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Please Help With Visa Refused Australia Subclass 676


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or get maried in thailand and apply for partner visa 13month+ but during that time apply for tourist visa marrage is not too much on my mind cos dont know how we will b when together in normal life sercamstaces me at work her chilln at home.

also to add my case is has no merrit to appeal

Are you drinking or is your keyboard <deleted> ?

13 month + is that the waiting time for a married visa ? I know many in legitimate married relationships that had a via within a few weeks.

check the immigration website they advise waiting period for fiancé visa is 10 months partner visa 13+ that's what's been advised did ur mates get they'r partner after July?
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I suspect the OP came here for not only visa advice, but confirmation that he's doing the 'right' thing. He's received plenty of contrary advice, that he's about to be bent over and given a serve up the financial shorts, but he doesn't want to hear that, and that's OK.

I'll make a huge bet with myself right now, and that is when he is ****** over, he won't be back to say that those who said so were right.

I'm out too, but before I go, Mik83 you really have to do something about that childish, pre pubescent schoolgirl jargon/shorthand in which you write, as well as general spelling. It's tedious and boring at best, and downright stupid at worst, and at 29??!!.

Good luck in your pursuit of happiness, whatever that entails.

Couldn't have summed the situation up better F4UCorsair!!!

I too fear that it will end in tears but actually hope it doesn't and would love to be proved wrong - I just doubt it somehow, all things taken into account that it will be as there are too many factors working against you including your judgement, low sensibility level and the fact that you are living in "a world of unrealistic and unobtainable dreams" and have chosen to listen to and 'cherry pick' all of the advice and information that you like whilst disgarding everything else in such an extremely immature manner worthy of a 5 year old.

Good luck with your life though and I hope that you appear on a topic in 10 years time extolling the virtues of marrying a caring Thai lady and proving 'this idiot' Sichonsteve wrong (what did he know) rather than in 6 weeks time on a "how to get divorced from my Thai wife" decrying how she took you to the cleaners and swallowed you up and spat you out making you feel like a used tissue.

For your information - no!! I have never been through anything like that you are experiencing as I am not stupid and made a judgement on all of the aspects of the relationship pertinent to it being a successful one and have been happily married for 5 years with a flourishing business (private nursery/kindergarten school that my wife runs) whilst I retired 5 years ago at the age of 51. So no!!! my life didn't work out how you implied it might of, which is why I'm in a good position to give advice (that you asked for don't forget) to you!!!!!wai2.gif.

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I have to defend the op and agree with the mod.

Sorry SICHONSTEVE ... just not relative, your comments.

It's like a guy asking about the best wax for his motor ... and you telling him what tyre pressure to use.

Sure ... they are both about cars ... but hardly related.

He has declined the personal advice route ... happy in his situation ... so maybe some words of support and some solutions might be the most beneficial.

"He has declined the personal advice route ... happy in his situation ... so maybe some words of support and some solutions might be the most beneficial".

"He has declined the personal advice route" - you mean the advice that he dislikes or doesn't fit into his desired scenario model.

He is "happy in his situation" - really!!! he might think he is, but when it all comes tumbling down around his ears will this still be the same?

Offer up some "words of support and beneficial solutions" - I have done, but refer to the first sentence.

This is like (as you like analogy's) saying to the manager of Billericay Town due to face Manchester United in the FA cup at Old Trafford the coming Saturday with half your team out injured - don't worry!! I know thinks don't look good on paper but get your team to go out and try very hard and you never know, you might sneak it!! Oh!! If you break a few of their legs first and bribe the referee and assistant linesmans first this might help you in your determination to overcome what is 'just another football team'!!

Do you seriously think that Billericay town will be in the draw for the next round of the FA cup ready to face the next 'just another football team'???

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Back to the subject and no! I didn't not ask for help on my relationship just visa!!!

The details of the relationship are directly related to the reason why the visa was denied hence both are being commented on.

Good luck though.

Thank you for replying on my behalf - I can go and do something useful now!!!!

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It just seems unnecessarily harsh to me to deny someone the ability to just visit Australia on a holiday? It's not like she's trying to get in there as a resident.

If the only concern of the Australian government is that visitors will not return to their home country why don't they implement some sort of procedure where as a condition of being allowed to go, they must also agree to wear an electronic ankle bracelet throughout the period of their stay?

