Army Infighting Caused Deaths During Red-Shirt Protests 2010: Academics

[Thait Spot]

The fact that there was a lot of ill-feeling (murderous hatred?) between different regiments in the Thai army is widely reported. The obvious bias to a particular regiment in regards to promotions left others extremely bitter

are you able to reference that with an article of any credibility?

New Mandala has this very good article and there are other sources out there.

http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandala/2010/04/27/the-deep-political-crisis-within-the-royal-thai-army-officer-corps

what became of the Manas Paolik branch?

[khunken]

The fact that there was a lot of ill-feeling (murderous hatred?) between different regiments in the Thai army is widely reported. The obvious bias to a particular regiment in regards to promotions left others extremely bitter

are you able to reference that with an article of any credibility?

New Mandala has this very good article and there are other sources out there.

http://asiapacific.a...y-officer-corps

what became of the Manas Paolik branch?

Yes & one needs a heavy dose of gullibility to believe the New Mandala piece. Propaganda comes to mind.

[philw]

Can you cite the inaccuracies or propagandist bits in the NM piece ??

Appreciate if you would substantiate your assertion.

In which respect (s) is it incorrect and "propagandist" ??

[OzMick]

Can you cite the inaccuracies or propagandist bits in the NM piece ??

Appreciate if you would substantiate your assertion.

In which respect (s) is it incorrect and "propagandist" ??

Well I for one had a laugh about " what happened was not the work of a disbanded group of specialist military rangers or tahan pran but rather of more skilled mercenaries."

Home-grown or foreign is moot.

[Dap]

With information like this coming from the academics, I can only surmise that I am living in "Toontown".

[philw]

Can you cite the inaccuracies or propagandist bits in the NM piece ??

Appreciate if you would substantiate your assertion.

In which respect (s) is it incorrect and "propagandist" ??

Well I for one had a laugh about " what happened was not the work of a disbanded group of specialist military rangers or tahan pran but rather of more skilled mercenaries."

Home-grown or foreign is moot.

Glad you read it.

What's your take on the general theme of the piece ?

[Jim walker]

Had a quick read of New Mandala regarding Thai army officer corps. Its amazing what people are still willing to murder for power and an extra star or a bit of gold braid, but I suppose murdering for power has been going on since time immemorial and even into the 21^st century I think it is just more relevant and sort of in your face especially in the third world countries thanks to the freedom of the media.

[dru2]

These outrageous claims by ad-hoc academic committees have lost all credibility, so much so, that even streching of the truth, small exagerations, or embellishments are now treated as telling porkies.

Same as most opinion polls - just paid results to lead the people.

Sad really, because this country needs input from academics.

Yes - but first it needs genuine academics. For quite a few years I supervised postgraduate students from SE Asia at the University of Aberdeen. In marked contrast to Indian and Chinese students, who understood the concept of original research, the Thais (and Malays) though research meant taking two or three good book and making them into one bad book.

[rubl]

"What if there is some truth to their assertion ?"

Stupid question, suggesting someone doesn't trust and/or believe the learned gentlemen involved in the report. Of course there's some truth to their assertion, most of it put nicely in the name of the group "Information Centre of People Affected by the Crackdowns on Demonstrations in April-May 2010".

About the rest, well read the report and you'll find me some, please

[Skywalker69]

With information like this coming from the academics, I can only surmise that I am living in "Toontown".

Must be Red Shirt "academics, wonder if they all went to Kentucky State University?

[waza]

Everyone has a opinion, but there is only one truth.

[yoshiwara]

'According to the report, as seen by The Nation, not all the killings at Kokwua Intersection were committed by the "men in black" as claimed by the then Democrat government.'

There are two interesting points here:

1. Recognition of the existence of the blackshirts

2. Recognition that the blackshirts did some of the killings

....................Let's listen to the forum redshirt apologists swallow and choke on that.

[whybother]

What if there is some truth to their assertion ?

