Guest IT Manager Posted January 28, 2004 Share Posted January 28, 2004 Today, Jan 28, 3PM, Hooh Yoh Akha Village Ampur Mae Faluang, Chiangrai Province Thailand. Two women Human Rights Observers were ARRESTED by THAI army personell and transported to the Haen Taek Police Station. Ms. Amber Lee Solomon 24, of Sault Sainte Marie, Ontario, Canada Passport Number VM182834 Ms. Billeigh Waaha, 25, of Melbourne, Australia Passport Number L4014938 These two women have taken up a posting in the Akha village of Hooh Yoh, Haen Taek, Ampur Mae Faluang, Chiangrai Province, Thailand for several days to document the seizure of the entire farm land of Hooh Yoh Village Cluster, amounting to the land of 1019 people, 250 families. Staying with an Akha family they daily photographed the project that was being built on Akha land, the government "helping" the Akha by taking all their land. We urgently need you to contact your Thai Embassy and demand an explanation. We need people to assist us in organizing protests to the Thai government, that Human Rights Observers will not be harassed in this way. This is urgent. We don't need action next week, we need it now, these two women are now in jail. Call the embassy nearest you, email them, demand an explanation and the IMMEDIATE UNCONDITIONAL RELEASE OF THESE WOMEN. Lahu, Chinese, and Lisu families area effected as well by this land seizure. Two months ago 8 Akha men and women were arrested. Four of them women, two women were more than eight months pregnant. They were arrested for trying to farm their land anyway. Forestry and Third Army were the project organizers and those who carried out the arrests then. These eight villagers were fined 15,000 baht, about $400 US dollars and spent more than 20 days in a small cell together. After their release they were told to pay 135,000 baht more each, about $4000. They went into hiding as they could not pay. The Thai government, which makes millions advertising the hill tribe, treks, air fares, taxis, hotels, and a host of pandering tourism, gives nothing back to these people and steadily relocates them and puts them in prison. What ever the reason, and there is always a reason, the Akha are abused. The only good Akha is a DEAD AKHA the Thai government thinks. And so it is, we have filed 46 cases of murder and torture, with the UN via a 1503 filing, and this is just the events of two years, events we HEARD about. ******* Write, protest, call, demand the Thai government release these women and issue an apology. Contact for more details. Matthew McDaniel e-mail [email protected] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest IT Manager Posted January 28, 2004 Share Posted January 28, 2004 This a few minutes ago: SOLIDARITY PROTEST - CHIANGRAI MASSIVE SHOW OF SUPPORT!!!!! MAYBE ITS ABOUT TIME THE THAI GOVERNMENT FOUND OUT THAT FALANGS COME HERE TO DO MORE THAN PARTY!!!!! The Thais think they can arrest Human Rights Observers protecting defenseless Akha people. Akha villagers gathered to watch the army haul off their friends, no other help in miles to see, just a few falangs and one beat up truck. The Canadian woman Amber Solomon and the Australian woman Billeigh Waaha asked as they were being taken away that I tell their story and call for as many people to come to Hooh Yoh Akha village to replace them and let the Thais know just what it is we all think. If you are not in Thailand COME! If you are in Thailand, COME! Get off the beach, come to the mountain air. Genocide of these people must stop!!! Come to Chiangrai. Go north to Mae Chan and then north a few kilometers to Pasang JCT. This is the road to Doi Mae Salong. Then to Som Yaek Jct. where the army check point is. From there to Haen Taek. From Haen Taek take the road to Hua Mae Kom. But before you get there stop at Bpah Mah Hahn village and ask for Matthew at the Akha village. The cowboy, the black truck, any discription will do. When you arrive we will plan and go to Hooh Yoh Akha. Human Rights Observers have specific rights under the UN. The Thai Government apparently doesn't think anyone has any Human Rights. If you can not come, then contact your foreign ministry, don't waste time, this is urgent. And there isn't ANYBODY ELSE OUT HERE IN THE WOODS. Just one Scotsman. OBSERVERS NEEDED!!! OBSERVERS NEEDED!!! OBSERVERS NEEDED!!! WE NEED A MASSIVE SHOW OF SUPPORT FOR THESE WOMEN AND FOR THE AKHA OF HOOH YOH AKHA VILLAGE!!!!!! Matthew McDaniel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tuky Posted January 29, 2004 Share Posted January 29, 2004 What is the story here IT? whats going on... