Commune Near Chiang Mai

[ihunnieibee]

hmmm

Does this sound like a cult to anyone else?? or am I the only one who thinks so? o.0

[Bung]

Will everyone be walking aroun naked?

[hml367]

hmmm

Does this sound like a cult to anyone else?? or am I the only one who thinks so? o.0

[binjalin]

hmmm

Does this sound like a cult to anyone else?? or am I the only one who thinks so? o.0

Hopefully your the only one - living together is a lifestyle choice - doesn't make it the next 'Jim Jones' gig. This hadn't even crossed my mind/

[Grafted]

I'm surprised - read disturbed - by how wildly off topic a discussion can roam.

C'mon, what kinda thoughts would you have .. if you could have thoughts ... about what a commune near Chiang Mai might look like. I've had 3 or 4 PMs wishing to explore the proposition in more detail - thanks guys - I think we have a quorum, but so far there has been minimal real input.

Let's talk motivations because actions always stem from motivations. I'll kick off with a a few of mine.

1. I want a more active lifestyle .. why ... cause its better for my outlook on life, my fitness and hence my health, and I usually sleep better

2. I am scared to do something like this myself. Does that sound like raw honesty? I fear I would not have the motivation to tackle such challenges alone.

3. I want one last roll of the dice. Yes, I want to prove I'm still alive and can achieve something.

4.

5.

There are a few more, but its not about me .... I write this to get others considering what a Commune (group) might consider together. So ... what might be your motivations?

[Grafted]

Ah... well brought up MESmith .... as in vomited!

Nah we've already contracted The Pheasant Plucker Sisters to provide a roaming show all over your face .. oops .. I mean the place.

However knowing you are a Crass fan I'm sure you'd like to keep your hand in and follow the punk rockers slogan of "Do it Yourself"

Smiled knowingly

As near as I can figure you have about 20 acres. How much of it are you allowing for growing food and how many people do you expect to have room for. What is the water supply like there and the power source is there a power line in to the area. Personally I am not that interested in living that particular way of life but I am interested in seeing how it would turn out. I like your description of normal. It indeed covers a wide range of people.

As I said on another post normal is a setting on the washing machine.

Just to amuse uptheos (easily done) will there be a songtell and a place to buy a meal that costs over 35 baht. Also they should not have pesticides in them. He likes bugs crawling all over his food.

As I said to a good natured PM, the land is less important than the WILL. Do we old dudes have what it takes to give life a go one more time. That said this bit of land is NOT STUNNING. its ok. There's a mix of flat and rising land with forest to the rear. A water channel runs by one boundary and its not a flood zone, Electricity is available, but now its a blank canvas - farm land that has been unused for quite a while. Its in a very quiet area about 25km to Lampang, and 50 mins (dunno kms) to Chiang Mai up the superhighway. My partner's people live in the area so I know we have the support of the local village dudes and know there are decent folk who are happy to work and have the skills needed.

I have no answers to specific questions except to say that I'm 57 - am not out to change the world and just want to live peaceably and prefer to share with others. Not share to avoid costs really, share to gain the enjoyment that comes from doing stuff together.

I envisage a bit of the permaculture thingy, nothing too scripted. Recently we've bought 80 fruit trees for another property - its Heinz variety here - there are so many and varied goodies that hang off trees, that appeals. Mixed in with veges of many denominations, and the common edible small animals that if organised can work to benefit other systems. Maybe dig a hole for fish, Its only 15 acres and I don't really care if that feeds us or not - its the DOING that is more important. Dolly you know that food is the LEAST cost item on the budget in the country areas so producing food is just an activity rather than an end in itself.

How many people? Not less than 2 - I think that the diversity of more is a good thing up to a point. Where that point is I don't know. Counting a bloke and his lady or a single person as 1 entity, maybe a max of ..... WHAT DO OTHERS THINK???

I am not a fan of the big concrete house and I don't want to replicate a town development with roads and fences, this is not that kind of thing. Smaller, simpler, shared are words that appeal. That said I WANT good stuff to enjoy together ... a great pool ..( check out these ALTERNATIVE style pools http://www.naturalswimmingpools.com/ ) some very comfy chairs and well stocked bar, Hopefully there will be some ladies who can wow us with their cooking and occasionally let us into what should be a cooks kitchen.