I can hear some people say no way this is Big Brother ! But if it's a choice between not going and being able to go I wonder how many people would volunteer to wear this kind of device in return for being allowed to go - on a short term visit only of course.

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Back to the subject and no! I didn't not ask for help on my relationship just visa!!!

The details of the relationship are directly related to the reason why the visa was denied hence both are being commented on.

Good luck though.

The Maine reason why the visa was denied is due to my own mistake of trying to say she's coming here for 4 months insted of 3 that's why the officer emailed her stating issue with visa app, second reason for her to return and thirdly not enough proof of relationship and that's cos we havnt been in a relationship long enough.

What does her taking me to the cleaners got to do with visa refused?

And like I said before any woman can do that Thai English Aussie

Now non related question how many people that posted here been devorced got half taken off them and decided to go to Thailand and find a Thai woman. I'm guessing there would be a fair few here JUST Guessing

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Back to the subject and no! I didn't not ask for help on my relationship just visa!!!

The details of the relationship are directly related to the reason why the visa was denied hence both are being commented on.

Good luck though.

Thank you for replying on my behalf - I can go and do something useful now!!!!

I thought u weren't posting anymore 5 replys ago but ur still here hmmm
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Back to the subject and no! I didn't not ask for help on my relationship just visa!!!

The details of the relationship are directly related to the reason why the visa was denied hence both are being commented on.

Good luck though.

Thank you for replying on my behalf - I can go and do something useful now!!!!

I thought u weren't posting anymore 5 replys ago but ur still here hmmm

Just defending myself against yours and others meek responses - also, I'm having fun viewing your replies.

"Now non related question how many people that posted here been devorced got half taken off them and decided to go to Thailand and find a Thai woman. I'm guessing there would be a fair few here JUST Guessing"

In my case you are guessing as I waited until I found the right woman before getting married, so at the age of 51 I finally took the plunge!!!

I actually wouldn't marry a 'farang' because I couldn't trust them as they have become too independant in my eyes (I've got nothing against this but I am just saying that it takes them out of the equation as far as I'm concerned) and before you say I'm sexist, I'm the least sexist person on the planet as I'm a strong advocate of equality in every walk of life - its the 'trust thing' that I cannot, and do not want to accept. I doubt very much that you can see the irony in this!!!

Anyway, keep me updated on your situation (on attempting to get a visa and not your personal life as I 'get' the situation here) - maybe I will never hear of you againclap2.gif.

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Mik83, since my last post above I have looked at a few websites from USA and Canada and it seemsthe immigration department's of those two countries are now becoming much more innovative in their use of these electronic devices and similarly with the conditions relating to foreigners seeking to stay in those two countries before their status has been resolved.

If you are at your wits end about this matter, why not try absolutely everything – I would have thought you have nothing to lose by asking? It would also confirm that Australian immigration is genuine about the reasons for their refusal?

This is only an idea but why not contact the immigration officer you have been in touch with and say you want this to happen so much you will try anything to convince them that she will return to Thailand. Propose to them that you will pay all the costs associated with a private security company fitting her with a GPS electronic ankle bracelet when she arrives at the airport if they grant the visa to her ? I am sure immigration don't have the time or resources to do this kind of work themselves but maybe they would agree to the somewhat like G4S or Securicor undertaking the role during her visit as long as it doesn't cost the immigration Department any money?

I am not saying they would agree but at least it shows you are trying think of every way that you can get her there and that she will leave at the end of the visa ?

details here

Edited by Asiantravel
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Mik83, since my last post above I have looked at a few websites from USA and Canada and it seemsthe immigration department's of those two countries are now becoming much more innovative in their use of these electronic devices and similarly with the conditions relating to foreigners seeking to stay in those two countries before their status has been resolved.

If you are at your wits end about this matter, why not try absolutely everything – I would have thought you have nothing to lose by asking? It would also confirm that Australian immigration is genuine about the reasons for their refusal?

This is only an idea but why not contact the immigration officer you have been in touch with and say you want this to happen so much you will try anything to convince them that she will return to Thailand. Propose to them that you will pay all the costs associated with a private security company fitting her with a GPS electronic ankle bracelet when she arrives at the airport if they grant the visa to her ? I am sure immigration don't have the time or resources to do this kind of work themselves but maybe they would agree to the somewhat like G4S or Securicor undertaking the role during her visit as long as it doesn't cost the immigration Department any money?

