Immigration At Riverside Owners Meeting Threatened To Jail Any Forang Owners Who Rent Out

[cmexpat999]

I guess renting out a condo or house is doing business and liable to income tax..

It would be in most countries.

Are the minutes of the meeting posted anywhere?

At first: by Thai law, every rental contract should be registered and rental amount is subject to Withholding tax 3% to be paid by the owner.

Secondly: the income from rental should be filed just like all your other income and is subject to income tax at the end of year (amount depending on total of your income)

Theoretically,.... You cannot file for income taxes as foreigner without WP... So strictly there's some truth in this,... But then again, which Thai that rent out houses/condo's registers the contracts ? Let alone pays the W/H tax and reports the income????

I think this is some One-Man-Action from a government official who needs to line his pockets urgently.

Could yet lead to a dangerous presedent ...

first ive heard you need to register tenancy agreements with land office and in last 3-4 years ive talked to a lot of brokers here and none have told me this. But then TIT and who keeps to the law here so it might be true. I cant see all those places renting by month who all seem to have rental agreements registering and if they did the land office would be swamped. Ive heard that if you lease land for 30 years then it must be registered with land office and tax payable but never for a simple 1 year tenancy agreement so I think their must be some confusion.

[hellodolly]

Nothing new here. If you do some business, be prepared to show a WP.

its completely new lots of forang rent out their condos and none I know have a WP or pay tax. Leaving aside the tax issue the real question is can immigration claim just renting out your condo is working. I have 2 units one i live in one I rent out. An agent found the tenant and I paid the agents commission but after that if theirs any problems I pay someone to fix them. What guy from immigration department seemed to be saying is that is considered working and he also said they had put forang in jail for doing it. I doubt if any forang have ever been put in jail or im sure I would have heard about it. Their is some dispute between some owners and juristic manager so it could well be a warning arranged by JM to be careful or things could get nasty.

Just out of curiosity what brought the subject up. Is some one trying to stir trouble up. Obviously who ever was there from immigration had fore knowledge of your meeting and probably knowledge of some one doing this.

I don't know about a work permit but if they own one or more and are renting them out would there not be some laws about investing. Because that is what they are doing. They might not be making money but it would still be a investment. I am a expert on the subject I have invested a lot of money and lost a lot of it.

Unasked for advice but here it is any way. Do not buy high and sell low.

[uptheos]

the meeting was yesterday but I understand when the minutes are produced they will be posted in Riverside lobby for all to see. Im not sure if the immigration thing was part of official EGM or just a separate show. UP to you or others if you want to believe it. I was there and so were a lot of other forangs so it would be useful for doubters here if any of other forang confirmed assuming they have a logon ID. I only just registered purely because it was a shock to me and others at the meeting.

If the immigration thing is NOT in the minutes I'd want to know why as it appears to be the most significant part of the meeting. It should say why immigration was there, who invited them or did they invite themselves and it should be detailed what was actually said. Something as important as this just can't be left out.

[hellodolly]

Until I see official signed minutes of the meeting, I would just put it down as scaremongering.

What if you had been sitting in the meeting.

Edited July 23, 2012 by hellodolly

[hellodolly]

Until I see official signed minutes of the meeting, I would just put it down as scaremongering.

since their were quite a few forang owners at the meeting im sure someone will confirm the facts ive reported. It seems likely the manager invited someone from immigration but I dont know. IMO it will come to nothing but I can assure you it was as ive reported. I normally avoid TV since it is usually full of nonsense and made up BS but since this could affect me I thought someone might have some useful knowledge on this subject or similar experiance. It is certainly in 4 years here the first ive ever heard or experienced this. I know many other owners and no one has ever mentioned this type of problem before. It was definitely a shock to most forang at the meeting.

You say

"I normally avoid TV since it is usually full of nonsense and made up BS

So you rush to sign up for TV and post on it

[uptheos]

Until I see official signed minutes of the meeting, I would just put it down as scaremongering.

What if you had been sitting in the meeting.

What if my aunt had balls, she'd be my uncle.

I'm not doubting the OP's word, but when it comes to serious stuff like this, that involves government officials at residents meeting, I want to see documented evidence of what was said........and want names, ranks etc etc.AND as I've said before the reason for being at a private meeting??

[cmexpat999]

im not sure but I think it was the manager who invited immigration and their seems to be issues between some forang and the manager and between the manager and the old committee who it seems all resigned. Even before I bought in the building their seemed to be a lot of infighting between different groups of forang. Its never really affected me but seems to be a constant power struggle. In my limited time their have been 3 different managers appointed and the committee before the last one also all resigned due it seems to actions from the manager.

Its a bit of a mess but ive just ignored it and the building is well kept and well managed. The building has a very large bank account of around 17 million so maybe some people have a motive but im guessing.

