Minimum Daily Wage: Nationwide Extension Spark Concerns

[rubl]

The Pheu Thai party had this 'campaign only'(?) promise:

Sorry what has that to with an annual increase that you told me about?

Terribly sorry if I confused you, dear phiphidon. Now please pay attention:

I did not say that had a relation

[Jim walker]

And then the workers have more money to spend and to buy more goods, so more goods need to be made so more jobs created it’s a win win for everyone except the poor Thai billionaire’s what’s in it for them?

[rubl]

I have to do some searching, but one of our more 'knowledgable' members had stated a while ago that if a company can't afford a small increase in wages they shouldn't be in business anyway. Haven't seen him posting on this topic yet

Do you agree with him or are you all for encouraging exploitation of the workforce? Do you get paid local rates or foreigner rates, assuming you work?

I'm not as knowledgeble on these types of economical issues as your acolite, but I fear I have to disagree. 72% of Thai workers are employed by SMEs, but no breakdown on wage/salary scales. I would love to have some info on the relation between salary scales, number of employees in salary scales, number of companies. With that I would be able to make some more studied comment.

I do live and work in Thailand since 1994. Obviously not as English teacher, I'm not a native speaker As for my salary level, very politely, none of your bloody business

Didn't need to know how much rubl, just which payment method. You see I would regard any foreigner working in Thailand and getting foreigner rates would be hypocritical at the very least on commenting in a negative way on any local thai being able to earn a miminum wage of 300 baht a day

Since I'm not commenting negatively on the local Thai being able to earn a minimum of THB 300 a day, I guess you don't suggest I might be hypocritical. Some others here might be offended though.

BTW your personal circumstances are such that you have every right to sprout whatever you feel like? Including seeming to forget yearly wage increases?

[whybother]

And then the workers have more money to spend and to buy more goods, so more goods need to be made so more jobs created it’s a win win for everyone except the poor Thai billionaire’s what’s in it for them?

Workers have more money to spend. The problem is when the prices of goods and services go up.

The worker gets a pay increase but the increase go towards the increased prices.

In a lot of places, minimum wage increases are related to productivity increases. So wages go up, productivity goes up, prices stay the same, the worker has more money to spend on new things.

[rixalex]

Will you at least accept that this coming January, is on the face of it nearer the present day than "the end of time" unless of course you are a believer in the Mayan Phrophecy?

All well and good if you actually believe it is coming in January.

I don't recall the PTP "promised to implement it at sometime between now and the end of time" as part of their election policy so I'll just put that down to the usual hyperbole expressed by the frothers at any government action.

It was a tongue in cheek reaction to the opinion expressed here by some that even if only a fraction of the population received what was promised at the election, that was satisfactory and did not constitute a broken promise, as it was being "phased in" with no particular set time-frame.

Seeing that the usual subjects original rant was that the PTP were criminally negligent in proposing to raise the minimum wage (after 10 years of zero increase) in one hit, one would have thought they would be pleased at this "phasing in" , but here you are complaining against it.

Guess there's no pleasing some people...........................

The complaining wasn't about the phasing it in bit, which makes sense to me, it was about the blatant lying to win votes. I'm of the belief that if you promise something, you should check whether it is feasible and implementable first. What happened here was they made the promises first, to help get in power, and then they started thinking about if they could deliver on the promise, and realised they could not.

If this is acceptable practice, at the next election a party should promise 10 million baht deposited into everyone's account, and then when they get in power and realise, shock horror, they can't do this, deposit 10 baht into everyone's account and declare that they weren't lying or breaking their promise, they were simply "phasing in" the policy.

[hellodolly]

I have to do some searching, but one of our more 'knowledgable' members had stated a while ago that if a company can't afford a small increase in wages they shouldn't be in business anyway. Haven't seen him posting on this topic yet

Do you agree with him or are you all for encouraging exploitation of the workforce? Do you get paid local rates or foreigner rates, assuming you work?

I'm not as knowledgeble on these types of economical issues as your acolite, but I fear I have to disagree. 72% of Thai workers are employed by SMEs, but no breakdown on wage/salary scales. I would love to have some info on the relation between salary scales, number of employees in salary scales, number of companies. With that I would be able to make some more studied comment.

