Thailand Will Run Out Of Natural Gas In 10 Years

[Bluespunk]

Someone in govt got a financial interest in building coal fuelled power plants by any chance?

[Payboy]

Thailand will never ever run out of natural gas as each successive government will be completely full of it!

Ahh you beat me to it mate! Was going to say Chalerm has 20 years worth inside of him alone.

Doubt he would last 20 years, he's emitting like there's no tomorrow.

[Chopperboy]

All the signs that they are preparing the ground to go Nuclear.

Other countries still have no answer about what to do with the waste like the highly dangerous spent fuel rods...

So whats Thailand going to do with them?

[crazygreg44]

There is no doubt that fossil fuels will run out, perhaps not in 10 years, but eventually. In the meanwhile, they become harder and more expensive to access, and the price of energy keeps climbing. The bad news is that the only viable alternatives currently are nuclear and hydro power stations.

Advocates of solar power will have to face the reality that the energy supplied is intermittent, though fairly predictable, expensive, requires huge areas of cells (which require regular cleaning to maintain efficiency) and there is no known means of storing the quantities of power needed to maintain a regular supply.

True.

Now some posters have come up listing alternative energy sources, fair and good. However, I am missing a special energy technique in these listings.

Thailand due to its high sunny-days rate days is a near to ideal location for hydrothermal solar plants.

In the south of Spain, EU combined efforts have built a project plant. It uses sunlight caught in half-rounded (half-parabolic) polished stainless steel mirrors to heaten a tube amidst their core that contains running water. The water is thus heated up to such high degrees, that a small and short input of more heating energy results in steam, which is used to propel turbines.

Thais should send their engineers to such places to learn about the dynamics of hydrothermal energy. Oil/Gas or nuclear based technologies are all but leading towards a dead end road.

Edited February 22, 2013 by crazygreg44

[Mosha]

There is no doubt that fossil fuels will run out, perhaps not in 10 years, but eventually. In the meanwhile, they become harder and more expensive to access, and the price of energy keeps climbing. The bad news is that the only viable alternatives currently are nuclear and hydro power stations.

Advocates of solar power will have to face the reality that the energy supplied is intermittent, though fairly predictable, expensive, requires huge areas of cells (which require regular cleaning to maintain efficiency) and there is no known means of storing the quantities of power needed to maintain a regular supply.

2030 or maybe before. The world will have passed peak oil production. If the USA example is anything to go by, the downward slope is far steeper than the upside.

[Mudcrab]

Its a difficult topic. being behind the energy curve, and wanting to become a manufacturing center, I dont see how TL can avoid nuclear power. If some can show me a practical way of getting there, i'd like to see it because with its contamination potential regardless of how remote the chance is, nuclear power should be avoided.

Coal, oil, natural gas, geothermal, hydroelectric, wind, solar, biofuel, and nuclear.

of these, the first 5 and nuclear are practical.

yes Germany is doing great things with solar, but its only available in the day. so you have to have the power plants for the dark periods, and its difficult to start and stop the boilers/turbines for power generation, so you would have to keep them running on standby even if you had solar.

TL has little to no geothermal I know of (please correct me if i'm wrong)

Hydroelectric - political problem,both domestic and foreign, plus limited potential

Nuclear - internal political issues

Wind - not reliable and low potential

biofuel - I dont know about TL's biomass potential.

That leaves the fossils of which we are running out, or can import at 3x the domestic cost.

Not a lot of options out there for TL

Am i missing something?

Don't discount biofuel i.e. waste from agricultural production. Brazil (and Australia, but nowhere near to the same extent) produces a lot of power from sugar cane waste and from ethanol production - cars can run on 98% ethanol. We hear about the smoke haze from rice paddies burning...all that energy is going to waste.

This does not provide base load power but can offset the use of other fuels significantly when available.

Edited February 22, 2013 by Mudcrab

[Mudcrab]

Its a difficult topic. being behind the energy curve, and wanting to become a manufacturing center, I dont see how TL can avoid nuclear power. If some can show me a practical way of getting there, i'd like to see it because with its contamination potential regardless of how remote the chance is, nuclear power should be avoided.

