Thai 'Red Shirts' Stage Mass Protest In Bangkok

[nurofiend]

do you think a minimum wage hike is a policy for the poor?

Minimum wage is instituted in many places around the world, it is not a PTP invention, and the use of minimum wage can be a harmful factor if not introduced in the right setting. It should be introduced alongside things like law-and-order, accountability, and a level playing field for businesses. In a society rife with corruption, minimum wage can actually cripple companies that are already under pressure from corrupt officials and monopolies. So yes minimum wage is a good policy, when introduced alongside well-regulated business practices, which of course Thailand doesn't have.

Minimum wage was introduced as PTP eye-candy populism just like the free computer tablets for all, and all the other pre-election populist promises. Minimum wage has potential to impact the economy negatively with businesses moving to neighbouring countries for cheaper labour. Obviously this loss of business impacts the poor. Again, minimum wage is a great policy when introduced to a well regulated nation which Thailand is not. If the minimum wage is your only evidence of PTP helping the poor, then your argument is sunk already.

In truth PTP have done wasteful things like reintroduced hospital fee which DP had done away with, which is a waste of money in collection-system. Prices of basics under PTP are rising, and their rice policy threatens potential disasters for rural people. The minimum wage has potential backlash problems too.

When I started I talked about PTP helping the poor, and PTP should and could have achieved this by working tirelessly in parliament for the past 12 months to put bills through for rural infrastructure development, education, and ending corruption, these things will benefit the poor in a myriad of long-term positive ways. PTP have not done any of that, their PM is rarely even in Parliament, instead the party offered some cheap showmanship populism which some people including you have been enraptured by.

If the minimum wage is your only evidence of PTP helping the poor, then your argument is sunk already.

sunk how? because you pointed out the extreme obvious about how it is a risk to take? no that hasn't sunk it, sorry.

i believe the argument you make about why she has failed to do anything of substance for those poor people has been sunk, that's why i pointed it out.

you can't argue that this wasn't aimed at the poorer working class people of thailand and you can't say it's not of any substance to anyone because i'm sure to a lot of people it is of great substance.

and don't give me that falsified statement about me being enraptured, i realise they are populist policies, so stop trying to self serve your ego.

just because a policy is a populist one doesn't automatically make it a policy that is not aimed at helping the poor.

it can be both.

[Thaddeus]

just because a policy is a populist one doesn't automatically make it a policy that is not aimed at helping the poor.

it can be both.

Results beat promises every time, so far, results - zero.

[binjalin]

Thaddeus says:

Please stop it with that landslide nonsense.

And for one last time, PTP got 48% of the votes cast, only 75% of the people eligible to vote actual did, so that means they got 48% of 75% which roughly equates to 36% (not that rough actually as an integer)

So, just over a third of the people eligible to vote, voted for them..... this does not qualify for the word landslide.

Now, if you want to hazard a guess at how many of that third of the people that voted for them, was it because of their manifesto, their empty promises, because they wanted Thaskin back, a free Tab PC for the kids, becoming rich in six months, oodles of money to be made on rice production (that the ones at the bottom of the piles will never see) or as my land-lady told me when I asked her "she's a woman" (critical thinking at its best)

The one thing that really pisses me off, and I mean really pisses me off, is a bunch of well healed, life going well sorts, who try to champion the poor by supporting a bunch of self serving criminals who only care about themselves, no matter what they claim.

PTP don't care about the rural Thais, to them they are just cannon fodder, a means to an end for their own enrichment, if you fall for that spiel, you are either deluded or a welcome partner in deception.

forgot to answer one question on credentials/ I did get a piece of paper many years ago from a fairly well respected university in Manchester (that's in England) that says I can do sums.

75% is an extremely HIGH percentage turnout much, much higher than most other elections in 'farangland' and much more than the Dems got so stop twisting it - its was a LANDSLIDE victory and by far the highest percentage - we don't know what the other 25% would have voted as they... wait for it.... didn't vote

and before you start boasting about 'pieces of paper' I'm sure I have many more than you (at a higher level) so that's a cheap, cheap shot let's leave personal boasting to justify your 'brain power' out of it?