I do live and work in Thailand since 1994. Obviously not as English teacher, I'm not a native speaker As for my salary level, very politely, none of your bloody business

Didn't need to know how much rubl, just which payment method. You see I would regard any foreigner working in Thailand and getting foreigner rates would be hypocritical at the very least on commenting in a negative way on any local thai being able to earn a miminum wage of 300 baht a day

Since I'm not commenting negatively on the local Thai being able to earn a minimum of THB 300 a day, I guess you don't suggest I might be hypocritical. Some others here might be offended though.

BTW your personal circumstances are such that you have every right to sprout whatever you feel like? Including seeming to forget yearly wage increases?

Sorry to interrupt but what is the good of a raise if it just costs more to live. Seems kind of pointless to me. No body but nobody is paying 300 baht a day to their employes unless they are making a heck of a lot more them selves. [of course the ones who are being forced to by law are.]

It is kind of a waste of time to compare a westerner working in Thailand to a Thai. The Thai is used to the living style and in many cases the foreigner will earn much more than his Thai counterpart.

They will also be earning a heck of a lot less than they would where they come from.

I have a Foreign friend taking the course you need to take in order to teach English here in Thailand. Never mind the fact they have a masters in English back in the states.

That really has nothing to do with it as no employers know it. The point is it is a four week course and they were offered several jobs in the second week of it. The point is that my friend will do the same job as a Thai for 2 to 3 times the wages and they are lining up to get the native speaking English teachers ahead of the Thai teaches. Top salary would only be $1,000 U S a month far below minimum salary in the states.

Kind of a waste of time to compare the two. As there is Two completely different situations.

[phiphidon]

begin removed ...

Seeing that the usual subjects original rant was that the PTP were criminally negligent in proposing to raise the minimum wage (after 10 years of zero increase) in one hit, one would have thought they would be pleased at this "phasing in" , but here you are complaining against it.

Guess there's no pleasing some people...........................

"after 10 years of zero increase" is incorrect. There used to be a yearly adjustment, at least uptil begin of 2011

Any links for this, I'm always willing to learn............

Some people seem to need to learn time and time again as links and tables have been posted here with some frequency.

Just a few to help you get started (again), for the rest may I suggest either the 'not-so-execellent' TV search engine of yahoo/google? Maybe http://www.mol.go.th (Thai only)?

2008

http://www.bangkokba...ailand-bangkok/

January, 2010

http://thailand.prd....php?id=4673&a=2

December, 2010

http://thailand-busi...es-minimum-wage

Thats better, thank you. So it turns out that, in theory, the Bangkok wage went from 203 to 215 baht a day and for example Chiang Mai from 168 to 171 baht a day in 2 years. If anybody actualy did raise the wage rather than talk about it and then left it up to the employers. No wonder theyre angsty up there in Chiang Mai.

I wonder if there had been an incremental rise in the 10 years prior to 2008 as I'm sure the 10 year zero growth in minimum wage was not a figment of my imagination ?

[OzMick]

If the employer wants to be more competitive he needs to negotiate better terms with his suppliers or wholesalers when purchasing his materials, and if a contractor goes bust there will always be someone else to take his place, it’s frequently miss management that takes companies down not the labour rates.

it is interesting that you think an employer can alleviate wage increases by getting better terms from his suppliers, wholesalers and contractors who are also under pressure from exactly the same wage increases. Aren't they similarly going to ask for better terms from him?

[phiphidon]

The complaining wasn't about the phasing it in bit, which makes sense to me, it was about the blatant lying to win votes. I'm of the belief that if you promise something, you should check whether it is feasible and implementable first. What happened here was they made the promises first, to help get in power, and then they started thinking about if they could deliver on the promise, and realised they could not.

If this is acceptable practice, at the next election a party should promise 10 million baht deposited into everyone's account, and then when they get in power and realise, shock horror, they can't do this, deposit 10 baht into everyone's account and declare that they weren't lying or breaking their promise, they were simply "phasing in" the policy.

If they don't pay the remaining provinces the 300 baht minimum wage in January, I will accept that they have blatantly lied. Otherwise, job done.

I think you put too much faith in believing the reason the PTP were voted into office as opposed to the democrat party was purely down to their promises of populist policies. The democrats have been known to "pimp their ride" with populist promises before election time

When Abhisit assumed office in December 2008, the global financial crisis had just erupted and begun to threaten Thailand’s export-dependent economy. As unemployment rose and export businesses declined a result of the rising baht, weaker export demand and a series of floods, the government issued a number of freebies – some are extensions of what previous governments did, including free 15-year schooling (up from 12 years), extending free medical insurance, free electricity for the first 90 units, free water for the first 30 units, free rides on public buses for certain routes, and a THB500 monthly assistance for the elderly aged over 60..................