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest IT Manager Posted January 29, 2004 Share Posted January 29, 2004 Another Akha village in Amphur Mae Fah Luang has been ordered to move, to make way for a "tourist development". The Akha normally live in the higher mountains, but are being moved into the lowlands, according to the Thai Army, to stop them "plundering" the trees. It appears also that there is a plan to make a tourist resort in the area. I am hoping to get more from Matthew shortly, however, in that area there have been several "extra-judicial killings, a euphemism for police or army murders, of Akha men. In recent times, i the same area, a large number of people (not Akha notably), have had their citizenship revoked and the assistant coroner is currently testing people to ensure their DNA is Thai. It bodes well for Thailand as a country, that currently the Thai Press, specifically Thai Rath, have been taking the Government to task, also that Sanitsuda Ekachai from the post, has come out in print about the murder of the Hill Tribes in general, and quite correctly, she has not been specific about Akha, but rather general in naming several groups, currently suffering. To back up the actions of the police under the instructions of, to date, unnamed persons, the army have imposed huge fines for farming land where the Akha have farmed for years. Fines which in a life time for an Akha Farmer could never be paid. One is always thoughtful about offending the offensive, however this has in the minds of many in the area of Human Rights monitoring, been long coming. I often wish tourists coming in on TG flights, looking through the glossy seat back magazine, knew what happened to the Akha in the country-side, as opposed to those who are allowed to beg in the night bazaars of the country, who pay a "tax" to the police so they don't get kicked out of the country with no judicial process, with no access to a court or a decision making body. Just thrown into trucks, dragged off to some tiny corner of the country and pushed into the no-mans land between the country gates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khun ? Posted January 29, 2004 Share Posted January 29, 2004 What about the beverly hillbillies? Are they still free Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plachon Posted January 29, 2004 Share Posted January 29, 2004 What about the beverly hillbillies? Are they still free Piss off Khun ???????? you insensitive <deleted>. If you can't post anything more intelligent than that, then just butt out and stick to the jokes page. IT, as a matter of interest, once the Akha are moved off their land, who comes in and claims it to build these tourist developments? Is it powerful local business figures who then sell it on, or do the police / army themselves try to set up tourist resorts? If there are any names I may have heard of, at least I and others could show solidarity by not frequenting / buying anything to do with these scum. For example, not so many years ago, the Dusit Group was proposing setting up a hotel, golf course, casino, etc., even airport, development down on one of the islands near the falls in Southern Laos. It would have screwed up the local ecosystem big time and led to lots of villagers being kicked off their land. It fell through luckily because of the 97 crash mostly, but it shows how these big hotel chains often think nothing about moving into "virgin" areas, perceived as cheap and available because the local people have no voice. please keep us updated on events in Mae Fah Luang. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piet pompies Posted January 29, 2004 Share Posted January 29, 2004 will fax and e-mail Thai Embassy and colleagues will do same. Thanks for bringin this up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest IT Manager Posted January 29, 2004 Share Posted January 29, 2004 Thank you people. Poor Khun fell over in the midst of his endorphine attack and has been told to be quiet for 100 hours. The Akha want nothing more than to be left alone, without having to transport drugs for the police in return for not going to jail or being killed. I am keen to keep the pressure on here as far as possible. Your support is very much appreciated. IT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest IT Manager Posted January 29, 2004 Share Posted January 29, 2004 From Todays Bangkok Post.. 29 January, 2004 More to get nationality back Another 30 have passed DNA tests Anjira Assavanonda DNA test results show another 30 residents of Chiang Mai's Mae Ai district should have their citizenship restored, said forensic expert Khunying Pornthip Rojanasunant yesterday. The 30 _ from three families _ are among 1,243 people who lost their citizenship after the district office deleted their names from the household registration record about two years ago. To prove they are Thai nationals, some of the affected people agreed to undergo DNA tests conducted by the Central Institute of Forensic Science. One of the three families already tested is that of Chamras Khamsai, a Mathayom 5 student at Montford school, who has won a scholarship from HRH Princess Maha Chakri Sirindhorn. "The DNA tests showed that members of the three families have genetic links with their Thai ancestors,"Khunying Pornthip said. The test results have been sent to the Interior Ministry's Provincial Administration Department since the middle of this month. It now depends on the department to decide whether the 30 should regain their citizenship. Last year two Mae Ai residents won back their citizenship after the results of their DNA tests came out in their favour. They are Prommin Intavichai and Pongsri Inlu, a schoolteacher who lost her job as a result of the nationality dispute. District chief Adisorn Kamnerdsiri insisted the authority had not ignored the nationality problem but said it might take a little more time to settle it. Since October last year, more than 20 people already had their citizenship restored, while 10 more cases were on the waiting list, he said. The affected people should be more patient