[binjalin]

do you think a minimum wage hike is a policy for the poor?

Minimum wage is instituted in many places around the world, it is not a PTP invention, and the use of minimum wage can be a harmful factor if not introduced in the right setting. It should be introduced alongside things like law-and-order, accountability, and a level playing field for businesses. In a society rife with corruption, minimum wage can actually cripple companies that are already under pressure from corrupt officials and monopolies. So yes minimum wage is a good policy, when introduced alongside well-regulated business practices, which of course Thailand doesn't have.

Minimum wage was introduced as PTP eye-candy populism just like the free computer tablets for all, and all the other pre-election populist promises. Minimum wage has potential to impact the economy negatively with businesses moving to neighbouring countries for cheaper labour. Obviously this loss of business impacts the poor. Again, minimum wage is a great policy when introduced to a well regulated nation which Thailand is not. If the minimum wage is your only evidence of PTP helping the poor, then your argument is sunk already.

In truth PTP have done wasteful things like reintroduced hospital fee which DP had done away with, which is a waste of money in collection-system. Prices of basics under PTP are rising, and their rice policy threatens potential disasters for rural people. The minimum wage has potential backlash problems too.

When I started I talked about PTP helping the poor, and PTP should and could have achieved this by working tirelessly in parliament for the past 12 months to put bills through for rural infrastructure development, education, and ending corruption, these things will benefit the poor in a myriad of long-term positive ways. PTP have not done any of that, their PM is rarely even in Parliament, instead the party offered some cheap showmanship populism which some people including you have been enraptured by.

If the minimum wage is your only evidence of PTP helping the poor, then your argument is sunk already.

sunk how? because you pointed out the extreme obvious about how it is a risk to take? no that hasn't sunk it, sorry.

i believe the argument you make about why she has failed to do anything of substance for those poor people has been sunk, that's why i pointed it out.

you can't argue that this wasn't aimed at the poorer working class people of thailand and you can't say it's not of any substance to anyone because i'm sure to a lot of people it is of great substance.

and don't give me that falsified statement about me being enraptured, i realise they are populist policies, so stop trying to self serve your ego.

just because a policy is a populist one doesn't automatically make it a policy that is not aimed at helping the poor.

it can be both.

This poster will never 'get it' he even tries to twist the election results and forgets to mention it's 65% in England and 57% in USA and... 75% in Thailand so he needs to go back to his Manchester Uni (that's in England he tell's us) and ask them 'what happened'?

[Yunla]

sunk how? because you pointed out the extreme obvious about how it is a risk to take? no that hasn't sunk it, sorry.

i believe the argument you make about why she has failed to do anything of substance for those poor people has been sunk, that's why i pointed it out.

you can't argue that this wasn't aimed at the poorer working class people of thailand and you can't say it's not of any substance to anyone because i'm sure to a lot of people it is of great substance.

and don't give me that falsified statement about me being enraptured, i realise they are populist policies, so stop trying to self serve your ego.

just because a policy is a populist one doesn't automatically make it a policy that is not aimed at helping the poor.

it can be both.

This poster will never 'get it' he even tries to twist the election results and forgets to mention it's 65% in England and 57% in USA and... 75% in Thailand so he needs to go back to his Manchester Uni (that's in England he tell's us) and ask them 'what happened'?

Is Nurofiend from Manchester?

[whybother]

75% is an extremely HIGH percentage turnout much, much higher than most other elections in 'farangland' and much more than the Dems got so stop twisting it - its was a LANDSLIDE victory and by far the highest percentage - we don't know what the other 25% would have voted as they... wait for it.... didn't vote

and before you start boasting about 'pieces of paper' I'm sure I have many more than you (at a higher level) so that's a cheap, cheap shot let's leave personal boasting to justify your 'brain power' out of it?