Lampang is a decent city offering most amenities and still quite easy to get around, there's a good community of farang here, a couple of golf courses ... a mini bus might be worthwhile if we have a bit of a crowd - lots of choices

[WinnieTheKhwai]

If people would put time, effort and money into building something, for example a small place to live in, would you envision that they will have some sort of living rights or usage rights of that particular area, i.e. would you see both communal areas and private areas? Not sure how that would work from a legal/contractual perspective; perhaps through dividing up the land and then leasing out plots. (Or even selling some of the private plots outright if people want that).

On the topic of the semantics of 'commune', which some people do perceive as a cult, as per the post further above: When land is divided up into personal and public areas, that is actually very close in concept and legal framework to a commercial development / gated community. To indicate the difference, you could at the same time refer to a commercial development as well as distance yourself from one by calling it for example a non-commercial development, non-profit development, co-op community or non-gated community. (Open Community, etc.) Something along those lines would express the concept, without people associating it with a weird cult.

There could be (relatively few) plots of personal land, as well as much bigger plots of 'free land'. (free as in freedom, not free as in beer.)

As I've indicated earlier, it's important to find an established structure to fit in; as laissez-faire as the Thai government can be, it is always much better to fit an established and accepted model, at least on the surface. Because sooner or later there will be some <deleted> appointed as village head man of whatever village the land falls under, and at that point you want your venture to be iron-clad in a legal sense. Thailand is not a country with few rules, it is a country with very selective enforcement of rules. There are for example rules as to how to operate a farm, keep animals, use water, build structures with approved building plans and what not. And you can get away with ignoring any of them, right up to the moment you run into a government officail or influential local getting jealous of what you're doing.

Edited July 11, 2012 by WinnieTheKhwai

[hellodolly]

Ah... well brought up MESmith .... as in vomited!

Nah we've already contracted The Pheasant Plucker Sisters to provide a roaming show all over your face .. oops .. I mean the place.

However knowing you are a Crass fan I'm sure you'd like to keep your hand in and follow the punk rockers slogan of "Do it Yourself"

Smiled knowingly

As near as I can figure you have about 20 acres. How much of it are you allowing for growing food and how many people do you expect to have room for. What is the water supply like there and the power source is there a power line in to the area. Personally I am not that interested in living that particular way of life but I am interested in seeing how it would turn out. I like your description of normal. It indeed covers a wide range of people.

As I said on another post normal is a setting on the washing machine.

Just to amuse uptheos (easily done) will there be a songtell and a place to buy a meal that costs over 35 baht. Also they should not have pesticides in them. He likes bugs crawling all over his food.

As I said to a good natured PM, the land is less important than the WILL. Do we old dudes have what it takes to give life a go one more time. That said this bit of land is NOT STUNNING. its ok. There's a mix of flat and rising land with forest to the rear. A water channel runs by one boundary and its not a flood zone, Electricity is available, but now its a blank canvas - farm land that has been unused for quite a while. Its in a very quiet area about 25km to Lampang, and 50 mins (dunno kms) to Chiang Mai up the superhighway. My partner's people live in the area so I know we have the support of the local village dudes and know there are decent folk who are happy to work and have the skills needed.

I have no answers to specific questions except to say that I'm 57 - am not out to change the world and just want to live peaceably and prefer to share with others. Not share to avoid costs really, share to gain the enjoyment that comes from doing stuff together.

I envisage a bit of the permaculture thingy, nothing too scripted. Recently we've bought 80 fruit trees for another property - its Heinz variety here - there are so many and varied goodies that hang off trees, that appeals. Mixed in with veges of many denominations, and the common edible small animals that if organised can work to benefit other systems. Maybe dig a hole for fish, Its only 15 acres and I don't really care if that feeds us or not - its the DOING that is more important. Dolly you know that food is the LEAST cost item on the budget in the country areas so producing food is just an activity rather than an end in itself.

How many people? Not less than 2 - I think that the diversity of more is a good thing up to a point. Where that point is I don't know. Counting a bloke and his lady or a single person as 1 entity, maybe a max of ..... WHAT DO OTHERS THINK???

