Baby, Teachers Among Six Dead In Thai Shootings

[FarangTalk]

Interesting to note than in the year following the coup, the numbers of deaths in the South doubled, as the situation spiraled out of control.

Total deaths so far exceed 5000.

[simple1]

Why's the UN or the USA not getting involved here..?? Of course, no benefit for them at all..!!

The Forgotten War - Shameful..!!

because the Thai government has rejected approaches for assistance from the UN. Thai military does train with US forces

[Briggsy]

Who knows who carried out this attack? It could have been one of the government-funded and government-armed village militias. It could have been separatist groups. It could have been the border police, the list goes on.

There is little in the way of accurate reporting on this long-running conflict.

[kevvy]

I am so sick of hearing them for the past umpteen months and every other day that too, saying "Security being tightened" ....WTH.... This is just totally insane and all the Government cronies , Army & Police and whatever should all be ashamed of themselves for not having this under control by now... No! of course not ... Many much more important things to do ..... Indict each other, rewrite the constitution, Get Mr. T back into Thailand, stop the investigation into the Rice Scam etc...It's totally sickening and here again the Thais just sit back and keep quiet .. Amazing Thailand for sure ...

he was a bigger killer you are joking right amazing you ...

[kevvy]

Why's the UN or the USA not getting involved here..?? Of course, no benefit for them at all..!!

The Forgotten War - Shameful..!!

maybe if there was oil here the USA would come .. not maybe for sure

[metisdead]

A post commenting on moderation has been removed.

[kevvy]

This is getting rediciouls now.

now!!!! where have you been for the last 10 years

[HHBM]

...and a tangential tragedy of sorts is how desensitized we can become to these attacks.

[kevvy]

The answers on this thread show already how difficult a solution will be or is.

Especially in a country, where "dialogue" is something you may find in a movie, but sure not in the heads of politicians and the military.

And as long as it "only" happens far south (meaning: far away from the tourist hot- spots or Bangkok) even the global- community does not notice and will not put pressure on Thailand to solve the problem.

I am afraid, we "need" a hundred or more dead tourists, before anyone really wakes up to the problem.

Unless that happens, it is "only" some poor teachers or farmers...or babies in an "uncivilized" part of a partly uncivilized country.

It will get worse before us gets better. With terrorism it always does. Give an inch and they take 100 miles because they play by a different set of rules than civilized societies.

how much worst does it have to get , now killing babies... i agree with you they will take the extra miles , the government does nothing , just send ban aides to try and fix it , but if you have a march against the government they get 20,000 police right away . how long would this go on for if they send the same down south to fix the problem

[nakhonandy]

The only thing they need to do is send down intelligence specialists and special forces.

Sending a largely untrained army in numbers won't help at all.

Sent from my HTC Wildfire using Thaivisa Connect App

[DocN]

The answers on this thread show already how difficult a solution will be or is.

Especially in a country, where "dialogue" is something you may find in a movie, but sure not in the heads of politicians and the military.

And as long as it "only" happens far south (meaning: far away from the tourist hot- spots or Bangkok) even the global- community does not notice and will not put pressure on Thailand to solve the problem.

I am afraid, we "need" a hundred or more dead tourists, before anyone really wakes up to the problem.

Unless that happens, it is "only" some poor teachers or farmers...or babies in an "uncivilized" part of a partly uncivilized country.

It will get worse before us gets better. With terrorism it always does. Give an inch and they take 100 miles because they play by a different set of rules than civilized societies.

how much worst does it have to get , now killing babies... i agree with you they will take the extra miles , the government does nothing , just send ban aides to try and fix it , but if you have a march against the government they get 20,000 police right away . how long would this go on for if they send the same down south to fix the problem

The one thing has NOTHING to do with the other?

What is your solution?

Just go there and shoot everyone at sight?

[F430murci]

The answers on this thread show already how difficult a solution will be or is.

Especially in a country, where "dialogue" is something you may find in a movie, but sure not in the heads of politicians and the military.

And as long as it "only" happens far south (meaning: far away from the tourist hot- spots or Bangkok) even the global- community does not notice and will not put pressure on Thailand to solve the problem.