[uptheos]

im not sure but I think it was the manager who invited immigration and their seems to be issues between some forang and the manager and between the manager and the old committee who it seems all resigned. Even before I bought in the building their seemed to be a lot of infighting between different groups of forang. Its never really affected me but seems to be a constant power struggle. In my limited time their have been 3 different managers appointed and the committee before the last one also all resigned due it seems to actions from the manager.

Its a bit of a mess but ive just ignored it and the building is well kept and well managed. The building has a very large bank account of around 17 million so maybe some people have a motive but im guessing.

I feel for your situation as these seemingly simple things can suddenly become big things and a lot of people suffer.

I hope nothing comes of it, but I do wonder who invites these bods along to private meetings?

[cmexpat999]

Until I see official signed minutes of the meeting, I would just put it down as scaremongering.

since their were quite a few forang owners at the meeting im sure someone will confirm the facts ive reported. It seems likely the manager invited someone from immigration but I dont know. IMO it will come to nothing but I can assure you it was as ive reported. I normally avoid TV since it is usually full of nonsense and made up BS but since this could affect me I thought someone might have some useful knowledge on this subject or similar experiance. It is certainly in 4 years here the first ive ever heard or experienced this. I know many other owners and no one has ever mentioned this type of problem before. It was definitely a shock to most forang at the meeting.

You say

"I normally avoid TV since it is usually full of nonsense and made up BS

So you rush to sign up for TV and post on it

good point but so what im just reporting something which is true and seems new. Some of posts are valid but many are total BS. Does that clarify it for you. I usually avoid bankers, lawyers and estate agents but still use them sometimes and most of what they say is also BS.

[uptheos]

Does that clarify it for you. I usually avoid bankers, lawyers and estate agents but still use them sometimes and most of what they say is also BS.

[NBD]

Why do you spell it "forang"?

[uptheos]

Why do you spell it "forang"?

Who are you talking to?

[cmexpat999]

im not sure but I think it was the manager who invited immigration and their seems to be issues between some forang and the manager and between the manager and the old committee who it seems all resigned. Even before I bought in the building their seemed to be a lot of infighting between different groups of forang. Its never really affected me but seems to be a constant power struggle. In my limited time their have been 3 different managers appointed and the committee before the last one also all resigned due it seems to actions from the manager.

Its a bit of a mess but ive just ignored it and the building is well kept and well managed. The building has a very large bank account of around 17 million so maybe some people have a motive but im guessing.

I feel for your situation as these seemingly simple things can suddenly become big things and a lot of people suffer.

I hope nothing comes of it, but I do wonder who invites these bods along to private meetings?

thanks but im fine about it. As I said probably nothing will come of it and since I only rent one unit out and live in one if it looks like it will get tricky ill just leave the other unit empty and use it for storage or sell it. I live in the bigger unit and have the smaller studio which only rents for 7,500 per month anyway. After paying agents letting fees, maintenance and bits and pieces its only around 6,000 a month. Pays for the beer but thats about all and storage would be useful. After buying the bigger unit to live in it just seemed a good idea to get the smaller one for guests or storage but it was hardly ever used so it seemed a good idea to rent it out. Given their is some small risk its hardly worth bothering with. Ill probably just warn my tenant I wont renew when his lease expires and also say if he wants to leave I wont keep him to his agreement.

[elektrified]

I guess renting out a condo or house is doing business and liable to income tax..

It would be in most countries.

Are the minutes of the meeting posted anywhere?

Indeed the income from renting out a condo or house is subject to tax. Thais pay tax on money they collect for rent. Why shouldn't farangs?

[KhunVee]

At first: by Thai law, every rental contract should be registered and rental amount is subject to Withholding tax 3% to be paid by the owner.

Secondly: the income from rental should be filed just like all your other income and is subject to income tax at the end of year (amount depending on total of your income)

Theoretically,.... You cannot file for income taxes as foreigner without WP... So strictly there's some truth in this,... But then again, which Thai that rent out houses/condo's registers the contracts ? Let alone pays the W/H tax and reports the income????

I think this is some One-Man-Action from a government official who needs to line his pockets urgently.

Could yet lead to a dangerous presedent ...

first ive heard you need to register tenancy agreements with land office and in last 3-4 years ive talked to a lot of brokers here and none have told me this. But then TIT and who keeps to the law here so it might be true. I cant see all those places renting by month who all seem to have rental agreements registering and if they did the land office would be swamped. Ive heard that if you lease land for 30 years then it must be registered with land office and tax payable but never for a simple 1 year tenancy agreement so I think their must be some confusion.

Well as with so many things in Thailand,.... I've never heard this or that,... but I heard,..... blah blah blah.....