since the district also had to handle other urgent tasks which could cause a delay in restoring their citizenship, he said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plachon Posted January 30, 2004 Share Posted January 30, 2004 How repugnant - first revoking these people's citizenship then ordering DNA tests on them. I wouldn't be at all surprised to find out that the ancestors of the Mae Ai residents have lived on Thai soil for considerably longer than those ordering the tests. Not that we'd ever be allowed to learn such things. At the rate, they're conducting the DNA tests, it'll take more than 80 years to test the whole group. But sorry, the govt., are just too busy with other things (like saving CP's skin) at the moment to worry about such minor things as hill tribe's rights to education, healthcare, citizenship, even the right to human rights. Bloody marvellous, eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidm Posted February 1, 2004 Share Posted February 1, 2004 I assume you got all the facts right in the report you published above. That's quite a leap of faith on my part, but you're the local and this is clearly a subject that interests you more than me. Now, seriously, what do you want me to do about it? Go all the way up to some wretched village inNorth Thailand and protest? I can think of quite a few reasons for not doing so, and shall list the most pertinent:- 1. It's a h*ll of a long way to go to protest about the awful treatment of people I know nothing about. Would they do the same for me? Doubt it. Never had any Akha lend me a hand during my trials and tribulations. 2. Who's going to support my family and business while I protest? Or perhaps I should drag the kids away from preparing for end of year exams and have them join the protest? 3. In case it escaped your notice, Asian governments take a pretty dim view of westerners protesting about them from inside those countries. If I respond to the call to arms, I'd probably get locked up. Would you or the Akha stand bail or even visit me in jail? Chances are, I'd be convicted and deported after serving my sentence. Please refer to point # 2 again in the event I am imprsoned then deported. 4. Even assuming I did indulge in the lunacy of a protest, what difference would it make? This country is run by ethnic Chinese who couldn't give a flying french <deleted> about hilltribes or just about anyone else. Nothing you or I do will change this. The jek are here to stay. This may seem like a harsh response to an appeal for help, but that's because the request was not thought out properly, to put it mildly. It was highly irresponsible and I suspect the perpetrator is mentally unbalanced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marquess Posted February 2, 2004 Share Posted February 2, 2004 assume you got all the facts right in the report you published above. That's quite a leap of faith on my part, but you're the local and this is clearly a subject that interests you more than me.Now, seriously, what do you want me to do about it? Go all the way up to some wretched village inNorth Thailand and protest? I can think of quite a few reasons for not doing so, and shall list the most pertinent:- 1. It's a h*ll of a long way to go to protest about the awful treatment of people I know nothing about. Would they do the same for me? Doubt it. Never had any Akha lend me a hand during my trials and tribulations. 2. Who's going to support my family and business while I protest? Or perhaps I should drag the kids away from preparing for end of year exams and have them join the protest? 3. In case it escaped your notice, Asian governments take a pretty dim view of westerners protesting about them from inside those countries. If I respond to the call to arms, I'd probably get locked up. Would you or the Akha stand bail or even visit me in jail? Chances are, I'd be convicted and deported after serving my sentence. Please refer to point # 2 again in the event I am imprsoned then deported. 4. Even assuming I did indulge in the lunacy of a protest, what difference would it make? This country is run by ethnic Chinese who couldn't give a flying french <deleted> about hilltribes or just about anyone else. Nothing you or I do will change this. The jek are here to stay. This may seem like a harsh response to an appeal for help, but that's because the request was not thought out properly, to put it mildly. It was highly irresponsible and I suspect the perpetrator is mentally unbalanced. I doubt very much whether the "perpetrator", is mentally unbalanced. Whilst your views are welcome, the appeal asks those to help, who are willing to do so. No once is being forced into anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest IT Manager Posted February 2, 2004 Share Posted February 2, 2004 Davidm would this be the person who sent me the email initially or myself for posting it, who is mentally unbalanced? The ladies involved were not protesting, they were documenting what is happening there. Whilst I agree, it is not likely to attract your personal atention, considering the profits you sequester by dealing with Burma. You never did go into specifics of your "exporting" activities from Burma, and would be interested to know what they encompass. IT (Personal) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Georgie-Porgie