I am afraid, we "need" a hundred or more dead tourists, before anyone really wakes up to the problem.

Unless that happens, it is "only" some poor teachers or farmers...or babies in an "uncivilized" part of a partly uncivilized country.

It will get worse before us gets better. With terrorism it always does. Give an inch and they take 100 miles because they play by a different set of rules than civilized societies.

how much worst does it have to get , now killing babies... i agree with you they will take the extra miles , the government does nothing , just send ban aides to try and fix it , but if you have a march against the government they get 20,000 police right away . how long would this go on for if they send the same down south to fix the problem

The problem seems to be that general Thai population nether have the stomach nor resolve to do what it will take to eradicate the terrorism. The measures will be ugly and heavily politicized like Tak Bai. The terrorist are deeply blended in and supported by communities. You take a few out and whole communities will cry foul saying they were just farmers and etc. Look what America has had to do to stop terrorism on it's soils. Those suspected of terrorists plotting or activitiy in US are placed in solitary hell, a fate worse than death. Things like that suck, but do have deterrent value. The US takes out targets based on good intel with drones yet political polarization and human rights groups cry foul or condemn actions as extrajudicial killings. Unfortunately, the past has taught us that half measures lead to increased terrorist activity. Only a full on frontal decisive and persistent assault on the situation has any long term deterrent value. As soon as Yingluck acts with force down there, Abhisit et al and his supporters in here will be quick to condemn or call for charges of various nature. The Thai government must join rank here and back the decision 100%, but seems that the politicians are still too polarized and caught up in personal conflict to do what it takes to solve a problem like this.

Edited December 12, 2012 by F430murci

[Fozfromoz]

Time to send in the army and just blow them all away, this is bullshit, killing innocent people in the name of your god, what a load of crap.

How about starting to punish some Thai generals for the Takbae incident?How about starting to accept the religion,culture and history of those"terrorists"The Thai education system teaches only about history of Thailand,Bangkok,the Thais just ignore everything.The local language in the south is yawee[a malay dialect]they are forcing the kids to speak thai and learn about thai culture only..They force muslims to say buddhist prayers and wear thai style clothes.These are the reasons why school get burned down or teachers get killed.They force them to change their names in thai sounding names.

Army or poilice come at night into muslim houses and take the sons away.Army and police torture them and kill them.Neevr anybody of army or police got punished for their doing.They building buddhist temples in predominantly muslim areas.They let muslims bow in front of buddha statues or pictures of the king,which is an offence to their religion,the army searches muslim houses with dogs,just to insult the muslim religion.

You will not build peace as long politicians,police and army go free for their state crimes.

I'm non religious,but thought some facts should be said

Facts - you have proof of all this? Wow - CNN, Fox new etc will be keen to talk with you.

One man's terrortist is another man's freedom fighter. Depends on your point of view. However, anyone who fires indiscriminatly at unarmed people, including children and old people, and who kill based on relgion and ethnic grounds are scumbags who deserve to be executed as quickly as possible.

If not sooner.

[simple1]

The answers on this thread show already how difficult a solution will be or is.

Especially in a country, where "dialogue" is something you may find in a movie, but sure not in the heads of politicians and the military.

And as long as it "only" happens far south (meaning: far away from the tourist hot- spots or Bangkok) even the global- community does not notice and will not put pressure on Thailand to solve the problem.

I am afraid, we "need" a hundred or more dead tourists, before anyone really wakes up to the problem.

Unless that happens, it is "only" some poor teachers or farmers...or babies in an "uncivilized" part of a partly uncivilized country.

