Pheu Thai To Seek 24 Million Votes; Bowing To Thaksin, Abhisit Says: Referendum

[whybother]

May I suggest you abide by your moniker, it will give your opinions greater credibility

But if I don't bother, I won't have an opinion and it won't change my credibility.

[chrisrazz]

May I suggest you abide by your moniker, it will give your opinions greater credibility

But if I don't bother, I won't have an opinion and it won't change my credibility.

Ha ha, now, if you and I met in a bar for a lively debate we'd probably have equal respect, probable about something irrelevant, yet hiding behind a computer is no way for a rational discussion to progress. Please take the time to read the link. It was not my intention to promote one side of an argument, after all it's not my place. It is purely to give what may or may not be an independent view on the issues that so many on here are seem adamant about.

[whybother]

Ha ha, now, if you and I met in a bar for a lively debate we'd probably have equal respect, probable about something irrelevant, yet hiding behind a computer is no way for a rational discussion to progress. Please take the time to read the link. It was not my intention to promote one side of an argument, after all it's not my place. It is purely to give what may or may not be an independent view on the issues that so many on here are seem adamant about.

Do you seriously think that I haven't read it?

[MikeOboe57]

As Robert Amsterdam wrote his own wiki-biography it is not promoting your cause to recommend wikipedia as a reliable and impartial source.

[aboctok]

Some of Abhisit's statements quoted in this article are not very constructive. Almost every utterance of his includes a Thaksin reference, He seems to be 'hard wired' into this change the conversation mold. Not smart. This can be easily turned on him as follows:

• The bit about 'bowing to Thaksin" - Who was he bowing to when hoisted into the PM position. I'm sure there were many. No-one believes he was a "lone ranger"...Not then...Not now.
  
• Twice in these quotes, he uses the old saw of preferencing a Thaksin reference with the agenized-laden "fugitive' label, erroneously avoiding 'political exile' reality. The Media can now do likewise with him, quite correctly preferencing his name with "Alleged murderer". For reasons we can all speculate about, I don't think this will happen.
  

I noticed a strong contingent of Red Shirts on the Bonanza stage on Saturday, suggesting the UDD is working hard in the South drumming up support. Democrat Party blanket political ownership of that area may be weakening a tad.

I don't understand why the "bar" will be higher this time, than when a coup administration held a similar referendum. At that time it was a simple majority for approval, while now, this article suggests it needs to be 50%-plus. But then the coup was not Democratic to start with, and was not there at voter behest. That probably gave them more arbitrary, non-democratic powers to set their own standards. Democratic governance not being one of them.

Don't you mean prefacing?

[EarthAlien]

If Abhisit was campaigning like this against the previous constitution he may have been imprisoned.

"The junta passed a law that made criticism of the draft and opposition to the constitutional referendum a criminal act. Political parties were not allowed to persuade voters to cast ballots in favour or not in favour of the constitution. Any violators could be banned from politics for 5 years and jailed for 10 years." The Nation

24 million times 500 baht vote encouragement, will be a costly manner, i guess some more fake millions of rice have to be exported on paper only to never have been moved and the 15.000 baht per tonne cashed once more

Unfortunately, vote buying is the scourge of Electoral Democracy in Thailand. It can be said with assurity however, that all sides are equally guilty, and all sides are equally guilty for not doing anything about it.

One side's attempt to appear angelic in this regard and who have difficulty in winning elections, even use the scourge to denigrate elections. For them, it is a convenient cudgel with which to demonize Electoral Democracy and are very motivated to retain the practice for that reason.

It can also be persuasively argued, that because all sides do it equally, no side benefits from it. The last election would have come out the same way it did, with or without vote-buying.

That said, in spite of all its' warts, faulty Thai Electoral Democracy is still better than any alternative, IMHO.

Whilst there has been vote buying by both sides, the disturbing thought is that PTP viz-a-viz Thaksin has far more buying power than anyone else and also at this stage is far more motivated to buy enough votes to allow the referendum to go in their favor.

