Peace May Be Achieved If South Handed To Southerners: Thailand

[simple1]

Glad to see there is still stupid ideas on the subject. This thread is about as comical as the Governments constantly dumb idea parade.

Turn it over to the Muslims and then the two different factions will be fighting amongst them selves. The Sunni and the Shiites can't get along with each other.

Sorry about the spelling.

Deep South is 99% Sunni. As far as I know their is not a Sunni/Shiite rift in Thailand - at least never been reported that their has ever been any violence or tension between these two groups in Thailand. As you will be aware in other countries violence between the two is primarily along political power and commerce interests.

[Denizen]

In regard to those who are referring to Southern Thailand being part of Malaysia before 1900, Malaysia did not exist until the British cobbled it together from a bunch of disparate elements of their colonial adventurism.

I bet the people of Sarawak and Sabah would not make the same choice again if they knew their resources would be pillaged for the good of Bumiputra excluding Indians, Chinese and natives of Sarawak and Sabah. The natives don't cut the mustard as Bumiputra.

Edited February 23, 2013 by Denizen

[OzMick]

Glad to see there is still stupid ideas on the subject. This thread is about as comical as the Governments constantly dumb idea parade.

Turn it over to the Muslims and then the two different factions will be fighting amongst them selves. The Sunni and the Shiites can't get along with each other.

Sorry about the spelling.

Deep South is 99% Sunni. As far as I know their is not a Sunni/Shiite rift in Thailand - at least never been reported that their has ever been any violence or tension between these two groups in Thailand. As you will be aware in other countries violence between the two is primarily along political power and commerce interests.

"As you are aware" is not a replacement for IMHO. I am not "aware" of suicide bombers acting for "political power and commerce interests". I am aware of religious intolerance and hatred though.

[simple1]

Glad to see there is still stupid ideas on the subject. This thread is about as comical as the Governments constantly dumb idea parade.

Turn it over to the Muslims and then the two different factions will be fighting amongst them selves. The Sunni and the Shiites can't get along with each other.

Sorry about the spelling.

Deep South is 99% Sunni. As far as I know their is not a Sunni/Shiite rift in Thailand - at least never been reported that their has ever been any violence or tension between these two groups in Thailand. As you will be aware in other countries violence between the two is primarily along political power and commerce interests.

"As you are aware" is not a replacement for IMHO. I am not "aware" of suicide bombers acting for "political power and commerce interests". I am aware of religious intolerance and hatred though.

Edited February 23, 2013 by simple1

[Mosha]

Glad to see there is still stupid ideas on the subject. This thread is about as comical as the Governments constantly dumb idea parade.

Turn it over to the Muslims and then the two different factions will be fighting amongst them selves. The Sunni and the Shiites can't get along with each other.

Sorry about the spelling.

Deep South is 99% Sunni. As far as I know their is not a Sunni/Shiite rift in Thailand - at least never been reported that their has ever been any violence or tension between these two groups in Thailand. As you will be aware in other countries violence between the two is primarily along political power and commerce interests.

Shia muslim don't consider the sunni as muslim.

[simple1]

Glad to see there is still stupid ideas on the subject. This thread is about as comical as the Governments constantly dumb idea parade.

Turn it over to the Muslims and then the two different factions will be fighting amongst them selves. The Sunni and the Shiites can't get along with each other.

Sorry about the spelling.

Deep South is 99% Sunni. As far as I know their is not a Sunni/Shiite rift in Thailand - at least never been reported that their has ever been any violence or tension between these two groups in Thailand. As you will be aware in other countries violence between the two is primarily along political power and commerce interests.

Shia muslim don't consider the sunni as muslim.

