Democrat, Pad Call For Withdrawal Of 'Whitewash' Bills

[webfact]

Democrat, PAD call for withdrawal of 'whitewash' bills

The Nation

BANGKOK: -- The Democrat Party and the People's Alliance for Democracy on Thursday called on the coalition and House speaker to drop the four reconciliation bills from the House agenda.

The opposition party and the PAD reiterated Thursday that it was enough for the coalition to just postpone the deliberation of the reconciliation bills, which have been deemed by their opponents as attempts to whitewash the legal cases being faced by former premier Thaksin Shinawatra.

On Wednesday, the majority of the MPs - 272 - voted in support of first putting up the other 10 bills. The consideration proceedings will start next Wednesday.

Democrat MP Thepthai Senpong said House Speaker Somsak Kiartsuranon, the Pheu Thai Party and other coalition partners should withdraw the four bills right away. Thepthai asked what the coalition would do next after the deliberation of the 10 bills was completed.

On Thursday, the PAD held a press conference to demand the withdrawal of the four bills from the House.

PAD spokesman Parnthep Puapongphan said the deliberation of the 10 bills before the reconciliation bills was only an effort to buy time, not a real solution to the problem.

But the PAD has cancelled its plan to hold a rally next Wednesday now that it was clear that the House would not deliberate the four unity bills, Parnthep said, adding that the PAD would take to streets immediately if the bills came up for deliberation.

-- The Nation 2012-08-02

[webfact]

PAD delays mass rally against reconciliation bills

BANGKOK, Aug 2 -- Thailand's yellow-shirted mass movement, the People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) on Saturday moved to delay its mass rally against the reconciliation bills after the House of Representatives on Wednesday voted to postpone deliberation of the controversial bills at the opening of its new ordinary session.

However, the PAD said that it would regroup its demonstrators promptly if the bills were tabled as an urgent agenda for consideration in Parliament.

Spokesman Panthep Puapongpan told reporters after the meeting of PAD leaders that the movement would delay its mass rally against the reconciliation bills as they were not included in the session agenda for next week.

However, the bills were still in the pipeline as they were not withdrawn from Parliament. It was considered as an attempt of the government to play for time so that the PAD would closely monitor the Parliament session next week.

If the reconciliation bills were put as urgent agenda and set for deliberation in Parliament, the PAD would rally again, he said.

Mr Panthep said the PAD wanted the see the withdrawal of the bills from parliamentary consideration.

The PAD earlier petitioned the prime minister and the speakers of Parliament that the bills claimed to create unity, reconciliation and peace in society but in fact were actually aimed at annulling court verdicts in political cases delivered after the 2006 coup, actions which contradict the rule of law and the country's constitution. (MCOT online news)

-- TNA 2012-08-02

[Moruya]

Is that Douang using one of the BiB's latest bendy guns?

[happynthailand]

well its about time for Ms.Yingluck,to go for another rice paddy blessing some were up north.

like the 3 monkeys ,see nothing,hear nothing and don't know nothing

[webfact]

PAD insists reconciliation bill be pulled

The Nation

BANGKOK: -- The People's Alliance for Democracy is reiterating its demand for the withdrawal of the reconciliation bill, saying that the government's decision to suspend deliberation on it is just a ploy to push for the bill's passage at a later date.

"The PAD will immediately resume protesting if and when the reconciliation debate is revived on the House floor," PAD spokesman Panthep Pourpongpan said yesterday.

He added that PAD would not accept the House resolution to delay the debate in lieu of dropping the bill from the legislative docket. Panthep also called on the House to avoid inflaming the political situation by permanently removing the bill from the agenda.

The House decided on Wednesday to defer debate on the reconciliation bill until it has completed deliberations on 10 other drafts.

PAD co-leader Chamlong Srimuang said the government could face another round of street protests for as long as it refuses to cancel the bill. He added that the PAD would never allow a bill that has been designed to rescue one man - fugitive former PM Thaksin Shinawatra - regardless of the adverse impacts it would have on the rule of law.