It is a theory that I have heard raised before and it raises some very serious questions.

The fact that there was a lot of ill-feeling (murderous hatred?) between different regiments in the Thai army is widely reported. The obvious bias to a particular regiment in regards to promotions left others extremely bitter

It's interesting the two people who have denied armed elements amongst the red shirts for 2 & 1/2 years are now accepting the idea.

[philw]

What if there is some truth to their assertion ?

It is a theory that I have heard raised before and it raises some very serious questions.

The fact that there was a lot of ill-feeling (murderous hatred?) between different regiments in the Thai army is widely reported. The obvious bias to a particular regiment in regards to promotions left others extremely bitter

It's interesting the two people who have denied armed elements amongst the red shirts for 2 & 1/2 years are now accepting the idea.

Please don't put words in my mouth.

Show one post from me that supports what you say.

A serious challenge.

Can you ???

One post, only one, a little teeny one even...............

Even sweeten it for you in your challenge, 1,000 baht to the charity of your choice if you can substantiate your innuendo.

Edited August 20, 2012 by philw

[stefb1964]

not surprising because the army should be seen as a reflection of society.

[rubl]

What if there is some truth to their assertion ?

It is a theory that I have heard raised before and it raises some very serious questions.

The fact that there was a lot of ill-feeling (murderous hatred?) between different regiments in the Thai army is widely reported. The obvious bias to a particular regiment in regards to promotions left others extremely bitter

It's interesting the two people who have denied armed elements amongst the red shirts for 2 & 1/2 years are now accepting the idea.

Please don't put words in my mouth.

Show one post from me that supports what you say.

A serious challenge.

Can you ???

One post, only one, a little teeny one even...............

Even sweeten it for you in your challenge, 1,000 baht to the charity of your choice if you can substantiate your innuendo.

Does this count, or was the post that time safely circumstantial?

"Oh no...............the men in black are back.........

Save us, save us, save us............

Isn't it strange, that so few of this numerous group have been identified, accused, arrested, convicted etc.

Notwithstanding the massive photographic and witness testimony in the public domain."

http://www.thaivisa....75#entry5496804

[whybother]

It's interesting the two people who have denied armed elements amongst the red shirts for 2 & 1/2 years are now accepting the idea.

Please don't put words in my mouth.

Show one post from me that supports what you say.

A serious challenge.

Can you ???

One post, only one, a little teeny one even...............

Even sweeten it for you in your challenge, 1,000 baht to the charity of your choice if you can substantiate your innuendo.

Are you suggesting that you've never denied that armed elements were amongst the red shirts?

[philw]

It's interesting the two people who have denied armed elements amongst the red shirts for 2 & 1/2 years are now accepting the idea.

Please don't put words in my mouth.

Show one post from me that supports what you say.

A serious challenge.

Can you ???

One post, only one, a little teeny one even...............

Even sweeten it for you in your challenge, 1,000 baht to the charity of your choice if you can substantiate your innuendo.

Are you suggesting that you've never denied that armed elements were amongst the red shirts?

Clever, but do please try to be less disingenuous and a little more sincere.

Please respond to my post # 44.

You made an allegation, support it or admit your error.

[whybother]

Clever, but do please try to be less disingenuous and a little more sincere.

Please respond to my post # 44.

You made an allegation, support it or admit your error.

I can't really believe that you (or anyone) can think that the red shirts just happened to get caught in the middle of an army factional war, where no side was supporting or being supported by the red shirts.

Are you suggesting that there were 3 factions out there during the protests?

[philw]

Clever, but do please try to be less disingenuous and a little more sincere.

Please respond to my post # 44.

You made an allegation, support it or admit your error.

I can't really believe that you (or anyone) can think that the red shirts just happened to get caught in the middle of an army factional war, where no side was supporting or being supported by the red shirts.

Are you suggesting that there were 3 factions out there during the protests?