I hope for the sake of Thailand that the constitution does not get amended to allow PTP to whitewash Thaksin and bring him back to power. That IMHO could be the beginning of massive internal strife for Thailand.

[scorecard]

Some of Abhisit's statements quoted in this article are not very constructive. Almost every utterance of his includes a Thaksin reference, He seems to be 'hard wired' into this change the conversation mold. Not smart. This can be easily turned on him as follows:

• The bit about 'bowing to Thaksin" - Who was he bowing to when hoisted into the PM position. I'm sure there were many. No-one believes he was a "lone ranger"...Not then...Not now.
  
• Twice in these quotes, he uses the old saw of preferencing a Thaksin reference with the agenized-laden "fugitive' label, erroneously avoiding 'political exile' reality. The Media can now do likewise with him, quite correctly preferencing his name with "Alleged murderer". For reasons we can all speculate about, I don't think this will happen.
  

I noticed a strong contingent of Red Shirts on the Bonanza stage on Saturday, suggesting the UDD is working hard in the South drumming up support. Democrat Party blanket political ownership of that area may be weakening a tad.

I don't understand why the "bar" will be higher this time, than when a coup administration held a similar referendum. At that time it was a simple majority for approval, while now, this article suggests it needs to be 50%-plus. But then the coup was not Democratic to start with, and was not there at voter behest. That probably gave them more arbitrary, non-democratic powers to set their own standards. Democratic governance not being one of them.

Enter calargill II. Same sentence construction etc., trying to get everybody to focus on deliberately constructed perception management points.

[khunken]

Some of Abhisit's statements quoted in this article are not very constructive. Almost every utterance of his includes a Thaksin reference, He seems to be 'hard wired' into this change the conversation mold. Not smart. This can be easily turned on him as follows:

• The bit about 'bowing to Thaksin" - Who was he bowing to when hoisted into the PM position. I'm sure there were many. No-one believes he was a "lone ranger"...Not then...Not now.
  
• Twice in these quotes, he uses the old saw of preferencing a Thaksin reference with the agenized-laden "fugitive' label, erroneously avoiding 'political exile' reality. The Media can now do likewise with him, quite correctly preferencing his name with "Alleged murderer". For reasons we can all speculate about, I don't think this will happen.
  

I noticed a strong contingent of Red Shirts on the Bonanza stage on Saturday, suggesting the UDD is working hard in the South drumming up support. Democrat Party blanket political ownership of that area may be weakening a tad.

I don't understand why the "bar" will be higher this time, than when a coup administration held a similar referendum. At that time it was a simple majority for approval, while now, this article suggests it needs to be 50%-plus. But then the coup was not Democratic to start with, and was not there at voter behest. That probably gave them more arbitrary, non-democratic powers to set their own standards. Democratic governance not being one of them.

Enter calargill II. Same sentence construction etc., trying to get everybody to focus on deliberately constructed perception management points.

Yes, with the usual red-shirt slogans thrown in.

He says he noticed a contingent of red-shirts on the stage at Bonanza (was he there?) attempting to drum up support in the south. I think they may well be out-intimidated there.

[patjem]

Some of Abhisit's statements quoted in this article are not very constructive. Almost every utterance of his includes a Thaksin reference, He seems to be 'hard wired' into this change the conversation mold. Not smart. This can be easily turned on him as follows:

• The bit about 'bowing to Thaksin" - Who was he bowing to when hoisted into the PM position. I'm sure there were many. No-one believes he was a "lone ranger"...Not then...Not now.
  
• Twice in these quotes, he uses the old saw of preferencing a Thaksin reference with the agenized-laden "fugitive' label, erroneously avoiding 'political exile' reality. The Media can now do likewise with him, quite correctly preferencing his name with "Alleged murderer". For reasons we can all speculate about, I don't think this will happen.
  

I noticed a strong contingent of Red Shirts on the Bonanza stage on Saturday, suggesting the UDD is working hard in the South drumming up support. Democrat Party blanket political ownership of that area may be weakening a tad.