In a related development, Democrat MP Thepthai Senapong said House Speaker Somsak Kiatsuranont should cancel the bill unconditionally.

"Delaying the debate is simply a ploy to buy time and sway the sentiment before pushing the bill through," he said.

Theptai added that the government was carrying a time bomb because the Opposition would never let it sneak the bill back for a vote on the House floor.

He also called on Somsak to step down and pave the way for the House committee on ethics to convene a hearing on his alleged impartiality.

The Democrat Party earlier petitioned for the hearing citing Somsak's audio clip as evidence. The clip - a recording of Somsak's speech to supporters during his birthday party in Phetchabun - outlined his and Thaksin's role in manipulating legislative affairs.

-- The Nation 2012-08-03

[JurgenG]

PAD co-leader Chamlong Srimuang said the government could face another round of street protests for as long as it refuses to cancel the bill. He added that the PAD would never allow a bill that has been designed to rescue one man - fugitive former PM Thaksin Shinawatra - regardless of the adverse impacts it would have on the rule of law.

Why is it so personal between Chamlong and Thaksin ? Why everything is negotiable but when it comes to Thaksin, then the more irrational hate prevails ?

We all know about Sondhi, the other PAD leader. Sondhi and Thaksin were good friends. Sondhi went bankrupt, not the first time, and in very muddy circumstances. Sondhi asked Thaksin to bend the rules to help him out, Thaksin refused. Sondhi hates Thaksin.

It's a bit similar with Chamlong. Chamlong used to be the head of the Palang Dharma Party. There was this new comer in politic named Thaksin Shinawatra who joined the PDP. The rise of Thaksin coincides with the fall of Chamlong. A few years later as the PDP was on its way down, Thaksin left to create TRT, the most successful party in Thai history. Chamlong, as usual, left politic to retire in a monastery. In short, the life of Chamlong can be describe by : failure, monastery, come back, failure, monastery, come back, repeat, repeat .... It's now easier understand the jealousy resented by Chamlong toward his hugely more successful ex junior party member.

I hope that now you can understand why it's so personal between the PAD and Thaksin

Edited August 3, 2012 by JurgenG

[longway]

^ No, now we know why YOU think its so personal between Chamlong, Sondhi and Thaksin.

[hellodolly]

If a bill for reconciliation does nothing except cause demonstrations how can it be called RECONCILIATION?

If Thaksin died tonight of a heart attack would there even be a bill for reconciliation. and if there still was would it not be worded differently?

[animatic]

Thaksin has a recorded history of stabbing those who have helped him in the back the moment it served him better to do so. Chamlong, Sondhi, Monson, you name them, the list is long and sordid,

and like elephants, those that survived have long memories.

So no surprise they don't want to cut Thaksin any slack,

he has never done so for them. In fact the opposite,

he has worked to screw them if he benefited.

Edited August 3, 2012 by animatic

[OzMick]

PAD co-leader Chamlong Srimuang said the government could face another round of street protests for as long as it refuses to cancel the bill. He added that the PAD would never allow a bill that has been designed to rescue one man - fugitive former PM Thaksin Shinawatra - regardless of the adverse impacts it would have on the rule of law.

Why is it so personal between Chamlong and Thaksin ? Why everything is negotiable but when it comes to Thaksin, then the more irrational hate prevails ?

We all know about Sondhi, the other PAD leader. Sondhi and Thaksin were good friends. Sondhi went bankrupt, not the first time, and in very muddy circumstances. Sondhi asked Thaksin to bend the rules to help him out, Thaksin refused. Sondhi hates Thaksin.

It's a bit similar with Chamlong. Chamlong used to be the head of the Palang Dharma Party. There was this new comer in politic named Thaksin Shinawatra who joined the PDP. The rise of Thaksin coincides with the fall of Chamlong. A few years later as the PDP was on its way down, Thaksin left to create TRT, the most successful party in Thai history. Chamlong, as usual, left politic to retire in a monastery. In short, the life of Chamlong can be describe by : failure, monastery, come back, failure, monastery, come back, repeat, repeat .... It's now easier understand the jealousy resented by Chamlong toward his hugely more successful ex junior party member.