I could write 60 pages to answer this, but I wont.

If you're owner of real-estate and worry about this,.... My advise would be to talk to someone who knows this stuff and not the average broker, most of them are only interested in collecting commission and have no clue about the law whatsoever. Agreed, they're all nice chaps and gals (as they're sales-people) and the very few (PM me for a few names) that are running a good legit and professional business have to take the hits from the majority that are screwing the profession.

Just for the record: I am not in real estate business and I don't rent out anything.

For all your private/corporate tax issues/questions you should simply make an appointment with your local tax official (the one that signs/approves your reports) and he or she will help you doing what is needed to stay out of trouble.

I've been doing business in Thailand quite some time now, some good and some a little less, so knowledge is money. Even when you don't have any,.... knowing what to do the right way can help you alot. if not, a life saver.

All the rest is hear-say and BS.

[NBD]

Why do you spell it "forang"?

The op mostly, but could just as well be mentioned by anyone else who spells it that way. Though I've never seen anyone else spelling it so.

[cmsally]

If you really want to know where you stand then contact someone like Savilles or Richard Ellis in BKK. Tell them you want to buy a few condos and would like to know where you stand viz tax and work permit. See what you get in the reply and hang on to it to wave under the managers nose if necessary.

[KhunVee]

If you really want to know where you stand then contact someone like Savilles or Richard Ellis in BKK. Tell them you want to buy a few condos and would like to know where you stand viz tax and work permit. See what you get in the reply and hang on to it to wave under the managers nose if necessary.

You might need to bring a nice portion of that 17 million that's on the condo bank account..... and still be in the dark.

Why spend money when you can have free advise from the very same people that are going to check on you?

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Use a property agent to manage condo rentals. Problem solved.

How does that solve anything? It doesn't even hide ownership?

[george]

Use a property agent to manage condo rentals. Problem solved.

How does that solve anything? It doesn't even hide ownership?

It solves the work permit issue. They can also sort out so the withholding tax being paid.

[cmsally]

If you really want to know where you stand then contact someone like Savilles or Richard Ellis in BKK. Tell them you want to buy a few condos and would like to know where you stand viz tax and work permit. See what you get in the reply and hang on to it to wave under the managers nose if necessary.

You might need to bring a nice portion of that 17 million that's on the condo bank account..... and still be in the dark.

Why spend money when you can have free advise from the very same people that are going to check on you?

Is there ever such a thing as free advice from the people who could check on you. Why would anyone voluntarily put themselves on some regulatory body's radar

[KhunVee]

Use a property agent to manage condo rentals. Problem solved.

How does that solve anything? It doesn't even hide ownership?

It solves the work permit issue. They can also sort out so the withholding tax being paid.

That solves the managing issues and the WH tax formalities indeed.

Q: And what about the issue that you are generating INCOME?

How does your agent solve this?

A: NOT at all. He/she is only adding to the problem as he/she is reporting your income trough the WH tax registration.

[george]

Use a property agent to manage condo rentals. Problem solved.

How does that solve anything? It doesn't even hide ownership?

It solves the work permit issue. They can also sort out so the withholding tax being paid.

That solves the managing issues and the WH tax formalities indeed.

Q: And what about the issue that you are generating INCOME?

How does your agent solve this?

A: NOT at all. He/she is only adding to the problem as he/she is reporting your income trough the WH tax registration.

Yes, reporting your income and tax of that income being paid. Perfectly legal.

[KhunVee]

If you really want to know where you stand then contact someone like Savilles or Richard Ellis in BKK. Tell them you want to buy a few condos and would like to know where you stand viz tax and work permit. See what you get in the reply and hang on to it to wave under the managers nose if necessary.

You might need to bring a nice portion of that 17 million that's on the condo bank account..... and still be in the dark.

Why spend money when you can have free advise from the very same people that are going to check on you?

Is there ever such a thing as free advice from the people who could check on you. Why would anyone voluntarily put themselves on some regulatory body's radar

What a silly and short-sighted remark.

YES there is.... off course there is!!!

It is actually among their responsibilities and daily duties.

When you have a Visa issue.

Where do you go for the correct and free advise? Immigration right?

Why?

Because they're the ones that will check afterwards.

When you're about to built a building.

Where do you go for the correct and free advise? Land-Office right?

Why?

Because they're the ones that will check afterwards.

When you're about to generate income.

Where do you go for the correct and free advise? IRS right?

Why?

Because they're the ones that will check afterwards.

Aaaaahhhhrrrrrggggg,.....

[KhunVee]

he work permit issue. They can also sort out so the withholding tax being paid.

That solves the managing issues and the WH tax formalities indeed.

Q: And what about the issue that you are generating INCOME?

How does your agent solve this?