It's not even a majority. How is it a landslide?

[Yunla]

sunk how? because you pointed out the extreme obvious about how it is a risk to take? no that hasn't sunk it, sorry.

i believe the argument you make about why she has failed to do anything of substance for those poor people has been sunk, that's why i pointed it out.

you can't argue that this wasn't aimed at the poorer working class people of thailand and you can't say it's not of any substance to anyone because i'm sure to a lot of people it is of great substance.

and don't give me that falsified statement about me being enraptured, i realise they are populist policies, so stop trying to self serve your ego.

just because a policy is a populist one doesn't automatically make it a policy that is not aimed at helping the poor.

it can be both.

You really do dance around a lot. I said PTP have failed to implement meaningful policies to improve rural infrastructure, schools, health, roads, water, etc.etc. they are a policy-wasteland with 10% voting in parliament and 0% meaningful bills proposed.

Instead of answering that point, you put on your little hobgoblin boots and dance around, rattling off stuff about my ego in this kind of fragmented posting style of yours which never faces the issues head-on and instead picks out words and targets them with anything you can think of.

And you go off on a crusade about minimum wage, I am a 100% minimum-wage proponent, but I was talking about infrastructure, schools, health etc. Also you earlier assaulted my theory of PTP intentionally keeping people poor and stupid, and that is why redmob are out mobilising all the time, and in reality a few extra baht per hour doesn't change that situation at all - major infrastructure improvement across the board does. Your posts are increasingly desperate, you are like somebody standing in a barren field clutching the only wheat-straw and saying "look - a crop!"

PTP are in government for one year already and they have not implemented or even proposed bills to improve the lives of poor people in the fundamental ways of schooling, jobs, housing, health, water, roads, anti-corruption, assistance for the most needy, which are united by the commonality of being long-term infrastructure which will improve lives for generations and have entirely positive cumulative progressive knock-on effects. The one thing you responded with has as many potential negative effects as positives, in this country today.

Edited July 3, 2012 by Yunla

[Thaddeus]

and before you start boasting about 'pieces of paper' I'm sure I have many more than you (at a higher level) so that's a cheap, cheap shot let's leave personal boasting to justify your 'brain power' out of it?

I was asked the question, I answered it, if that is boasting in your world I can easily understand how you can rationalise 36% as a landslide.

[nurofiend]

sunk how? because you pointed out the extreme obvious about how it is a risk to take? no that hasn't sunk it, sorry.

i believe the argument you make about why she has failed to do anything of substance for those poor people has been sunk, that's why i pointed it out.

you can't argue that this wasn't aimed at the poorer working class people of thailand and you can't say it's not of any substance to anyone because i'm sure to a lot of people it is of great substance.

and don't give me that falsified statement about me being enraptured, i realise they are populist policies, so stop trying to self serve your ego.

just because a policy is a populist one doesn't automatically make it a policy that is not aimed at helping the poor.

it can be both.

You really do dance around a lot. I said PTP have failed to implement meaningful policies to improve rural infrastructure, schools, health, roads, water, etc.etc. they are a policy-wasteland with 10% voting in parliament and 0% meaningful bills proposed.

Instead of answering that point, you put on your little hobgoblin boots and dance around, rattling off stuff about my ego in this kind of fragmented posting style of yours which never faces the issues head-on and instead picks out words and targets them with anything you can think of.

And you go off on a crusade about minimum wage, I am a 100% minimum-wage proponent, but I was talking about infrastructure, schools, health etc. Also you earlier assaulted my theory of PTP intentionally keeping people poor and stupid, and that is why redmob are out mobilising all the time, and in reality a few extra baht per hour doesn't change that situation at all - major infrastructure improvement across the board does. Your posts are increasingly desperate, you are like somebody standing in a barren field clutching the only wheat-straw and saying "look - a crop!"

