Maggie Thatcher Is Dead.

[pitrevie]

So Parliament was recalled for one day, the purpose being to honour Lady Thatcher and 150 Labour MP's decided to boycott the event - frankly, those 150 should be removed from office immediately for not having suffcient intellectual or emotional bandwidth and for not demonstrating adequate leadership for the rest of the country. I fear for the future of the UK.

Since they are Labour MPs and therefore hold no offices that would be somewhat difficult. I am sure if their constituents agree with you then they will get an opportunity to show it at the next election which is how the democratic process works.

[Morden]

Here's what Wikipedia says about her education. She won a scholarship both to secondary school and Oxford. Any working class kid could have done the same. so her family social status is irrelevant in this context.

Margaret Roberts attended Huntingtower Road Primary School and won a scholarship to Kesteven and Grantham Girls' School.^[6]
Her school reports showed hard work and continual improvement; her extracurricular activities included the piano, field hockey, poetry recitals, swimming and walking.^[7][8] She was head girl in 1942–43.^[9] In her upper sixth year she applied for a scholarship to study chemistry at Somerville College, Oxford, but she was initially rejected and was offered a place only after another candidate withdrew.^[10][11] She arrived at Oxford in 1943 and graduated in 1947 with Second-Class Honours in the four-year Chemistry Bachelor of Science degree; in her final year she specialised in X-ray crystallography under the supervision of Dorothy Hodgkin.^[12][13]

[Scott]

A lot of post have been deleted. This thread is about her death. Posters have posted their opinions on her life, but if you wish to have a discussion then I suggest you do so in a thread already dedicated to her policies:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/632380-lady-thatcher;-good-pm-or-bad/#entry6293247

[nontabury]

People keep mentioning the many street parties that have taken place to celebrate the death of MT, the places reported include Brixton,Bristol,Glasgow and IRA areas in Nth Ireland,possible a few other places as well. My question is,does anybody know how many people in total we talking about and what percent of the 63 million Brits are they.

[Rajab Al Zarahni]

A lot of post have been deleted. This thread is about her death. Posters have posted their opinions on her life, but if you wish to have a discussion then I suggest you do so in a thread already dedicated to her policies:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/632380-lady-thatcher;-good-pm-or-bad/#entry6293247

Her death is perhaps the best time to reflect on her life!

[Scott]

A lot of post have been deleted. This thread is about her death. Posters have posted their opinions on her life, but if you wish to have a discussion then I suggest you do so in a thread already dedicated to her policies:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/632380-lady-thatcher;-good-pm-or-bad/#entry6293247

Her death is perhaps the best time to reflect on her life!

And you can do so in the link that was started by 7by7

[Rajab Al Zarahni]

A lot of post have been deleted. This thread is about her death. Posters have posted their opinions on her life, but if you wish to have a discussion then I suggest you do so in a thread already dedicated to her policies:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/632380-lady-thatcher;-good-pm-or-bad/#entry6293247

Her death is perhaps the best time to reflect on her life!

And you can do so in the link that was started by 7by7

The link takes me too:"Sorry, we couldn't find that!"

[metisdead]

A lot of post have been deleted. This thread is about her death. Posters have posted their opinions on her life, but if you wish to have a discussion then I suggest you do so in a thread already dedicated to her policies:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/632380-lady-thatcher;-good-pm-or-bad/#entry6293247

Her death is perhaps the best time to reflect on her life!

And you can do so in the link that was started by 7by7

The link takes me too:"Sorry, we couldn't find that!"

You need 96 more posts before you can enter that zone, sorry!

[7by7]

People keep mentioning the many street parties that have taken place to celebrate the death of MT, the places reported include Brixton,Bristol,Glasgow and IRA areas in Nth Ireland,possible a few other places as well. My question is,does anybody know how many people in total we talking about and what percent of the 63 million Brits are they.

From what I have seen on the TV news, maybe 50 to 100 max at each; so an insignificant percentage of the overall population. Most of whom seem to be there just to get themselves on TV!

As said earlier, even her most implacable opponents have condemned these events.

It would be better if the media didn't show pictures, if not ignore them completely, so this tiny minority would not receive the attention they so obviously desperately crave.

Edited April 11, 2013 by 7by7

[7by7]

Well, as none of them appear to be 4 day old babies, it wouldn't have been after; would it!

[7by7]

Baroness Thatcher funeral invitation list released

Downing Street has released an
initial list of invitations to Baroness Thatcher's funeral next Wednesday.