I hope that now you can understand why it's so personal between the PAD and Thaksin

Thaksin's history could also be summarised - corruption, corruption, corruption, corruption, cancellation, conviction, treason.

[JurgenG]

Thaksin has a recorded history of stabbing those who have helped him in the back the moment it served him better to do so. Chamlong, Sondhi, Monson, you name them, the list is long and sordid,

and like elephants, those that survived have long memories.

So no surprise they don't want to cut Thaksin any slack,

he has never done so for them. In fact the opposite,

he has worked to screw them if he benefited.

We agree it's personal. But I think, and I'm not the only one, that things are going too far. People are getting tired to be taken hostage of their personal feud.

Thaksin has a party, a program, something we can vote for or against. If you want him to get away, you vote against him.

What about Sondhi ? What does he have to offer ? Anything constructive ? If we want him to go away, how do we do ? This guy is not so stupid, he knows if he faces the elector we will know how popular he really is. Not so actually.

That's an other thing PAD members have in common, all are losers in the democracy game.

[phiphidon]

Is that Douang using one of the BiB's latest bendy guns?

Wrong thread moruya, never mind.

[Reasonableman]

Who were the candidates in the election again? JG seems a liitle confused.

[phiphidon]

PAD delays mass rally against reconciliation bills

snip

The PAD earlier petitioned the prime minister and the speakers of Parliament that the bills claimed to create unity, reconciliation and peace in society but in fact were actually aimed at annulling court verdicts in political cases delivered after the 2006 coup, actions which contradict the rule of law and the country's constitution. (MCOT online news)

-- TNA 2012-08-02

And the Constitution Court ruled that this was not the case. So why are the PAD still threatening to rally against these bills when they have been found to be not against the constitution?

[phiphidon]

Thaksin has a recorded history of stabbing those who have helped him in the back the moment it served him better to do so. Chamlong, Sondhi, Monson, you name them, the list is long and sordid,

and like elephants, those that survived have long memories.

So no surprise they don't want to cut Thaksin any slack,

he has never done so for them. In fact the opposite,

he has worked to screw them if he benefited.

We agree it's personal. But I think, and I'm not the only one, that things are going too far. People are getting tired to be taken hostage of their personal feud.

Thaksin has a party, a program, something we can vote for or against. If you want him to get away, you vote against him.

What about Sondhi ? What does he have to offer ? Anything constructive ? If we want him to go away, how do we do ? This guy is not so stupid, he knows if he faces the elector we will know how popular he really is. Not so actually.

That's an other thing PAD members have in common, all are losers in the democracy game.

If you want Sondhi to go away first you have to get him in a jail. It's been tried 4 times already - his latest sentence is 20 years but then he was bailed by a Judge for the 4th time.

Edited August 3, 2012 by phiphidon

[rixalex]

Thaksin has a party, a program, something we can vote for or against. If you want him to get away, you vote against him.

To continue that line of thought, there are those who seem to think that voting for Thaksin, is voting against him having to face justice for alleged crimes. These people i think misunderstand what the power of the vote is and fundamentally misunderstand what democracy is.

That's an other thing PAD members have in common, all are losers in the democracy game.

True but the problem here is not that the PAD loses (who wants them running the country anyway?) but that democracy is perceived as you say, as a game. And that is all it is to many. It's not something you believe in. It's just something you try to win, like a game of tiddley-winks, and once you have won it, you can say you have done your bit for democracy, and now have carte-blanche to commit any anti-democratic act you wish, and anyone who has a problem with that, should refer back to the results of the game.

[animatic]

Thaksin has a recorded history of stabbing those who have helped him in the back the moment it served him better to do so. Chamlong, Sondhi, Monson, you name them, the list is long and sordid,

and like elephants, those that survived have long memories.

So no surprise they don't want to cut Thaksin any slack,

he has never done so for them. In fact the opposite,

he has worked to screw them if he benefited.