I don't understand why the "bar" will be higher this time, than when a coup administration held a similar referendum. At that time it was a simple majority for approval, while now, this article suggests it needs to be 50%-plus. But then the coup was not Democratic to start with, and was not there at voter behest. That probably gave them more arbitrary, non-democratic powers to set their own standards. Democratic governance not being one of them.

You seem to be a bit sensitive about the 'bowing to Thaksin' statement.

But Thaksin thinks, Pheua Thai does.

Pheua Thai is run by one family- Thaksin , Yaowapa, and Yingluk.

2 days ago Chalerm and Jatupon were against the referendum, now suddenly they support it- after the world's greatest liar said he was in favour.

True democracy Pheua Thai style, Thaksin decides everything!

Because he ie IS a fugitive, in the true description of the word, don't understand why you make anything further of it.

[waza]

It will be interesting to see if they can achieve Thaksin's goal in a democratic manner

[khunken]

It will be interesting to see if they can achieve Thaksin's goal in a democratic manner

But that's an oxymoron isn't it?

[ratcatcher]

Some of Abhisit's statements quoted in this article are not very constructive. Almost every utterance of his includes a Thaksin reference, He seems to be 'hard wired' into this change the conversation mold. Not smart. This can be easily turned on him as follows:

• The bit about 'bowing to Thaksin" - Who was he bowing to when hoisted into the PM position. I'm sure there were many. No-one believes he was a "lone ranger"...Not then...Not now.
  
• Twice in these quotes, he uses the old saw of preferencing a Thaksin reference with the agenized-laden "fugitive' label, erroneously avoiding 'political exile' reality. The Media can now do likewise with him, quite correctly preferencing his name with "Alleged murderer". For reasons we can all speculate about, I don't think this will happen.
  

I noticed a strong contingent of Red Shirts on the Bonanza stage on Saturday, suggesting the UDD is working hard in the South drumming up support. Democrat Party blanket political ownership of that area may be weakening a tad.

I don't understand why the "bar" will be higher this time, than when a coup administration held a similar referendum. At that time it was a simple majority for approval, while now, this article suggests it needs to be 50%-plus. But then the coup was not Democratic to start with, and was not there at voter behest. That probably gave them more arbitrary, non-democratic powers to set their own standards. Democratic governance not being one of them.

Don't you mean prefacing?

"prefacing" would be correct, however"preferencing", although incorrect, sounds better as it's longer and sounds more important.

"agenized-laden" (agonized???)

perhaps "agendized" would be correct.

"agendize"

(verb) : to include on an agenda

Edited December 25, 2012 by ratcatcher

[otherstuff1957]

I noticed a strong contingent of Red Shirts on the Bonanza stage on Saturday, suggesting the UDD is working hard in the South drumming up support. Democrat Party blanket political ownership of that area may be weakening a tad.

Bonanza in the South? Have you actually ever been to Thailand? Bonanza Resort is north of Bangkok.

[Hugo6]

Some of Abhisit's statements quoted in this article are not very constructive. Almost every utterance of his includes a Thaksin reference, He seems to be 'hard wired' into this change the conversation mold. Not smart. This can be easily turned on him as follows:

• The bit about 'bowing to Thaksin" - Who was he bowing to when hoisted into the PM position. I'm sure there were many. No-one believes he was a "lone ranger"...Not then...Not now.
  
• Twice in these quotes, he uses the old saw of preferencing a Thaksin reference with the agenized-laden "fugitive' label, erroneously avoiding 'political exile' reality. The Media can now do likewise with him, quite correctly preferencing his name with "Alleged murderer". For reasons we can all speculate about, I don't think this will happen.
  

I noticed a strong contingent of Red Shirts on the Bonanza stage on Saturday, suggesting the UDD is working hard in the South drumming up support. Democrat Party blanket political ownership of that area may be weakening a tad.

I don't understand why the "bar" will be higher this time, than when a coup administration held a similar referendum. At that time it was a simple majority for approval, while now, this article suggests it needs to be 50%-plus. But then the coup was not Democratic to start with, and was not there at voter behest. That probably gave them more arbitrary, non-democratic powers to set their own standards. Democratic governance not being one of them.