...................In December 2010, the government announced decisions to raise minimum wages of between THB8 and 17. While the move was not welcomed by business operators who are struggling to keep costs low to survive economic downturn, it was mostly hailed by other sectors of the general public. However, a plan to raise salaries of MPs and senators by 14 per cent was heavily criticised by even pro-Democrat supporters and media outlets.............................

..................................On the national level, this can lead to political parities competing for votes on the basis of who is giving more and better freebies. But with a new election looming, Thaksin’s political games have moved into the mainstream.

The Democrat Party has gone from an acerbic critic as the opposition to a full-fledged proponent of populist measures.

Renowned columnist Suthichai Yoon has said

“If Thaksin Shinawatra had invented the modern-day populist platform, it seems that Abhisit Vejjajiva is even more determined to outdo him.”

http://businessrepor...-populism-12442

As is widely known it doesn't seem to have made the democrats any more electable..............

[rixalex]

If they don't pay the remaining provinces the 300 baht minimum wage in January, I will accept that they have blatantly lied.

They won't, but ok, let's wait until January. If they deliver, i'll be the first to pat them on the back. If they don't, I hope we don't get treated to a new lot of justifications/excuses.

I think you put too much faith in believing the reason the PTP were voted into office as opposed to the democrat party was purely down to their promises of populist policies. The democrats have been known to "pimp their ride" with populist promises before election time

Populist policies that are promised and then delivered on, are really not a problem for me, in fact i welcome them, providing of course that they are sustainable. And i give a lot of credit to Thaksin for being the one who made all the other parties start thinking more about what they can offer.

And i don't believe that populist policies were the only reason why PTP were voted into office, but i do believe they were one of the main ones. At the end of the day, we'll never know; people were asked to tick boxes, not also give their reasons.

I do believe though that when a party makes an election pledge, they should be pressured to make good on that pledge. And whilst the minimum wage policy promise can't yet been deemed a failure, i do believe it can be deemed as failing until such a time it is fully implemented. All this "being phased in" talk is a cop out that is in contradiction to what was implied in the election promise.

[OzMick]

If they don't pay the remaining provinces the 300 baht minimum wage in January, I will accept that they have blatantly lied. Otherwise, job done.

I think you put too much faith in believing the reason the PTP were voted into office as opposed to the democrat party was purely down to their promises of populist policies. The democrats have been known to "pimp their ride" with populist promises before election time

When Abhisit assumed office in December 2008, the global financial crisis had just erupted and begun to threaten Thailand’s export-dependent economy. As unemployment rose and export businesses declined a result of the rising baht, weaker export demand and a series of floods, the government issued a number of freebies – some are extensions of what previous governments did, including free 15-year schooling (up from 12 years), extending free medical insurance, free electricity for the first 90 units, free water for the first 30 units, free rides on public buses for certain routes, and a THB500 monthly assistance for the elderly aged over 60..................

...................In December 2010, the government announced decisions to raise minimum wages of between THB8 and 17. While the move was not welcomed by business operators who are struggling to keep costs low to survive economic downturn, it was mostly hailed by other sectors of the general public. However, a plan to raise salaries of MPs and senators by 14 per cent was heavily criticised by even pro-Democrat supporters and media outlets.............................

..................................On the national level, this can lead to political parities competing for votes on the basis of who is giving more and better freebies. But with a new election looming, Thaksin’s political games have moved into the mainstream.

The Democrat Party has gone from an acerbic critic as the opposition to a full-fledged proponent of populist measures.

Renowned columnist Suthichai Yoon has said

“If Thaksin Shinawatra had invented the modern-day populist platform, it seems that Abhisit Vejjajiva is even more determined to outdo him.”

http://businessrepor...-populism-12442

As is widely known it doesn't seem to have made the democrats any more electable..............

If you had read your own quotation, you would have read that the Democrat's policies (with the exception of pol's wage increase) were assisting the poorest in society by reducing their costs and enabling them to obtain better education, and the quote doesn't include other sensible and well aimed policies like their rice subsidy paid directly to farmers and the school uniform/textbook subsidy.

Given time sensible policies could have raised living standards and increased education/productivity levels. Instead they were labelled murderers, and the electorate sold pie-in-the-sky tablets, the rice pledging scam and inflationary-spiral inducing wage rises.