It will get worse before us gets better. With terrorism it always does. Give an inch and they take 100 miles because they play by a different set of rules than civilized societies.

how much worst does it have to get , now killing babies... i agree with you they will take the extra miles , the government does nothing , just send ban aides to try and fix it , but if you have a march against the government they get 20,000 police right away . how long would this go on for if they send the same down south to fix the problem

The problem seems to be that general Thai population nether have the stomach nor resolve to do what it will take to eradicate the terrorism. The measures will be ugly and heavily politicized like Tak Bai. The terrorist are deeply blended in and supported by communities. You take a few out and whole communities will cry foul saying they were just farmers and etc. Look what America has had to do to stop terrorism on it's soils. Those suspected of terrorists plotting or activitiy in US are placed in solitary hell, a fate worse than death. Things like that suck, but do have deterrent value. The US takes out targets based on good intel with drones yet political polarization and human rights groups cry foul or condemn actions as extrajudicial killings. Unfortunately, the past has taught us that half measures lead to increased terrorist activity. Only a full on frontal decisive and persistent assault on the situation has any long term deterrent value. As soon as Yingluck acts with force down there, Abhisit et al and his supporters in here will be quick to condemn or call for charges of various nature. The Thai government must join rank here and back the decision 100%, but seems that the politicians are still too polarized and caught up in personal conflict to do what it takes to solve a problem like this.

You have overlooked the military act in their own right. Thailand is not a western democracy where the armed forces only act on political orders.

[F430murci]

It will get worse before us gets better. With terrorism it always does. Give an inch and they take 100 miles because they play by a different set of rules than civilized societies.

how much worst does it have to get , now killing babies... i agree with you they will take the extra miles , the government does nothing , just send ban aides to try and fix it , but if you have a march against the government they get 20,000 police right away . how long would this go on for if they send the same down south to fix the problem

The problem seems to be that general Thai population nether have the stomach nor resolve to do what it will take to eradicate the terrorism. The measures will be ugly and heavily politicized like Tak Bai. The terrorist are deeply blended in and supported by communities. You take a few out and whole communities will cry foul saying they were just farmers and etc. Look what America has had to do to stop terrorism on it's soils. Those suspected of terrorists plotting or activitiy in US are placed in solitary hell, a fate worse than death. Things like that suck, but do have deterrent value. The US takes out targets based on good intel with drones yet political polarization and human rights groups cry foul or condemn actions as extrajudicial killings. Unfortunately, the past has taught us that half measures lead to increased terrorist activity. Only a full on frontal decisive and persistent assault on the situation has any long term deterrent value. As soon as Yingluck acts with force down there, Abhisit et al and his supporters in here will be quick to condemn or call for charges of various nature. The Thai government must join rank here and back the decision 100%, but seems that the politicians are still too polarized and caught up in personal conflict to do what it takes to solve a problem like this.

You have overlooked the military act in their own right. Thailand is not a western democracy where the armed forces only act on political orders.

Perhaps if politicians did something other than worry about themselves and find ways to smear other side and be devicive, then there could be a joint resolve to accomplish what needs to be done. You are just reinforcing the mentality and excuses to perpetuates problem. Accordingly, it will get worse before it gets better and it may even get completely out of control. The situation is somewhat manageable right now if stop with the autonomy bs, political polarization and all the dam_n excuses. Thailand always has the excuses . . .

[brianP]

Some elite death squads of international flavor with proper priming of intelligence and a list of names sent to the south and sort them out. The captured ones can be put in a Guantanamo bay type place and all info extracted, would jump start the phase 2 operation, the world is doing nothing about the present situation, would they intercede if counter-counter terrorists were sent after the Evil satan bastards???

[punisher]

Time to send in the army and just blow them all away, this is bullshit, killing innocent people in the name of your god, what a load of crap.

How about starting to punish some Thai generals for the Takbae incident?How about starting to accept the religion,culture and history of those"terrorists"The Thai education system teaches only about history of Thailand,Bangkok,the Thais just ignore everything.The local language in the south is yawee[a malay dialect]they are forcing the kids to speak thai and learn about thai culture only..They force muslims to say buddhist prayers and wear thai style clothes.These are the reasons why school get burned down or teachers get killed.They force them to change their names in thai sounding names.

Army or poilice come at night into muslim houses and take the sons away.Army and police torture them and kill them.Neevr anybody of army or police got punished for their doing.They building buddhist temples in predominantly muslim areas.They let muslims bow in front of buddha statues or pictures of the king,which is an offence to their religion,the army searches muslim houses with dogs,just to insult the muslim religion.