Coal, oil, natural gas, geothermal, hydroelectric, wind, solar, biofuel, and nuclear.

of these, the first 5 and nuclear are practical.

yes Germany is doing great things with solar, but its only available in the day. so you have to have the power plants for the dark periods, and its difficult to start and stop the boilers/turbines for power generation, so you would have to keep them running on standby even if you had solar.

TL has little to no geothermal I know of (please correct me if i'm wrong)

Hydroelectric - political problem,both domestic and foreign, plus limited potential

Nuclear - internal political issues

Wind - not reliable and low potential

biofuel - I dont know about TL's biomass potential.

That leaves the fossils of which we are running out, or can import at 3x the domestic cost.

Not a lot of options out there for TL

Am i missing something?

I think some solar would do well in Thailand: A lot sun results in increase demand because of the airconditions.

Less sun less aircons.

Night less aircon

raining less aircon.

Of course solar isn't the solution for every problem but a few % might be nice in Thailand.

Solar power (home systems) has become a big issue in Australia because the various State Governments subsidised the installations. What they didn't expect was the massive uptake of the technology and subsequent loss of revenue. They still have to maintain the poles and wires regardless...and supply power at night. However this could be (is) a very good technology on a village basis to adopt, particulalry when combined with a battery storage system to allow for power generation to continue at night.

[Mudcrab]

There is no doubt that fossil fuels will run out, perhaps not in 10 years, but eventually. In the meanwhile, they become harder and more expensive to access, and the price of energy keeps climbing. The bad news is that the only viable alternatives currently are nuclear and hydro power stations.

Advocates of solar power will have to face the reality that the energy supplied is intermittent, though fairly predictable, expensive, requires huge areas of cells (which require regular cleaning to maintain efficiency) and there is no known means of storing the quantities of power needed to maintain a regular supply.

True.

Now some posters have come up listing alternative energy sources, fair and good. However, I am missing a special energy technique in these listings.

Thailand due to its high sunny-days rate days is a near to ideal location for hydrothermal solar plants.

In the south of Spain, EU combined efforts have built a project plant. It uses sunlight caught in half-rounded (half-parabolic) polished stainless steel mirrors to heaten a tube amidst their core that contains running water. The water is thus heated up to such high degrees, that a small and short input of more heating energy results in steam, which is used to propel turbines.

Thais should send their engineers to such places to learn about the dynamics of hydrothermal energy. Oil/Gas or nuclear based technologies are all but leading towards a dead end road.

Unfortunately Spain went broke due in part due to the inefficient high cost green initiatives that they had undertaken. California same thing..greenie feel good pipe dreams.

Edited February 22, 2013 by Mudcrab

[Pimay1]

There is no doubt that fossil fuels will run out, perhaps not in 10 years, but eventually. In the meanwhile, they become harder and more expensive to access, and the price of energy keeps climbing. The bad news is that the only viable alternatives currently are nuclear and hydro power stations.

Advocates of solar power will have to face the reality that the energy supplied is intermittent, though fairly predictable, expensive, requires huge areas of cells (which require regular cleaning to maintain efficiency) and there is no known means of storing the quantities of power needed to maintain a regular supply.

2030 or maybe before. The world will have passed peak oil production. If the USA example is anything to go by, the downward slope is far steeper than the upside.

There is enough oil underground in the US to make it totally independent of foreign oil for more than 100 years. The problem is the environmentalist nut cases and the liberal press are partners in preventing drilling. It may harm the snails or frogs.

[Noistar]

Its a difficult topic. being behind the energy curve, and wanting to become a manufacturing center, I dont see how TL can avoid nuclear power. If some can show me a practical way of getting there, i'd like to see it because with its contamination potential regardless of how remote the chance is, nuclear power should be avoided.

Coal, oil, natural gas, geothermal, hydroelectric, wind, solar, biofuel, and nuclear.

of these, the first 5 and nuclear are practical.

yes Germany is doing great things with solar, but its only available in the day. so you have to have the power plants for the dark periods, and its difficult to start and stop the boilers/turbines for power generation, so you would have to keep them running on standby even if you had solar.