I am not a fan of the big concrete house and I don't want to replicate a town development with roads and fences, this is not that kind of thing. Smaller, simpler, shared are words that appeal. That said I WANT good stuff to enjoy together ... a great pool ..( check out these ALTERNATIVE style pools http://www.naturalswimmingpools.com/ ) some very comfy chairs and well stocked bar, Hopefully there will be some ladies who can wow us with their cooking and occasionally let us into what should be a cooks kitchen.

Lampang is a decent city offering most amenities and still quite easy to get around, there's a good community of farang here, a couple of golf courses ... a mini bus might be worthwhile if we have a bit of a crowd - lots of choices

A couple of things.

When I asked about the water a friend of mine had told me doing the dry season a lot of the outlying areas are restrictive on the water supply.

Im am relatively sure it is not for me but when I read your text and the one following it by WTK I get more intrigued with the idea.

And last and most assuredly not the least Watch it with the old dudes stuff. You are a youngster. If 57 is a old dude what am I at 70 an artifact.

Edited July 11, 2012 by hellodolly

[OriginalPoster]

Can't vouch for the pesticides but if the things that I eat and drink aren't bad for you then the whole organic thing is a fraud.

Not so much 'fraud,' as 'mis-information.' Many crops grown using 'all natural' fertilizers rather than chemical fertilizers often retain MORE nitrates and nitrites than crops grown with chemicals...

As I've said in another thread, 'all natural' isn't necessarily better for you... It's time to ask more questions.

Been there, done that, and don't care to do it again. Question ANYTHING about organic farming and you risk being called a Monsanto stooge and a pawn of the military industrial complex. One thing's for sure though, the organic farming industry isn't basing it's claims upon data.

Edited July 11, 2012 by OriginalPoster

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Organic farming is off topic. Farming yourself, using any method you choose, is.

Also, building livings spaces that look like this, is.

Edited July 11, 2012 by WinnieTheKhwai

[OriginalPoster]

Organic farming is off topic. Farming yourself, using any method you choose, is.

Also, building livings spaces that look like this, is.

Thank you for that warning Mr. Moderator Wannabe.

[Grafted]

Re WTK pic. Thats the kind of input thats valuable. Beautiful, practical. And inspiationAl

if you have any further details ora website please letus know.

Also . . . . Back to motivations . . My main 2 motivations alre

some purposeful activity

enjoy shared leisure

Abzolutly zilch about organic farming or .any other hobby horse. Plenty of room for your contributions

[sheba]

Just to amuse uptheos (easily done) will there be a songtell and a place to buy a meal that costs over 35 baht. Also they should not have pesticides in them. He likes bugs crawling all over his food.

Well, since you want to amuse me, I'll let you into a little secret. Because I don't live crammed into a stuffy room with another person, I am able to buy the food I like, wash any chemicals off properly and cook it with the best ingredients, in my own kitchen in my own house. I don't need to get a songtel or tuk tuk three times a day in order to buy a meal.

Don't complain to me about your lonely life. And the need to be cheap. I don't have to be cheap nor do I have to go far to get food any where from Western to Thai .Indian and Italian oops almost forgot the Japanese. These are ones with in walking distance. But I don't care for it any how. What makes you think I have a stuffy room?

Please try to stay on topic and not be a <deleted>.

[PoodMaiDai]

As ridiculous as Thailand is when it comes to foreigners doing anything, I would check into the legalities of it unless there is a Thai at the head of all of this. Considering they don't want foreigners to play music or volunteer without a work permit, there is no telling what crazy charges they could dream up to try to put an end to a group of foreigners doing something that doesn't involve them or doesn't allow them to profit from you. Random immigration raids to check for visa over stays, drug plants by police, there is just no telling. Their xenophobia knows no bounds.

But the idea is a good one. The best you can probably do is find the right people and keep it as quiet as possible. I know Pun Pun is strict on who they let stay there. You don't want freeloaders (or people hiding from the law) hanging about and not pulling their weight, then try to cause problems once you kick them out. I think a lot is to consider when choosing the right people for such a place.

[PoodMaiDai]

Organic farming is off topic. Farming yourself, using any method you choose, is.

Also, building livings spaces that look like this, is.