You will not build peace as long politicians,police and army go free for their state crimes.

I'm non religious,but thought some facts should be said

Your statement about muslims having to pray to buddha is a disgusting lie and you know it !!!! And will it it hurt you to kneel in front of the picture of the monarch which is normal in most monarchies?

And muslims have all the opportunity to practice their religion,while many muslims does the most to prevent buddhist doing the same.

Both sides off the conflict must give some way or another,as for the idea to give these 3 regions autonomy or selv goverment.............if any idea ever was dead borned,this is and will never happen !!

I am not a muslim,I am not religious,so I don't knee in front of any god and sure not in front of any king.Anyway if you think I talk bs,then why not have a look by yourself in Pattani or Yala,or google a bit

[remobb]

Can you remember Northern Ireland? How about taking a leaf out of their book and start road blocks in and out of towns, searching ALL vehicles for arms etc. Are they worried about the cost??? Is money more important than life???

[Yahooka]

Time to send in the army and just blow them all away, this is bullshit, killing innocent people in the name of your god, what a load of crap.

How about starting to punish some Thai generals for the Takbae incident?How about starting to accept the religion,culture and history of those"terrorists"The Thai education system teaches only about history of Thailand,Bangkok,the Thais just ignore everything.The local language in the south is yawee[a malay dialect]they are forcing the kids to speak thai and learn about thai culture only..They force muslims to say buddhist prayers and wear thai style clothes.These are the reasons why school get burned down or teachers get killed.They force them to change their names in thai sounding names.

Army or poilice come at night into muslim houses and take the sons away.Army and police torture them and kill them.Neevr anybody of army or police got punished for their doing.They building buddhist temples in predominantly muslim areas.They let muslims bow in front of buddha statues or pictures of the king,which is an offence to their religion,the army searches muslim houses with dogs,just to insult the muslim religion.

You will not build peace as long politicians,police and army go free for their state crimes.

I'm non religious,but thought some facts should be said

Your statement about muslims having to pray to buddha is a disgusting lie and you know it !!!! And will it it hurt you to kneel in front of the picture of the monarch which is normal in most monarchies?

And muslims have all the opportunity to practice their religion,while many muslims does the most to prevent buddhist doing the same.

Both sides off the conflict must give some way or another,as for the idea to give these 3 regions autonomy or selv goverment.............if any idea ever was dead borned,this is and will never happen !!

I am not a muslim,I am not religious,so I don't knee in front of any god and sure not in front of any king.Anyway if you think I talk bs,then why not have a look by yourself in Pattani or Yala,or google a bit

Been to Yala,but have never seen or heard of muslims being forced to pray in front of buddhist symbols or munks,or neither have I heard about them being forced to dress like Thais.On the contrary the Thai buddhist bend over backwards (as we do in the West) not to make offence on the muslim "sensitivity ".........they now(as do we) if you don`t all hell will off course break loose !!!

Edited December 12, 2012 by Yahooka

[chooka]

I think every country or religion has tried to bend over backwards to accept the muslim lifestyle into thier culture or way of life but enough is never enough. It will only only be when the entire world gives into Islam 100% and accepts the culture and religion that we will have peace on earth. What is the chance of that? Zero.

[philw]

Can you remember Northern Ireland? How about taking a leaf out of their book and start road blocks in and out of towns, searching ALL vehicles for arms etc. Are they worried about the cost??? Is money more important than life???

It didn't work, did it ???

The only solution is a political solution which means bringing people to table, talking, addressing the problems and treating people like people.

Much as many on here won't like it, military force generates military counterforce and ever more resentment.

Treat people like people and you may start getting a result.

[F430murci]

Can you remember Northern Ireland? How about taking a leaf out of their book and start road blocks in and out of towns, searching ALL vehicles for arms etc. Are they worried about the cost??? Is money more important than life???

It didn't work, did it ???

The only solution is a political solution which means bringing people to table, talking, addressing the problems and treating people like people.

Much as many on here won't like it, military force generates military counterforce and ever more resentment.

