travelmann Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 Lets just hope by the time they realise something has gone wrong that its not too late. What you mean like , let the water out then go for lunch for a couple of hours! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisinth Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 related topic: Drainage tests inundate rice field in Thailand’s old capital AYUTTHAYA, Sept 5 – More than 1,000 rai of paddy field in this 'rice bowl' province, 76km north of Bangkok, was flooded Wednesday as the water level rose one metre higher than the Chao Phraya river, the lifeline of the central plains. Full story: http://www.thaivisa....ital-ayutthaya/ Interesting to see that 'upstream' the Chao Phraya has burst ("one metre higher than the Chao Phraya river") already without that much excessive rainfall. Are the water defences causing a barrier and 'Up-Country' is being sacrificed again? Not really dealing with a national problem...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisinth Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 What I would like to know is exactly what they are going to stop in case this real time test fails? What are their benchmarks of a failed system? It is not as if they can close the sluices and the 'problem' ends there. If a problem is detected, where will all the released water behind that point go? Difficult to take water away from the path of least resistance............. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apetley Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 "........were 90% ready for the test". Wouldn't it be prudent to be 100% ready? I'm pretty sure that they are aiming to be 100% ready and were only at 90% at the time of the press release. The flooding in Ayutthaya would seem to indicate otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soutpeel Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 What are their benchmarks of a failed system? Being up to your neck in flood waters while drinking on Soi cowboy ?... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hellodolly Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 Just the headline had me laughing. I dam_n near fell off my chair. She had to go to collage to figure that out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxLee Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 Ayutthaya is already done for again, for the next 3 months Check related Thaivisa news… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrTuner Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 Good idea these tests. Get people used to walking in water knee deep, perhaps they even grow gills. Conditioning is a major part of any governance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lujanit Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 These Thai's are an absolute f****ing joke. We live right beside a klong near Maha Sawat. They came and 'cleared out the klong' Their version was to use an excavator sitting on a barge and scoop out the garbage and place it on the bank. Guess what? The next rain just washed it all back in again. Someone made some baht out of that for sure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hellodolly Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 Well, just to be optimistic, perhaps we will learn something useful from this test. If it works out fine, then it would seem that some progress has actually been made to reduce the flooding problems. It's kind of nice to see some action instead of talk only. Well I agree it would be nice to learn some thing useful. But do you think they would understand it if they had a chance. I am not sure what they are testing. I know that 45 cubic meters a second being poured into a area only designed to take 10 cubic meters a second won't work. It will how ever tell them how high the water will get at that point in a four hour period of time. And if it rains for a longer period of time which it will they will be clueless as to what to do. I don't think they can get 1,000 boats in a canal. But I don't want to sell them short they might try to! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SICHONSTEVE Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 If it does go wrong then I'm sure they will try to find a way to blame it on Abhisit!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hellodolly Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 In my country they perform these tests in a laboratory. It is controlled, and it is possible to test all kind of situations, like pump failures and so on..... Waterloopkundig laboratorium. http://www.deltares.nl/en Oh smartypants, TIT. They know better. I am sure if they had asked nicely they could have had a scale model of the entire system built by the Dutch for free, and Yingluck and her bunch could play pooh-sticks to their hearts content in the comfort of their own home. I know the Dutch are great at water management (im Dutch) but i am not sure if it could account for everything. A model is just that a model, the real thing is a different beast all together. But of course testing in a model before testing in the real thing makes a lot of sense. Well knowingly pushing water from a channel with a max flow rate of 45 cubic per min into a channel of maximum 10 cubic per minute is going to prove exactly what? They know how far to open the channel to regulate 7 cubic per minute. They really need to do a full scale test to discover this? Wooooopppeeeee. Then what? Either it will flood or it won't in reality. I am all for testing, but in reality, the entire system could be computer modelled in very little time, all of the pinch points calculated, redesigns made, modelled again on computer, and something would improve. Why must it be done to re-invent the wheel over and over again, and claiming success, instead of availing oneself of all the accumulated global knowledge that is out there? We have super computers modelling global weather, I somehow think that the Bangkok canal and drainage system isn't beyond most powerful home computers and some modelling software. Agreed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thai at Heart Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 (edited) I am sure everything can be put in a computer model if you have the correct data. But how do you know that there is no blockage anywhere or that the data is correct. A model is a model and in the Netherlands id trust it, here not really as im not sure all things are documented. If you read more in the topic i also wondered about the 45 vs 10 cubic meters Well, if you know the maximum theoretical flow and you estimate that the channel is 50% full with shopping trolleys, dumped cars, houses and refuse from last year's event, the odd dead dog and 10mn plastic bags half filled with somtaam, you have 50% of 10cubic as a maximum. Of course, this year it is supposed to have been dredged, which of course, they will do religiously every year to maintain as close to the theoretical maximum as possible, so this test will be absolutely representative of what will happen every year. Meanwhile, they just sent water 1m over the banks up stream, so they obviously have a very precise facility to control the water flow. That ladies and gentleman is the absolute gold medal winner in terms of political suicide and incompetence that I think I have ever read anywhere in the world. If you were reading it on the front page of Notthenation or Private Eye you would accept it hook line and sinker. After all the money, talking, planning, spending, hand wringing, they try to conduct a real simulation to test one part of the system at 70% of its capacity and they send water 1m over the wall up country. Edited September 5, 2012 by Thai at Heart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOOD Robin Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 so if it doesn't work they are going to stop? this must be a very new concept for it to make news. Why they test it NOW in the middle of the rainy season ?? Why there were no tests before ???? Amazing Thailand i guess..... My oh my.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thai at Heart Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 (edited) so if it doesn't work they are going to stop? this must be a very new concept for it to make news. Why they test it NOW in the middle of the rainy season ?? Why there were no tests before ???? Amazing Thailand i guess..... My oh my.... I am waiting for the report that they let 7 cubic per minute extra into the channel as required, without thinking that the channel was already half full. Edited September 5, 2012 by Thai at Heart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khunken Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 I had a good laugh at the headline too. If it goes wrong near where they release the water, how the hell will they stop the flow? They're supposedly 90% ready. Well, I'd sympathise with anyone living near one of the klongs involved. I'm around 90% sure that this whole 'idea' is stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robblok Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 I am sure everything can be put in a computer model if you have the correct data. But how do you know that there is no blockage anywhere or that the data is correct. A model is a model and in the Netherlands id trust it, here not really as im not sure all things are documented. If you read more in the topic i also wondered about the 45 vs 10 cubic meters Well, if you know the maximum theoretical flow and you estimate that the channel is 50% full with shopping trolleys, dumped cars, houses and refuse from last year's event, the odd dead dog and 10mn plastic bags half filled with somtaam, you have 50% of 10cubic as a maximum. Of course, this year it is supposed to have been dredged, which of course, they will do religiously every year to maintain as close to the theoretical maximum as possible, so this test will be absolutely representative of what will happen every year. Meanwhile, they just sent water 1m over the banks up stream, so they obviously have a very precise facility to control the water flow. That ladies and gentleman is the absolute gold medal winner in terms of political suicide and incompetence that I think I have ever read anywhere in the world. If you were reading it on the front page of Notthenation or Private Eye you would accept it hook line and sinker. After all the money, talking, planning, spending, hand wringing, they try to conduct a real simulation to test one part of the system at 70% of its capacity and they send water 1m over the wall up country. Great work stupid people involved, but what i mean is that models and reality always conflict. I am all for using models first. But especially here in Thailand you can never be sure you account for all the stupid things that go around here. Like the not dredging it all .. illigal structures ect. And yes this is political suicide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dude007 Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 Great headline. Nah, keep on going I sat. Science minister claims sun shines in daytime. This science minister would better study some basic principles of water drainage before playing with real-scale tests jeopardisinig people's safety. Never heard of mathematic computer model-tests? Tablet computers are an ideal initiation of getting through this process..., which should not take longer than 3 hours before the batteries are finished. What a load of nonsense we have here now. What immaturity! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubl Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 As an aside, it started to rain again here in my part of Bangkok (Khet Dusit) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GentlemanJim Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 FLOOD DRAINAGE TESTTest to be stopped if it goes wrong So did they stop it already? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisinth Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 What are their benchmarks of a failed system? Being up to your neck in flood waters while drinking on Soi cowboy ?... I'll pull up a raft and join you............. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubl Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 "Away! ... Go Away, Ocean! ... I'm Magon, the Basilius! ... Obey! ... Help, men!" From the comics "Blake and Mortimer - The Mystery of Atlantis" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post dude007 Posted September 5, 2012 Popular Post Share Posted September 5, 2012 (edited) May I add to this forum a short reminder of what we really are talking of? 1. all the water has to go to the sea, if not sooner, then later... 2. the drainage capacity of the Chao Phraya is max between 4,000 and 4,500 m3/sec. 3. Bangkok drainage canals (dredged or not) with a drainage capacity of 50-100 m3/sec will NOT solve the problem. The needed overcapacity of the river to eliminate flooding is about 2,700 m3/sec (once the gates from main river dams have been opened) and that adds up to the heavy rainfall that can happen in the central plains during mid-summer like happened last year, which was a very unfortunate coincidence that after all could have been foreseen and could have been avoided... 4. flooding like last year in Bangkok is this year not possible indeed: (i) there is little rainfall during the same period compared to last year, and (ii) the big dams upstream the Chao Phraya are barely filled up to 55-60%, leaving a huge buffer-capacity and a huge problem for next year if they cannot be filled up at the end of the rain season. 5. There has substantially NOTHING changed with last year's flood situation as no major work has been carried out to increase the drainage capacity of the Chao Phraya and the central plains. Hundreds of millions of Baht have been spent on constructing flood walls (which are INCREASING the waterlevels upstream) and dredging almost useless canals (in which they are now playing games). Not a single work has substantially increased the drainage capacity of the system. 6. Bangkok city is sinking every year deeper and deeper in the unconsolidated maritime clay upon which it is built, needing every year higher and higher flood walls along the Chao Phraya to protect the inner city. 7. There is still NO LONG TERM PROJECT EXISTING. Some TOR's have been prepared for international consultants (focus on China - why? positive experience with the three gorges dam???) to prepare long term masterplan for flood mitigation. Way to late, way too little. Short term populist methods are much more aimed by the actual government to spend millions of THB on absolutely useless works from which only PT-contractors are benefitting and of course the Governmental agencies and the party. Disappointing situation that needs to be known. Edited September 5, 2012 by dude007 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skywalker69 Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 so if it doesn't work they are going to stop? this must be a very new concept for it to make news. I am sure our "intelligent" S&T Minister has something up his sleeve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khunken Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 so if it doesn't work they are going to stop? this must be a very new concept for it to make news. I am sure our "intelligent" S&T Minister has something up his sleeve. Yeah - it's one of those little propellors on a stick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxLee Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 related topic: Drainage tests inundate rice field in Thailand’s old capital AYUTTHAYA, Sept 5 – More than 1,000 rai of paddy field in this 'rice bowl' province, 76km north of Bangkok, was flooded Wednesday as the water level rose one metre higher than the Chao Phraya river, the lifeline of the central plains. Full story: http://www.thaivisa....ital-ayutthaya/ Interesting to see that 'upstream' the Chao Phraya has burst ("one metre higher than the Chao Phraya river") already without that much excessive rainfall. Are the water defences causing a barrier and 'Up-Country' is being sacrificed again? Not really dealing with a national problem...... It's the same old story, sacrifice the other nations as if they are the scum of flood society to protect one main city in Bangkok, that is going to sink deeper and deeper in years to come, almost as downlow as Ayutthaya. You know what happens, when all the other provinces in Thailand is flooding???? Will you know what will happen to the Thai economy, if the main agricultural societies that are mainly upcountry get flooded for more than half a year??? Rice fields, fruit plantations, etc???? Will Bangkok people actually have enough to eat???? Do you get my points, ladies and gentlemen,... by sacrificing upcountry provinces nationwide, The Thai government will let the majority of arrogant people suffer an anguish Food crisis… Transportation for supplies are gonna get gridlocked… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thai at Heart Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 I swear this comes about because Thai kids only take showers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mosha Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 Now when that water gets down stream. What happens to Bangkok? I distinctly remember a piece in The Nation posted on TV News forum last year. A government minister said if Bangkok floods next year, we deserve to be kicked out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubl Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 What i find strange is that if you know of a problem point that is only letting through 20% or less then the rest of the canal that they would not dredge.. enlarge that portion some way. It would be a huge win for drainage. Too logical, you must be Dutch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koto Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 Bangkok's east on Friday because Lat Phrao Canal was ready to receive large amounts of water after officials removed mud and sewage from it. Aloha I am far, far from being a rocket scientist, but if they have and continue to, clean out all the toxic waste from the storm drains, at least the flooding waters will not be as contaminated as before, also not piling the toxic waste, near the river,which will rise. I just try to deal with K I S S "Keep It Simple Stupid" and it seems to work for me... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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