A: NOT at all. He/she is only adding to the problem as he/she is reporting your income trough the WH tax registration.

Yes, reporting your income and tax of that income being paid. Perfectly legal.

Wrong.

You're mixing apples with oranges.

Withholding tax is NOT income tax.

The rest needs to be reported as Income and will be taxed separately.

Different column on your Income report

[george]

he work permit issue. They can also sort out so the withholding tax being paid.

That solves the managing issues and the WH tax formalities indeed.

Q: And what about the issue that you are generating INCOME?

How does your agent solve this?

A: NOT at all. He/she is only adding to the problem as he/she is reporting your income trough the WH tax registration.

Yes, reporting your income and tax of that income being paid. Perfectly legal.

Wrong.

You're mixing apples with oranges.

Withholding tax is NOT income tax.

The rest needs to be reported as Income and will be taxed separately.

Different column on your Income report

I was talking about WHT. I am assuming you submit form PND91 at end of March as well. An accountant will sort that out.

[KhunVee]

he work permit issue. They can also sort out so the withholding tax being paid.

That solves the managing issues and the WH tax formalities indeed.

Q: And what about the issue that you are generating INCOME?

How does your agent solve this?

A: NOT at all. He/she is only adding to the problem as he/she is reporting your income trough the WH tax registration.

Yes, reporting your income and tax of that income being paid. Perfectly legal.

Wrong.

You're mixing apples with oranges.

Withholding tax is NOT income tax.

The rest needs to be reported as Income and will be taxed separately.

Different column on your Income report

I was talking about WHT. I am assuming you submit form PND91 at end of March as well. An accountant will sort that out.

yes.

PND91 .... and yes, my accountant files it,.... but, maybe time to check out your accountant?

There's apart where you write the WHT - already paid

But the rest (remaining 97%) still needs to be noted at Income.

This is where many go wrong ... even accountants ... until the day comes some over-active IRS agent invites you for a visit.

But that's a different story, my point (in a far reply to the OP) was that when you don't have a WP you can't file the PND91 and thus are generating income without reporting it for tax and so on,....

[letitbe]

this sort of thing happens every now and then but never comes to much. It is however one of the reasons all our property and condos are in my wife or our children's names. While risk is very small I prefer to have as little risk as possible. Now lets have all flaming about how my wife of 18+ years will take it all from me and so im taking a bigger risk. Well ive been told that for over 18 years and she better hurry up because at 86 she probably does have much time left to take it all but at least then all my friends can gloat and say told you so

[donmeurett]

It would be great if a Immigration reference was provided on this subject. It is hard to get any good information off places like this forum because anyone can write anything they wish. Fact or Fiction. I do know one thing for sure if this is true the laws are being broken in ChonBuri and Rayong also. I know condos and Houses are in the Wife's name or others in the Family but where do they get the Money to buy such a property.? There is a Falong involved for sure and that would not to be to hard to figure out if need be. It is best to have a find lawyer to advise you on the purchase of property before you buy it. Then find out what you can or cannot do with it after you bought it. Other wise you may be S. O. L.

Edited July 24, 2012 by donmeurett

[donmeurett]

http://www.thailandg...ondominium.html

Something I found on the Net it does not cover all the questions one may have on the subject but it is a start. It would be best to find lawyer to advise you on the purchase of property before you buy it. Then find out what you can or cannot do with it after you bought it.

More Information I have found.

Can I rent out my condo in Thailand

I own a condo in Bangkok but rarely use it. The market is slow for selling so I consider renting it out. Are there any legal restrictions or requirements for me as a foreigner?

In Lease and rental questions - Asked by Abil - One year ago

Sharing this question on Twitter or Facebook, or by asking someone to answer can improve results. 0 2 0

Answers

• 
  
  As long as it is not considered a business of you to buy and/or rent out condos in Thailand you are free to rent out your condo. Only when it comes to the intent to do this as a business the requirements under the Foreign Business Act and Foreign Employment Act must be complied with.
  Note that some condos have regulations that only allow residential use of the units by the owners and prohibit you to rent out your condo. If this is the case you could try to change the regulations first and put this on the agenda of the general meeting of the condo. Regulations, and such restrictions, are basically made by the owners of the units.
  Note that when you rent out your apartment you are responsible for paying land and housing tax each year, and also note that rental income is subject to personal income tax under the Thailand Revenue Code.
  It is recommended to make a rental agreement.
  References
  http://www.thailandlawonline.com/Laws/thailand-income-tax-law-revenue-code.html
  http://www.thailandlawonline.com/article-blog/property-law-land-and-housing-tax-in-thailand.html
  http://www.thailandlawonline.com/index.php?option=com_docman&Itemid=76
  

Edited July 24, 2012 by donmeurett