PTP are in government for one year already and they have not implemented or even proposed bills to improve the lives of poor people in the fundamental ways of schooling, jobs, housing, health, water, roads, anti-corruption, assistance for the most needy, which are united by the commonality of being long-term infrastructure which will improve lives for generations and have entirely positive cumulative progressive knock-on effects. The one thing you responded with has as many potential negative effects as positives, in this country today.

'the one thing i responded with' made a fool out of your false statement, it only took that one thing to do it.

you always talk about unanswered points when you never seem to be asking any questions, you just go off in a tangent of block text, void of paragraph, drawn out posts and quite frankly they are an absolute chore to read.

Edited July 3, 2012 by nurofiend

[nurofiend]

sunk how? because you pointed out the extreme obvious about how it is a risk to take? no that hasn't sunk it, sorry.

i believe the argument you make about why she has failed to do anything of substance for those poor people has been sunk, that's why i pointed it out.

you can't argue that this wasn't aimed at the poorer working class people of thailand and you can't say it's not of any substance to anyone because i'm sure to a lot of people it is of great substance.

and don't give me that falsified statement about me being enraptured, i realise they are populist policies, so stop trying to self serve your ego.

just because a policy is a populist one doesn't automatically make it a policy that is not aimed at helping the poor.

it can be both.

This poster will never 'get it' he even tries to twist the election results and forgets to mention it's 65% in England and 57% in USA and... 75% in Thailand so he needs to go back to his Manchester Uni (that's in England he tell's us) and ask them 'what happened'?

Is Nurofiend from Manchester?

hohoho

[tlansford]

75% is an extremely HIGH percentage turnout much, much higher than most other elections in 'farangland' and much more than the Dems got so stop twisting it - its was a LANDSLIDE victory and by far the highest percentage - we don't know what the other 25% would have voted as they... wait for it.... didn't vote

and before you start boasting about 'pieces of paper' I'm sure I have many more than you (at a higher level) so that's a cheap, cheap shot let's leave personal boasting to justify your 'brain power' out of it?

It's not even a majority. How is it a landslide?

40 parties contesting the election and 1 party gets 48+% of the vote. That is how.

[rubl]

75% is an extremely HIGH percentage turnout much, much higher than most other elections in 'farangland' and much more than the Dems got so stop twisting it - its was a LANDSLIDE victory and by far the highest percentage - we don't know what the other 25% would have voted as they... wait for it.... didn't vote

and before you start boasting about 'pieces of paper' I'm sure I have many more than you (at a higher level) so that's a cheap, cheap shot let's leave personal boasting to justify your 'brain power' out of it?

It's not even a majority. How is it a landslide?

40 parties contesting the election and 1 party gets 48+% of the vote. That is how.

To the best of my knowledge:

Thailand General Elections 2011-06-03

Registered electorate: 46,904,823

Total votes cast (valid/invalid): 35,469,811 (75.62%)

party votes (% of cast, % of registered elect.)

Pheu Thai party: 15,744,190 (44.38%, 33.57%)

Democrat party: 11,433,762 (32.24%, 24.38%)

[Yunla]

hohoho

I don't understand the poster referring to go back to Manchester etc., and quoting my post and your post. I'm not from Manchester and I hadn't quoted any of those numbers so I was wondering if the poster was talking about you nurofiend.

Edited July 3, 2012 by Yunla

[Yunla]

'the one thing i responded with' made a fool out of your false statement, it only took that one thing to do it.

you always talk about unanswered points when you never seem to be asking any questions, you just go off in a tangent of block text, void of paragraph, drawn out posts and quite frankly they are an absolute chore to read.

To be honest, based on your responses to my posts you do not read them anyway (you even claimed to skim them before responding) and in your haste to challenge me and to impale yourself on my facts and figures and my logic. This wont be the first time you've crawled away from my balanced and considered sociopolitical propositions in defeat. I wish you would read the posts and answer them with interesting facts and figures and arguments but you never do. You always have the last word though, which I have learned is all you really wanted anyway.