Political exile? From a government led by his sister and filled with his cronies, sycophants and appointed criminals dodging court? Do you realise how idiotic that statement is?

Thaksin can voluntarily return at any time, doesn't even have to book a ticket, but stays away to avoid prosecution and incarceration - which makes him a fugitive.

wrong again, that makes him a political exile, ... as stated.

[scorecard]

Some of Abhisit's statements quoted in this article are not very constructive. Almost every utterance of his includes a Thaksin reference, He seems to be 'hard wired' into this change the conversation mold. Not smart. This can be easily turned on him as follows:

• The bit about 'bowing to Thaksin" - Who was he bowing to when hoisted into the PM position. I'm sure there were many. No-one believes he was a "lone ranger"...Not then...Not now.
  
• Twice in these quotes, he uses the old saw of preferencing a Thaksin reference with the agenized-laden "fugitive' label, erroneously avoiding 'political exile' reality. The Media can now do likewise with him, quite correctly preferencing his name with "Alleged murderer". For reasons we can all speculate about, I don't think this will happen.
  

I noticed a strong contingent of Red Shirts on the Bonanza stage on Saturday, suggesting the UDD is working hard in the South drumming up support. Democrat Party blanket political ownership of that area may be weakening a tad.

I don't understand why the "bar" will be higher this time, than when a coup administration held a similar referendum. At that time it was a simple majority for approval, while now, this article suggests it needs to be 50%-plus. But then the coup was not Democratic to start with, and was not there at voter behest. That probably gave them more arbitrary, non-democratic powers to set their own standards. Democratic governance not being one of them.

Enter calargill II. Same sentence construction etc., trying to get everybody to focus on deliberately constructed perception management points.

Yes, with the usual red-shirt slogans thrown in.

He says he noticed a contingent of red-shirts on the stage at Bonanza (was he there?) attempting to drum up support in the south. I think they may well be out-intimidated there.

Yes, just like calgarill, always in every place in Thailand, every hour, every minute, always has instant access to everybody / everything every minute of every day,

What bullshXt!

Cargarill trfied the same thing, eventually painted himself / herself into the 'no credibility in any direction' corner.

Here we go again.

[scorecard]

Some of Abhisit's statements quoted in this article are not very constructive. Almost every utterance of his includes a Thaksin reference, He seems to be 'hard wired' into this change the conversation mold. Not smart. This can be easily turned on him as follows:

• The bit about 'bowing to Thaksin" - Who was he bowing to when hoisted into the PM position. I'm sure there were many. No-one believes he was a "lone ranger"...Not then...Not now.
  
• Twice in these quotes, he uses the old saw of preferencing a Thaksin reference with the agenized-laden "fugitive' label, erroneously avoiding 'political exile' reality. The Media can now do likewise with him, quite correctly preferencing his name with "Alleged murderer". For reasons we can all speculate about, I don't think this will happen.
  

I noticed a strong contingent of Red Shirts on the Bonanza stage on Saturday, suggesting the UDD is working hard in the South drumming up support. Democrat Party blanket political ownership of that area may be weakening a tad.

I don't understand why the "bar" will be higher this time, than when a coup administration held a similar referendum. At that time it was a simple majority for approval, while now, this article suggests it needs to be 50%-plus. But then the coup was not Democratic to start with, and was not there at voter behest. That probably gave them more arbitrary, non-democratic powers to set their own standards. Democratic governance not being one of them.

Just one Point, you seem to be trying to create a picture where abhisit mentioning thaksin is somehow very wrong.

Why should that Be?

Perhaps, righteous you could explain why this is wrong, and if you really want to pursue this as a valid point, you could explain why the pt / red shirt rabble trying to sue / charge abhisit with everything expect perhaps bad weather, is fair and reasonable, but abhisit mentioning thaksin is not reasonable.