Edited September 6, 2012 by OzMick

[philw]

This wage increase has no benefit to anyone in the long term. As the labor costs go up, the factories must raise their prices on everything at every stage to compensate, hence the prices of everything needed to live peacefully also increase. Thailand has not been competitive with many other places in a long time, and this only exacerbates the situation.

No benefit to anyone in the long term ???

What planet are you from ?

Can you live on less than 300 baht per day ??

Export companies have many options,raise their prices or improve their efficiency or lower their profit expectation or put more pressure on their suppliers or join the real world in any combination thereof.

I own a manufacturing company and we are competitive in our industry with China, Phils and Vietnam in terms of FOB pricing and quality and we are ahead in terms of client service.

All my production staff make make more than the minimum 300 a day and I love it.

I can't see Honda pulling out of Thailand for this reason.

I truly hate the expat attitude of pennies for you and dollars for me.

And I run a business, not a charity.

[rubl]

"after 10 years of zero increase" is incorrect. There used to be a yearly adjustment, at least uptil begin of 2011

Any links for this, I'm always willing to learn............

Some people seem to need to learn time and time again as links and tables have been posted here with some frequency.

Just a few to help you get started (again), for the rest may I suggest either the 'not-so-execellent' TV search engine of yahoo/google? Maybe http://www.mol.go.th (Thai only)?

2008

http://www.bangkokba...ailand-bangkok/

January, 2010

http://thailand.prd....php?id=4673&a=2

December, 2010

http://thailand-busi...es-minimum-wage

Thats better, thank you. So it turns out that, in theory, the Bangkok wage went from 203 to 215 baht a day and for example Chiang Mai from 168 to 171 baht a day in 2 years. If anybody actualy did raise the wage rather than talk about it and then left it up to the employers. No wonder theyre angsty up there in Chiang Mai.

I wonder if there had been an incremental rise in the 10 years prior to 2008 as I'm sure the 10 year zero growth in minimum wage was not a figment of my imagination ?

Bangkok from 190 Jan 2008 - 203 Jan 2009 - 206 Jan 2010 - 215 Jan 2011 - 300 Apr 2012

ChiangM from 159 Jan 2008 - 171 Jan 2009 - 171 Jan 2010 - 180 Jan 2011 - 251 Apr 2012

This link has a nice graphic covering Jan 2007 till April 2012. Sufficiently clear to come to all kind of conclusions even if just for the fun of it. I will refrain.

http://blog.securiti...y-minimum-wage/

[Spoonman]

If the employer wants to be more competitive he needs to negotiate better terms with his suppliers or wholesalers when purchasing his materials

So the employer should renegotiate a lower price with the suppliers............ can just see it now,

Employer to Supplier - drop your prices as my staff salaries have increase.

Supplier to Employer - screw you jack, my staff salaries also increase so I will raise the price of my product not lower it.

bwahahahahahahahahahahnba

[rubl]

begin removed ...

I wonder if there had been an incremental rise in the 10 years prior to 2008 as I'm sure the 10 year zero growth in minimum wage was not a figment of my imagination ?

1997 was a lost year, then an austerity period under PM Chuan followed by the golden period under PM Thaksin and from September 2006 till December 2007 rude suppression by a Junta and it's appointed government. Surely there must have been at least a few years with a structural increase of the minimum wage rather then some ad-hoc handouts ?

[whybother]

I think you put too much faith in believing the reason the PTP were voted into office as opposed to the democrat party was purely down to their promises of populist policies. The democrats have been known to "pimp their ride" with populist promises before election time

When Abhisit assumed office in December 2008, the global financial crisis had just erupted and begun to threaten Thailand’s export-dependent economy. As unemployment rose and export businesses declined a result of the rising baht, weaker export demand and a series of floods, the government issued a number of freebies – some are extensions of what previous governments did, including free 15-year schooling (up from 12 years), extending free medical insurance, free electricity for the first 90 units, free water for the first 30 units, free rides on public buses for certain routes, and a THB500 monthly assistance for the elderly aged over 60..................

...................In December 2010, the government announced decisions to raise minimum wages of between THB8 and 17. While the move was not welcomed by business operators who are struggling to keep costs low to survive economic downturn, it was mostly hailed by other sectors of the general public. However, a plan to raise salaries of MPs and senators by 14 per cent was heavily criticised by even pro-Democrat supporters and media outlets.............................