All surviving US presidents and British prime ministers are on the guest
list, as well as a representative of the Reagan family.

Ronald Reagan's widow Nancy is understood to be too frail to travel.

Former Soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev will also not be attending owing to
health problems, his spokesman has said.

The guest list for the event was drawn up by Lady Thatcher's family with the
assistance of the government and the Conservative Party.

More than 2,000 invitations will be sent out, with most set to be dispatched
on Friday..............

[b19bry]

Those who venerate Margaret Thatcher most usually point to her role in rescuing the UK from the economic woes of the 1970s. But how bad was the economy in that decade? Many Western countries experienced the oil price shocks and periods of recession, but was Britain in a significantly worse position? I collected together a few links to articles with charts and commentary from the web. Probably what you make of the figures will depend on your prejudices, but at the very least they suggest a more mixed and nuanced picture of the 1970s than many posters are suggesting.

http://flipchartfairytales.wordpress.com/2012/04/30/were-the-1970s-really-that-bad/

http://econ.economicshelp.org/2010/02/economy-of-1970s.html

http://econ.economicshelp.org/2009/08/how-bad-was-1970s-economy.html

http://www.scribd.com/doc/97082412/The-Economy-of-Britain-in-1970s

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/datablog/2013/apr/08/britain-changed-margaret-thatcher-charts

(last one shows some 1970s/1980s comparisons)

I graduated in 1971 and for me these were good times. But after 1979 came the pain...

Lies, damned lies and statistics.

I don't see anything in these links that add any conviction to your premise.

How bad was the economy in that decade ? Well here is what the BBC (hardly a right wing puppet) had to say on it's website today:

"when Margaret Thatcher won power in May 1979,

it was against the backdrop of perhaps the gloomiest decade in modern

British history.

Shorn of its empire, Britain now cut a very miserable figure

on the world stage. For at least two decades we had been falling behind

our rivals, and now the contrast was painful to see.

Britain's average inflation rate for the 1970s was 13%. West

Germany's was just 5%. Our unemployment rate was 4%. Theirs was only 2%.

Our major cities seemed shabby and seedy, our newspapers were full of

strikes and walkouts, almost every week seemed to bring some new

atrocity in Northern Ireland.

Over the course of the 1970s, two Prime Ministers, Edward

Heath and James Callaghan, had been broken by the trade unions, while a

third, Harold Wilson, descended into paranoia. Foreign papers talked of

Britain as the Sick Man of Europe. Callaghan himself told his Labour

colleagues: "If I were a young man, I would emigrate.

You may not believe that Maggie 'saved' or turned the UK around but there are many of us who were there at the time and know she did.

[Bronzepickup]

How long is this topic going to run for?

She is dead.

Leave it to higher authorities. If she can make a case for her soul in front of them, good luck to her.

[cardholder]

How long is this topic going to run for?

She is dead.

Leave it to higher authorities. If she can make a case for her soul in front of them, good luck to her.

You remind me of someone, you really do.

I predict a relatively short TV future.

[Scott]

Off-topic posts and replies deleted.

[nong38]

I was looking at the Telegraph yesterday and was delighted to see a few comments from David Beckham was very respectful to the former PM and a longer piece from Bobby Charlton who thought football should mark her passing ( like this bit ) he thought she was "sensational" . No comment from Sir Alex!

Sensational will do for me.

Edited April 12, 2013 by nong38

[Simhne]

People keep mentioning the many street parties that have taken place to celebrate the death of MT, the places reported include Brixton,Bristol,Glasgow and IRA areas in Nth Ireland,possible a few other places as well. My question is,does anybody know how many people in total we talking about and what percent of the 63 million Brits are they.

From what I have seen on the TV news, maybe 50 to 100 max at each; so an insignificant percentage of the overall population. Most of whom seem to be there just to get themselves on TV!

As said earlier, even her most implacable opponents have condemned these events.

It would be better if the media didn't show pictures, if not ignore them completely, so this tiny minority would not receive the attention they so obviously desperately crave.

"The BBC is coming under increasing pressure to say whether it will play a song pushed into the charts by people celebrating the death of Margaret Thatcher.

Corporation bosses say they have not yet decided whether to play Ding Dong The Witch Is Dead if anti-Thatcher protesters manage to get the song into Sunday's singles chart." Huffington Post.

I know it may be difficult to accept for those wedded to the thatcherite view of chippy northern shirkers and resentful Wolfy Smith types, but enough people in blighty detest the woman's legacy enough to push this song to number 3 in the chart.