Edited December 25, 2012 by scorecard

[scorecard]

Some of Abhisit's statements quoted in this article are not very constructive. Almost every utterance of his includes a Thaksin reference, He seems to be 'hard wired' into this change the conversation mold. Not smart. This can be easily turned on him as follows:

• The bit about 'bowing to Thaksin" - Who was he bowing to when hoisted into the PM position. I'm sure there were many. No-one believes he was a "lone ranger"...Not then...Not now.
  
• Twice in these quotes, he uses the old saw of preferencing a Thaksin reference with the agenized-laden "fugitive' label, erroneously avoiding 'political exile' reality. The Media can now do likewise with him, quite correctly preferencing his name with "Alleged murderer". For reasons we can all speculate about, I don't think this will happen.
  

I noticed a strong contingent of Red Shirts on the Bonanza stage on Saturday, suggesting the UDD is working hard in the South drumming up support. Democrat Party blanket political ownership of that area may be weakening a tad.

I don't understand why the "bar" will be higher this time, than when a coup administration held a similar referendum. At that time it was a simple majority for approval, while now, this article suggests it needs to be 50%-plus. But then the coup was not Democratic to start with, and was not there at voter behest. That probably gave them more arbitrary, non-democratic powers to set their own standards. Democratic governance not being one of them.

Political exile? From a government led by his sister and filled with his cronies, sycophants and appointed criminals dodging court? Do you realise how idiotic that statement is?

Thaksin can voluntarily return at any time, doesn't even have to book a ticket, but stays away to avoid prosecution and incarceration - which makes him a fugitive.

wrong again, that makes him a political exile, ... as stated.

Perhaps you could explain what you mean by 'political exile' compared with 'fugitive'.

[rubl]

Some of Abhisit's statements quoted in this article are not very constructive. Almost every utterance of his includes a Thaksin reference, He seems to be 'hard wired' into this change the conversation mold. Not smart. This can be easily turned on him as follows:

• The bit about 'bowing to Thaksin" - Who was he bowing to when hoisted into the PM position. I'm sure there were many. No-one believes he was a "lone ranger"...Not then...Not now.
  
• Twice in these quotes, he uses the old saw of preferencing a Thaksin reference with the agenized-laden "fugitive' label, erroneously avoiding 'political exile' reality. The Media can now do likewise with him, quite correctly preferencing his name with "Alleged murderer". For reasons we can all speculate about, I don't think this will happen.
  

I noticed a strong contingent of Red Shirts on the Bonanza stage on Saturday, suggesting the UDD is working hard in the South drumming up support. Democrat Party blanket political ownership of that area may be weakening a tad.

I don't understand why the "bar" will be higher this time, than when a coup administration held a similar referendum. At that time it was a simple majority for approval, while now, this article suggests it needs to be 50%-plus. But then the coup was not Democratic to start with, and was not there at voter behest. That probably gave them more arbitrary, non-democratic powers to set their own standards. Democratic governance not being one of them.

Political exile? From a government led by his sister and filled with his cronies, sycophants and appointed criminals dodging court? Do you realise how idiotic that statement is?

Thaksin can voluntarily return at any time, doesn't even have to book a ticket, but stays away to avoid prosecution and incarceration - which makes him a fugitive.

wrong again, that makes him a political exile, ... as stated.

'political exile'? As in refusing to return because his younger sister is in charge? Mind you, I know some younger sisters who's attitude might induce me to stay away as well

[khunken]

Some of Abhisit's statements quoted in this article are not very constructive. Almost every utterance of his includes a Thaksin reference, He seems to be 'hard wired' into this change the conversation mold. Not smart. This can be easily turned on him as follows:

• The bit about 'bowing to Thaksin" - Who was he bowing to when hoisted into the PM position. I'm sure there were many. No-one believes he was a "lone ranger"...Not then...Not now.
  
• Twice in these quotes, he uses the old saw of preferencing a Thaksin reference with the agenized-laden "fugitive' label, erroneously avoiding 'political exile' reality. The Media can now do likewise with him, quite correctly preferencing his name with "Alleged murderer". For reasons we can all speculate about, I don't think this will happen.
  