..................................On the national level, this can lead to political parities competing for votes on the basis of who is giving more and better freebies. But with a new election looming, Thaksin’s political games have moved into the mainstream.

The Democrat Party has gone from an acerbic critic as the opposition to a full-fledged proponent of populist measures.

Renowned columnist Suthichai Yoon has said

“If Thaksin Shinawatra had invented the modern-day populist platform, it seems that Abhisit Vejjajiva is even more determined to outdo him.”

http://businessrepor...-populism-12442

As is widely known it doesn't seem to have made the democrats any more electable..............

Why are you talking about Democrat "promises"? These are things that they DID.

[Thai at Heart]

And then the workers have more money to spend and to buy more goods, so more goods need to be made so more jobs created it’s a win win for everyone except the poor Thai billionaire’s what’s in it for them?

Workers have more money to spend. The problem is when the prices of goods and services go up.

The worker gets a pay increase but the increase go towards the increased prices.

In a lot of places, minimum wage increases are related to productivity increases. So wages go up, productivity goes up, prices stay the same, the worker has more money to spend on new things.

Well, domestic inflation was being kept artificially low by continuing to pay minimum wage increases below inflation for a long time.basically the poor were subsidising the spending of the middle and upper wealth brackets. I have bizarre state of affairs.

[MaxLee]

There's only one thing Bangkok people can do with their higher income: To pay more debts in higher cost of living and for their future flooded homes And the moral of the story is, the Pheu Thai has ripped all their supporters off, by believing in promises that never had the intention to actually help them...

Edited September 6, 2012 by MaxLee

[who]

.

I wonder if farmers are excluded from this minimum wage requirement.

[rubl]

.I wonder if farmers are excluded from this minimum wage requirement.

Farmers already had THB 350 billion thrown at them if I remember correctly. By now they must all be rich and able to pay 300B/d, would you say so?

[h90]

And then the workers have more money to spend and to buy more goods, so more goods need to be made so more jobs created it’s a win win for everyone except the poor Thai billionaire’s what’s in it for them?

that is the basic idea but it won't work, workers get more money but some loose the jobs, at the end zero effect.

[hellodolly]

This wage increase has no benefit to anyone in the long term. As the labor costs go up, the factories must raise their prices on everything at every stage to compensate, hence the prices of everything needed to live peacefully also increase. Thailand has not been competitive with many other places in a long time, and this only exacerbates the situation.

No benefit to anyone in the long term ???

What planet are you from ?

Can you live on less than 300 baht per day ??

Export companies have many options,raise their prices or improve their efficiency or lower their profit expectation or put more pressure on their suppliers or join the real world in any combination thereof.

I own a manufacturing company and we are competitive in our industry with China, Phils and Vietnam in terms of FOB pricing and quality and we are ahead in terms of client service.

All my production staff make make more than the minimum 300 a day and I love it.

I can't see Honda pulling out of Thailand for this reason.

I truly hate the expat attitude of pennies for you and dollars for me.

And I run a business, not a charity.

The very fact you are all ready paying the 300 baht a day shows that you are running a very profitable business and have more room to move around than some of the smaller businesses.

Not every business is in a high profit category. You are one of the fortunate ones. How about the 7 11s with a 24 hour day and a large staff. You suggest that maybe they increase the staff productivity. Good plan. Then they can maintain the same standard of business with less employes. Ergo unemployment or raise their prices and create inflation.

I am quite sure in many of the larger businesses this will not be a problem. But for smaller ones it could be a huge problem. How about the farm hands do you think all the farmers will be able to stay in business when they have to pay 300 baht a day.

You are forgetting that you are in Thailand and trying to compare the Thai wage and style of life to the western one. To the average Thai until they were told they should get more money by Westerners things were fine. There is a difference in the cultures. If I was to buy a house that I liked the wife would hate it, to big she would say.

And one more thing about foreigners working here for more than there Thai counterparts they could make a lot more where they come from and I may be wrong but I don't think you are going to find many on production lines or behind the counter's in 7 11's or in the rice fields.

Don't get me wrong I agree that a raise was in order but it should have taken into consideration the unemployment and the inflation. And the ability of all the business to cope with it. It did not do that.

[Thai at Heart]

This wage increase has no benefit to anyone in the long term. As the labor costs go up, the factories must raise their prices on everything at every stage to compensate, hence the prices of everything needed to live peacefully also increase. Thailand has not been competitive with many other places in a long time, and this only exacerbates the situation.