TL has little to no geothermal I know of (please correct me if i'm wrong)

Hydroelectric - political problem,both domestic and foreign, plus limited potential

Nuclear - internal political issues

Wind - not reliable and low potential

biofuel - I dont know about TL's biomass potential.

That leaves the fossils of which we are running out, or can import at 3x the domestic cost.

Not a lot of options out there for TL

Am i missing something?

I think some solar would do well in Thailand: A lot sun results in increase demand because of the airconditions.

Less sun less aircons.

Night less aircon

raining less aircon.

Of course solar isn't the solution for every problem but a few % might be nice in Thailand.

As it's hot at night the air cons are on in our place. During the day we're not at home, so it's only when it's 'cool' that the aircon comes on.

[Ian Curtis]

Avoiding nuclear power is a very backward thinking. Sure, lets burn some more coal! Amazing Thailand.

Nuclear power is all well and good, but what will Thailand do with the spent fuel rods - Where will it store them? Or will they ship them to the UK or Japan for reprocessing.

This is the big question and a definitive reply should be given before any work begins on a nuclear power station - or am I dreaming!

Radioactive waste includes both short-lived isotopes which are highly radioactive, and isotopes with very long half-lives (such as plutonium-239, half-life of 24 000 years, formed from uranium-238). The waste is kept in storage tanks for years to allow the 'high level' wastes to decay to less active or suitable isotopes.

Nuclear power station operators would like to store all wastes deep underground - but where?? Another very big problem is how to decommission a nuclear power station when it becomes obsolete? A large , slightly radioactive mass of building material has to be made safe! - and this could involve burying the whole site in concrete.

I wonder what dear Plod would think of this - getting his head round 24 000 years into the future?

Of course, in years to come, technology may find a way of neutralising the highly radioactive rods which means burying them SOMEWHERE so that they can be accessed when (or if) the time comes.

Hmmm

[Mosha]

There is no doubt that fossil fuels will run out, perhaps not in 10 years, but eventually. In the meanwhile, they become harder and more expensive to access, and the price of energy keeps climbing. The bad news is that the only viable alternatives currently are nuclear and hydro power stations.

Advocates of solar power will have to face the reality that the energy supplied is intermittent, though fairly predictable, expensive, requires huge areas of cells (which require regular cleaning to maintain efficiency) and there is no known means of storing the quantities of power needed to maintain a regular supply.

2030 or maybe before. The world will have passed peak oil production. If the USA example is anything to go by, the downward slope is far steeper than the upside.

There is enough oil underground in the US to make it totally independent of foreign oil for more than 100 years. The problem is the environmentalist nut cases and the liberal press are partners in preventing drilling. It may harm the snails or frogs.

It's their planet too. Incidentally, the USA peak all production was reached decades ago. Humans need cheap alternatives, but it's not in the oil companies best interests is it?

[otherstuff1957]

You would think that thailand would be one of the worlds leaders in solar power and wind power

There actually isn't enough wind in Thailand to justify investing in wind power, but solar could supply a very large portion of Thailand's energy needs.

I'm going to have my students build and use a "solar cooker" during the upcoming English Summer Camp. People need to realize that there are more ways to use solar power than just PV cells.

[OzMick]

There is no doubt that fossil fuels will run out, perhaps not in 10 years, but eventually. In the meanwhile, they become harder and more expensive to access, and the price of energy keeps climbing. The bad news is that the only viable alternatives currently are nuclear and hydro power stations.

Advocates of solar power will have to face the reality that the energy supplied is intermittent, though fairly predictable, expensive, requires huge areas of cells (which require regular cleaning to maintain efficiency) and there is no known means of storing the quantities of power needed to maintain a regular supply.

True.

Now some posters have come up listing alternative energy sources, fair and good. However, I am missing a special energy technique in these listings.

Thailand due to its high sunny-days rate days is a near to ideal location for hydrothermal solar plants.

In the south of Spain, EU combined efforts have built a project plant. It uses sunlight caught in half-rounded (half-parabolic) polished stainless steel mirrors to heaten a tube amidst their core that contains running water. The water is thus heated up to such high degrees, that a small and short input of more heating energy results in steam, which is used to propel turbines.