Man, you are full of nice building photos. While I personally would not choose such a place to live, I appreciate it and know that for someone, that is a very cozy place.

[metisdead]

Off topic bickering posts have been removed.

[hellodolly]

As ridiculous as Thailand is when it comes to foreigners doing anything, I would check into the legalities of it unless there is a Thai at the head of all of this. Considering they don't want foreigners to play music or volunteer without a work permit, there is no telling what crazy charges they could dream up to try to put an end to a group of foreigners doing something that doesn't involve them or doesn't allow them to profit from you. Random immigration raids to check for visa over stays, drug plants by police, there is just no telling. Their xenophobia knows no bounds.

But the idea is a good one. The best you can probably do is find the right people and keep it as quiet as possible. I know Pun Pun is strict on who they let stay there. You don't want freeloaders (or people hiding from the law) hanging about and not pulling their weight, then try to cause problems once you kick them out. I think a lot is to consider when choosing the right people for such a place.

Well I can under stand where you are coming from but I would question what do you have to do to pull your weight. For my self I am 70 and have a physical handicap so am limited by that to what I can do physically. Of course would not have to ask for support as I can afford to live there depending on the cost of the residency. I really don't think I could be as extravagant as WTKs picture of his summer home but I am physically able to do the upkeep on any home I owned. That is provided it would be a place where you own your own home.

In a way when I read your post I think of the commune's from the 60s. And the OP referring to 57 as being old kind of falls into that line of thinking. That is my out look on your post coupled with the age thing of the OP.

Not saying it is any one else's.

[binjalin]

If people would put time, effort and money into building something, for example a small place to live in, would you envision that they will have some sort of living rights or usage rights of that particular area, i.e. would you see both communal areas and private areas? Not sure how that would work from a legal/contractual perspective; perhaps through dividing up the land and then leasing out plots. (Or even selling some of the private plots outright if people want that).

On the topic of the semantics of 'commune', which some people do perceive as a cult, as per the post further above: When land is divided up into personal and public areas, that is actually very close in concept and legal framework to a commercial development / gated community. To indicate the difference, you could at the same time refer to a commercial development as well as distance yourself from one by calling it for example a non-commercial development, non-profit development, co-op community or non-gated community. (Open Community, etc.) Something along those lines would express the concept, without people associating it with a weird cult.

There could be (relatively few) plots of personal land, as well as much bigger plots of 'free land'. (free as in freedom, not free as in beer.)

As I've indicated earlier, it's important to find an established structure to fit in; as laissez-faire as the Thai government can be, it is always much better to fit an established and accepted model, at least on the surface. Because sooner or later there will be some <deleted> appointed as village head man of whatever village the land falls under, and at that point you want your venture to be iron-clad in a legal sense. Thailand is not a country with few rules, it is a country with very selective enforcement of rules. There are for example rules as to how to operate a farm, keep animals, use water, build structures with approved building plans and what not. And you can get away with ignoring any of them, right up to the moment you run into a government officail or influential local getting jealous of what you're doing.

I still can't get my head around why anyone would equate humans living together with a cult?

people living together = cult? hmmm

and what is a cult anyway? Quakers? (they live together), Mormons? (next President of the US a cult member?), Monks in a Wat? it's an absurd conclusion born of complete ignorance and stupidity - who says you have to live this way or that? live and let live

[TantraMantra]

Re WTK pic. Thats the kind of input thats valuable. Beautiful, practical. And inspiationAl

if you have any further details ora website please letus know.

Also . . . . Back to motivations . . My main 2 motivations alre

some purposeful activity

enjoy shared leisure

Abzolutly zilch about organic farming or .any other hobby horse. Plenty of room for your contributions

Winnie might make a good new Messiah for a start up cult commune...He..not she..is a fountain of brilliant ideas and good guidance.

Just jesting..but seriously. It sounds really good what you want to do. I'll keep an eye on this post...all the very best to you.

You wouldn't want me as any more than an occasional visitor but it's true about Winnie..and Dolly too...Proper cult Gurus and Semper as well....and Uptheos and ThaiMaiDai ....I don't usually leave home without checking their daily words of Wisdom on TV. Even if you can't get them to shave their heads and become resident zen masters, you'd do well to invite them over for a nice cup of chai.