Correct, some fundamentalists from both branches have that view to justify killings. In my opinion, the vast majority of interfaith killing is maneuvering for political power, ergo money.

e.g. Last year in Pakistan 400 Shiites were murdered, but it is reasonable to believe the killings are actually an endeavour by extremists to destabalise the Pakistani central government. It is claimed that since 9/11, 4,000 members of the Pakistani military have been killed in fighting with extremists. On the other side of the coin, it is claimed elements in the military support fundamentalists/extremists as they wish to replace the civilian government.

[Denizen]

The Saudi Sunni salafists are exporting terrorists all over the world and are a cause of much of the conflict in the Middle East in Iraq and Syria.

The USA armed, financed and used Sunni salafist fanatics in the 1980s against Russians in Afghanistan. They eventually turned against the USA and spread their attention widely around the world.

Southern Thailand and Malaysia are beset by problems of their citizens attending fanatic religious schools in Saudi Arabia and other locations and then returning to spread fanaticism.

Malaysia has a real problem with Sunni salafist fanatics, zealots and those who seek their support for political ends.

[Sing_Sling]

In regard to those who are referring to Southern Thailand being part of Malaysia before 1900, Malaysia did not exist until the British cobbled it together from a bunch of disparate elements of their colonial adventurism.

I bet the people of Sarawak and Sabah would not make the same choice again if they knew their resources would be pillaged for the good of Bumiputra excluding Indians, Chinese and natives of Sarawak and Sabah. The natives don't cut the mustard as Bumiputra.

You are quite incorrect again. Sabahans, Sarawakians, Orang Asli, Northern 'Thais' and quite a few Chinese and Indians are indeed Bumiputeras. Half-Caucasian Bumis also exist.

May I suggest you read up on that.

In my close to five years living here and going back and forth between here and Singapore for the last 11 years I have pretty much heard as many misconceptions about bot countries as there are.

[Denizen]

Dear Mr. Sing Sling below is some evidence for you of Malaysia being a hotbed of Islamic extremism and Jihadists. Not just among the poverty stricken but even university students. Please consider.

http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/afp_asiapacific/view/1101349/1/.html

KUALA LUMPUR - Malaysia's universities have become prime recruiting grounds for Islamic militants looking for youngsters to draw into terrorist networks, security experts warn.

Unlike neighbouring Indonesia and Thailand, the moderate Muslim-majority nation has remained largely free of terror attacks but there are fears that lax admission policies have created a haven for jihadists.

Edited February 24, 2013 by metisdead
: Edited for fair use.

[Denizen]

In regard to those who are referring to Southern Thailand being part of Malaysia before 1900, Malaysia did not exist until the British cobbled it together from a bunch of disparate elements of their colonial adventurism.

I bet the people of Sarawak and Sabah would not make the same choice again if they knew their resources would be pillaged for the good of Bumiputra excluding Indians, Chinese and natives of Sarawak and Sabah. The natives don't cut the mustard as Bumiputra.

You are quite incorrect again. Sabahans, Sarawakians, Orang Asli, Northern 'Thais' and quite a few Chinese and Indians are indeed Bumiputeras. Half-Caucasian Bumis also exist.

May I suggest you read up on that.

In my close to five years living here and going back and forth between here and Singapore for the last 11 years I have pretty much heard as many misconceptions about bot countries as there are.

Please consider:

• The Bumiputera (or Bumiputra) is derived from the Sanskrit word 'Bhumiputra', which roughly translated means 'sons of the soil'. In both Malaysia and Brunei, the term is used to refer to a member of majority Malay ethnic group. ...
• http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bumiputera_(Brunei)

Can you link me to your propaganda source? Note above reference to "majority Malay ethnic group".

I have been to various states of Malaysia and it is very evident that native Sabah and Sarawak people are not treated as Bumiputera despite propaganda the government of Malaysia may publish.

Please consider.

Edited February 24, 2013 by Denizen

[metisdead]

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[Sing_Sling]

In regard to those who are referring to Southern Thailand being part of Malaysia before 1900, Malaysia did not exist until the British cobbled it together from a bunch of disparate elements of their colonial adventurism.