We agree it's personal. But I think, and I'm not the only one, that things are going too far. People are getting tired to be taken hostage of their personal feud.

Thaksin has a party, a program, something we can vote for or against. If you want him to get away, you vote against him.

What about Sondhi ? What does he have to offer ? Anything constructive ? If we want him to go away, how do we do ? This guy is not so stupid, he knows if he faces the elector we will know how popular he really is. Not so actually.

That's an other thing PAD members have in common, all are losers in the democracy game.

It's not personal if you think that

keeping someone with this mindset from taking total control

of the government and it's coffers is a very good idea for everyone.

[JurgenG]

Thaksin has a party, a program, something we can vote for or against. If you want him to get away, you vote against him.

To continue that line of thought, there are those who seem to think that voting for Thaksin, is voting against him having to face justice for alleged crimes. These people i think misunderstand what the power of the vote is and fundamentally misunderstand what democracy is.

So what you say is that Thai people can't, trough a popular vote, give an amnesty to Thaksin ?

Why not ? What in a democracy prevents that ? People have this power in other democracies, why wouldn't it be possible in Thailand ?

The junta asked the people to grant them amnesty from prosecution when they voted for the 2007 constitution, what is the difference ?

Edited August 3, 2012 by JurgenG

[Buchholz]

Why is it so personal between Chamlong and Thaksin ? Why everything is negotiable but when it comes to Thaksin

Chamlong used to be the head of the Palang Dharma Party. There was this new comer in politic named Thaksin Shinawatra who joined the PDP.

.... It's now easier understand the jealousy resented by Chamlong

I hope that now you can understand why it's so personal between the PAD and Thaksin

It's not from a sense of jealousy.

It's from a feeling of guilt.

Guilt for having given what would evolve into the most corrupt politician and worst human rights abuser in Thailand's history his entry into politics.

.

Edited August 3, 2012 by Buchholz

[khunken]

JurgenG:

Your piece about Chamlong, Sondhi & Thaksin is a combination of half-truths & omissions.

First of all you fail to mention that Chamlong was the main individual in bringing down General Suchinda after his coup in the early 90's. He actually used peaceful means to do it too, something that has mostly pervaded the yellow shirts' actions in contrast to the red shirts.

Chamlong did indeed take Thaksin into his party but he saw what sort of crook Thaksin is & it is not clear whether Thaksin was kicked out or he left of his own accord. It is telling that both Chamlong & Sondhi became enemies of Thaksin after befriending him. The story about Sondhi falling out with Thaksin over a loan/money/whatever is nothing but a rumour, repeated by red-shirt & Thaksin supporters ad-nauseum, hoping that repetition makes it factual.

I don't agree with much of what the yellow-shirts stand for but they are 100% correct to do all they can (maybe even using red-shirt violent tactics) to prevent the so-call reconciliation (aka whitewash) bill becoming law.

[Moruya]

Thaksin has a recorded history of stabbing those who have helped him in the back the moment it served him better to do so. Chamlong, Sondhi, Monson, you name them, the list is long and sordid,

and like elephants, those that survived have long memories.

So no surprise they don't want to cut Thaksin any slack,

he has never done so for them. In fact the opposite,

he has worked to screw them if he benefited.

We agree it's personal. But I think, and I'm not the only one, that things are going too far. People are getting tired to be taken hostage of their personal feud.

Thaksin has a party, a program, something we can vote for or against. If you want him to get away, you vote against him.

What about Sondhi ? What does he have to offer ? Anything constructive ? If we want him to go away, how do we do ? This guy is not so stupid, he knows if he faces the elector we will know how popular he really is. Not so actually.

That's an other thing PAD members have in common, all are losers in the democracy game.

If this is democracy, who are the winners?

Not the people for sure

[Moruya]

Is that Douang using one of the BiB's latest bendy guns?

Wrong thread moruya, never mind.

Right thread.

Wrong reader.

Post number 2. Photo.

[ThaiOats]

Thaksin has a party, a program, something we can vote for or against. If you want him to get away, you vote against him.