Edited July 3, 2012 by Yunla

[tlansford]

75% is an extremely HIGH percentage turnout much, much higher than most other elections in 'farangland' and much more than the Dems got so stop twisting it - its was a LANDSLIDE victory and by far the highest percentage - we don't know what the other 25% would have voted as they... wait for it.... didn't vote

and before you start boasting about 'pieces of paper' I'm sure I have many more than you (at a higher level) so that's a cheap, cheap shot let's leave personal boasting to justify your 'brain power' out of it?

It's not even a majority. How is it a landslide?

40 parties contesting the election and 1 party gets 48+% of the vote. That is how.

To the best of my knowledge:

Thailand General Elections 2011-06-03

Registered electorate: 46,904,823

Total votes cast (valid/invalid): 35,469,811 (75.62%)

party votes (% of cast, % of registered elect.)

Pheu Thai party: 15,744,190 (44.38%, 33.57%)

Democrat party: 11,433,762 (32.24%, 24.38%)

what's the point Rubl?

Are you trying to avoid the % which is the only one that counts? (hint, valid votes cast).

It was still a landslide.

But I don't expect the landslide deniers to come 'round to that. Just like the holocaust denie- ... Aaaaaah, ... another Hitler comparison on TVF, ... aaaaaaahhhhhh....

(coffee... )

hah, well, now that's better. Where was I, oh, yeah, the vote result that counts comes from votes cast and considered valid votes. The only result that really counts is the number of seats in parliament of which the PTP, among the 40 parties contesting the election, won 53%

AKA, landslide.

[chotthee]

That people must have the right to protest, regardless of colour.

[Moruya]

That people must have the right to protest, regardless of colour.

So the future has a place for we white boys?

[Buchholz]

Red shirts not to rally at high court

The red shirts will not rally on Thursday and Friday to coincide with the Constitution Court's inquiry on the charter amendment bill, Deputy Agriculture Minister Natthawut Saikua said on Tuesday. "The red shirts will not pressure the court," he said.

Natthawut said he believed the majority of the people backed the government in pushing for charter change.

To defend the rewriting of the charter, the relevant parties would outline factual evidence that the proposed charter amendments were within the legal limits and in accordance with the government's pledge in Parliament, he said.

If opponents tried to exercise the extra-constitutional power in order to oust the government, then the ongoing political crisis would be unsolvable, he said.

Should the high court hand down an unfavourable verdict, the government would fight for an overturn, he said, adding he believed such a verdict would backfire and rally even stronger support for the government.

He also said he was disappointed at seeing the same opponents, such as Kaewsun Atibodhi and Surapon Nitikraipot, on the list of witnesses to testify against charter change.

-- The Nation 2012-07-03

[Moruya]

The red shirts will not rally on Thursday and Friday to coincide with the Constitution Court's inquiry on the charter amendment bill, Deputy Agriculture Minister Natthawut Saikua said on Tuesday. "The red shirts will not pressure the court," he said.

Then go home and have a nice cup of tea.

Natthawut said he believed the majority of the people backed the government in pushing for charter change.

Then he shoud read the Thai opinion polls

To defend the rewriting of the charter, the relevant parties would outline factual evidence that the proposed charter amendments were within the legal limits and in accordance with the government's pledge in Parliament, he said.

The rewriting of the whole charter is considered illegal. He and his cohorts should be honest and present the sections they propose to change and outline the proposed changes.

If opponents tried to exercise the extra-constitutional power in order to oust the government, then the ongoing political crisis would be unsolvable, he said.

The Red Shirts are extra-constitutional - they are not a political group - there for he is being hypocritical

Should the high court hand down an unfavourable verdict, the government would fight for an overturn, he said, adding he believed such a verdict would backfire and rally even stronger support for the government.

More threats from the Red Shirts. How predictable and boring

He also said he was disappointed at seeing the same opponents, such as Kaewsun Atibodhi and Surapon Nitikraipot, on the list of witnesses to testify against charter change.