I noticed a strong contingent of Red Shirts on the Bonanza stage on Saturday, suggesting the UDD is working hard in the South drumming up support. Democrat Party blanket political ownership of that area may be weakening a tad.

I don't understand why the "bar" will be higher this time, than when a coup administration held a similar referendum. At that time it was a simple majority for approval, while now, this article suggests it needs to be 50%-plus. But then the coup was not Democratic to start with, and was not there at voter behest. That probably gave them more arbitrary, non-democratic powers to set their own standards. Democratic governance not being one of them.

Political exile? From a government led by his sister and filled with his cronies, sycophants and appointed criminals dodging court? Do you realise how idiotic that statement is?

Thaksin can voluntarily return at any time, doesn't even have to book a ticket, but stays away to avoid prosecution and incarceration - which makes him a fugitive.

wrong again, that makes him a political exile, ... as stated.

Another one who doesn't understand what a political exile is. One definition is a national sent into exile by the ruling party. My dictionary mentions - banishment, sent abroad or expelled from one's own country.

None of those definitions fit Thaksin's status. He was convicted in a court of law after a failed attempt to bribe the judges, refused to appeal & ran away.

Criminal fugitive is the closest description if one refrains from distorting the facts.

[Hugo6]

the yellow brigade is at it again.

one claims that having a sister as PM makes calling someone a political exile as idiotic. another wants a child's description of the differences between the two terms, and a third spouts more sibling nonsense, while another just whips out the dictionary as if that proves something.

thaksin is a political exile. he is a fugitive only if you buy into the legitimacy of a non-elected coup-based government and the court system created by it.

which apparently many in this forum do buy into. oh, and the oft, almost sole, news source does too

[khunken]

the yellow brigade is at it again.

one claims that having a sister as PM makes calling someone a political exile as idiotic. another wants a child's description of the differences between the two terms, and a third spouts more sibling nonsense, while another just whips out the dictionary as if that proves something.

thaksin is a political exile. he is a fugitive only if you buy into the legitimacy of a non-elected coup-based government and the court system created by it.

which apparently many in this forum do buy into. oh, and the oft, almost sole, news source does too

I suppose that arguments don't matter if you just keep repeating something ad nauseum some fool might think it's the truth - the red shirt method. I don't support the yellow shirts but that doesn't matter to anyone who likes to try & shoot the messenger.

Thaksin's conviction happened when one of his many prototypes was in power. He condemns the court that found him guilty but is quite happy to use the courts to sue anyone who tells too much truth about him. It's so ridiculous & parrot-like trying to say that the court which tried him wasn't legitimate. So he tried to bribe an illegitimate court? Monty Python could have written the sketch & boy could they have had fun with Thaksin.

[rubl]

the yellow brigade is at it again.

one claims that having a sister as PM makes calling someone a political exile as idiotic. another wants a child's description of the differences between the two terms, and a third spouts more sibling nonsense, while another just whips out the dictionary as if that proves something.

thaksin is a political exile. he is a fugitive only if you buy into the legitimacy of a non-elected coup-based government and the court system created by it.

which apparently many in this forum do buy into. oh, and the oft, almost sole, news source does too

Political exile, self-exile, totally innocent Thaksin, honest mistake Thaksin. Just a few interviews with our dear criminal fugitive indicate a fine level of duplicity. BTW interview as found on the first search result two pages, not sorted on bias

2007-01-19

"Shinawatra: No. No. (DR: Go back as a private ... ) Enough is enough. Six years you serve the countries. You been working hard. You sacrifice your time even your life. And, even your family life. So it's, it's time for me to go back as a private citizen. And contribute to the Thai society outside political arena."

http://edition.cnn.c...view/index.html

2009-05-06

"You said earlier that this is beyond you. If so, why is it necessary for you to return to politics?

The Thai people know how badly I've been bullied. This is politically motivated. That's the reason why even people who don't know me and don't like me have come forward. Because they feel like this is not fair."

http://www.time.com/...1883511,00.html

2011-05-16

"If those who have suffered the most can accept things and let things be, and not think about retribution, then achieving resolution will be easier,” Thaksin said.