Posted February 2, 2004 Share Posted February 2, 2004 Dear davidm, My advice to you, is be very careful how you answer how you answer this question. A few weeks ago, I, myself, was totally shocked to find that I had been banned from this web-site for 3 1/3 years when I tried to log in. I was brought back after huge protests and a lot of begging, but I wouldn't count on that happening in your situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidm Posted February 2, 2004 Share Posted February 2, 2004 I made a point of not naming anyone in my previous post because I was unsure who was responsible for what I read and did not want to offend the wrong party. The two posts by ###### quite clearly state that westerners are invited to protest on Thai soil against the Thai Government. We need people to assist us in organizing protests tothe Thai government, that Human Rights Observers will not be harassed in this way. This is urgent. We don't need action next week, we need it now... SOLIDARITY PROTEST - CHIANGRAIMASSIVE SHOW OF SUPPORT!!!!! MAYBE ITS ABOUT TIME THE THAI GOVERNMENT FOUND OUT THAT FALANGS COME HERE TO DO MORE THAN PARTY!!!!! If you are not in Thailand COME!If you are in Thailand, COME! Get off the beach, come to the mountain air. WE NEED A MASSIVE SHOW OF SUPPORT FOR THESE WOMEN ANDFOR THE AKHA OF HOOH YOH AKHA VILLAGE!!!!!! Matthew McDaniel My interpretation of these "requests" is that Mr. McDaniel wants to organise a protest along the lines of what we see every time the World Trade Organisation and similar international bodies meet. In other words, a riot. The author may come up with another word for what he plans, but that's my take on the subject. As far as I'm concerned, people who organise riots and confrontational protests are mentally unbalanced. Such an event would have very negative repercussions, not only for the protesters, but for western visitors in general. We could end up with more visa restrictions, or even bans, as a result. It's probable that anyone contemplating joining Mr. McDaniel is unaware of the consequences, especially if they are young and impressionable. If any harm does befall such a protester, ######, you share some of the blame. I am keen to keep the pressure on here as far as possible.This is proof that you are not merely passing on someone else's views.Whilst I agree, it is not likely to attract your personal atention, considering the profits you sequester by dealing with Burma.You never did go into specifics of your "exporting" activities from Burma, and would be interested to know what they encompass. The above is a slur and a veiled threat. Somehow, ######, I doubt you are really interested in buying handicrafts or furniture from me. The threat lies in the fact that drugs are exported from Burma to Thailand, and Thai authorities might be interested to investigate my background and see what my activities in that country amount to. That's not the wisest course of action from a foreigner in Thailand who publicly co-ordinates confrontational protests against the Thai Government, is it? No doubt, I'll be banned and my post deleted. So be it. I managed perfectly well without the forum in the past and shall continue to enjoy life if I'm banned. Thanks for the advice and goodwill Georgie, but I'm not in favour of protests or begging. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest IT Manager Posted February 3, 2004 Share Posted February 3, 2004 So Davidm, no deletion, no banning. A fairly stupid post, but that's fine. In fact I have my own sources of handicrafts, if that is really all you import. I am not suggesting drugs either. I am talking about items, which in their production, cost lives. As to the rest of the post regarding threats. Hardly, son. I just find it interesting to get a picture of the person as well as an idea of the activity. Burma has been slammed in other fora than this for its' human rights records, including by myself. Try this. My son is now 18. Thanks to me. He may well be of the other nationality. I don't know, neither does he. His Uncle, Aunt, 4 year old boy cousin and 2 year old girl cousin were definitely murdered by the other nationality army. Why? They had AIDS. How? By bagging and throwing in the river. Do I have a personal point? Yes. In my humble opinion I do. Do you care? IMHO, no. Do you care about much outside generated income? IMHO again, no. You son, are hoist on your own petard of greed and ignorance, and there, you will remain. So, on your next opportunity to visit Thailand, you feel free to contact me. And don't be wet about threats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plachon Posted February 4, 2004 Share Posted February 4, 2004 IT, thanks for putting across that personal insight so well. Some people, will NEVER, EVER understand that sometimes to not look away, get involved, show a little compassion, give something away for no reward, offer some support to those less fortunate than ourselves, etc., makes us a little bit more "human" and a little less like....................those who do that kind of thing to flesh and blood in Burma. If people who think DavidM's attitude (it's not our country - don't get involved - but carry on trading with these unelected people on the "other side") is the way to go, then that's their perogative, but don't look down on people who are prepared to make a sacrifice on another's behalf. The most likely reason behind David M's posting I believe is that deep down he feels threatened by his own selfishness and aloofness, but this helps to rationalise and justify it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidm Posted February 4, 2004 Share Posted February 4, 2004 Wading through your semi-literate reply, I've deciphered one or two pieces of information. 