No benefit to anyone in the long term ???

What planet are you from ?

Can you live on less than 300 baht per day ??

Export companies have many options,raise their prices or improve their efficiency or lower their profit expectation or put more pressure on their suppliers or join the real world in any combination thereof.

I own a manufacturing company and we are competitive in our industry with China, Phils and Vietnam in terms of FOB pricing and quality and we are ahead in terms of client service.

All my production staff make make more than the minimum 300 a day and I love it.

I can't see Honda pulling out of Thailand for this reason.

I truly hate the expat attitude of pennies for you and dollars for me.

And I run a business, not a charity.

The very fact you are all ready paying the 300 baht a day shows that you are running a very profitable business and have more room to move around than some of the smaller businesses.

Not every business is in a high profit category. You are one of the fortunate ones. How about the 7 11s with a 24 hour day and a large staff. You suggest that maybe they increase the staff productivity. Good plan. Then they can maintain the same standard of business with less employes. Ergo unemployment or raise their prices and create inflation.

I am quite sure in many of the larger businesses this will not be a problem. But for smaller ones it could be a huge problem. How about the farm hands do you think all the farmers will be able to stay in business when they have to pay 300 baht a day.

You are forgetting that you are in Thailand and trying to compare the Thai wage and style of life to the western one. To the average Thai until they were told they should get more money by Westerners things were fine. There is a difference in the cultures. If I was to buy a house that I liked the wife would hate it, to big she would say.

And one more thing about foreigners working here for more than there Thai counterparts they could make a lot more where they come from and I may be wrong but I don't think you are going to find many on production lines or behind the counter's in 7 11's or in the rice fields.

Don't get me wrong I agree that a raise was in order but it should have taken into consideration the unemployment and the inflation. And the ability of all the business to cope with it. It did not do that.

Dolly, and in fairness, and if 7 11 has ten employees and they are paid an extra 1500 baht a day combined, do you think that is unaffordable for an average 7 11.

I haven't researched the average daily revenue for a while, but but safe to say the margins that cp manages on its own products in there are enormous (how much u think a dumpling they sell for 20 baht costs).

Of all the companies to think of, or 7 11 is about the worst example. Their increased bill for ac and chillers or delivery trucks and distribution is probably going up more this year than wages.

[rubl]

If they don't pay the remaining provinces the 300 baht minimum wage in January, I will accept that they have blatantly lied. Otherwise, job done.

I think you put too much faith in believing the reason the PTP were voted into office as opposed to the democrat party was purely down to their promises of populist policies. The democrats have been known to "pimp their ride" with populist promises before election time

When Abhisit assumed office in December 2008, the global financial crisis had just erupted and begun to threaten Thailand's export-dependent economy. As unemployment rose and export businesses declined a result of the rising baht, weaker export demand and a series of floods, the government issued a number of freebies – some are extensions of what previous governments did, including free 15-year schooling (up from 12 years), extending free medical insurance, free electricity for the first 90 units, free water for the first 30 units, free rides on public buses for certain routes, and a THB500 monthly assistance for the elderly aged over 60..................

...................In December 2010, the government announced decisions to raise minimum wages of between THB8 and 17. While the move was not welcomed by business operators who are struggling to keep costs low to survive economic downturn, it was mostly hailed by other sectors of the general public. However, a plan to raise salaries of MPs and senators by 14 per cent was heavily criticised by even pro-Democrat supporters and media outlets.............................

..................................On the national level, this can lead to political parities competing for votes on the basis of who is giving more and better freebies. But with a new election looming, Thaksin's political games have moved into the mainstream.

The Democrat Party has gone from an acerbic critic as the opposition to a full-fledged proponent of populist measures.

Renowned columnist Suthichai Yoon has said

"If Thaksin Shinawatra had invented the modern-day populist platform, it seems that Abhisit Vejjajiva is even more determined to outdo him."

http://businessrepor...-populism-12442

As is widely known it doesn't seem to have made the democrats any more electable..............

I'm slightly confused here.

"The democrats have been known to "pimp their ride" with populist promises before election time"

followed by a few things the Democrats led government did. Does that mean the Democrats fulfilled their campaign promises? That's unfair, even under Thai rules, And look at the long list of items, not a single one seems to be aimed at deserving people

"the government issued a number of freebies – some are extensions of what previous governments did, including free 15-year schooling (up from 12 years), extending free medical insurance, free electricity for the first 90 units, free water for the first 30 units, free rides on public buses for certain routes, and a THB500 monthly assistance for the elderly aged over 60.............."