They must all be sick of the sight of him and the other thugs masquerading under the name of democracy

[Buchholz]

Red shirts not to rally at high court

The red shirts will not rally on Thursday and Friday

The other paper elucidates that while the Red Shirts will not be massing at the Constitution Court building as earlier announced, Natthawut said that they will be monitoring the Court on those days at the Imperial Lat Phrao department store, the scene of previous Red Shirt press conferences and speeches.

He also expressed expectation that the pro-amendment witnesses and the Pheu Thai Party would be able to convince the Court that their efforts were constitutional.

.

[binjalin]

and before you start boasting about 'pieces of paper' I'm sure I have many more than you (at a higher level) so that's a cheap, cheap shot let's leave personal boasting to justify your 'brain power' out of it?

I was asked the question, I answered it, if that is boasting in your world I can easily understand how you can rationalise 36% as a landslide.

you know full well 48% of the votes cast for 40 parties against the party in power who tried to use the 'we did a great job' is a landslide in anyone's book - if the Dems had achieved it you would be trumpeting it as 'a demolishion of the reds' I can't be bothered to go back and read all the TVF predictions but I know one thing - they were totally, totally wrong in every respect.

You are supporting an opposition that wants to halt ALL progress ALL reconciliations and ALL improvements to the constitution AND supports using the Courts (again) to bring down a democratically elected government and why??? because you cannot separate Thaksin from anyone opposing the Dems and their yellow cohorts.

[binjalin]

just because a policy is a populist one doesn't automatically make it a policy that is not aimed at helping the poor.

it can be both.

Results beat promises every time, so far, results - zero.

you know you are RIGHT!

Result of election??? PTP wins... so yes I agree with your comment - thanks for clarifying

[Thaddeus]

and before you start boasting about 'pieces of paper' I'm sure I have many more than you (at a higher level) so that's a cheap, cheap shot let's leave personal boasting to justify your 'brain power' out of it?

I was asked the question, I answered it, if that is boasting in your world I can easily understand how you can rationalise 36% as a landslide.

you know full well 48% of the votes cast for 40 parties against the party in power who tried to use the 'we did a great job' is a landslide in anyone's book - if the Dems had achieved it you would be trumpeting it as 'a demolishion of the reds' I can't be bothered to go back and read all the TVF predictions but I know one thing - they were totally, totally wrong in every respect.

You are supporting an opposition that wants to halt ALL progress ALL reconciliations and ALL improvements to the constitution AND supports using the Courts (again) to bring down a democratically elected government and why??? because you cannot separate Thaksin from anyone opposing the Dems and their yellow cohorts.

Thaksin will not allow himself to be separated, well, he tried it once and then realised he had dropped a monumental <deleted>.

[Moruya]

Red shirts not to rally at high court

The red shirts will not rally on Thursday and Friday

The other paper elucidates that while the Red Shirts will not be massing at the Constitution Court building as earlier announced, Natthawut said that they will be monitoring the Court on those days at the Imperial Lat Phrao department store, the scene of previous Red Shirt press conferences and speeches.

He also expressed expectation that the pro-amendment witnesses and the Pheu Thai Party would be able to convince the Court that their efforts were constitutional.

.

With grenade launchers?

[Moruya]

just because a policy is a populist one doesn't automatically make it a policy that is not aimed at helping the poor.

it can be both.

Results beat promises every time, so far, results - zero.

you know you are RIGHT!

Result of election??? PTP wins... so yes I agree with your comment - thanks for clarifying

There are people who add to the debate, people who subtract from the debate and those who pass through the debate, making comments ghost like that do neither

[rubl]

It's not even a majority. How is it a landslide?

40 parties contesting the election and 1 party gets 48+% of the vote. That is how.

To the best of my knowledge:

Thailand General Elections 2011-06-03

Registered electorate: 46,904,823

Total votes cast (valid/invalid): 35,469,811 (75.62%)

party votes (% of cast, % of registered elect.)