Thais should send their engineers to such places to learn about the dynamics of hydrothermal energy. Oil/Gas or nuclear based technologies are all but leading towards a dead end road.

Still has all the negatives associated with photovoltaic cells, the biggest being capacity factor - it only produces power <30% of the day.

[otherstuff1957]

I seem to be having some trouble with the quote function. I was responding to Pimay1's post:

There is enough oil underground in the US to make it totally independent of foreign oil for more than 100 years. The problem is the environmentalist nut cases and the liberal press are partners in preventing drilling. It may harm the snails or frogs.

This is true, but you are oversimplifying the facts.

The US has passed the peak production of cheap and easily available oil. The large reserves that are left are mostly in the form of oil shales, tar sands, etc. These oil reserves have not been exploited in part because of environmental concerns, but even more because the cost of extracting and refining this oil is still in excess of the cost of buying cheap oil from overseas.

The US oil companies are now investing in "fracking" techniques which will enable them extract oil from these less accessible oil sources. Using these new technologies, the US is expected to become a net oil exporter within the next two decades. However, these new sources of oil do not necessarily mean that we will return to the days of a cheap, seemingly endless supply of fuel. Instead, it means that experts in the field expect that oil prices will be consistently high enough to justify investing in these more expensive sources of fuel.

This new supply of oil will probably not benefit Thailand, as the experts are probably expecting fuel demand from China to keep the prices up.

Edited February 23, 2013 by otherstuff1957

[crazygreg44]

There is no doubt that fossil fuels will run out, perhaps not in 10 years, but eventually. In the meanwhile, they become harder and more expensive to access, and the price of energy keeps climbing. The bad news is that the only viable alternatives currently are nuclear and hydro power stations.

Advocates of solar power will have to face the reality that the energy supplied is intermittent, though fairly predictable, expensive, requires huge areas of cells (which require regular cleaning to maintain efficiency) and there is no known means of storing the quantities of power needed to maintain a regular supply.

True.

Now some posters have come up listing alternative energy sources, fair and good. However, I am missing a special energy technique in these listings.

Thailand due to its high sunny-days rate days is a near to ideal location for hydrothermal solar plants.

In the south of Spain, EU combined efforts have built a project plant. It uses sunlight caught in half-rounded (half-parabolic) polished stainless steel mirrors to heaten a tube amidst their core that contains running water. The water is thus heated up to such high degrees, that a small and short input of more heating energy results in steam, which is used to propel turbines.

Thais should send their engineers to such places to learn about the dynamics of hydrothermal energy. Oil/Gas or nuclear based technologies are all but leading towards a dead end road.

Still has all the negatives associated with photovoltaic cells, the biggest being capacity factor - it only produces power <30% of the day.

you did not read the topic. It has nothing to do with photovoltaics. It means use of the sun as a gigantic cooker . . I agree that there is the yet unsolved storage problem. If technology would follow, one can use the energy at it's moment of creation to generate hydrogen, which can be stored in tanks and can be released when needed.

Edited February 23, 2013 by crazygreg44

[OzMick]

There is no doubt that fossil fuels will run out, perhaps not in 10 years, but eventually. In the meanwhile, they become harder and more expensive to access, and the price of energy keeps climbing. The bad news is that the only viable alternatives currently are nuclear and hydro power stations.

Advocates of solar power will have to face the reality that the energy supplied is intermittent, though fairly predictable, expensive, requires huge areas of cells (which require regular cleaning to maintain efficiency) and there is no known means of storing the quantities of power needed to maintain a regular supply.

True.

Now some posters have come up listing alternative energy sources, fair and good. However, I am missing a special energy technique in these listings.

Thailand due to its high sunny-days rate days is a near to ideal location for hydrothermal solar plants.

In the south of Spain, EU combined efforts have built a project plant. It uses sunlight caught in half-rounded (half-parabolic) polished stainless steel mirrors to heaten a tube amidst their core that contains running water. The water is thus heated up to such high degrees, that a small and short input of more heating energy results in steam, which is used to propel turbines.