Shame on them. Didn't they know Thailand needs multi-billion Baht projects which are easier for the 35% rule? What were they thinking? I can only hope the current government which is truly endorse by the electorate has cancelled all these freebies which only seem to benefit poor people, old people, school going children, but not the people who choose them with an overwhelming mandate, the people who want 'Thaksin thinks, Pheu Thai acts' in a nicely, flowing down the river way as well!

[Buchholz]

Quote

the countrywide increase of the daily minimum wage to Bt300, tentatively scheduled for launch next January

Unquote.

Tentatively??

But the government promised ... not long after reneging on their original promise.

Didn't you hear, they didn't renege, they never promised to implement this policy when they took power, they promised to implement it at sometime between now and the end of time. The process of "phasing in" has begun and on these grounds, we can say it has all been a raring success!

Will you at least accept that this coming January, is on the face of it nearer the present day than "the end of time" unless of course you are a believer in the Mayan Phrophecy?

I don't recall the PTP "promised to implement it at sometime between now and the end of time" as part of their election policy so I'll just put that down to the usual hyperbole expressed by the frothers at any government action.

The hyperbole was expressed by the PTP and their forum acolyte foamers on its election promises.

The reality came AFTER the election, when on his first day in office, the dour Labor Minister would commit to only sometime between now and the end of time.

Posted 2011-08-18 05:54:45

Time frame unclear

Preparations are being made for the government's plan to honour the Pheu Thai Party's election promise to raise the daily minimum wage to Bt300, says Labour Minister Phadermchai Sasomsap.

However, he refused to provide any time frame for when the pay rise would take place.

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Edited September 6, 2012 by Buchholz

[webfact]

Wage hike will stimulate economy: expert

The Nation

BANGKOK: -- The increase in the daily minimum wage to Bt300 in another 70 provinces, which was approved on Tuesday and will go into effect on January 1 next year, will help stimulate consumption of domestic products and be beneficial to the economy in the long run, a Chulalongkorn University economics lecturer commented yesterday.

The hike would not affect employers or result in much higher costs, said Assoc Prof Narong Phetprasert.

"There is a wide misunderstanding that the hike will result in a 40-per-cent rise in production costs, but the figure is more likely to be 15 per cent on average," he said.

Businesses expected to be most affected by the hike are those in labour-intensive sectors such as textiles and furniture. Some of these, however, should be able to take advantage of government help to negotiate with neighbouring countries for incentives and assistance in relocating out of Thailand, said Narong.

"Those [Thai-owned] factories should be operated in Myanmar, Cambodia and Laos, hiring local workers under tax incentives and other investment-relevant benefits given by host countries," he added.

A Thailand Development Research Fund senior official, Yongyuth Chalaemwong, approved a minimum-wage hike in principle, but said it should be implemented step by step over a three-year period.

"Paying Bt300 to workers in 70 provinces [in addition to the seven already covered] at one time will abruptly and greatly burden employers, who as a result may have no choice but to opt for lay-offs or to give up their businesses.

"Increasing work efficiency through skills training will be an effective way to cope with unemployment in the long term, because it will help unskilled labourers extend their contracts, while those laid off will be able to get training and be re-hired quickly - there is still a lack of skilled labour," he added.

-- The Nation 2012-09-07

[theblether]

Welcome to the Alice in Wonderland school of economics

Watch inflation soar and competitiveness disappear.

I'm all for people getting a good wage but that comes from the company they work for, not from a central directive. Crazy stuff.

[phiphidon]

I'm slightly confused here.

"The democrats have been known to "pimp their ride" with populist promises before election time"

followed by a few things the Democrats led government did. Does that mean the Democrats fulfilled their campaign promises? That's unfair, even under Thai rules, And look at the long list of items, not a single one seems to be aimed at deserving people

"the government issued a number of freebies – some are extensions of what previous governments did, including free 15-year schooling (up from 12 years), extending free medical insurance, free electricity for the first 90 units, free water for the first 30 units, free rides on public buses for certain routes, and a THB500 monthly assistance for the elderly aged over 60.............."

Shame on them. Didn't they know Thailand needs multi-billion Baht projects which are easier for the 35% rule? What were they thinking? I can only hope the current government which is truly endorse by the electorate has cancelled all these freebies which only seem to benefit poor people, old people, school going children, but not the people who choose them with an overwhelming mandate, the people who want 'Thaksin thinks, Pheu Thai acts' in a nicely, flowing down the river way as well!