“After the election, after Pheu Thai wins, it has to be clear that there will be no retribution taken.

“Those who have suffered, forgive and forget and look forward together to the future.”

http://thailakorntv....trading-online/

"

2011-06-15

"Thaksin: You can't pay anyone to go out and get shot at. That's nonsense. In any case, I have less than half as much money as I had at the start of the 1990s; barely a billion. A little is left over from the sale of my soccer club, Manchester City. So it is not true that I enriched myself. In fact, I was robbed."

http://www.spiegel.d...n-a-768492.html

2011-06-17

""In politics we have to use the iron fist and the velvet glove," said Thaksin, who has made his home in a region that has seen unprecedented upheaval since early 2011 with people in Tunisia, Libya, Egypt, Bahrain, Yemen and Syria taking to the streets against their governments.

"Nowadays you have to use more of the velvet glove than iron fist. During time of conflict you need to have more dialogue instead of just trying to use law to suppress the other side," he said, referring to Thailand long-running political crisis."

http://www.reuters.c...E75G0EL20110617

Edited December 25, 2012 by rubl

[yoshiwara]

the yellow brigade is at it again.

one claims that having a sister as PM makes calling someone a political exile as idiotic. another wants a child's description of the differences between the two terms, and a third spouts more sibling nonsense, while another just whips out the dictionary as if that proves something.

thaksin is a political exile. he is a fugitive only if you buy into the legitimacy of a non-elected coup-based government and the court system created by it.

which apparently many in this forum do buy into. oh, and the oft, almost sole, news source does too

Right, not many would have known that money laundering funds through the family chauffeur was totally legal prior to the coup. Yes, now the red apologists are trying (again) to sell us the idea that Thaksin is a political fugitive. If only. That's the problem for Thaksin. For Arisman one might argue that his crimes are essentially political in nature, but for Thaksin corruption and bribery are those of a common criminal and difficult to either pardon or legitimise. Unless one wants to free the Thailand jails of all those convicted of similar crimes both before and after the coup presumably. Oh the tortuous machinations of the red propaganda boiler room. PS there is no yellow brigade. Only a "this is all about Thaksin so watch out" brigade.

[paymaster]

Some of Abhisit's statements quoted in this article are not very constructive. Almost every utterance of his includes a Thaksin reference, He seems to be 'hard wired' into this change the conversation mold. Not smart. This can be easily turned on him as follows:

• The bit about 'bowing to Thaksin" - Who was he bowing to when hoisted into the PM position. I'm sure there were many. No-one believes he was a "lone ranger"...Not then...Not now.
  
• Twice in these quotes, he uses the old saw of preferencing a Thaksin reference with the agenized-laden "fugitive' label, erroneously avoiding 'political exile' reality. The Media can now do likewise with him, quite correctly preferencing his name with "Alleged murderer". For reasons we can all speculate about, I don't think this will happen.
  

I noticed a strong contingent of Red Shirts on the Bonanza stage on Saturday, suggesting the UDD is working hard in the South drumming up support. Democrat Party blanket political ownership of that area may be weakening a tad.

I don't understand why the "bar" will be higher this time, than when a coup administration held a similar referendum. At that time it was a simple majority for approval, while now, this article suggests it needs to be 50%-plus. But then the coup was not Democratic to start with, and was not there at voter behest. That probably gave them more arbitrary, non-democratic powers to set their own standards. Democratic governance not being one of them.

I can't understand why people don't accept Khun T's exile as political? Oh by the way, what did happen to the Bt500mil that went missing from the

airport scanner contract?

Edited December 25, 2012 by paymaster

[MAJIC]

The worrying part of this Referendum to change the Constitution is not that PTP has the peoples permission to change the Constitution,should they win,and trust PTP to alter it accordingly!

But more important what are the changes the people have inadvertantly given permission to? Shouldn't the Referendum contain exactly what the proposed changes should be?

This looks like a Thaksin Charter to gain entry back to Thailand, by the back door route! with no criminal charges waiting for him.

