren't' making.

I realise you were just trolling, but I will go with it. How was my joke comment that the redmob mass protest Tshirt looked like Thaksin giving Yingluck a Heimlich maneuver, a "lie" ? That is what the Tshirt looked like to me. I even said I hope she feels better now. Choking is very unpleasant for the victim.

I hope you realise it is wrong to accuse people of "lies" for no reason.

Edited June 28, 2012 by Yunla

[nurofiend]

i only skimmed that post but i think i got the jist.

nobody cares if you make jokes about politicians yunla, just don't lie about the joke that you 'weren't' making.

I realise you were just trolling, but I will go with it. How was my joke comment that the red Tshirt looked like Thaksin giving Yingluck a Heimlich maneuver, a "lie" ? That is what the Tshirt looked like to me. I even said I hope she feels better now. Choking is very unpleasant for the victim.

I hope you realise it is wrong to accuse people of "lies" for no reason.

stop accusing me of trolling

this was the lie

"Its probably from that hotel room. Maybe he's doing something else like fastening her medals on from behind. It certainly does not look exactly like an act of 'coitus more ferarum' at all, not even slightly"

"I clearly said in the first post, I am sure that they did not do those sick things which you are implying."

you're lie is the implication that the first comment wasn't a sarcastic joke.

keep digging that hole mate.

[Yunla]

stop accusing me of trolling

this was the lie

"Its probably from that hotel room. Maybe he's doing something else like fastening her medals on from behind. It certainly does not look exactly like an act of 'coitus more ferarum' at all, not even slightly"

"I clearly said in the first post, I am sure that they did not do those sick things which you are implying."

you're lie is the implication that the first comment wasn't a sarcastic joke.

keep digging that hole mate.

I'm not the one digging holes. I clearly said the image on the mass protest redmob Tshirt looked like a classic Heimlich maneuver, or possibly fastening medals on from behind. Maybe she got something stuck in her throat in a hotel room, for example maybe a pistachio nut which can often be very troublesome. I clearly said it did not look like anything else.

Edited June 28, 2012 by Yunla

[nurofiend]

stop accusing me of trolling

this was the lie

"Its probably from that hotel room. Maybe he's doing something else like fastening her medals on from behind. It certainly does not look exactly like an act of 'coitus more ferarum' at all, not even slightly"

"I clearly said in the first post, I am sure that they did not do those sick things which you are implying."

you're lie is the implication that the first comment wasn't a sarcastic joke.

keep digging that hole mate.

I'm not the one digging holes. I clearly said the image on the mass protest redmob Tshirt looked like a classic Heimlich maneuver, or possibly fastening medals on from behind. Maybe she got something stuck in her throat in a hotel room, for example maybe a pistachio nut which can often be very troublesome. I clearly said it did not look like anything else.

ok great, ignore the point and content of what i quoted and carry on then.

[Thaddeus]

Carly Simon.

[mca]

Kiki Dee

( I like this game)!

[tlansford]

very 1984......the plebs will never rise up...MiniTrue etc...

The social control theory of Maoism, and by the evidence adopted by Thaksin, believes to keep the people poor and uneducated, was the way to guarantee successful dictatorship, not only pre but post revolution. It is a process of normalisation and acceptance of your children's lack of reading-books and so forth. It explains to me why the redmob marching in the city, are not marching about poverty or lack of education in their own lives today, but simply on the removal 80 years ago of some people they never even met. They cannot march for removing the current government, as PTP is their own government they wanted so much to have. The fact that the PTP government has not helped the redshirts at all is not an issue, but the removal of some people 80 years ago is seen as a huge victory. This is called brainwashing, or to say the acceptance of a state of being, things are bad because they are bad. But 80 years ago things were worse, so we are told, so let us focus on those bygone days instead of asking why in the 21st century digital age Thailand, the poor are just as poor and uneducated under the PTP "power to the people" regime in month nine as they were before PTP came to power.