I am not saying they would agree but at least it shows you are trying think of every way that you can get her there and that she will leave at the end of the visa ?

details here

In Thailand??? You must be kidding.

Besides, would you trust a company like G4S to take care of this? Have they got any employees left?? or maybe they will attempt to recruit somebody specifically for Mik83's benefit!!!!cheesy.gifcheesy.gif

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What does her taking me to the cleaners got to do with visa refused?

Your embassy is trying to protect you!wai.gif

I don't think the embassy give two shits about him but mores illegal immigrants, the lady in question could not prove should had reason to leave the country so the visa was declined.

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Mik83, since my last post above I have looked at a few websites from USA and Canada and it seemsthe immigration department's of those two countries are now becoming much more innovative in their use of these electronic devices and similarly with the conditions relating to foreigners seeking to stay in those two countries before their status has been resolved.

If you are at your wits end about this matter, why not try absolutely everything – I would have thought you have nothing to lose by asking? It would also confirm that Australian immigration is genuine about the reasons for their refusal?

This is only an idea but why not contact the immigration officer you have been in touch with and say you want this to happen so much you will try anything to convince them that she will return to Thailand. Propose to them that you will pay all the costs associated with a private security company fitting her with a GPS electronic ankle bracelet when she arrives at the airport if they grant the visa to her ? I am sure immigration don't have the time or resources to do this kind of work themselves but maybe they would agree to the somewhat like G4S or Securicor undertaking the role during her visit as long as it doesn't cost the immigration Department any money?

I am not saying they would agree but at least it shows you are trying think of every way that you can get her there and that she will leave at the end of the visa ?

details here

In Thailand??? You must be kidding.

Besides, would you trust a company like G4S to take care of this? Have they got any employees left?? or maybe they will attempt to recruit somebody specifically for Mik83's benefit!!!!cheesy.gifcheesy.gif

What's Thailand got to do with it? We are talking about a consular official at the Australian Embassy possibly agreeing to visa conditions in Australia?

And I'm not specifying G4S - I'm just giving them as an example.

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Mik83, since my last post above I have looked at a few websites from USA and Canada and it seemsthe immigration department's of those two countries are now becoming much more innovative in their use of these electronic devices and similarly with the conditions relating to foreigners seeking to stay in those two countries before their status has been resolved.

If you are at your wits end about this matter, why not try absolutely everything – I would have thought you have nothing to lose by asking? It would also confirm that Australian immigration is genuine about the reasons for their refusal?

This is only an idea but why not contact the immigration officer you have been in touch with and say you want this to happen so much you will try anything to convince them that she will return to Thailand. Propose to them that you will pay all the costs associated with a private security company fitting her with a GPS electronic ankle bracelet when she arrives at the airport if they grant the visa to her ? I am sure immigration don't have the time or resources to do this kind of work themselves but maybe they would agree to the somewhat like G4S or Securicor undertaking the role during her visit as long as it doesn't cost the immigration Department any money?

I am not saying they would agree but at least it shows you are trying think of every way that you can get her there and that she will leave at the end of the visa ?

details here

In Thailand??? You must be kidding.

Besides, would you trust a company like G4S to take care of this? Have they got any employees left?? or maybe they will attempt to recruit somebody specifically for Mik83's benefit!!!!cheesy.gifcheesy.gif

What's Thailand got to do with it? We are talking about a consular official at the Australian Embassy possibly agreeing to visa conditions in Australia?

And I'm not specifying G4S - I'm just giving them as an example.

I don't care whether its Thailand, Australia or Outer Mongolia - it just will not happen as his justification for a case to get her to visit him in Thailand is so flimsy, weak and a non-starter whether she was hand-cuffed to a police officer or they held her family ransom in The Bangkok Hilton just to make sure she didn't abscond!!!!

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Mik83, since my last post above I have looked at a few websites from USA and Canada and it seemsthe immigration department's of those two countries are now becoming much more innovative in their use of these electronic devices and similarly with the conditions relating to foreigners seeking to stay in those two countries before their status has been resolved.

If you are at your wits end about this matter, why not try absolutely everything – I would have thought you have nothing to lose by asking? It would also confirm that Australian immigration is genuine about the reasons for their refusal?