Edited July 12, 2012 by TantraMantra

[hellodolly]

If people would put time, effort and money into building something, for example a small place to live in, would you envision that they will have some sort of living rights or usage rights of that particular area, i.e. would you see both communal areas and private areas? Not sure how that would work from a legal/contractual perspective; perhaps through dividing up the land and then leasing out plots. (Or even selling some of the private plots outright if people want that).

On the topic of the semantics of 'commune', which some people do perceive as a cult, as per the post further above: When land is divided up into personal and public areas, that is actually very close in concept and legal framework to a commercial development / gated community. To indicate the difference, you could at the same time refer to a commercial development as well as distance yourself from one by calling it for example a non-commercial development, non-profit development, co-op community or non-gated community. (Open Community, etc.) Something along those lines would express the concept, without people associating it with a weird cult.

There could be (relatively few) plots of personal land, as well as much bigger plots of 'free land'. (free as in freedom, not free as in beer.)

As I've indicated earlier, it's important to find an established structure to fit in; as laissez-faire as the Thai government can be, it is always much better to fit an established and accepted model, at least on the surface. Because sooner or later there will be some <deleted> appointed as village head man of whatever village the land falls under, and at that point you want your venture to be iron-clad in a legal sense. Thailand is not a country with few rules, it is a country with very selective enforcement of rules. There are for example rules as to how to operate a farm, keep animals, use water, build structures with approved building plans and what not. And you can get away with ignoring any of them, right up to the moment you run into a government officail or influential local getting jealous of what you're doing.

I still can't get my head around why anyone would equate humans living together with a cult?

people living together = cult? hmmm

and what is a cult anyway? Quakers? (they live together), Mormons? (next President of the US a cult member?), Monks in a Wat? it's an absurd conclusion born of complete ignorance and stupidity - who says you have to live this way or that? live and let live

Maybe you are younger and don't remember the Jim Jones cult or the one where they were all going to go some where when a comet came by and they committed suicide under the guidance of a cult leader. Or in the 60s some of them where they would try to live by their selves with a free lifestyle subject to a leader's guidance (Jim Jones)

You say live and let live I agree to a point. I for one am a person who would have died many years ago if my mother and my aunt had not interfered. But you make it sound like it is not wrong to live like Charles Manson another cult.

From what I have gathered here it is still wide open to what it will be like. With the exception of a few things said here I see no cult. Just a life style that I can not see myself in but the concept with it's possibilities fascinates me.

I have to admit I would need help washing windows in a home such as WTK pictured.

Possibly a community in the mountains of British Columbia I had occasion to visit. The people all lived in their own home and helped each other. It was a community in a remote area and there life style was different. One of my room mates had a ex and his wife living there. I can remember taking her and her son there to return the boy after one of his visit's.

The closest you could get in any type of vehicle was 100 feet. They had hoses running down the mountain from a water source up hill the bath tub was outside as was the toilet with just a roof over it. You entered into the house and it was all very nicely furnished considering the circumstances and had many books many of them classics. They also had solar panels They were both collage educated owned a orchard and a tree planting business that worked all around the province. While I was there I can remember a couple of late teens early twenties coming up the trail with axe's to help chop fire wood. It was a remote area and most of the residences were draft dodgers from the Viet Nam era that had run away to Canada or there descendents some third generation.

The big draw back was the remoteness. and the fact that many of them survived on growing pot. They were definitely not a cult. Just a group of people living a free interconnected life style. They even had a community center.

Edited July 12, 2012 by hellodolly

[daoyai]

Hello, Dolly, I think you are on to something here, If they declare themselves to be a religious cult, then that will help with Immmigration and work permit issues. it's been done already. Brilliant.

[hellodolly]

Hello, Dolly, I think you are on to something here, If they declare themselves to be a religious cult, then that will help with Immmigration and work permit issues. it's been done already. Brilliant.

Not exactly what I had in mind just a answer t some one who didn't know what a cult was.

But you could be on to some thing here set up as a society. That was pretty much what I had experienced in British Columbia. All free to go there own way but choosing to live in and be a part of a society that was off by itself.