1. Your family was very badly treated i.e. most of them murdered, most likely by Burmese. Your own intervention saved your son's life. I say most likely as I'm trying to translate "the other nationality". If that's the case, it's a personal tragedy and I don't wish to comment further as even the slightest miscommunication on my part could cause unintended hurt. 2. The threats were perceived because of your writing. I suppose most IT managers are more at home with computer language than ordinary English, but that's no excuse when you choose to write a post. One might even say it's fairly stupid if you don't say what you mean and make it clear to your intended reader. I'm not going to give chapter and verse on what I do for a living to someone via a public forum. In fact, it's highly unlikely I'd do anything of the sort over the internet. There is nothing in your reply concerning the central point of my posts, which is that it's far worse than "fairly stupid" to publicly co-ordinate confrontational protests by foreigners in Thailand against the Thai Government regardless of what that government is doing to its own citizens. This stupidity is also selfish as it could cause repercussions to the whole expat community in Thailand. There is also the very real risk that some young and impressionable visitor to Thailand might get into serious trouble by joining such a protest while not understanding the way things work in Thailand. Plachon should bear this in mind, too. There is nothing compassionate about organising the sort of protest Mr. McDaniel is calling for. Come to think of it, his actions have nothing to do with Burma, either. I might also draw your attention to the rules of conduct for this forum. Do you honestly believe the sponsors and advertisers on this site are pleased to know one of the administrators is acting like this? There are avenues of legitimate protest for foreigners who do not approve of the Thai Government's actions. Mr. McDaniel even listed some of them in his postings. I think it's safe to conclude we both regard the other as stupid and ignorant. As administrator, if you want the last word, that's your prerogative. I'm based in Thailand, but see no reason for further contact. Discussion hasn't helped and I can't see how handbags at ten paces outside the Thapae Gate would improve the situation, either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest IT Manager Posted February 4, 2004 Share Posted February 4, 2004 I actually began a response David, but then thought about it some more. You aren't worth the effort, either as a person, nor as anything else. If I have offended your sense of superiority, please accept my heart-felt apologies, and feel more than free to go post in other topics that don't upset you dear. Bear Pit comes to mind as appropriate to you. As to how I regard you, I think it's extremely unfair to accuse me of thinking about you in any way, when you neither know me, nor in all probability, many others on the forum. I don't regard you as stupid at all. Sad yes, shallow, definitely, ignorant, perhaps, stupid? I have no idea. In the mean time, leave us mere mortals to get on with our lives, without needing either input or support, from you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest IT Manager Posted February 4, 2004 Share Posted February 4, 2004 Dear davidm,My advice to you, is be very careful how you answer how you answer this question. A few weeks ago, I, myself, was totally shocked to find that I had been banned from this web-site for 3 1/3 years when I tried to log in. I was brought back after huge protests and a lot of begging, but I wouldn't count on that happening in your situation. Just a note. G-P was not banned, ever. His account was suspended accidentally, by me. It was corrected the next morning. The problem was his post was directly after the one I was after. I apologised to him, as did the forum owner. We also re-instated the account. He made one e-mail to the owner, who contacted me. There was no begging and there were no tears. I made a simple error. The total time he was unable to post, was less than 10 hours. Also, in complying with 3 PM's from him, I carefully watched one thread to ensure his real name was not divulged in forum, as per his request. I have no idea why that was such a big deal, but it seemed to be to him. Should there be any doubt as to my veracity, I will be more than happy to post those PM's and the e-mail here for others to verify my facts. To now read this seems at least a bit unfair, and in fact seems to me to be deserving of an apology to myself at least and to the membership, for misleading them so grossly in an effort to garner some sort of vote of "poor me". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrentoul Posted February 4, 2004 Share Posted February 4, 2004 I don't want to spend too much tiime on this post because I suspect it will be axed by tomorrow. It has become way too personal and nasty. It looks similar to a ''personal note'' which IT started last night and which was also gone by this morning. Personally, and no matter how strongly I felt about hilltribe people and the shabby way this government treats them, I would not let any lobby group, human rights body or whatever hijack a public forum in the way Matthew McDaniel did, even if he was issuing a genuine call for help. I can understand why he wants a big protest. But the administrators on this board have other things to consider. Human rights observers get arrested; it's part of the job. It's not nice to have it happen on your doorstep, but we don't own the place. We're just guests. What is more, I am sure the arrested pair will get over the experience. Their sense of moral outrage may take longer to abate. No information is given on why the pair were arrested, and I am sure the police have a view. That's the nature of one-sided information; it's incomplete. Sometimes I think the Internet is way too fast for its own good. Pressure groups, NGOs and the like know where to go to be heard. They know IT is sympathetic so they contact him. Feeling as strongly as he does, he publishes their plea for help. I agree with davidm that it does not seem well thought out. Assuming people drop their lives and head off to the hills in Chiang Rai, what next? Set up camp? Which remote police outpost are you going to stake out? Won't it all look a bit silly and embarrassing? What if they are released in the next five minutes? IT's story (follow the link on the bottom of his posts) is moving. I assume it is his; when I read it tonight I could not be sure. If it is his, I can understand why he feels strongly about the way the government treats hilltribe people. However, not everyone has to agree. Being on the side of ''compassion'' doesn't make you right. For instance, I happen to think that trading with Burma is a good thing. The compassionate Leftie would refuse to have anything to do with that regime: morally repugnant, and so on. He would probably support sanctions, consumer boycotts, and all the rest. In my view isolating a problem doesn't help it. Better to drag it into the mainstream. In the end, all tinpot outfits want the same things, not the least of which are cash (from trade) and respect. If that human rights observer guy had contacted me I would run his story, but I would also speak to the police. Then I'd make my own judgement as a journalist how to present it. Everyone wants a say, it seeems - even ratbag journalists. Life isn't easy, is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Georgie-Porgie Posted February 5, 2004 Share Posted February 5, 2004 Dear davidm,My advice to you, is be very careful how you answer how you answer this question. A few weeks ago, I, myself, was totally shocked to find that I had been banned from this web-site for 3 1/3 years when I tried to log in. I was brought back after huge protests and a lot of begging, but I wouldn't count on that happening in your situation. Just a note. G-P was not banned, ever. His account was suspended accidentally, by me. It was corrected the next morning. The problem was his post was directly after the one I was after. I apologised to him, as did the forum owner. We also re-instated the account. He made one e-mail to the owner, who contacted me. There was no begging and there were no tears. I made a simple error. The total time he was unable to post, was less than 10 hours. Also, in complying with 3 PM's from him, I carefully watched one thread to ensure his real name was not divulged in forum, as per his request. I have no idea why that was such a big deal, but it seemed to be to him. Should there be any doubt as to my veracity, I will be more than happy to post those PM's and the e-mail here for others to verify my facts. To now read this seems at least a bit unfair, and in fact seems to me to be deserving of an apology to myself at least and to the membership, for misleading them so grossly in an effort to garner some sort of vote of "poor me". I was joking when I warned DavidM about being suspended, and IT Managers account of what happened with my suspension and afterwards is entirely accurate. I was not, however, trying to say anything about "poor me". I saw that DavidM had called ###### something like "mentally unbalanced" and just wanted to chide him a little about watching his tongue (although I agreed with his statement about the protest entirely). My opinion is that normally ###### does an amazing job on here. I also think that he slipped on both the protest issue and his message to me about "the worth of my life", but, as far as I'm concerned, no biggy, we all make mistakes. I did read the thread about the novice who was killed later, and understood that ######'s message wasn't meant as harshly as I took it without knowing what he was referring to, however, I must say that I still find it totally bizarre that he would make a statement about the worth of a member's life in his role as administrator. I have no problem at all apologizing to ######, the whole forum and DavidM if my joshing statement is what caused the whole problem, however, from what I can see, that joke was not really the problem, the problem was IT Managers initial advice about Farangs all running up North and protesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest IT Manager Posted February 5, 2004 Share Posted February 5, 2004 Thanks George, in fact, reading my post states that I was passing on something to members, many of whom have indicated a view on the problem forced upon the Akha and other tourist attractions. Remember the Paduang, sold by one business chappie to another in Phuket? How many of us haven't seen the red, black and silver of the Akha "costumes", which they wear every day of their adult lives in the village, when they are in The Night Bazaar selling trinkets of silver and aluminum. DavidM don't take me so seriously, BTW, or yourself. You are smarter than that. The fact that we live at different colours on the political spectrum doesn't mean we can't get on. I do get off half cocked on occasion, about the Akha and the Hilltribes believe me. Even George and I get on well, and he is somewhat well to the right of Genghis Khan politically speaking. Mr McDaniel would love to hear from you Mike, By the way. He will also give you the names and addresses of the protagonists for your research. Send me your address and I will forward a copy of his book to you, for reference. IT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrentoul Posted February 5, 2004 Share Posted February 5, 2004 Mr McDaniel would love to hear from you Mike, By the way. He will also give you the names and addresses of the protagonists for your research. Send me your address and I will forward a copy of his book to you, for reference. Your sarcasm is lost on me, David. The fact remains that as an administrator you have to consider things other than whether to give this or that lobby group or watchdog a mouthpiece. They have different objectives...as do you. You evidently don't get it: the Akha thing is too close too your heart. I suggest if you can't keep your role as an administrator separate from your feelings about the ''cause'' , then one or the other should go. As a journalist, if there's one thing I can't abide it is a writer who allows herself to be used as a platform for other people's agendas...even if they are worthy. It's immaterial whether I agree with the cause or not. Media outlets get pleas for help from the likes of Mr McDaniel all the time. The reporter makes a quick call, and more often than not there's more to the issue than the aggrieved party was willing to let on. The point is, a writer is supposed to be aloof, and handle material - no matter how inflammatory - in an impartial and even-handed manner. That way, you can have your say when you have something to get off your chest, and the other side can have their say as well. If you don't like it, then go out and buy a printing press. We're not here to please you, hard as that may seem. As an administrator you should also think twice about levelling personal abuse at people. It's all very well apologising after the event. If it's personal, keep it personal: send it by PM! Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest IT Manager Posted February 5, 2004 Share Posted February 5, 2004 Whilst I realise it may have slipped the attention of some members, I rarely, and the other admins less so, delete postings, close threads, or delete topics which go against our personal views. I would request ALL members to please refrain from suggesting, implying or stating up-front, that just because an admin doesn't like the content of a thread, it is likely to be deleted, unless it goes against the terms of service. This applies to all members, irregardless of their faith, politics or orientation. We actually take the job of admin quite seriously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lamphun Posted February 5, 2004 Share Posted February 5, 2004 ###### Are you sure you're an Administrator, some mishtake surely. While I find some of davidm's comments insulting and obnoxious, he does have a point. Inciting foreigners to protest against the Thai police in Thailand is pretty dumb. Do it at the Thai embassy in your own country. The situation at Doi Ankhang has been going on for over ten years and shouldn't be confused with the mess in Burma which merits a seperate discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest IT Manager Posted February 5, 2004 Share Posted February 5, 2004 Lamphun there is an AA meeting near you that can help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidm Posted February 5, 2004 Share Posted February 5, 2004 First off, this is not an attempt at having the last word. My apologies George, if I caused any offence, but my computer was about to be shut down by a worm virus and I had less than 60 seconds in which to finish my post. ######, I assume this thread is over and we can go our separate ways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest IT Manager Posted February 5, 2004 Share Posted February 5, 2004 You could meet me for coffee one morning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lamphun Posted February 5, 2004 Share Posted February 5, 2004 IT Just like my wife, must have the last word !! Maybe you should read the posting, no personal insult was intended or given. I was puzzled by your reaction to davidm's comments. Your "reply" is nonsense. Perhaps it's time you passed the torch to someone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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