This is only an idea but why not contact the immigration officer you have been in touch with and say you want this to happen so much you will try anything to convince them that she will return to Thailand. Propose to them that you will pay all the costs associated with a private security company fitting her with a GPS electronic ankle bracelet when she arrives at the airport if they grant the visa to her ? I am sure immigration don't have the time or resources to do this kind of work themselves but maybe they would agree to the somewhat like G4S or Securicor undertaking the role during her visit as long as it doesn't cost the immigration Department any money?

I am not saying they would agree but at least it shows you are trying think of every way that you can get her there and that she will leave at the end of the visa ?

details here

Yes I agree.

And if said person doesn't go home by the due date, Immigration can "activate"

the bracelet and blow them up.

Seriously mate, your 3 posts on this thread are some of the wierdest I have ever read.

I was having a giggle until I realised that you were serious.

Regards

Will

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The question of wearing a 'security' bracelet is really quite irrelevant. Finding a person is easy, even without a tracking device, but the Australian government has discovered that with left wing, bleeding heart lawyers, getting rid of people we don't want is yet another thing entirely.

It's a little like that question, "What's the most difficult thing in the world to do?". Get money from somebody who doesn't want to give it (back) to you. Unloading people we don't want here is proving to be a multi billion $$ headache, and the last thing this country needs is even one more, so minimizing the risk isn't a bad way to go.

The risk of her not going may be small, but it's zero if she's not here.

Edited by F4UCorsair
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Mik83, since my last post above I have looked at a few websites from USA and Canada and it seemsthe immigration department's of those two countries are now becoming much more innovative in their use of these electronic devices and similarly with the conditions relating to foreigners seeking to stay in those two countries before their status has been resolved.

If you are at your wits end about this matter, why not try absolutely everything – I would have thought you have nothing to lose by asking? It would also confirm that Australian immigration is genuine about the reasons for their refusal?

This is only an idea but why not contact the immigration officer you have been in touch with and say you want this to happen so much you will try anything to convince them that she will return to Thailand. Propose to them that you will pay all the costs associated with a private security company fitting her with a GPS electronic ankle bracelet when she arrives at the airport if they grant the visa to her ? I am sure immigration don't have the time or resources to do this kind of work themselves but maybe they would agree to the somewhat like G4S or Securicor undertaking the role during her visit as long as it doesn't cost the immigration Department any money?

I am not saying they would agree but at least it shows you are trying think of every way that you can get her there and that she will leave at the end of the visa ?

details here

Yes I agree.

And if said person doesn't go home by the due date, Immigration can "activate"

the bracelet and blow them up.

Seriously mate, your 3 posts on this thread are some of the wierdest I have ever read.

I was having a giggle until I realised that you were serious.

Regards

Will

Still, this is the type of advice he was seeking - keep them coming as I'm just getting back into swing of it after declaring that I was done on this!!!

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The question of wearing a 'security' bracelet is really quite irrelevant. Finding a person is easy, even without a tracking device, but the Australian government has discovered that with left wing, bleeding heart lawyers, getting rid of people we don't want is yet another thing entirely.

It's a little like that question, "What's the most difficult thing in the world to do?". Get money from somebody who doesn't want to give it (back) to you. Unloading people we don't want here is proving a billion $$ headache, and the last thing this country needs is even one more, and minimizing the risk isn't a bad way to go.

.......But surely they should make an exception for Mik83 as his 'heart is bleeding' and he is suicide watch.

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I think the OP is pretty much "clued up" why the visa was refused.

Basically, been in a relationship for 5 minutes and requested a 4 month visa.

I know having a reason to return home is a big issue for DIAC but

it's not the only one.

There are loads of (predominately) Asian woman working illegally

on Tourist visa's in Oz. The break up is mainly Hong Kong and Sth

Koreans as they can get electronic visa's (S/C976). a large percentage

work on student visa's but are technically allowed to work anyway.

So woman, who shall we say may appear to have worked in the "industry"

are subject to say more scrutiny than a woman working in a 7/11.

I don't know the stats on Thai's on tourist visa's but I'd suspect more would

work illegally on their visa's than actually overstay.

But having said that, if a good application is presented, more often than not

the visa will be granted. As stated previously, the Oz embassy approves approx

95% of tourist visa applications.

And when shot posted above "Your embassy is trying to protect you" he wasn't joking.