No need to be confused rubl, all you needed to do was read the link provided. If you had read the link you would have understood that the dems were going well down the populism route but as usual you're in denial,

"The premier has yet to announce when he will dissolve Parliament, but when he delivered the New Year presents many observers took a cue that house dissolution is near – probably as early as March – and that those nine populist measures are Hors d’œuvre of a full-course meal that will only be delivered if the Democrats are voted to power.

Critics have said all these “super-populist” measures are about giving out in large quantities rather than raising quality. There is no mention of improving academic performance of students at state schools where people receive free schooling. None are structural solutions designed to help the poor to stand on their own in the long run. True, the freebies help cut their expenditure on items that people normally have to pay themselves, but they do not help them earn more."

To make it even more easy for you I highlighted a quote by Suthachai Yoon (not a known Thaksin sympathiser by any means) which I reproduce and that sums up what you refuse to take on

"Renowned columnist Suthichai Yoon has said “If Thaksin Shinawatra had invented the modern-day populist platform, it seems that Abhisit Vejjajiva is even more determined to outdo him.”

You want 35% Rule Multi million baht projects ? How about the democrats trillion baht project that included the totally corruption free dust free roads project,

"Historic Investment under the “Thailand: Investing from Strength to Strength 2012” Project (07/09/2009)

The Government has announced a historic investment of 1.43 trillion baht, or 45 billion US dollarsThe investment package under this project covers seven major areas, consisting mainly of infrastructure development. The first area aims to bring about food and energy security, while preserving the environment and enhancing the efficiency of the agricultural and industrial sectors. It will increase irrigation areas from 9.8 million acres to about 12 million acres and reduce the number of flood sufferers from 400,000 to 40,000 on average." http://thailand.prd....404&type=inside

Not to mention the dems marathon last budget (Army well rewarded for their help in 2010 to the tune of 11-12 Billion baht) with 102 projects approved costing around 100 Billion Baht, and with Suthep having to deny the huge spend was populist spending to win votes.....................

[rubl]

"There is a wide misunderstanding that the hike will result in a 40-per-cent rise in production costs, but the figure is more likely to be 15 per cent on average," he said.

So, that why the gentleman spoke of 'be beneficial to the economy in the long run', although I'm not sure about 'will help stimulate consumption of domestic products'.

Somehow the Chula prof. seems to suggest we only have to look forward to a minor 15% price increase of locally produced products

[Thait Spot]

Wage hike will stimulate economy: expert

The Nation

BANGKOK: -- The increase in the daily minimum wage to Bt300 in another 70 provinces, which was approved on Tuesday and will go into effect on January 1 next year, will help stimulate consumption of domestic products and be beneficial to the economy in the long run, a Chulalongkorn University economics lecturer commented yesterday.

The hike would not affect employers or result in much higher costs, said Assoc Prof Narong Phetprasert.

"There is a wide misunderstanding that the hike will result in a 40-per-cent rise in production costs, but the figure is more likely to be 15 per cent on average," he said.

Businesses expected to be most affected by the hike are those in labour-intensive sectors such as textiles and furniture. Some of these, however, should be able to take advantage of government help to negotiate with neighbouring countries for incentives and assistance in relocating out of Thailand, said Narong.

"Those [Thai-owned] factories should be operated in Myanmar, Cambodia and Laos, hiring local workers under tax incentives and other investment-relevant benefits given by host countries," he added.

A Thailand Development Research Fund senior official, Yongyuth Chalaemwong, approved a minimum-wage hike in principle, but said it should be implemented step by step over a three-year period.

"Paying Bt300 to workers in 70 provinces [in addition to the seven already covered] at one time will abruptly and greatly burden employers, who as a result may have no choice but to opt for lay-offs or to give up their businesses.

"Increasing work efficiency through skills training will be an effective way to cope with unemployment in the long term, because it will help unskilled labourers extend their contracts, while those laid off will be able to get training and be re-hired quickly - there is still a lack of skilled labour," he added.

-- The Nation 2012-09-07

So, to paraphrase this denizon of fiscal discipline's academia , we can expect over 15% inflation, a sharp increase in unemployment and Thailand's neighbours to be laughing all the way to the bank.

This will be good for Thailand because it will stimulate the domestic economy? Screw the poor and the unemployed!