To continue that line of thought, there are those who seem to think that voting for Thaksin, is voting against him having to face justice for alleged crimes. These people i think misunderstand what the power of the vote is and fundamentally misunderstand what democracy is.

So what you say is that Thai people can't, trough a popular vote, give an amnesty to Thaksin ?

Why not ? What in a democracy prevents that ? People have this power in other democracies, why wouldn't it be possible in Thailand ?

The junta asked the people to grant them amnesty from prosecution when they voted for the 2007 constitution, what is the difference ?

They were given amnesty for the political demonstrations and even the Democrats said they wouldn't oppose giving amnesty to demonstrators. They are opposed to giving amnesty to people (a person) who were convicted for crimes in corruption which has nothing to do with reconciliation. I'm guessing if you can convince Thaksin to take that bit out of the reconciliation bill, we might be able to move ahead. Until then...

[Noistar]

Thaksin has a party, a program, something we can vote for or against. If you want him to get away, you vote against him.

To continue that line of thought, there are those who seem to think that voting for Thaksin, is voting against him having to face justice for alleged crimes. These people i think misunderstand what the power of the vote is and fundamentally misunderstand what democracy is.

So what you say is that Thai people can't, trough a popular vote, give an amnesty to Thaksin ?

Why not ? What in a democracy prevents that ? People have this power in other democracies, why wouldn't it be possible in Thailand ?

The junta asked the people to grant them amnesty from prosecution when they voted for the 2007 constitution, what is the difference ?

Here we go again.

It happened before so it's ok to repeat it.

Seems a recipe for repeating mistakes, not for moving forward for a better Thailand

[h90]

Thaksin has a recorded history of stabbing those who have helped him in the back the moment it served him better to do so. Chamlong, Sondhi, Monson, you name them, the list is long and sordid,

and like elephants, those that survived have long memories.

So no surprise they don't want to cut Thaksin any slack,

he has never done so for them. In fact the opposite,

he has worked to screw them if he benefited.

We agree it's personal. But I think, and I'm not the only one, that things are going too far. People are getting tired to be taken hostage of their personal feud.

Thaksin has a party, a program, something we can vote for or against. If you want him to get away, you vote against him.

What about Sondhi ? What does he have to offer ? Anything constructive ? If we want him to go away, how do we do ? This guy is not so stupid, he knows if he faces the elector we will know how popular he really is. Not so actually.

That's an other thing PAD members have in common, all are losers in the democracy game.

First of all did you forget to mention that his party was already twice dissolved for massive irregularities at the elections.

Second, do you know any other countries that gives their premier just an amnesty when convicted for corruption?

Third they call it "reconciliation bills" because all the opponents should be friends again. But all opponents who aren't in power disagree.

So it is hardly a reconciliation bill.

[Thai at Heart]

Until they sort out b the judicial system, it will be one step forward, two steps back for Thailand.

Anyone for a jury system? Now that would make life very interesting.

[ThaiOats]

Until they sort out b the judicial system, it will be one step forward, two steps back for Thailand.

Anyone for a jury system? Now that would make life very interesting.

It'd make it even worse. Pay off the jury.

[whybother]

<snip>

Thaksin has a party, a program, something we can vote for or against. If you want him to get away, you vote against him.

<snip>

A majority voted against him. Can he keep out of it all now?

[whybother]

Until they sort out b the judicial system, it will be one step forward, two steps back for Thailand.

Anyone for a jury system? Now that would make life very interesting.

It would make some random people rich instead of just the same one person each time.

[hellodolly]

PAD delays mass rally against reconciliation bills

snip

The PAD earlier petitioned the prime minister and the speakers of Parliament that the bills claimed to create unity, reconciliation and peace in society but in fact were actually aimed at annulling court verdicts in political cases delivered after the 2006 coup, actions which contradict the rule of law and the country's constitution. (MCOT online news)

-- TNA 2012-08-02

And the Constitution Court ruled that this was not the case. So why are the PAD still threatening to rally against these bills when they have been found to be not against the constitution?

At least they won't be bringing rocket launchers to the demonstration.