Treat people like people and you may start getting a result.

Since when has a political solution worked with a Muslim driven terrorism issue. Never. Treat people like people who act like people.

Once people cross a certain moral line such as showing an ability to indiscriminately spray bullets into children, women and babies, those people have lost the requisite morals, ethics and social norms required to live in a civilized culture. Those people simply cannot be rehabilitated.

The mentality and solution you propose is comparable to saying: Lets not incarcerate serial killers, they are just misunderstood. Let's reason with them and they will be fine living in the public domain. Try your logic with Mexican cartels that behead and dismember people while alive on a daily basis to cause terror and to show power. Wake up and accept reality or continue to see innocents die and suffer.

Edited December 12, 2012 by F430murci

[sunshine51]

Can you remember Northern Ireland? How about taking a leaf out of their book and start road blocks in and out of towns, searching ALL vehicles for arms etc. Are they worried about the cost??? Is money more important than life???

Here in LOS...yes...money is more important than life.

[DocN]

I have a little problem here. A not really small number of posters are thinking, a "violent" solution is favorable, because talking with terrorists...and so on...

So enlighten me: how does your solution look like?

Just send the Army in (yeah, right!) and start killing all muslims, who seem to be armed?

I guess, a few hundred innocent guys are accounted for as "collateral damage", yes?!

A few hundred fathers, brothers, sons...but also daughters or sisters or moms!

Well...bad luck!

Sorry! Not good enough for me!

There is a REAL problem here and we are not at "The Expandables"!

The moment you stop talking, humanity finally looses!

Problem is: they haven't even started talking!

And the glorious "War on Drugs" has shown what happens, when Thailand stops talking (and thinking) and takes up arms!

There has to be a "diplomatic" solution for this problem- violence that follows violence that follows violence is NOT the way!

[simple1]

I have a little problem here. A not really small number of posters are thinking, a "violent" solution is favorable, because talking with terrorists...and so on...

So enlighten me: how does your solution look like?

Just send the Army in (yeah, right!) and start killing all muslims, who seem to be armed?

I guess, a few hundred innocent guys are accounted for as "collateral damage", yes?!

A few hundred fathers, brothers, sons...but also daughters or sisters or moms!

Well...bad luck!

Sorry! Not good enough for me!

There is a REAL problem here and we are not at "The Expandables"!

The moment you stop talking, humanity finally looses!

Problem is: they haven't even started talking!

And the glorious "War on Drugs" has shown what happens, when Thailand stops talking (and thinking) and takes up arms!

There has to be a "diplomatic" solution for this problem- violence that follows violence that follows violence is NOT the way!

So let's cut to the chase...

Do you suggest Thailand should give the three provinces away?

It's not gonna happen.

It's not a matter of "giving away" the Deep South provinces. In Aceh lasting peace was achieved by granting autonomy after more than 15,000 died in the conflict. The agreement put in place granted the province control over all areas of government except external defence, foreign relations and fiscal policy. It allows Aceh to retain 70% of its natural resources, allowed the Acehnese to field independent candidates in elections for provincial governor and district chiefs and to establish local political parties to run in future elections. In the Southern Philippines an agreement has been put in place with Muslim rebels after 15 years of talks and more than 150,000 deaths to cease the killings by both sides of the conflict. It's currently planned for the detailed negotiations for autonomy to be completed by 2016. In both cases their was a recognised group with whom the respective governments could negotiate.

The challenge for the Thai government is that the insurgency/terrorist group leaders, as far as I am aware, have not put a list of conditions in the public domain in order to commence negotiations. After escalated violence from 2004 to date, Thai government agencies are still not in synch regards responses and management of the issues, nor do they appear to have put a timetable of objectives to be achieved by both sides to commence dialogue. Their appears to be a very dark agenda by people of influence and power within government and the terrorist groups benefiting from the conflict. For the meantime, Thai intelligence agencies have forecast an increase in the level of violence in 2013; does this equate to more funding, thereby cash flow available for corruption?