Ok, i will let it go.

You cannot support what you wrote, insist on more obfuscation and fail to answer directly.

Sad, but typical.

Mods, this exchange is closed on my side.

[whybother]

Clever, but do please try to be less disingenuous and a little more sincere.

Please respond to my post # 44.

You made an allegation, support it or admit your error.

I can't really believe that you (or anyone) can think that the red shirts just happened to get caught in the middle of an army factional war, where no side was supporting or being supported by the red shirts.

Are you suggesting that there were 3 factions out there during the protests?

Ok, i will let it go.

You cannot support what you wrote, insist on more obfuscation and fail to answer directly.

Sad, but typical.

Mods, this exchange is closed on my side.

If you don't think that there were 3 factions, then you must support that there was a faction supporting the red shirts. If you don't think there was a faction supporting the red shirts, then please explain Sae Daeng and his group.

[hellodolly]

"The group, calling itself the Information Centre of People Affected by the Crackdowns on Demonstrations in April-May 2010, presented its 933-page draft report on the political unrest in 2010 at a press conference at Thammasat University".

The I.C.P.A.C.D.A.M.2010, never heard of them.

I wonder if they are the ones putting out the in depth poll's taken periodically. You know the ones taken in around 20 provinces and any where 1,500 to 2,000 hand picked people to answer them.

I really liked this little piece

"She said the TRCT had neglected to find out whether the authorities had violated the rights of the demonstrators so the centre would do its best to uncover the truth and make it known to the public."

violated the rights of the demonstrators. She honestly believes the demonstrators had the right to take over the heart of the business district invade hospitals and try to burn Bangkok down. Just more proof that some of the dumbest people I know are Collage Graduates.

[hellodolly]

What if there is some truth to their assertion ?

It is a theory that I have heard raised before and it raises some very serious questions.

How is this for a theory I have heard and if true raises some serious questions.

The whole show was planned out and paid for by Thaksin. He hired people with no real moral values to carry it out and have them recruit the uneducated except in special schools set up to teach them what Thaksins idea of democracy was.

Just a theory mind you but it does raise some very serious questions. especially when Thaksin's party is pushing for a amnesty for all concerned and the opposition party says they will answer for their part. They are not trying to be white washed. Very puzzling indeed.

Yes very very interesting questions. Keep the theory's rolling. That way the real culprit will never have to answer for his crimes. Not that there is any real push for it in Dubai.

[hellodolly]

The fact that there was a lot of ill-feeling (murderous hatred?) between different regiments in the Thai army is widely reported. The obvious bias to a particular regiment in regards to promotions left others extremely bitter

Well no it is not widely known. And if it is true how do you know those particular regiments were even there. Wold you care to cite sources other than red shirt denials.

Have you considered changing your name to two words one you all ready have and the other is brain.

[waza]

"The group, calling itself the Information Centre of People Affected by the Crackdowns on Demonstrations in April-May 2010, presented its 933-page draft report on the political unrest in 2010 at a press conference at Thammasat University".

The I.C.P.A.C.D.A.M.2010, never heard of them.

I wonder if they are the ones putting out the in depth poll's taken periodically. You know the ones taken in around 20 provinces and any where 1,500 to 2,000 hand picked people to answer them.

I really liked this little piece

"She said the TRCT had neglected to find out whether the authorities had violated the rights of the demonstrators so the centre would do its best to uncover the truth and make it known to the public."

violated the rights of the demonstrators. She honestly believes the demonstrators had the right to take over the heart of the business district invade hospitals and try to burn Bangkok down. Just more proof that some of the dumbest people I know are Collage Graduates.

Thaksin does seem to attracts the more intellectually challenged from Thai society, whether they are academics, artists or not. This fact is clearly demonstrated here on TVF and with the redshirt leadership. As we are well aware in Thailand eductional degrees are a matter of money rather than intellect, even if its an arts degree.

