Help With Lighting Layout, If You Wouldn't Mind, Please.

[Ackybang]

Hello everyone.

I have been a long time lurker, and have tried to contribute whenever I can, on a few posts, to help people with things I have experience in - now it's my turn to ask for some help.

Through many problems with Thai tradesmen, from the outset, aswell as pricing issues - I never wanted to, but have ended up building my house mainly myself with little in the way of experience, with the Mother in Law and my missus's help, and a bit of local labour drafted in from time to time.

I've ended up with a raised level, 200 square meter cavity wall red brick bungalow with a solar insulated cpac roof, and blah blah blah - I've taken my time, as I've never had a house of my own before, let alone designed and built one - I've used all the best materials I could find, and although it's not to pin point laser precision, I've surprised myself, and think it's going to be great when I've finished. My days of playing with lego finally paid off. I want a lovely house for future retirement, and as a base here, as I'd like to find some work / more cash somewhere else, perhaps.

Now, I've reached the stage where it's time to put the electrical and lighting layouts in. I have some experience with electrics, and can sort of get my head around the layout of sockets, etc, and how to chase in the conduit before plastering - but I do have a couple of questions pertaining to this - I think I'll ask on a different thread, to break it up a bit, and keep it exciting (Yawn).

My main queries are about lighting layout. I have no experience, and I've been on the net, and read books, but I've been sort of led around in circles, and have overdosed on information to the point where I'm just drawing a blank. Popping into light shops here, they don't seem to have much of a clue, or a compatible taste. I would like to call on any of your knowledge, if I might, or if you have the time, please could you give me some ideas from your own finished house or project, and tell me if there's anything you might have changed, or done differently in retrospect - just by looking up at your ceiling, or describing the light level / ambience in your rooms in relation to the size, and the amount of cans / fixtures would be a massive help to me. I live in a village, where most people have 1 flourescent light in their main room, and that's it - not that I'm knocking it - certainly practical, but I'm after a bit more. I want my own idea of a lovely home.

Sorry to be so long winded, or possibly even come across as anal. Some of my rooms are square / rectangular, and some are odd shaped. My ceilings will be about 3 meters. I'm trying to break the lights up into various theme / mood settings, depending on the room, using multiple, remote control, or master / slave dimmers. It would be the recessed cans giving me headaches - the wall lighting / spots / task / hanging light fixtures I 'think' I'll be okay with. Going on the size of your own rooms, could you recommend how many recessed lights, of how many inches, at what wattage would be enough for rooms of the following sizes, please - to provide a decent level of basic flood lighting (not vomit inducing, like 7-11), with the dimmer(s) on full ( as I may split the receesed lights into sections ) ? Not overkill. (Some say it's better to have too many, but I don't want my ceilings too busy, for nothing - also concerned about energy usage). Also, how far apart, and away from walls are they (worried about drop shadow on the walls, and 'even' lighting). Or, indeed, if you would or not recommend them in the first place - seems to be a common theme in Thailand, and I've forgotten about Western homes, as I've been in Asia around 20 Years already. I don't recall seeing too many over there ?

Master bedroom main area : 7 x 4 meters - rectangular. Walk in wardrobe 1.2 x 3 meters.

Mum's room : 5 x 4 meters - rectangular.

Office : 3 x 3 meters - square.

Two bathrooms 4 x 3 meters - rectangular.

Dining room 5 x 4 meters - rectangular.

Kitchen 5 x 4 meters - rectangular.

Lounge 8 x 8 meters - odd shaped.

Prayer room 5 x 2 meters - rectangular.

Other spaces and lights I think I'll be okay with. The lounge, office, dining room and kitchen all blend together, open plan with a couple of arches separating the office and kitchen from other areas.

Thanks for your help / any suggestions.... Even a decent internet / book / anyother reference would be helpful, but I would prefer real experience to guide me - people sat there, using the lights for real - or someone who designs lighting for a living would be amazing. (I do realise it might be subjective). Also, I've tracked down some really nice switches / remote master / slave dimmers (1-4 gang) in England - 'Varilight' - to avoid problems of walking backwards and forward to control the lights in any one room. Do any of you know, or have you seen any for sale in Thailand, or anything similar ? I've lived here for 17 Years, speak Thai / Laotian / Cambodian, travelled all over the Country, and can't find anyone who knows, or any suppliers of specialist lighting fixtures / fittings anywhere - other than the ordinary, bog standard stuff. Any recommendations ? Any experience of led lighting / specialist stuff you have been impressed with, or might recommend ? I'm not loaded, but would rather spend good money once, than cut corners and not be entirely satisfied with the result, and want to change later.

Again, thanks very much.