Glenda Jackson's contribution to the parliamentary proceedings is well worth a look on YouTube.

[Simhne]

Glenda's contribution;

Edited April 12, 2013 by Simhne

[7by7]

People keep mentioning the many street parties that have taken place to celebrate the death of MT, the places reported include Brixton,Bristol,Glasgow and IRA areas in Nth Ireland,possible a few other places as well. My question is,does anybody know how many people in total we talking about and what percent of the 63 million Brits are they.

From what I have seen on the TV news, maybe 50 to 100 max at each; so an insignificant percentage of the overall population. Most of whom seem to be there just to get themselves on TV!

As said earlier, even her most implacable opponents have condemned these events.

It would be better if the media didn't show pictures, if not ignore them completely, so this tiny minority would not receive the attention they so obviously desperately crave.

"The BBC is coming under increasing pressure to say whether it will play a song pushed into the charts by people celebrating the death of Margaret Thatcher.

Corporation bosses say they have not yet decided whether to play Ding Dong The Witch Is Dead if anti-Thatcher protesters manage to get the song into Sunday's singles chart." Huffington Post.

I know it may be difficult to accept for those wedded to the thatcherite view of chippy northern shirkers and resentful Wolfy Smith types, but enough people in blighty detest the woman's legacy enough to push this song to number 3 in the chart.

Glenda Jackson's contribution to the parliamentary proceedings is well worth a look on YouTube.

It doesn't take very many sales to get a single into the UK charts these days; even to number one; less than 100,000 will do it.

All it needs is an organised group repeatedly downloading it and it wont even cost them very much!

Not a large enough number to be significant; despite the publicity.

[citizen33]

How bad was the economy in that decade ? Well here is what the BBC (hardly a right wing puppet) had to say on it's website today

I see that somebody decided to delete a longer response I wrote to this. For those interested though the passage B19bry quotes is not from a BBC staffer but the historian Dominic Sandbrook. In fact his 2012 BBC 2 Programme 'The Seventies' (and related book) lends support to my claim that the decade of despair from which Maggie saved us wasn't as black as some say.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-17703483

Dominic seems to have changed his tune a bit amidst the hagiography.

[wigantojapan]

Glenda's contribution;

well said Glenda

[Thakkar]

The Telegraph have shut their comments sections to stop negative comments. Their reason? To be respectful. This is a ploy used by supporters and people who have benefited from her policies to ensure an untarnished legacy so that the policies embodied in that legacy can continue to benefit them.

Towering historical figures, be they Thatcher, Chavez (people—including the Economist newspaper—certainly danced on his grave) or the soon to depart Castro (you can be sure it'll be party time in large parts of Miami) cannot simply be allowed to Rest in Peace. This is especially so if they were people who have had a huge affect on society and, more importantly, are standard bearers and icons for economic, political and social ideas that affect the lives of countless millions over generations.

Those who would use Thatcher's formidable presence in the UK political landscape to spin her legacy, wrap themselves in her frock to push their own agenda are already hard at work while her body is still warm. All the while, as they publicly and disgustingly fap, fap fap to her corpse, they are collecting the political capital they will use for their own ends. This uncritical sycophancy cannot be allowed to stand. It cannot be allowed to become the unbridled historical record. Future generations (and for that matter current youth) when they search for 'Thatcher Obituary' need to see, along with images of elegant people in $5,000 suits singing her praises and lamenting her passing, also the images of ordinary people dancing in celebration in the streets. As a result, hopefully, they will then have reason to ask themselves why that is so.

Why do you think Cameron wants a state funeral for her? So that he may bask in her reflected glory for his own aggrandizement. It's a glory she does not deserve and must not be allowed to steal, even in death. Especially not in death, for that will entrench an undeserved sainthood.

When Reagan died, he was sainted, all his flaws and destructive policies forgotten. All criticism was cynically chased off as 'disrespectful.' Those who would rewrite history succeeded so spectacularly that today, even Democrats sing the praises of a man (along with Thatcher) whose administration created the conditions for today's worldwide economic woes. The millionaire inheritors of his policies dance with impunity on the wreckage of countless destroyed lives.

The same ploy was attempted with Nixon, the war criminal and initiator of the divisive 'Southern strategy' in American electoral politics—something for which America (and by extension, the rest of us) is paying even today with the politics of destruction and congressional gridlock. One would like to think that the failure to rehabilitate Nixon was because the American people thwarted the effort, but sadly American memories are too short for such endeavors. Rather, Nixon's acolytes failed, partly because Nixon had actively courted enemies among the media and partly because he didn't have the good sense to be born photogenic.