I bet the people of Sarawak and Sabah would not make the same choice again if they knew their resources would be pillaged for the good of Bumiputra excluding Indians, Chinese and natives of Sarawak and Sabah. The natives don't cut the mustard as Bumiputra.

You are quite incorrect again. Sabahans, Sarawakians, Orang Asli, Northern 'Thais' and quite a few Chinese and Indians are indeed Bumiputeras. Half-Caucasian Bumis also exist.

May I suggest you read up on that.

In my close to five years living here and going back and forth between here and Singapore for the last 11 years I have pretty much heard as many misconceptions about bot countries as there are.

Please consider:

• The Bumiputera (or Bumiputra) is derived from the Sanskrit word 'Bhumiputra', which roughly translated means 'sons of the soil'. In both Malaysia and Brunei, the term is used to refer to a member of majority Malay ethnic group. ...
• http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bumiputera_(Brunei)

Can you link me to your propaganda source? Note above reference to "majority Malay ethnic group".

I have been to various states of Malaysia and it is very evident that native Sabah and Sarawak people are not treated as Bumiputera despite propaganda the government of Malaysia may publish.

Please consider.

Sigh . . . I live here. My business partner is Indian (Christian Indian) and he has Bumi status because his Mum is Iban - Christian Iban. Our office in Kota Kinabalu is managed by a Kadazan - he is a Bumi.

Basing your arguments solely on Wiki is ill-advised but if you really want to . . .:

Definition

The concept of a bumiputra ethnic group in Malaysia was coined by activist Tunku Abdul Rahman. It recognized the "special position" of the Malays provided in the Federal Constitution of Malaysia, in particular Article 153. But, the constitution does not use the term "bumiputra"; it defines only "Malay" and "indigenous peoples" (Article 160(2)),^[2]"natives" of Sarawak (161A(6)(a)),^[3] and "natives" of Sabah (Article 161A(6)()

This from your own link - so, why not read the article before you post it to back up your thoughts. You can't bend the facts to suit your arguments.

Please consider

[Sing_Sling]

Denizen, this is also from your source. Please, please . . . in a discussion try to not mislead or misquote. It states clearly who is considered a Bumi - so why state the opposite.

Your source completely contradicted your assertion:

• Peninsular Malaysia
  • "If one of the parents is Muslim Malay/Orang Asli^[5] as stated in Article 160 (2) Federal Constitution of Malaysia; thus the child is considered as a Bumiputra"
• Sabah
  • "If one of the parents is a Muslim Malay or indigenous native of Sabah as stated in Article 160A (6)(a) Federal Constitution of Malaysia; thus his child is considered as a Bumiputra"
• Sarawak
  • "If both of the parent are indigenous natives of Sarawak as stated in Article 160A (6)( Federal Constitution of Malaysia; thus their child is considered as a Bumiputra"

Malays. Indigenous Sabahans. Indigenous Sarawakians. Orang Asli anywhere in Malaysia, people with one parent being any of the above etc....

The list goes on . . .

[Sing_Sling]

In regard to those who are referring to Southern Thailand being part of Malaysia before 1900, Malaysia did not exist until the British cobbled it together from a bunch of disparate elements of their colonial adventurism.

I bet the people of Sarawak and Sabah would not make the same choice again if they knew their resources would be pillaged for the good of Bumiputra excluding Indians, Chinese and natives of Sarawak and Sabah. The natives don't cut the mustard as Bumiputra.

Shall I reiterate?

• Peninsular Malaysia
  • "If one of the parents is Muslim Malay/Orang Asli^[5] as stated in Article 160 (2) Federal Constitution of Malaysia; thus the child is considered as a Bumiputra"
• Sabah
  • "If one of the parents is a Muslim Malay or indigenous native of Sabah as stated in Article 160A (6)(a) Federal Constitution of Malaysia; thus his child is considered as a Bumiputra"
• Sarawak
  • "If both of the parent are indigenous natives of Sarawak as stated in Article 160A (6)( Federal Constitution of Malaysia; thus their child is considered as a Bumiputra"

I'm still waiting to see some form of evidence that the Malaysian government is involved in supporting the Thai insurgents - official support . . . really?