For my self I am still wondering about the housing. Limits on it to prevent the pretentious type people. How much does it cost are you part owner of the whole area. Or do you lease a piece of the land. Perhaps buy a piece. If you die what happens to the residence would it become a part of the society or could you leave t to soe one. Endless possibilities.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Re WTK pic. Thats the kind of input thats valuable. Beautiful, practical. And inspiational

if you have any further details ora website please letus know.

It's from a construction forum. The topic is here: <link removed> It has a lot of stuff on how to build with bamboo too.

Edited July 12, 2012 by onthedarkside
link to another forum removed as per forum rules

[Grafted]

Thanks WTK I think that url is the sort of stuff that fires the imagination.

I will share my 70,000 baht personal space construction recipe soon and also suggest a number of different "ownership" scenarios and ask for personal preferences of the options ... like a popularity contest. I would be really grateful if someone else did this, I'd like to see others ideas before I pollute the air with mine!

[WinnieTheKhwai]

I'm intrigued with the 70,000 baht.

I'd say that's not possible, not even for the basic structure. (Never mind putting in things like a water system, cess pit, a bathroom, cooking area, electricity and so on.)

I spent very close to 70,000 baht just on a kitchen and some bathroom improvements recently, and I considered that a tight budget..

[vacationman]

I'm looking forward to seeing your 70,000 baht personal space constuction plan... very interesting... size, space, construction materials, lighting, windows....

[PoodMaiDai]

As ridiculous as Thailand is when it comes to foreigners doing anything, I would check into the legalities of it unless there is a Thai at the head of all of this. Considering they don't want foreigners to play music or volunteer without a work permit, there is no telling what crazy charges they could dream up to try to put an end to a group of foreigners doing something that doesn't involve them or doesn't allow them to profit from you. Random immigration raids to check for visa over stays, drug plants by police, there is just no telling. Their xenophobia knows no bounds.

But the idea is a good one. The best you can probably do is find the right people and keep it as quiet as possible. I know Pun Pun is strict on who they let stay there. You don't want freeloaders (or people hiding from the law) hanging about and not pulling their weight, then try to cause problems once you kick them out. I think a lot is to consider when choosing the right people for such a place.

Well I can under stand where you are coming from but I would question what do you have to do to pull your weight. For my self I am 70 and have a physical handicap so am limited by that to what I can do physically. Of course would not have to ask for support as I can afford to live there depending on the cost of the residency. I really don't think I could be as extravagant as WTKs picture of his summer home but I am physically able to do the upkeep on any home I owned. That is provided it would be a place where you own your own home.

In a way when I read your post I think of the commune's from the 60s. And the OP referring to 57 as being old kind of falls into that line of thinking. That is my out look on your post coupled with the age thing of the OP.

Not saying it is any one else's.

I would think being an active contributor in any manner would be good.

For example, you're 70 years old. You clearly can not be doing physical labor, but can you can vegetables? Can you repair electronics? Do you know how to store seeds? Can you cook? I'm sure there are lots of things that need to be done that do not require physical labor. Trade something you can do for something you can't.

[PoodMaiDai]

Thanks WTK I think that url is the sort of stuff that fires the imagination.

I will share my 70,000 baht personal space construction recipe soon and also suggest a number of different "ownership" scenarios and ask for personal preferences of the options ... like a popularity contest. I would be really grateful if someone else did this, I'd like to see others ideas before I pollute the air with mine!

Have you seen Earth Bag construction? Google it if you have not. Can be done very cheap. It's much like how they make adobe bricks, but they put them in bags, often using barb wire attaching the bags to make them more difficult to move, then covering with chicken wire, then cover with adobe.

[binjalin]

Hello, Dolly, I think you are on to something here, If they declare themselves to be a religious cult, then that will help with Immmigration and work permit issues. it's been done already. Brilliant.

oh that's cool - I had not thought of that but no stockpiling of weapons please... oh and no home made 'special' soups'...

... oh one last thing - the passing 'shooting star' is NOT a space ship sent to pick you up ok???

[PoodMaiDai]

Re WTK pic. Thats the kind of input thats valuable. Beautiful, practical. And inspiational

if you have any further details ora website please letus know.

It's from a construction forum. The topic is here: <link removed> It has a lot of stuff on how to build with bamboo too.

doesn't bamboo have issues with termites?