Pheu Thai party: 15,744,190 (44.38%, 33.57%)

Democrat party: 11,433,762 (32.24%, 24.38%)

what's the point Rubl?

Are you trying to avoid the % which is the only one that counts? (hint, valid votes cast).

It was still a landslide.

But I don't expect the landslide deniers to come 'round to that. Just like the holocaust denie- ... Aaaaaah, ... another Hitler comparison on TVF, ... aaaaaaahhhhhh....

(coffee... )

hah, well, now that's better. Where was I, oh, yeah, the vote result that counts comes from votes cast and considered valid votes. The only result that really counts is the number of seats in parliament of which the PTP, among the 40 parties contesting the election, won 53%

AKA, landslide.

My dear phiphidon, my apologies if my providing (99.8%) accurate figures on the 2011 General Election results is deemed offensive. Clearly and obviously [sic] it was not my intention to disturb or even correct the truth as some will have it. That would be against the Universal Rights of Mankind to believe what one wants. Still if my apology is not enough, you may have me apprehended, I will not flee the country and am fully prepared to be handed over to the ICC (the Netherlands being a signatory) and suffer the consequences of my attrocious behaviour

Edited July 3, 2012 by rubl

[nurofiend]

'the one thing i responded with' made a fool out of your false statement, it only took that one thing to do it.

you always talk about unanswered points when you never seem to be asking any questions, you just go off in a tangent of block text, void of paragraph, drawn out posts and quite frankly they are an absolute chore to read.

To be honest, based on your responses to my posts you do not read them anyway (you even claimed to skim them before responding) and in your haste to challenge me and to impale yourself on my facts and figures and my logic. This wont be the first time you've crawled away from my balanced and considered sociopolitical propositions in defeat. I wish you would read the posts and answer them with interesting facts and figures and arguments but you never do. You always have the last word though, which I have learned is all you really wanted anyway.

This wont be the first time you've crawled away from my balanced and considered sociopolitical propositions in defeat.

'balanced and considered' - that's a good one yunla

you seem to enjoy claiming non-existent victories, yet you don't acknowledge that your argument about ptp not implementing policies to help the poor is just plain wrong, you are wrong.

you then change it to, yeah but they are populist and they might be risky... and i agree but you're still wrong about the failure to put in policies to help the poor.

so i'm not crawling away from defeat as you so falsely stated (maybe self serving that ego again?), i just find any interaction with you as fruitless because you're constantly slightly altering 'what you were actually saying' when you're caught out on it.

btw i meant that i skim the posts as soon as i realise it's one of the ones you've said a million times already.

i did feel the need to respond to that post but please, you most certainly can have the ultimate last word because i've learned my lesson with you now.

Edited July 3, 2012 by nurofiend

[nurofiend]

just because a policy is a populist one doesn't automatically make it a policy that is not aimed at helping the poor.

it can be both.

Results beat promises every time, so far, results - zero.

you know you are RIGHT!

Result of election??? PTP wins... so yes I agree with your comment - thanks for clarifying

There are people who add to the debate, people who subtract from the debate and those who pass through the debate, making comments ghost like that do neither

moruya, you always seem to ironically shoot yourself in the foot with comments

[Thaddeus]

you seem to enjoy claiming non-existent victories, yet you don't acknowledge that your argument about ptp not implementing policies to help the poor is just plain wrong, you are wrong.

Out of the fairly extensive list of pre-election promises, name any that have been fulfilled to completion, and out of that list name one that has benefited the poor in any way,

Just one, shouldn't be that difficult.

[nurofiend]

you seem to enjoy claiming non-existent victories, yet you don't acknowledge that your argument about ptp not implementing policies to help the poor is just plain wrong, you are wrong.

Out of the fairly extensive list of pre-election promises, name any that have been fulfilled to completion, and out of that list name one that has benefited the poor in any way,

Just one, shouldn't be that difficult.

and it shouldn't be that difficult for you to read that i didn't say any were fulfilled to completion... because that wasn't the point i was making.