When I make disrespectful comments about Thatcher at this time, it isn't anything personal. Just as when she championed policies that destroyed lives, she wasn't being personally vindictive towards those people. My joking about her death is to prevent me from losing my sh!t as I remember the devastation she wrought and that her legacy continues to inflict. Her supporters can praise her all they want, but wherever I see it, I will not let it stand as the only record of her life.

To poster citizen33's's commendable numbers only approach (post #447), I'd like to add the following assessments:

Thatcher and the misapplied death etiquette

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/apr/08/margaret-thatcher-death-etiquette

Thatcher's gigantic Con

http://www.concertedaction.com/2013/04/08/margaret-thatchers-gigantic-con-trick/

Why Thatcher was bad for Britain

http://news.uk.msn.com/uk/margaret-thatcher-bad-for-britain-627184

...and for balance, balanced assessments, without the unseemly slobbering over:

Anatomy of Tatcherism

http://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/anatomy-of-thatcherism

Between Myth and Politics

http://inside.org.au/margaret-thatcher-between-myth-and-politics/

In the end, balance is all I want, not evisceration of a remarkable political life. However in the face of so much hagiography by the elite who, self-servingly, wish to perpetuate her elite-friendly policies, I'm on the side of evisceration—for the sake of balance.

T

[chiang mai]

The Telegraph have shut their comments sections to stop negative comments. Their reason? To be respectful. This is a ploy used by supporters and people who have benefited from her policies to ensure an untarnished legacy so that the policies embodied in that legacy can continue to benefit them.

T

No Thakkar, the reason is that they are being respectful, it's not a ploy it's the way normal sensible people behave in this type of situation.

[dutchrdam]

For we all start jump maybe it's a good idea to change the tittle from this topic.

The Lady who passed away, Margaret Thatcher and not Maggie Thatcher.

I don't believe in life after this, no rust in piece from me, but she was a remarkeble woman who left a foot print in the English political landscape. Thank you for that.

Regards

[Scott]

More off-topic posts and replies deleted.

[Thakkar]

One shouldn't speak ill of the dead, for they cannot defend themselves. I understand that. But Thatcher wrote a best-selling no-warts and all autobiography, and got paid for it! Her rich and powerful supporters—people her policies further enriched at the expense of the powerless—including people who own extensive media outlets are out there right now, every day with a well-funded army of writers at their disposal, burnishing her image, whitewashing every blemish and brainwashing the forgetful, the young and those yet to be born. This has to be resisted at the outset and at every turn, and in every minor forum to ensure the puff-filled lionizing and one-sided, misleading obituaries do not stand alone and unopposed. Her ideas must die with her lest carpetbaggers use those ideas to rob future generations.

When her husband, Dennis died, there was much undeserved praise for him, but it didn't bother me and I felt no urge to complain or chime in on the opposing side. On that occasion, I agreed: that to speak ill of the dead Dennis was petty, untoward, disrespectful. Baroness Margret Thatcher, former Prime Minister and standard-bearer for unrestrained Capitalism is a different kettle of fish altogether.

T

[7by7]

She got paid for her autobiography! Scandalous! (that it was a, as you say, best seller says much about her popularity!)

People she enriched at the expense of the powerless? She certainly didn't enrich the union robber barons, instead she put the power back where it belonged; the actual union members!

Criticising her and her policies is one thing, and the right to do so is one she would have staunchly defended (despite her 'denying terrorists the oxygen of publicity' [a huge mistake, in my opinion]) but holding street parties to celebrate her , or anyone else's, death is wrong.

Especially, as said earlier, those doing so were not even born when she came to power and have no idea of the state the country was in then.

I was, and I do. I am not alone in believing that despite mistakes along the way, she left the country in a far better state than that in which she found it.

And I am neither rich nor powerful; far from it!

[exeter]

Whoever is moderating on this I realize you have a tough call on what to allow and what not to as regards the topic, 507 is a case in point, you have removed some, you may not have allowed others, I dont know but this is make believe stuff that is extremely left wing and people will read it and believe it and who has checked it out of any of the 42 alleged statements? THis has do with her death, well its part of her history and cotribution but where do you draw the line? You need to be neutral or set the guidelines.

It is sad that the topic has gone this way but that the nature of things, bit like Marmite.