They see it all of the time. A guy goes to thailand for 2 weeks and meets the "love of his life"

and wants to bring her back to Oz. That's why DIAC have a "guideline of 6 months", but it is a

guideline only.

I'm sure the OP will have greater success when his girlfriend re-applies next year.

Regards

Will

Edited by Will27
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Mik83, since my last post above I have looked at a few websites from USA and Canada and it seemsthe immigration department's of those two countries are now becoming much more innovative in their use of these electronic devices and similarly with the conditions relating to foreigners seeking to stay in those two countries before their status has been resolved.

If you are at your wits end about this matter, why not try absolutely everything – I would have thought you have nothing to lose by asking? It would also confirm that Australian immigration is genuine about the reasons for their refusal?

This is only an idea but why not contact the immigration officer you have been in touch with and say you want this to happen so much you will try anything to convince them that she will return to Thailand. Propose to them that you will pay all the costs associated with a private security company fitting her with a GPS electronic ankle bracelet when she arrives at the airport if they grant the visa to her ? I am sure immigration don't have the time or resources to do this kind of work themselves but maybe they would agree to the somewhat like G4S or Securicor undertaking the role during her visit as long as it doesn't cost the immigration Department any money?

I am not saying they would agree but at least it shows you are trying think of every way that you can get her there and that she will leave at the end of the visa ?

details here

Yes I agree.

And if said person doesn't go home by the due date, Immigration can "activate"

the bracelet and blow them up.

Seriously mate, your 3 posts on this thread are some of the wierdest I have ever read.

I was having a giggle until I realised that you were serious.

Regards

Will

that doesnt worry me in the slighest....smile.png

I made a lot of money by not thinking the same way as the " crowd " doeswhistling.gif

Edited by Asiantravel
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Mik83, since my last post above I have looked at a few websites from USA and Canada and it seemsthe immigration department's of those two countries are now becoming much more innovative in their use of these electronic devices and similarly with the conditions relating to foreigners seeking to stay in those two countries before their status has been resolved.

If you are at your wits end about this matter, why not try absolutely everything – I would have thought you have nothing to lose by asking? It would also confirm that Australian immigration is genuine about the reasons for their refusal?

This is only an idea but why not contact the immigration officer you have been in touch with and say you want this to happen so much you will try anything to convince them that she will return to Thailand. Propose to them that you will pay all the costs associated with a private security company fitting her with a GPS electronic ankle bracelet when she arrives at the airport if they grant the visa to her ? I am sure immigration don't have the time or resources to do this kind of work themselves but maybe they would agree to the somewhat like G4S or Securicor undertaking the role during her visit as long as it doesn't cost the immigration Department any money?

I am not saying they would agree but at least it shows you are trying think of every way that you can get her there and that she will leave at the end of the visa ?

details here

Yes I agree.

And if said person doesn't go home by the due date, Immigration can "activate"

the bracelet and blow them up.

Seriously mate, your 3 posts on this thread are some of the wierdest I have ever read.

I was having a giggle until I realised that you were serious.

Regards

Will

that doesnt worry me in the slighest....smile.png

I made a lot of money by not thinking the same way as the " crowd " doeswhistling.gif

You could get a job in the Thai 'think tank' for policy development as you are perfectly qualified with block buster ideas like these!!!

They are just the type of thing this Thai government is looking for - you weren't the brains behind the rice pledging scheme were you??

Perhaps you ARE Thaksin retorting under an alias on TV!!!

My god, I might be responding to Thaksin - what a terrible thought!!!

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The matching tattoos would be more evidence she intended to stay IMO.

a tatoo on the bottom ?

I LOVE NEW YORK .

when i asked the darling about this tatoo

she said it was a typoo,

should have been , i love OZ./ LONDON/ TOKYO,

who ever is in losgs.

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Mik83, since my last post above I have looked at a few websites from USA and Canada and it seemsthe immigration department's of those two countries are now becoming much more innovative in their use of these electronic devices and similarly with the conditions relating to foreigners seeking to stay in those two countries before their status has been resolved.

If you are at your wits end about this matter, why not try absolutely everything – I would have thought you have nothing to lose by asking? It would also confirm that Australian immigration is genuine about the reasons for their refusal?