Malaysia has offered their support to mediate between the parties, jut like it did successfully in the Philippines . . . but Thailand being Thailand . . .

[simple1]

The Saudi Sunni salafists are exporting terrorists all over the world and are a cause of much of the conflict in the Middle East in Iraq and Syria.

The USA armed, financed and used Sunni salafist fanatics in the 1980s against Russians in Afghanistan. They eventually turned against the USA and spread their attention widely around the world.

Southern Thailand and Malaysia are beset by problems of their citizens attending fanatic religious schools in Saudi Arabia and other locations and then returning to spread fanaticism.

Malaysia has a real problem with Sunni salafist fanatics, zealots and those who seek their support for political ends.

Yes, primarily Saudi based Wahhabi adherents providing funding and "teachers". USA knows this and yet sells weapons and provides assistance to the Saudi Sunni dictatorship. Also to other Sunni dictatorships to limit Shiite influence in the region.

Whilst I do not agree with all the sentiments expressed, an interesting article that talks to the US/Saudi relationship and it's history below.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/us-sponsored-islamic-fundamentalism-the-roots-of-the-us-wahhabi-alliance/5303558

[Pops]

Give them an inch, they will try to take a mile me thinks. These figures I find to be quite concerning.

In these nine years, only 250 identified combatants were killed compared to 750 policemen and soldiers.

Omits to mention that far more Muslims are being murdered in the Deep South, than Buddhists. This is rarely discussed as to why, I assume due to business/political disputes, drug and smuggling gang related activities.

"from Jan 4, 2004 until Jan 31, 2011 there were 4,186 deaths of which 1,737 were Buddhists and 2,331 were Muslims"

Is it not so that the majority of people living in the south are muslim ??

You should actually look how big of a percentage this represents of either muslims or buddhists.

[Pops]

Give them an inch, they will try to take a mile me thinks. These figures I find to be quite concerning.

In these nine years, only 250 identified combatants were killed compared to 750 policemen and soldiers.

Omits to mention that far more Muslims are being murdered in the Deep South, than Buddhists. This is rarely discussed as to why, I assume due to business/political disputes, drug and smuggling gang related activities.

"from Jan 4, 2004 until Jan 31, 2011 there were 4,186 deaths of which 1,737 were Buddhists and 2,331 were Muslims"

What is unusual with the numbers? I would expect that in a predominately muslim area more muslims would be dying when roadside bombs and shopping centers are targeted. Take Pattani province. It is 88% muslim. With the numbers you provide, if anything, it is the Buddhists that are dying in disproportionate numbers.

The areas where there is the most violence have muslim majorities.

Actual numbers of civilians killed by IEDs and shopping center bombings is relatively minimal. The large majority of the killings is with firearms

Still makes the numbers of buddhists dying disproportionate khun Simple !

[simple1]

Give them an inch, they will try to take a mile me thinks. These figures I find to be quite concerning.

In these nine years, only 250 identified combatants were killed compared to 750 policemen and soldiers.

Omits to mention that far more Muslims are being murdered in the Deep South, than Buddhists. This is rarely discussed as to why, I assume due to business/political disputes, drug and smuggling gang related activities.

"from Jan 4, 2004 until Jan 31, 2011 there were 4,186 deaths of which 1,737 were Buddhists and 2,331 were Muslims"

Is it not so that the majority of people living in the south are muslim ??

You should actually look how big of a percentage this represents of either muslims or buddhists.

You appear to have overlooked the consistent theme that Thai Malay Muslims are primarily targeting those Buddhists aligned to the Thai State. I am highlighting that by actual numbers more Muslims are being murdered than Buddhists. Therefore their is a sub text happening with the killings in the Deep South that is very rarely debated.