Edited August 20, 2012 by waza

[rubl]

"The group, calling itself the Information Centre of People Affected by the Crackdowns on Demonstrations in April-May 2010, presented its 933-page draft report on the political unrest in 2010 at a press conference at Thammasat University".

The I.C.P.A.C.D.A.M.2010, never heard of them.

I wonder if they are the ones putting out the in depth poll's taken periodically. You know the ones taken in around 20 provinces and any where 1,500 to 2,000 hand picked people to answer them.

I really liked this little piece

"She said the TRCT had neglected to find out whether the authorities had violated the rights of the demonstrators so the centre would do its best to uncover the truth and make it known to the public."

violated the rights of the demonstrators. She honestly believes the demonstrators had the right to take over the heart of the business district invade hospitals and try to burn Bangkok down. Just more proof that some of the dumbest people I know are Collage Graduates.

Thaksin does seem to attracts the more intellectually challenged from Thai society, whether they are academics, artists or not. This fact is clearly demonstrated here on TVF and with the redshirt leadership. As we are well aware in Thailand eductional degrees are a matter of money rather than intellect, even if its an arts degree.

Please excuse me, but I do have a problem with this especially since you feel free to limit yourself to 'Thai society'. Very unfairly you seem to try to exclude some of the finer foreign intellect (posting here), some even educated in England's well known universities like Hull and Cambridge

[hellodolly]

The fact that there was a lot of ill-feeling (murderous hatred?) between different regiments in the Thai army is widely reported. The obvious bias to a particular regiment in regards to promotions left others extremely bitter

are you able to reference that with an article of any credibility?

New Mandala has this very good article and there are other sources out there.

http://asiapacific.a...y-officer-corps

Here is a part of the article that describes the ethics of the rd shirts.

"Gen Anupong, a member of the military academy’s Pre-Cadet Class 10, has been doing some hard thinking and executing some shrewd maneuvers. He has enjoyed some success in offering subtle, gentlemanly rejections to those urging upon him such thankless tasks as leading another coup to end the current political crisis or cracking down on the demonstrators. He has desperately wanted to retire in peace, without having to worry about Red Shirt revenge"

[hellodolly]

Had a quick read of New Mandala regarding Thai army officer corps. Its amazing what people are still willing to murder for power and an extra star or a bit of gold braid, but I suppose murdering for power has been going on since time immemorial and even into the 21^st century I think it is just more relevant and sort of in your face especially in the third world countries thanks to the freedom of the media.

I also had a quick read of it. I noticed there were no facts just conclusions that the writer had gotten in his interviews. Kind of like a Thai Poll. What do you want to believe we can provide you with a poll to prove it.

Don't believe what you saw on TV or u tube we can prove it was a conspiracy.

[hellodolly]

"What if there is some truth to their assertion ?"

Stupid question, suggesting someone doesn't trust and/or believe the learned gentlemen involved in the report. Of course there's some truth to their assertion, most of it put nicely in the name of the group "Information Centre of People Affected by the Crackdowns on Demonstrations in April-May 2010".

About the rest, well read the report and you'll find me some, please

Jeez do you mean there is more gobbledygook there.

[birdpooguava]

The fact that there was a lot of ill-feeling (murderous hatred?) between different regiments in the Thai army is widely reported. The obvious bias to a particular regiment in regards to promotions left others extremely bitter

Well no it is not widely known. And if it is true how do you know those particular regiments were even there. Wold you care to cite sources other than red shirt denials.

Have you considered changing your name to two words one you all ready have and the other is brain.

Have you considered becoming a little more knowledgeable about the whole affair before claiming others have @#$% for brains? Resorting to abuse certainly speaks volumes about your ability to engage in intellectual debate. Anyway..without sinking to your level... Yes Col. Romklao was in one of the feuding factions and he had also been handpicked and promoted ahead of other more experienced candidates making him a target of jealousy and hatred.