This is only an idea but why not contact the immigration officer you have been in touch with and say you want this to happen so much you will try anything to convince them that she will return to Thailand. Propose to them that you will pay all the costs associated with a private security company fitting her with a GPS electronic ankle bracelet when she arrives at the airport if they grant the visa to her ? I am sure immigration don't have the time or resources to do this kind of work themselves but maybe they would agree to the somewhat like G4S or Securicor undertaking the role during her visit as long as it doesn't cost the immigration Department any money?

I am not saying they would agree but at least it shows you are trying think of every way that you can get her there and that she will leave at the end of the visa ?

details here

Yes I agree.

And if said person doesn't go home by the due date, Immigration can "activate"

the bracelet and blow them up.

Seriously mate, your 3 posts on this thread are some of the wierdest I have ever read.

I was having a giggle until I realised that you were serious.

Regards

Will

that doesnt worry me in the slighest....smile.png

I made a lot of money by not thinking the same way as the " crowd " doeswhistling.gif

You could get a job in the Thai 'think tank' for policy development as you are perfectly qualified with block buster ideas like these!!!

They are just the type of thing this Thai government is looking for - you weren't the brains behind the rice pledging scheme were you??

Perhaps you ARE Thaksin retorting under an alias on TV!!!

My god, I might be responding to Thaksin - what a terrible thought!!!

Canada is already looking to introduce this system for asylum seekers.

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she has to have income or some sort of property to get as tourist visa to Australia , they are very strict on this , and if you apply for a visa in melbourne ask for a fiance visa and they give you 9 months to marry her , if she gets it. they tend to give these visa's more.Ask her to put some property in her name from parents to get a letter from her employer (wink ) and this will help .

but really come here for one day and then want to marry her .. are you thinking with the right head

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Mik83, since my last post above I have looked at a few websites from USA and Canada and it seemsthe immigration department's of those two countries are now becoming much more innovative in their use of these electronic devices and similarly with the conditions relating to foreigners seeking to stay in those two countries before their status has been resolved.

If you are at your wits end about this matter, why not try absolutely everything – I would have thought you have nothing to lose by asking? It would also confirm that Australian immigration is genuine about the reasons for their refusal?

This is only an idea but why not contact the immigration officer you have been in touch with and say you want this to happen so much you will try anything to convince them that she will return to Thailand. Propose to them that you will pay all the costs associated with a private security company fitting her with a GPS electronic ankle bracelet when she arrives at the airport if they grant the visa to her ? I am sure immigration don't have the time or resources to do this kind of work themselves but maybe they would agree to the somewhat like G4S or Securicor undertaking the role during her visit as long as it doesn't cost the immigration Department any money?

I am not saying they would agree but at least it shows you are trying think of every way that you can get her there and that she will leave at the end of the visa ?

details here

Yes I agree.

And if said person doesn't go home by the due date, Immigration can "activate"

the bracelet and blow them up.

Seriously mate, your 3 posts on this thread are some of the wierdest I have ever read.

I was having a giggle until I realised that you were serious.

Regards

Will

that doesnt worry me in the slighest....smile.png

I made a lot of money by not thinking the same way as the " crowd " doeswhistling.gif

You could get a job in the Thai 'think tank' for policy development as you are perfectly qualified with block buster ideas like these!!!

They are just the type of thing this Thai government is looking for - you weren't the brains behind the rice pledging scheme were you??

Perhaps you ARE Thaksin retorting under an alias on TV!!!

My god, I might be responding to Thaksin - what a terrible thought!!!

Do you also also disagree with Daryl Melham, the head of a parliamentary committee on detention in Australia ?

REFUGEES deemed security threats should be able to live in the community on control orders or wearing electronic monitoring devices, a senior Labor MP has urged.

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Asiantravel said]

Do you also also disagree with Daryl Melham, the head of a parliamentary committee on detention in Australia ?

REFUGEES deemed security threats should be able to live in the community on control orders or wearing electronic monitoring devices, a senior Labor MP has urged.

http://www.theaustra...o-1226246851479

You are trying to compare apples with oranges here.

For a start, Canada was talking about Failed Asylum Claimants.

Many who have failed security checks.

And Daryl Melham is talking about asylum-seekers who have been

found to be both refugees and threats to national security and are currently

in detention.

Surely you're not trying to compare those two issues with

a Thai who wants to go to Australia for a holiday??

Regards

Will

Edited by Will27
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