Thais should send their engineers to such places to learn about the dynamics of hydrothermal energy. Oil/Gas or nuclear based technologies are all but leading towards a dead end road.

Still has all the negatives associated with photovoltaic cells, the biggest being capacity factor - it only produces power <30% of the day.

you did not read the topic. It has nothing to do with photovoltaics. It means use of the sun as a gigantic cooker . . I agree that there is the yet unsolved storage problem. If technology would follow, one can use the energy at it's moment of creation to generate hydrogen, which can be stored in tanks and can be released when needed.

I did read your post, and the solar method you advocate still only produces power when the sun shines.

Having worked with hydrogen gas for over 30 years, I can assure you that it is a nasty, dangerous substance prone to leaking, spontaneous ignition (from static), extremely hot and difficult to see flames (in direct sunlight) and a very wide explosive range. The technology is not new, and AFAIK nobody is even attempting hydrogen generation, storage and burning as an energy storage method.

[LongTimeLurker]

"The alternative to using existing natural gas is importing the expensive Liquified Natural Gas (LNG) which costs three times as much. Right now, about 25 percent of Thailand’s imported natural gas in LNG, but that percentage may double in the next 15 years, after the natural gas supply is gone"

More than double, the curent capacity is 10MTA and that will be doubled to 20MTA in the next 5 years with a further 5 MTA being added to the existing facility after that and a second LNG terminal of 10MTA by 2021.

So in 10 years they will have gone from 10MTA to 35MTA. If the current import is 25% we're looking at nearly 90% by 2021.

The only thing that may hold it back is the price of the LNG as only a couple of years ago the government couldn't afford to buy it, now they can't afford not to.

Edited February 24, 2013 by LongTimeLurker

[Gary A]

Out of natural gas in ten years? Not likely. There are capped gas wells in the Gulf right now. International oil companies are NOT drilling for natural gas, they want oil. The natural gas Thailand uses is basically free. That's the deal Thailand gets from the oil companies for the rights to drill for oil in the Gulf. The cost for Thai natural gas is the cost of the pipelines to get it to shore.

[harrry]

Just getting people ready for a big rise in the price of gas.

not a good time to convert.

[apetley]

There is no doubt that fossil fuels will run out, perhaps not in 10 years, but eventually. In the meanwhile, they become harder and more expensive to access, and the price of energy keeps climbing. The bad news is that the only viable alternatives currently are nuclear and hydro power stations.

Advocates of solar power will have to face the reality that the energy supplied is intermittent, though fairly predictable, expensive, requires huge areas of cells (which require regular cleaning to maintain efficiency) and there is no known means of storing the quantities of power needed to maintain a regular supply.

True.

Now some posters have come up listing alternative energy sources, fair and good. However, I am missing a special energy technique in these listings.

Thailand due to its high sunny-days rate days is a near to ideal location for hydrothermal solar plants.

In the south of Spain, EU combined efforts have built a project plant. It uses sunlight caught in half-rounded (half-parabolic) polished stainless steel mirrors to heaten a tube amidst their core that contains running water. The water is thus heated up to such high degrees, that a small and short input of more heating energy results in steam, which is used to propel turbines.

Thais should send their engineers to such places to learn about the dynamics of hydrothermal energy. Oil/Gas or nuclear based technologies are all but leading towards a dead end road.

Still has all the negatives associated with photovoltaic cells, the biggest being capacity factor - it only produces power <30% of the day.

you did not read the topic. It has nothing to do with photovoltaics. It means use of the sun as a gigantic cooker . . I agree that there is the yet unsolved storage problem. If technology would follow, one can use the energy at it's moment of creation to generate hydrogen, which can be stored in tanks and can be released when needed.

I did read your post, and the solar method you advocate still only produces power when the sun shines.

Having worked with hydrogen gas for over 30 years, I can assure you that it is a nasty, dangerous substance prone to leaking, spontaneous ignition (from static), extremely hot and difficult to see flames (in direct sunlight) and a very wide explosive range. The technology is not new, and AFAIK nobody is even attempting hydrogen generation, storage and burning as an energy storage method.

Try googling ITM. A British company at the cutting edge of Hydrogen generation and storage.