[waza]

OMB, more redshirt sheeples bleeting about how hard done by their fugitive convicted criminal cult leader is. The hypocrisy is unbelievable as they want you to believe that the conviction of Thaksin in a court of law, while his own government was in power, was politically motivated despite the overwhelming evidence. While the charges of murder laid against a democratically elected PM who was defending the citizens of Bangkok from a violent group of mecenary thugs armed with weapons of war is totally justified.

[OzMick]

the yellow brigade is at it again.

one claims that having a sister as PM makes calling someone a political exile as idiotic. another wants a child's description of the differences between the two terms, and a third spouts more sibling nonsense, while another just whips out the dictionary as if that proves something.

thaksin is a political exile. he is a fugitive only if you buy into the legitimacy of a non-elected coup-based government and the court system created by it.

which apparently many in this forum do buy into. oh, and the oft, almost sole, news source does too

Then why is it that most of the charges he is avoiding involve abuse of power, fraud and corruption?

[whybother]

The worrying part of this Referendum to change the Constitution is not that PTP has the peoples permission to change the Constitution,should they win,and trust PTP to alter it accordingly!

But more important what are the changes the people have inadvertantly given permission to? Shouldn't the Referendum contain exactly what the proposed changes should be?

This looks like a Thaksin Charter to gain entry back to Thailand, by the back door route! with no criminal charges waiting for him.

The first referendum is to basically ask "Do you want to have a group of people write a new constitution?" There will be a second referendum to ask "Do you accept the new constitution?"

[Hugo6]

the yellow brigade is at it again.

one claims that having a sister as PM makes calling someone a political exile as idiotic. another wants a child's description of the differences between the two terms, and a third spouts more sibling nonsense, while another just whips out the dictionary as if that proves something.

thaksin is a political exile. he is a fugitive only if you buy into the legitimacy of a non-elected coup-based government and the court system created by it.

which apparently many in this forum do buy into. oh, and the oft, almost sole, news source does too

I suppose that arguments don't matter if you just keep repeating something ad nauseum some fool might think it's the truth - the red shirt method. I don't support the yellow shirts but that doesn't matter to anyone who likes to try & shoot the messenger.

Thaksin's conviction happened when one of his many prototypes was in power. He condemns the court that found him guilty but is quite happy to use the courts to sue anyone who tells too much truth about him. It's so ridiculous & parrot-like trying to say that the court which tried him wasn't legitimate. So he tried to bribe an illegitimate court? Monty Python could have written the sketch & boy could they have had fun with Thaksin.

if you just keep repeating something ad nauseum some fool might think it's the truth -

right. agree completely.

its the primary tactic used my those of your ilk. ignore the facts.

[OzMick]

the yellow brigade is at it again.

one claims that having a sister as PM makes calling someone a political exile as idiotic. another wants a child's description of the differences between the two terms, and a third spouts more sibling nonsense, while another just whips out the dictionary as if that proves something.

thaksin is a political exile. he is a fugitive only if you buy into the legitimacy of a non-elected coup-based government and the court system created by it.

which apparently many in this forum do buy into. oh, and the oft, almost sole, news source does too

I suppose that arguments don't matter if you just keep repeating something ad nauseum some fool might think it's the truth - the red shirt method. I don't support the yellow shirts but that doesn't matter to anyone who likes to try & shoot the messenger.

Thaksin's conviction happened when one of his many prototypes was in power. He condemns the court that found him guilty but is quite happy to use the courts to sue anyone who tells too much truth about him. It's so ridiculous & parrot-like trying to say that the court which tried him wasn't legitimate. So he tried to bribe an illegitimate court? Monty Python could have written the sketch & boy could they have had fun with Thaksin.

if you just keep repeating something ad nauseum some fool might think it's the truth -

right. agree completely.

its the primary tactic used my those of your ilk. ignore the facts.

Actually, our ilk prefers to ignore your heavily biased opinions which you put forward as facts, when the only support you offer, if at all, is revised history, illogical argument and casual lies.

Edited December 26, 2012 by OzMick