[bankruatsteve]

You asked a LOT, maybe somebody else will take it on. Otherwise, my thoughts are: for lighting features, such as dimming, I suggest you look into LED as the alternative is incandescent and that's not easy to find these days. I like recessed lighting and for like a 5x4m room at least 4 would be my suggestion. You could put the some of the room lights on one switch (or more) and put more lights on a different switch (or more) depending on the mood you want. ie: a little bit of light or a LOT - 4 lights on one switch another 4 on a different switch - or something like that. For bathrooms - you want a light above the shower and above the sink separate switch or not how you like, more lights if bigger room. etc. Track lighting is, in my opinion, only good for art work or other stuff like that you want to show off.

[Greenside]

I fitted a lot of recessed lights and chose a design from Lamptitude which were more expensive than the ones in HP or Global House but at the time the designs there were too "shiny" if you get me. I have 26w energy saving dimmer bulbs which are expensive initially (somewhere around 300 baht 18 months ago) but have performed very well and at this point I think they are a better bet than LED in many situations.

At the moment I am looking for a way to provide a decent amount of dimmable light in a living room space with a 3.9m ceiling. Halogens will do it but are costly to run.

[Ackybang]

Thanks for your reply, bankruatsteve - and thanks to those who sent me P.M's, with references - I really appreciate you taking the time.

I think perhaps my original request was too long winded, and actually appeared to ask for more than I wanted. My house wasn't designed by an architect - I did it myself with my girlfriend, and lighting / cosmetics are definitely something I took for granted as being easy, when in fact they are a discipline all of their own, to that end, I have no real, drawn out plans for lighting, other than very basic. I'm good at the practical side of things - general building, and working hard.

I am more after 'real' information pertaining to recessed lighting than anything, and providing anyone room with even flood lighting. Also, would any of you have a large, irregular shaped room, and did you follow any particular methodology for recessed lighting layout that room, or do you put the lights in an even grid, etc, regardless of the room's shape - or did you follow the outline of the room - is there a real, general rule of thumb ? This is the room that's really doing my nut.

Any info, or bits however small would be great, and appreciated, by any contributors. If anyone has similar sized rooms to the ones I posted, and you have receesed lights in that room, and you might find the time - please say how many cans you are using in that room, at what spacing / wattage - and is it enough or not, in your opinion.. I am asking, because I've been on so many websites, and there seems to be a lot of contradiction, so I would rather rely on peoples real experience. I am very interested in using LED's, as I want to future proof against energy usage / future expenditure across the board, and now they can be dimmed aswell, as far as I know, but I would still need to know how many cans are suitable for a particular sized room.

For instance, my bedroom 7x4 meters - I have been advised from 4 upto 11 recessed lights, depending on which website I visit - the American sites tend to favour more, it would seem. Too many options and choices seem to be getting the better of me.

Thanks again.

Edited March 27, 2013 by Ackybang

[krisb]

Op contact member David48. He's an electrician here in Australia. I'm sure he can help, he's a good guy.

[mrbojangles]

I am more after 'real' information pertaining to recessed lighting than anything, and providing anyone room with even flood lighting. Also, would any of you have a large, irregular shaped room, and did you follow any particular methodology for recessed lighting layout that room, or do you put the lights in an even grid, etc, regardless of the room's shape - or did you follow the outline of the room - is there a real, general rule of thumb ? This is the room that's really doing my nut.

.

I didn't have a clue what to do with mine and as I'm not living in Thailand I was always short of time to get into an in depth design. However, a decision had to be made so the electrician could get on with it.

In the end I decided to put just one sunken light fitting in each area and decided to see how that looked. By area I mean bang in the middle of the ceiling of every four pillars, so effectively every square if you get my drift. That way and with the wiring being easily accessable in the attic, it would be easy enough to add more were required. Surprisingly this turned out to be enough and there is plenty of light emitting from the ceiling (i used 60w per sq area). We will add table lamps or floor lamps as well when finished.

Here are a few of piccies from early into the build to try and show you what i mean.

[Ackybang]

Nice one, gents - and thanks for the references / photos - very useful..

I have decided to just chase all the wiring / boxes / conduit in, and take further time to work it out. I will be doing most of the the electric work myself, so am not under too much pressure to get it finished quickly (apart from the constant kind from the missus, of course).

That's very interesting to see 60 w is enough for each space - they look like fairly large areas too - around 4 meters wide x 6-7 meteres long ? Is that an 'L' shaped living room ?

I designed my house, so there are no visible posts atall anywhere - I used a truss system spanning the living room, to negate the need for a post in the middle of my lounge. It's around 8 x 9 meters, with a 45 degree corner cut out, and a recessed bit - ends up around 8 x 8, but irregular. I think you've perhaps inspired me to play around with one or two fittings before the ceiling goes up, and see what sort of effect they create. It looks as though I may be able to get away with a lot fewer than I thought.