Edited December 13, 2012 by simple1

[DocN]

I have a little problem here. A not really small number of posters are thinking, a "violent" solution is favorable, because talking with terrorists...and so on...

So enlighten me: how does your solution look like?

Just send the Army in (yeah, right!) and start killing all muslims, who seem to be armed?

I guess, a few hundred innocent guys are accounted for as "collateral damage", yes?!

A few hundred fathers, brothers, sons...but also daughters or sisters or moms!

Well...bad luck!

Sorry! Not good enough for me!

There is a REAL problem here and we are not at "The Expandables"!

The moment you stop talking, humanity finally looses!

Problem is: they haven't even started talking!

And the glorious "War on Drugs" has shown what happens, when Thailand stops talking (and thinking) and takes up arms!

There has to be a "diplomatic" solution for this problem- violence that follows violence that follows violence is NOT the way!

So let's cut to the chase...

Do you suggest Thailand should give the three provinces away?

It's not gonna happen.

I have little hope for Thailand (not only in this case) anyways.

I could tell you, what I would LIKE to see happening and what I presume WILL be happening...and "giving away" the provinces does not show up in either things.

The main problem is, that this country is pretty much effed up anyways.

Just remember: in 2010 the police obviously refused PM Abisith, in an attempt to stop the setting up of a guarded "village" on Ratchaphrasong (the POLICE refused the HEAD OF STATE!!!), whereas the Army in 2006 just took things in their own hands and removed a PM from his duties in the name of democracy! How much more crazy can sh@t get?

Violence CAN NOT be the solution...but unfortunately, this is where we are heading!

[pacovl46]

That's just sick!!! When is it gonna stop???

[F430murci]

I have a little problem here. A not really small number of posters are thinking, a "violent" solution is favorable, because talking with terrorists...and so on...

So enlighten me: how does your solution look like?

Just send the Army in (yeah, right!) and start killing all muslims, who seem to be armed?

I guess, a few hundred innocent guys are accounted for as "collateral damage", yes?!

A few hundred fathers, brothers, sons...but also daughters or sisters or moms!

Well...bad luck!

Sorry! Not good enough for me!

There is a REAL problem here and we are not at "The Expandables"!

The moment you stop talking, humanity finally looses!

Problem is: they haven't even started talking!

And the glorious "War on Drugs" has shown what happens, when Thailand stops talking (and thinking) and takes up arms!

There has to be a "diplomatic" solution for this problem- violence that follows violence that follows violence is NOT the way!

We all hear you loud and clear and understand you. Violence begets violence. The problem is, those that need to listen to this message won't listen and don't care.

They can try your diplomatic solution until everyone is blue in the face and then tell us how it worked it for everyone next year when the situation has escalated into an unmanageable situation. You do realize it is going to get worse don't you and it will very likely get sufficiently bad that the Thai millitary is incapable of handling the situation.

Edited December 13, 2012 by F430murci

[FarangTalk]

The clowns advocating a violent solution seem to have over-looked some facts.

The region is predominantly (90%?) Muslim.

The region is traditionally Muslim Malay.

Thailand claims sovereignty over these Malay states, the region wasn't part of Siam until 1909 when they annexed the Malay Sultanates under a treaty with Britain (under which several more Malay states that the Siamese claimed sovereignty over were spared the same fate).

Some history and geography lessons are badly needed.

[FarangTalk]

We all hear you loud and clear and understand you. Violence begets violence. The problem is, those that need to listen to this message won't listen and don't care.

They can try your diplomatic solution until everyone is blue in the face and then tell us how it worked it for everyone next year when the situation has escalated into an unmanageable situation. You do realize it is going to get worse don't you and it will very likely get sufficiently bad that the Thai millitary is incapable of handling the situation.

They are incapable now.

You fail to understand it is Muslim Malay land and has been for centuries.

Having more military presence will only widen the conflict and eventually plunge the region in to all out war.

Malaysia won't stand idly by either, so there's another issue to think about.

The Thais won't relinquish full control over the area because of oil and gas reserves in the region, and the loss of face conceding anything to the insurgents demands.

The only way forward is negotiation with more autonomy for the region.