Don't ask why their PTP leaders have had nine months to put through or even commence projects for school-improvement, new reading books and funding for schools to promote successful teaching. This type of teaching makes kids learn to question and think independently and form their own hypotheses, and correlate views of earlier writers in books into their own written theories. PTP have not funded this type of education of the masses, they have handed out a few hundred cheap chinese computer tablets, which are to many people including myself, seen as barrier to learning, due to technical problems and 'eye candy' distractions of videogames, and transfer from 'reader/writer' participative learning to simply becoming a 'viewer'. PTP do not want educated masses and in the last nine months they have done nothing to change the "blank" nature of their followers or their kids.

Nor have PTP redmob done anything in the last nine months to change the crushing poverty of the poorest in society including many red shirt followers. Don't ask why the PTP rice mortgage scheme actually harms the poorest while providing lucrative skimming for the corrupt overlords. Again, this is a Maoist teaching, keep the workers poor and they will obey you. Promise them great things in the future, while they cope with poverty and educational deprivation today. But importantly, do not change their poverty or blankness, because then they will stop wearing the party colours and start their own projects and take new democratic action in life.

Why this is relevant is that of the tens of thousands of redmob mobilised in this OP, how many of them are educated or financially solvent. How many are like the Maosit ideal - poor and blank, and how hard has PTP worked in the last nine months to keep them exactly that way.

"adopted by Thaksin, believes to keep the people poor and uneducated,"

precisely why his government at the time increased spending on education.

[cdnvic]

We are about one post away from handing out suspensions to the next people to use crude language, accuse others of trolling, and take personal shots at each other.

[tlansford]

Bloomberg: Taksin, The Silvio Berlusconi of Asia

http://www.bloomberg...ni-of-asia.html

It's a very good report

The reds won't like it because it's true

well, it's truthfully his opinion...

(William Pesek is a Bloomberg View columnist. The opinions expressed are his own.)

[OzMick]

Increasing spending on education does not equate to improving education.

This year's return to school saw every Thai family with school age children increase spending on education with only vaguely possible improvements for a very limited few.

[Yunla]

"adopted by Thaksin, believes to keep the people poor and uneducated,"

precisely why his government at the time increased spending on education.

Thaksin "increased spending" on a lot of things, and according to experts working within parliament, he overspent by an estimate 30% (400 billion) compared to normal budgeting (wikipedia Thaksin). By a shocking coincidence, a huge number of those places where this 400bn overspending went to were businesses owned by Thaksin's family and friends. I would suspect that the "increased spending" on education you refer to falls within that 400bn nepotistic overspending.

Perhaps you can explain why after Thaksin's regime, despite his generous "increased spending" to his family and friends, schools in rural areas were falling apart and had no electric, or good quality books. Perhaps you can show how he increased the all-important teaching of independant analysis and opinion-forming, which is how other nations teach their kids from primary school onwards to become innovative and critical thinkers capable of leading and not only following.

By all acounts, Thailand's education system in rural areas is deeply institutionally neglected and was before, during and after Thaksin. Of course Abhisit put a large infrastructure investment project on the table but it was scrapped when the reds took over.

My point stands ; Thaksin did not improve the standards of teaching in Thailand, nor did he improve the overall educational infrastructure of quality teaching regimens, schools, books, electric etc. - and it was in his best interests not to have a smart, leadership-competent population because he wants people not to lead but to follow him blindly, wear his colours and attend mass protests waving big pictures of him around - these are not the actions of critically-minded, independent or innovative thinkers.

Edited June 28, 2012 by Yunla

[Moruya]

Bloomberg: Taksin, The Silvio Berlusconi of Asia

http://www.bloomberg...ni-of-asia.html

It's a very good report

The reds won't like it because it's true

well, it's truthfully his opinion...

(William Pesek is a Bloomberg View columnist. The opinions expressed are his own.)

I've the utmost faith in his fully accredited organ