BTW if you wish to make not so subtle derogatory comments based upon my user name, post #108, you're the simpleton

Edited February 24, 2013 by simple1

[Denizen]

Denizen, this is also from your source. Please, please . . . in a discussion try to not mislead or misquote. It states clearly who is considered a Bumi - so why state the opposite.

Your source completely contradicted your assertion:

• Peninsular Malaysia
  • "If one of the parents is Muslim Malay/Orang Asli^[5] as stated in Article 160 (2) Federal Constitution of Malaysia; thus the child is considered as a Bumiputra"

• Sabah
  • "If one of the parents is a Muslim Malay or indigenous native of Sabah as stated in Article 160A (6)(a) Federal Constitution of Malaysia; thus his child is considered as a Bumiputra"

• Sarawak
  • "If both of the parent are indigenous natives of Sarawak as stated in Article 160A (6)( Federal Constitution of Malaysia; thus their child is considered as a Bumiputra"

Malays. Indigenous Sabahans. Indigenous Sarawakians. Orang Asli anywhere in Malaysia, people with one parent being any of the above etc....

The list goes on . . .

Dear Mr. Sing Sling,

I apologize for enlightening you. I wasn't aware that it would cause you to suffer cognitive dissonance.

There are probably multiple shades of bumiputra in Malysia depending on how deeply your Muslim convictions and your political connections reach. I suspect natives of Sarawak and Sabah would not rank much above bottom on the bumiputra scale of measure.

[Sing_Sling]

Denizen, this is also from your source. Please, please . . . in a discussion try to not mislead or misquote. It states clearly who is considered a Bumi - so why state the opposite.

Your source completely contradicted your assertion:

• Peninsular Malaysia
  • "If one of the parents is Muslim Malay/Orang Asli^[5] as stated in Article 160 (2) Federal Constitution of Malaysia; thus the child is considered as a Bumiputra"
• Sabah
  • "If one of the parents is a Muslim Malay or indigenous native of Sabah as stated in Article 160A (6)(a) Federal Constitution of Malaysia; thus his child is considered as a Bumiputra"
• Sarawak
  • "If both of the parent are indigenous natives of Sarawak as stated in Article 160A (6)( Federal Constitution of Malaysia; thus their child is considered as a Bumiputra"

Malays. Indigenous Sabahans. Indigenous Sarawakians. Orang Asli anywhere in Malaysia, people with one parent being any of the above etc....

The list goes on . . .

Dear Mr. Sing Sling,

I apologize for enlightening you. I wasn't aware that it would cause you to suffer cognitive dissonance.

There are probably multiple shades of bumiputra in Malysia depending on how deeply your Muslim convictions and your political connections reach. I suspect natives of Sarawak and Sabah would not rank much above bottom on the bumiputra scale of measure.

Nothing of the sort . . . I just like to discuss on a factual basis, not throwing around incorrect assertions . . . and as for Sarawakians and Sabahans not being above bottom, may I suggest you visit. It's a lovely place and they are definitely top of the table there . . . because they form the majority

[brfsa2]

New super-weapon of the Taliban: Philanthropy for Islamic education

25.02.2013

By Murray Hunter

If a frequent traveler to Thailand goes around the country today, a rapid rise in the prominence of Muslims will be noticed, stretching from Chiang Rai in the north of the country right down into the south of the country. Many of Thailand's 6-7 Million Muslins are totally integrated into Thai culture and society, a country that takes great pride in its cultural homogeneity. However in the South of Thailand, many, if not most Muslims still live in close knit rural villages undertaking traditional activities such as rubber tapping, fishing, and rice farming. A distinct culture, different from the mainstream "Thai" culture has been able to nurture in the relaxed air of religious freedom in Thailand.

http://english.pravda.ru/opinion/columnists/25-02-2013/123886-taliban_philanthropy-0/