Very nice of you all to reply.

Edited March 28, 2013 by Ackybang

[mrbojangles]

That's very interesting to see 60 w is enough for each space - they look like fairly large areas too - around 4 meters wide x 6-7 meteres long ? Is that an 'L' shaped living room ?

Each "area" is about 4m X 3.5m and so one 60w flourescent type lamp per area. And the "L" shape is split into the "I" part is the living room and the " _" part of the "L" is a sort of dining area. If that makes sense.

[bankruatsteve]

Maybe it's just my old eyes, but I can't really tell the diff with F-lights between 10W and 60W. Whatever, for placement you just want to make sure the light will hit, direct or indirect, any strategic places: counter tops, tables, entrances, etc. Use plug in lamps for reading - things like that. The "design" can be geometric or whatever feels good - who really looks at that?

[T_Dog]

You might consider mounting sconces on the walls so that you have indirect lighting. We did that on one side of the living room with rattan lights from Bantawai on the other side. Bedroom has sconces as well. Our carpenter made the scones out of teak and we did leave them open top and bottom. No harsh direct light... just a nice glow on the walls above photographs.

[wolf5370]

Wall up-lights can be nice too, moodwise.

In my room I have a central circular (fancy-ish) neon tube and a sunken spot light in each corner (about 1.5m out in each direction). I have low energy fairly low watt bulbs in the spots and use them when I want some dimmed atmosphere - and the central neon when I want light (like now). I also have an outside balcony with a ceiling that slopes down 30 degrees - in that I have another sunken light with a higher low energy bulb - so I can get some extra light by switching that on (switch is inside) as the light then comes through the glass balcony doors.

That way I don't have to worry about dimming, I simply switch lights over. I also have reading lights built into my bed headboard.

[Greenside]

I think one fitting in the centre is unlikely to be enough most people, particularly if you are getting on a bit. Also, If you decide to put more up you've pretty much got to go for four extra to balance it visually. I have 4 x 14w energy savers in downlights in our bedrooms (each about 4.5 x 4m) and for me it's barely enough - my little office space which is 3 x 3 has 4 x 26w dimmable energy savers placed around the edge of the room above my desks and it's fine. Mostly I determine the positions by finding the centre of the room and placing the fittings half way between the centre point and the walls.

[Ackybang]

I fitted a lot of recessed lights and chose a design from Lamptitude which were more expensive than the ones in HP or Global House but at the time the designs there were too "shiny" if you get me. I have 26w energy saving dimmer bulbs which are expensive initially (somewhere around 300 baht 18 months ago) but have performed very well and at this point I think they are a better bet than LED in many situations.

At the moment I am looking for a way to provide a decent amount of dimmable light in a living room space with a 3.9m ceiling. Halogens will do it but are costly to run.

Thanks for that link, Greenside. I had a look at their site, and downloaded the catalogue - they have some nice stuff, but nothing is priced. I actually emailed them a couple of weeks ago with some questions, and haven't received a reply. I have been busy farming the last few weeks, but have managed to almost finish my lighting and electrical layout inbetween working - lot more work / thought involved than I thought. Once it's complete, I'll be on here again with questions about the electrics for sure, as I'll probably be doing most of it by myself, by the looks of things.. Anyway, their shop / range looks very impressive - did you find anyone in there helpful / knowledgable about lighting / design, or are they just sales people ? Also, did they have stock of what you wanted ? It's quite a slog for me, but I will be clipping Bangers next Month on another mission - so would probably be popping in for a look / possible purchase.

Were they a lot more than Global / Thaiwadsadu etc ? Found alright sconces from 600-900 baht, matching pendant around 3-4,000 baht - cans from 69 - 3/400 baht - but yeah, a lot of the stuff looks very garish / tacky, to say the least. Also mate, just to pick your brain one last time - did you use specially rated lighting fixtures in your bathroom(s), or just bog standard stuff ? Am worried about switches and outlets in the bathrooms also, as the net seems to have conflicting information on this subject (aswell as everyother one).

I'm finding it hard to source energy saving dimmables in anything but two different wattages, and only in big bulb sizes where I am - also, none of the big boys stock them - are there many sizes available ? Where I've looked at led's - the bulbs are comparably priced with the dimmable cfl's, and the showrooms have them working on ordinary voltage dimmer circuits, when quite clearly on the box, it says they are not suitable for dimming. Do you have a take on this ? I think I'll be mixing them up, depending on usage - but am definitely into saving as much energy as I can.

Thanks a lot.