I do find this post very offensive and am surprised that no one has queried it, maybe they have how would we know?

Edited April 12, 2013 by exeter

[metisdead]

Whoever is moderating on this I realize you have a tough call on what to allow and what not to as regards the topic, 507 is a case in point, you have removed some, you may not have allowed others, I dont know but this is make believe stuff that is extremely left wing and people will read it and believe it and who has checked it out of any of the 42 alleged statements? THis has do with her death, well its part of her history and cotribution but where do you draw the line? You need to be neutral or set the guidelines.

It is sad that the topic has gone this way but that the nature of things, bit like Marmite.

I do find this post very offensive and am surprised that no one has queried it, maybe they have how would we know?

Please use the report button to report the offending post and it will be dealt with accordingly.

[lannarebirth]

The Telegraph have shut their comments sections to stop negative comments. Their reason? To be respectful. This is a ploy used by supporters and people who have benefited from her policies to ensure an untarnished legacy so that the policies embodied in that legacy can continue to benefit them.

Towering historical figures, be they Thatcher, Chavez (people—including the Economist newspaper—certainly danced on his grave) or the soon to depart Castro (you can be sure it'll be party time in large parts of Miami) cannot simply be allowed to Rest in Peace. This is especially so if they were people who have had a huge affect on society and, more importantly, are standard bearers and icons for economic, political and social ideas that affect the lives of countless millions over generations.

Those who would use Thatcher's formidable presence in the UK political landscape to spin her legacy, wrap themselves in her frock to push their own agenda are already hard at work while her body is still warm. All the while, as they publicly and disgustingly fap, fap fap to her corpse, they are collecting the political capital they will use for their own ends. This uncritical sycophancy cannot be allowed to stand. It cannot be allowed to become the unbridled historical record. Future generations (and for that matter current youth) when they search for 'Thatcher Obituary' need to see, along with images of elegant people in $5,000 suits singing her praises and lamenting her passing, also the images of ordinary people dancing in celebration in the streets. As a result, hopefully, they will then have reason to ask themselves why that is so.

Why do you think Cameron wants a state funeral for her? So that he may bask in her reflected glory for his own aggrandizement. It's a glory she does not deserve and must not be allowed to steal, even in death. Especially not in death, for that will entrench an undeserved sainthood.

When Reagan died, he was sainted, all his flaws and destructive policies forgotten. All criticism was cynically chased off as 'disrespectful.' Those who would rewrite history succeeded so spectacularly that today, even Democrats sing the praises of a man (along with Thatcher) whose administration created the conditions for today's worldwide economic woes. The millionaire inheritors of his policies dance with impunity on the wreckage of countless destroyed lives.

The same ploy was attempted with Nixon, the war criminal and initiator of the divisive 'Southern strategy' in American electoral politics—something for which America (and by extension, the rest of us) is paying even today with the politics of destruction and congressional gridlock. One would like to think that the failure to rehabilitate Nixon was because the American people thwarted the effort, but sadly American memories are too short for such endeavors. Rather, Nixon's acolytes failed, partly because Nixon had actively courted enemies among the media and partly because he didn't have the good sense to be born photogenic.

When I make disrespectful comments about Thatcher at this time, it isn't anything personal. Just as when she championed policies that destroyed lives, she wasn't being personally vindictive towards those people. My joking about her death is to prevent me from losing my sh!t as I remember the devastation she wrought and that her legacy continues to inflict. Her supporters can praise her all they want, but wherever I see it, I will not let it stand as the only record of her life.

To poster citizen33's's commendable numbers only approach (post #447), I'd like to add the following assessments:

Thatcher and the misapplied death etiquette

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/apr/08/margaret-thatcher-death-etiquette

Thatcher's gigantic Con

http://www.concertedaction.com/2013/04/08/margaret-thatchers-gigantic-con-trick/

Why Thatcher was bad for Britain

http://news.uk.msn.com/uk/margaret-thatcher-bad-for-britain-627184

...and for balance, balanced assessments, without the unseemly slobbering over:

Anatomy of Tatcherism

http://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/anatomy-of-thatcherism

Between Myth and Politics

http://inside.org.au/margaret-thatcher-between-myth-and-politics/

In the end, balance is all I want, not evisceration of a remarkable political life. However in the face of so much hagiography by the elite who, self-servingly, wish to perpetuate her elite-friendly policies, I'm on the side of evisceration—for the sake of balance.

T

Just for a little balance:

http://www.tradingeconomics.com/united-kingdom/disposable-personal-income